Hippocracy has never been one of my favorite things. Rather something I learned to despise from my youth. To say one thing and do another is totally off the mark. I know I've been guilty of it, but not because I deliberately tried.
I just read a few reviews of your book, Tazia, and it sounds good to me. I'm going to try to get it over this weekend and although discussing books is something I haven't done (in a good way) since school, I think I'd be interested in doing so with you.
The publisher's description of this book sounds very interesting.
I particularly like...
"Where personal daily interaction with God is more important than institutional church structures, where faith is more about a way of life than a belief system, where being authentically good is more important than being doctrinally right."
Tzaia, when I think of Christianity the religion I think of Jesus' words..."you draw nigh unto Me with your lips but your heart is far from Me." See, honey, even He lived with it. Don't let your colleagues cause you any fret. You go on loving and giving and thinking just that, as always, no matter what others may say or do.
I struggled for a while with the attending a church thing. I don't now. It doesn't happen. Don't see it happening. Maybe in August when Mars is suppose to be closet to earth than in an infinity it could happen. I don't need the "institutional church structure" to live and give love.
The last part of the publisher's description I found very interesting because it has been my experience in most "institutional church structures" that being "doctrinally right" IS being "authentically good."
I find myself drawn to Christians as friends and enjoy working with Christians in the workplace, but can't bring myself to belong to an organizational church structure. Maybe I will read your book suggestion, also.
Hippocracy has never been one of my favorite things. Rather something I learned to despise from my youth. To say one thing and do another is totally off the mark. I know I've been guilty of it, but not because I deliberately tried.
I just read a few reviews of your book, Tazia, and it sounds good to me. I'm going to try to get it over this weekend and although discussing books is something I haven't done (in a good way) since school, I think I'd be interested in doing so with you.
I have the book now......probably start serious reading tomorrow.
This is kind of my beginning of dialog on this subject. Maybe some of you have read the book, or would be interested in reading it and talking about it more.
Although I am not a big fan of the emergent church movement. . . and I am a little familiar with Mclaren's book series. . . . it is not really my thing. But. . . I just wanted to say what a really cool idea you have here. You could call it . . . . Tzaia's Book Club.
I will be interested in what you pick next. . . . maybe I could then join in. . . . I tired to read his Finding Faith?? maybe??. . . can't remember the name. . . but, I kept waiting for the point. . . . it was too frustrating for me. I am not a post-modern thinker. . . . can't get my head around it.
I just think this communal book reading is a great idea though and wanted to lend my words of support.
If I am recalling correctly, he also advocates "Open Theism" which can lead people to a smaller, meaner realization of the Supreme Deity.
The following is an excerpt from Wikipedia:
Brian McLaren's written and spoken words have come under scrutiny and subsequent criticism from figures both inside and out of the emerging church movement. Generally these criticisms claim that McLaren's theology provides no basis for doctrine and that without any basis, doctrine is abandoned in favor of "generosity" and "conversation." Conservative Emergents and Evangelicals have protested that McLaren's philosophical posture has led him to entertain and even embrace doctrinal positions that conservatives consider unorthodox. From the conservative wing of the emerging church movement Mark Driscoll has complained about McLaren's calling God a "chick," his advocacy of open theism, his downplaying of substitutionary atonement,[7] and his implicit denial of hell.[8] Evangelicals who have criticized McLaren include John MacArthur,[9] Albert Mohler,[10] Michael Horton,[11] Millard Erickson, Norman Geisler, Ray Comfort,and D.A. Carson.[12] Carson has been particularly vocal in his criticism of McLaren's doctrinal views, saying "as kindly but as forcefully as I can, that to my mind, if words mean anything, both McLaren and [steve] Chalke have largely abandoned the gospel" (D.A. Carson, Becoming Conversant with the Emerging Church, (2005), p.186).
