I agree. I haven't talked to anyone since MG's "departure," but what little I've listened to tells me they have no idea. I'm just not sure I want to go to all the trouble to point out additional flaws in their thinking. They thrive when they think they're in the throes of "persecution."
They thrive when they think they're in the throes of "persecution."
Ain't that the truth... Remembering back on my days in TWI, I think I felt the same..
Human nature I guess.. Pride.. Ego.. They are attacking our beliefs! How dare they! We're right, their wrong, defend - defend - defend.. Oh wait. The Word needs no defense, so umm.. Attack!
Anyways.. Yeah.. No sense in ruffling their pride, err I mean, feathers.
It is an immature kind of belief.. at least in my opinion. Seems most of us grew out of it.. maybe that's what's so bizarre. After all these years, they still have this level of immaturity..
kinda like an aged man going back to high school..
OK knowing my reputation for cynicism let me preface this post with the promise that the question I ask and the reasoning I use to come up with the question are genuine and not meant to derail, demean or in any other way devalue this thread.
Question: Why would I care what Jesus' birthday was?
Unless I was a Pharisee of the times perhaps and watching over the young lad to make sure he got his Bar Mitzvah on time, or some such other calendar driven event, his birth would seem to be pale in the face of his sacrifice and resurrection.
The birth was simply an entrance into the world - an unpleasant place at best; little noticed by contemporaries at that; and not noticed by the local powers (Rome & Jerusalem).
The death and resurrection was the culmination of Jesus' public and indisputable victory over evil and the promise to all mankind of their ultimate victory as well. Now those dates - heck yeah - those are worth remembering regularly. Hey Martha!!! Tomorrow we can party and celebrate how Jesus kicked Satan's azz right into the 16th sub-basement of the heavenly outhouses. Make sure you pick up some tequila and limes on the way home from work! Ohhh - I'm a month early?!?! So what let's celebrate the victory anyway!
Further, if I am going to watch dates, verify actual dates through several calendar changes etc, I got bad news for those congregational types. I am really going to celebrate Jesus' victory with some margueritas and some grilled steaks. No need for putting on a suit and tie and sitting in an uncomfortable chair while someone intones the same snot as last year. Let's party over his victory. Steaks this year! Seafood next year. None of that repetitive congregational snot.
Tzaia - don't you think that perhaps CES/STF are just avoiding making reference to a work that twi plagiarized and put out?
I keep saying that when you tout yourself as a "Biblical research ...." ministry, you set yourself up to always come up with some new thing. So... if they don't have anything new to say - well, then their lips are sealed.
No one gave a whoop at the time. TWI's making such a big deal out of when he was born took all the fun out of Christmas. At least STF doesn't make a big deal out of that like TWI did. It doesn't matter whether he was born in a house, inn, stable, or barn. It doesn't matter whether Mary had the help of a midwife or whether she and Joseph ended up being the only ones there. None of that makes a bit of difference. It's just one more thing to feel like there's a "one up" on orthodoxy.
There is "a" version of the Bible that uses house instead of inn. One uses "lodging," while another uses "living-space." Most people don't read any of those versions. The point is that no one gave up their bed and Mary didn't get any special treatment just because she was having a baby.
Tzaia - don't you think that perhaps CES/STF are just avoiding making reference to a work that twi plagiarized and put out?
I keep saying that when you tout yourself as a "Biblical research ...." ministry, you set yourself up to always come up with some new thing. So... if they don't have anything new to say - well, then their lips are sealed.
I don't know. I just thought it was ironic how so much emphasis was put on a single word that doesn't make a bit of difference in the outcome.
I don't know. I just thought it was ironic how so much emphasis was put on a single word that doesn't make a bit of difference in the outcome.
Precisely. One word that doesn't make a difference. (OH but it must! Or else I can't send you to the bank! a la pfal...)