I finished book 2 and started on book 3 - the book about "hell". Book 2 was ok. I might need to read it again to "get" it. Book 3 was revolutionary in how he believes Jesus deals with the subject of hell. Since I had done some research on various afterlife belief systems, his discussion of the history of afterlife beliefs was similar to my understanding.
Two major points - he believes in salvation by grace. He also believes in judgment based on "works". He believes judgment will not be about how well you worked the word, how right you had the doctrines, or even how much you "spread" the word, but how well you aligned your life to live according to Jesus' kingdom on earth message.
Carson has been particularly vocal in his criticism of McLaren's doctrinal views, saying "as kindly but as forcefully as I can, that to my mind, if words mean anything, both McLaren and [steve] Chalke have largely abandoned the gospel" (D.A. Carson, Becoming Conversant with the Emerging Church, (2005), p.186).
Perhaps the gospel as "we" have chosen to see it. As I stated in my beginning thesis, I was struggling with a Christianity that gives people permission to act exclusionary. Jesus embraced the people who were religious and societal outcasts to the disdain of those who weren't. He didn't align himself with any of the major or minor players of the day. He brought something radical which has since been turned into an exclusive club.
I don't ask that you take my word for it, or anyone else's for that matter. Read some of his stuff and make up your own mind.
I finished "Adventures in Missing the Point" and am now half way through "A Generous Orthodoxy".
Adventures in Missing the Point is written in a tag team style where two authors write about a subject under three major headings - God - World - Soul. Sometimes one fills in the gaps, or even disagrees. I moved through the book very quickly.
Honestly, I never got missionaries. I never liked cold-call witnessing. There is only so much self-congratulating (for being saved) one can do alone, or even within a group of like-minded people. This book has forced me to take a long, hard look at just exactly what have I done with my faith besides become adept at defending it.
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krys
Hippocracy has never been one of my favorite things. Rather something I learned to despise from my youth. To say one thing and do another is totally off the mark. I know I've been guilty of it, but not because I deliberately tried.
I just read a few reviews of your book, Tazia, and it sounds good to me. I'm going to try to get it over this weekend and although discussing books is something I haven't done (in a good way) since school, I think I'd be interested in doing so with you.
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kimberly
The publisher's description of this book sounds very interesting.
I particularly like...
"Where personal daily interaction with God is more important than institutional church structures, where faith is more about a way of life than a belief system, where being authentically good is more important than being doctrinally right."
Tzaia, when I think of Christianity the religion I think of Jesus' words..."you draw nigh unto Me with your lips but your heart is far from Me." See, honey, even He lived with it. Don't let your colleagues cause you any fret. You go on loving and giving and thinking just that, as always, no matter what others may say or do.
I struggled for a while with the attending a church thing. I don't now. It doesn't happen. Don't see it happening. Maybe in August when Mars is suppose to be closet to earth than in an infinity it could happen. I don't need the "institutional church structure" to live and give love.
The last part of the publisher's description I found very interesting because it has been my experience in most "institutional church structures" that being "doctrinally right" IS being "authentically good."
I am going to purchase this book, Tzaia.
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waterbuffalo
I find myself drawn to Christians as friends and enjoy working with Christians in the workplace, but can't bring myself to belong to an organizational church structure. Maybe I will read your book suggestion, also.
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krys
I have the book now......probably start serious reading tomorrow.
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geisha779
Although I am not a big fan of the emergent church movement. . . and I am a little familiar with Mclaren's book series. . . . it is not really my thing. But. . . I just wanted to say what a really cool idea you have here. You could call it . . . . Tzaia's Book Club.
I will be interested in what you pick next. . . . maybe I could then join in. . . . I tired to read his Finding Faith?? maybe??. . . can't remember the name. . . but, I kept waiting for the point. . . . it was too frustrating for me. I am not a post-modern thinker. . . . can't get my head around it.
I just think this communal book reading is a great idea though and wanted to lend my words of support.
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Tzaia
I like that, geisha. I don't think I'll ever do for an author what Oprah does, but who knows?
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Twinky
Tzaia, sounds like you are feeling the difference between Christianity the religion and Christianity the lifestyle.
Your former friend's lifestyle and behavior both past and present doesn't match the book.
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brideofjc
If I am recalling correctly, he also advocates "Open Theism" which can lead people to a smaller, meaner realization of the Supreme Deity.
The following is an excerpt from Wikipedia:
Brian McLaren's written and spoken words have come under scrutiny and subsequent criticism from figures both inside and out of the emerging church movement. Generally these criticisms claim that McLaren's theology provides no basis for doctrine and that without any basis, doctrine is abandoned in favor of "generosity" and "conversation." Conservative Emergents and Evangelicals have protested that McLaren's philosophical posture has led him to entertain and even embrace doctrinal positions that conservatives consider unorthodox. From the conservative wing of the emerging church movement Mark Driscoll has complained about McLaren's calling God a "chick," his advocacy of open theism, his downplaying of substitutionary atonement,[7] and his implicit denial of hell.[8] Evangelicals who have criticized McLaren include John MacArthur,[9] Albert Mohler,[10] Michael Horton,[11] Millard Erickson, Norman Geisler, Ray Comfort,and D.A. Carson.[12] Carson has been particularly vocal in his criticism of McLaren's doctrinal views, saying "as kindly but as forcefully as I can, that to my mind, if words mean anything, both McLaren and [steve] Chalke have largely abandoned the gospel" (D.A. Carson, Becoming Conversant with the Emerging Church, (2005), p.186).
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waysider
No surprise there, coming from a guy who thinks women should not hold leadership positions.
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Tzaia
I've read the criticism of McLaren's philosophy or theology (whatever you want to call it). He's not a Bible thumper - and I like that.
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Tzaia
"A New Kind of Christian" is the first of a trilogy. I'm now reading book 2: "The Story We Find Ourselves In".
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Tzaia
I finished book 2 and started on book 3 - the book about "hell". Book 2 was ok. I might need to read it again to "get" it. Book 3 was revolutionary in how he believes Jesus deals with the subject of hell. Since I had done some research on various afterlife belief systems, his discussion of the history of afterlife beliefs was similar to my understanding.
Two major points - he believes in salvation by grace. He also believes in judgment based on "works". He believes judgment will not be about how well you worked the word, how right you had the doctrines, or even how much you "spread" the word, but how well you aligned your life to live according to Jesus' kingdom on earth message.
Very interesting perspective.
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kimberly
Dang, Tazia, you go lovie, on book 3 already and I have not cracked the first page on book 1.
Your last paragraph has me even further intrigued about what this author has to say.
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Watered Garden
Driscoll criticized McLaren for language???
As Garth would say, "Pot, meet Kettle!" <_<
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Tzaia
Perhaps the gospel as "we" have chosen to see it. As I stated in my beginning thesis, I was struggling with a Christianity that gives people permission to act exclusionary. Jesus embraced the people who were religious and societal outcasts to the disdain of those who weren't. He didn't align himself with any of the major or minor players of the day. He brought something radical which has since been turned into an exclusive club.
I don't ask that you take my word for it, or anyone else's for that matter. Read some of his stuff and make up your own mind.
I'm now reading "A Generous Orthodoxy".
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Tzaia
I finished "Adventures in Missing the Point" and am now half way through "A Generous Orthodoxy".
Adventures in Missing the Point is written in a tag team style where two authors write about a subject under three major headings - God - World - Soul. Sometimes one fills in the gaps, or even disagrees. I moved through the book very quickly.
Honestly, I never got missionaries. I never liked cold-call witnessing. There is only so much self-congratulating (for being saved) one can do alone, or even within a group of like-minded people. This book has forced me to take a long, hard look at just exactly what have I done with my faith besides become adept at defending it.
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Watered Garden
And that's a good place to be.
WG
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Tzaia
Yup, it is.
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