It's straining at gnat pellets. All in the name of biblical accuracy - when in fact it's all about the amount of abs they can pry from some unsuspecting person who just needs to know.
And now I realized that I no longer care about stf/ ces or any of their lot.
I believe they think its a banquet they're putting on over there.. but its like putting on a "feast" of small rodent type of meat.. you need far more than one small rodent to make a meal for even one.. need at least a dozen to make a pan full..
I believe they think its a banquet they're putting on over there.. but its like putting on a "feast" of small rodent type of meat.. you need far more than one small rodent to make a meal for even one.. need at least a dozen to make a pan full..
I do not, for one minute, doubt their sincerity. I listened to the mp3 a couple of times and it seemed like JWS really wanted to make the birth event "special" in yet another way, which is kinda ironic in that TWI spent so much time debunking the 3 kings (magi, wise men) tradition, and the whole Christmas tradition in general.
Precisely. One word that doesn't make a difference. (OH but it must! Or else I can't send you to the bank! a la pfal...)
It's straining at gnat pellets. All in the name of biblical accuracy - when in fact it's all about the amount of abs they can pry from some unsuspecting person who just needs to know.
And now I realized that I no longer care about stf/ ces or any of their lot.
Why. . . . it is almost as if they have a morbid interest in controversial questions and disputes about words. :) Could be. . . . concerning the idea of financial partnership. . . . . . . in their greed they could exploit one with false words. . . . just a thought.
I'm with Rum. Let's just party over His victory. Of course, I could go for surf and turf every year. Porterhouse, ribeyes, NY strips, ribs, lobster, crab, oysters on the half shell, shwimps (not a typo)infinity choices every year.
Seems to be rehashed JC, Our Promised Seed which Schoenheit and John Crouch helped Walter Cummins in Research Department, with excerpts from the "collaterals"(Wierwille should have used the term "corallaries").
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cman
eh..when you don't know
make things up
dazzle them with how smart you think you are
reminds me of the way of course
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Ham
Maybe that's the best he can do..
or maybe he has a lot of time on his hands lately..
or both.. Yeah, I'd vote on both.
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sirguessalot
yeah...probably the best he can do
on a scale of 1 to 7...using a spectrum of faith development...i can't help but give the guy a 2.5
which seems around average for religious leaders today (i give vpw a 1.5)
i can only hope that perhaps our global collapse will stimulate some sort of development in our next generation of religious leaders
and maybe even lift the average to at least a 4 or 5...and get all the childlike adults out of positions of responsibility and authority
sad how it takes such desolation and loss to shake us out of such a rut
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cman
1 point for thinking different.
I'll give him that.
How a birth actually happens.
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Rejoice
I don't think they realize they are in a rut...
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Tzaia
I agree. I haven't talked to anyone since MG's "departure," but what little I've listened to tells me they have no idea. I'm just not sure I want to go to all the trouble to point out additional flaws in their thinking. They thrive when they think they're in the throes of "persecution."
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TrustAndObey
Ain't that the truth... Remembering back on my days in TWI, I think I felt the same..
Human nature I guess.. Pride.. Ego.. They are attacking our beliefs! How dare they! We're right, their wrong, defend - defend - defend.. Oh wait. The Word needs no defense, so umm.. Attack!
Anyways.. Yeah.. No sense in ruffling their pride, err I mean, feathers.
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Ham
It is an immature kind of belief.. at least in my opinion. Seems most of us grew out of it.. maybe that's what's so bizarre. After all these years, they still have this level of immaturity..
kinda like an aged man going back to high school..
maybe not then, but today I'd be embarrassed.
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RumRunner
OK knowing my reputation for cynicism let me preface this post with the promise that the question I ask and the reasoning I use to come up with the question are genuine and not meant to derail, demean or in any other way devalue this thread.
Question: Why would I care what Jesus' birthday was?
Unless I was a Pharisee of the times perhaps and watching over the young lad to make sure he got his Bar Mitzvah on time, or some such other calendar driven event, his birth would seem to be pale in the face of his sacrifice and resurrection.
The birth was simply an entrance into the world - an unpleasant place at best; little noticed by contemporaries at that; and not noticed by the local powers (Rome & Jerusalem).
The death and resurrection was the culmination of Jesus' public and indisputable victory over evil and the promise to all mankind of their ultimate victory as well. Now those dates - heck yeah - those are worth remembering regularly. Hey Martha!!! Tomorrow we can party and celebrate how Jesus kicked Satan's azz right into the 16th sub-basement of the heavenly outhouses. Make sure you pick up some tequila and limes on the way home from work! Ohhh - I'm a month early?!?! So what let's celebrate the victory anyway!
Further, if I am going to watch dates, verify actual dates through several calendar changes etc, I got bad news for those congregational types. I am really going to celebrate Jesus' victory with some margueritas and some grilled steaks. No need for putting on a suit and tie and sitting in an uncomfortable chair while someone intones the same snot as last year. Let's party over his victory. Steaks this year! Seafood next year. None of that repetitive congregational snot.
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Tzaia
I can hear the plaintive sigh and see the shaking of the head.
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doojable
Tzaia - don't you think that perhaps CES/STF are just avoiding making reference to a work that twi plagiarized and put out?
I keep saying that when you tout yourself as a "Biblical research ...." ministry, you set yourself up to always come up with some new thing. So... if they don't have anything new to say - well, then their lips are sealed.
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Tzaia
RumRunner,
No one gave a whoop at the time. TWI's making such a big deal out of when he was born took all the fun out of Christmas. At least STF doesn't make a big deal out of that like TWI did. It doesn't matter whether he was born in a house, inn, stable, or barn. It doesn't matter whether Mary had the help of a midwife or whether she and Joseph ended up being the only ones there. None of that makes a bit of difference. It's just one more thing to feel like there's a "one up" on orthodoxy.
There is "a" version of the Bible that uses house instead of inn. One uses "lodging," while another uses "living-space." Most people don't read any of those versions. The point is that no one gave up their bed and Mary didn't get any special treatment just because she was having a baby.
I don't know. I just thought it was ironic how so much emphasis was put on a single word that doesn't make a bit of difference in the outcome.
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doojable
Precisely. One word that doesn't make a difference. (OH but it must! Or else I can't send you to the bank! a la pfal...)
It's straining at gnat pellets. All in the name of biblical accuracy - when in fact it's all about the amount of abs they can pry from some unsuspecting person who just needs to know.
And now I realized that I no longer care about stf/ ces or any of their lot.
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Ham
I believe they think its a banquet they're putting on over there.. but its like putting on a "feast" of small rodent type of meat.. you need far more than one small rodent to make a meal for even one.. need at least a dozen to make a pan full..
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TrustAndObey
lol.... Good one..
Where's the beef?!
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Tzaia
I do not, for one minute, doubt their sincerity. I listened to the mp3 a couple of times and it seemed like JWS really wanted to make the birth event "special" in yet another way, which is kinda ironic in that TWI spent so much time debunking the 3 kings (magi, wise men) tradition, and the whole Christmas tradition in general.
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geisha779
Why. . . . it is almost as if they have a morbid interest in controversial questions and disputes about words. :) Could be. . . . concerning the idea of financial partnership. . . . . . . in their greed they could exploit one with false words. . . . just a thought.
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kimberly
I'm with Rum. Let's just party over His victory. Of course, I could go for surf and turf every year. Porterhouse, ribeyes, NY strips, ribs, lobster, crab, oysters on the half shell, shwimps (not a typo)infinity choices every year.
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Thomas Loy Bumgarner
Seems to be rehashed JC, Our Promised Seed which Schoenheit and John Crouch helped Walter Cummins in Research Department, with excerpts from the "collaterals"(Wierwille should have used the term "corallaries").
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