Capital punishment

[Twinky]

Heer in the UK the trial has just concluded with the conviction of an ugly male who preyed on young girls. He was already serving life for murder of some other girls; yesterday he was convicted of murdering Millie Dowler, a young teenager (13 years old) who disappeared without trace and her remains were found 6 months later. It seems that the murderer has a penchant for young teenage girls (apparently known as hebephilia, which is nothing to do with liking Hebes, rather nice plants).

Joking aside, this man doesn't have a handle on reality, treats others with utter disdain, and has preyed on many young women, murdering some. The day before he snatched Millie, he tried to snatch another young teenager but luckily for her, she managed to get away. The evidence regarding Millie is circumstantial, but incontrovertibly against him.

He now has another whole-life tariff. He will never be released. And that's very good for all young teenage girls. It's good for society, that he is forever locked away. Is it good for him? He still denies it.

Should he be executed? We don't have capital punishment in the UK, so it's not an option. Right now, there aren't many people who would be sad if he were dead. As a kiddy-fiddler in prison, he might not last long anyway. Those men are kept in a separate prison or at least separate wing of a prison, for their own safety. Huh.

Levi Bellfield - serial predator

Millie Dowler - teenage victim

[Kit Sober]

The most unmentioned and the most horrendous capital punishment is against the poorest of the poor, those who have no voice, the unborn.

[soul searcher]

Okay, so -- not that it matters much -- but this crime happened on Father's Day not far from my house...

[/url]http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/24/nyregion/police-describe-wanton-violence-of-suspect-in-drug-store-killings.html

http://www.newsday.com/long-island/suffolk/laffer-s-wife-plan-was-to-only-threaten-not-kill-1.2981612

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_crime/2011/06/24/2011-06-24_melinda_brady_junkie_wife_of_accused_long_island_pharmacy_killer_david_laffer_pl.html?r=news

The evidence is a slam-dunk...it was caught on video.

The closest thing to a summary execution would be the best resolution, IMO. Those of you on Facebook might have seen my comment there which was, "this scumbag should fry for sure." I'm sorry, but that's exactly how I feel. Maybe God will try and change my mind about it but I'm not going to seek to change my own feelings about it. Cerrtain individuals simply need to be deleted from existence in this world.

It's not a vengeance thing. If it was, then I'd advocate for torture, but I don't. It's just that I never want to read, hear or see anything about the evil man ever again. If that makes me a hopeless sinner, then so be it. And if makes me sound like a jerk I'm sorry.

:(

[Twinky]

A different topic, Kit. Abortion. Perhaps a painful one, too, for some people here.

Soulie: not a nice couple. Druggies...how to deal with them...that's another topic, too.

So much interweaving on crime and punishment.

A quick end to things is good. Whatever that end is.

If the woman Melinda had had treatment for her addiction to prescription drugs, none of that crime incident would have happened.

Six lives needlessly damaged, snuffed out. Not to mention the families of each of those six.

Her choice to seek proper treatment, though.

[johniam]

If capital punishment is a violation of "vengeance is mine" then so is a speeding ticket. In the word, there is capital punishment, but the closest thing I can think of to life imprisonment is slavery, and a doulos was only forced into it for 6 years. Anybody here not glad Osama bin Laden is dead?

[waysider]

If capital punishment is a violation of "vengeance is mine" then so is a speeding ticket. In the word, there is capital punishment, but the closest thing I can think of to life imprisonment is slavery, and a doulos was only forced into it for 6 years. Anybody here not glad Osama bin Laden is dead?

These are all moot points.

A. No one said (or implied) that capital punishment is a violation of "vengeance is mine".

I simply posed a related, philosophical question, which you have subsequently morphed into this inaccurate extrapolation.

B. The issuance of a speeding ticket is not a usurption of God's authority nor does it have any bearing on the subject of capital punishment. I fail to see the correlation.

C. Why are you comparing the "slavery" of Biblical times with the "slavery" of modern times? They are two very different things. In fact, why compare life imprisonment with slavery at all?

D. How does the death of Bin Laden have anything at all to do with the topic of this thread?

That's a blatant attempt to create a straw man argument.

I know you have a great disdain for higher education but, maybe, you should at least consider taking some classes that will enhance your use of logic and debate skills.

[krys]

Okay, so -- not that it matters much -- but this crime happened on Father's Day not far from my house...

http://www.nytimes.c...e-killings.html

http://www.newsday.c...-kill-1.2981612

http://www.nydailyne..._pl.html?r=news

The evidence is a slam-dunk...it was caught on video.

The closest thing to a summary execution would be the best resolution, IMO. Those of you on Facebook might have seen my comment there which was, "this scumbag should fry for sure." I'm sorry, but that's exactly how I feel. Maybe God will try and change my mind about it but I'm not going to seek to change my own feelings about it. Cerrtain individuals simply need to be deleted from existence in this world.

It's not a vengeance thing. If it was, then I'd advocate for torture, but I don't. It's just that I never want to read, hear or see anything about the evil man ever again. If that makes me a hopeless sinner, then so be it. And if makes me sound like a jerk I'm sorry.

:(

I don't know what it is but something's going on in my old stomping ground. I grew up in Queens, but much of my younger life was spent on L.I. It seems that there is a very large problem with heroin among the high school population. It's been quite a number of years since I spent a whole lot of time there, but over the later years I had feelings almost like the walls closing in.

It's population is growing and the fact that it's an island means there's restricted places to spread out. If you're far enough out, such as the region around this area...to get off the Island takes hours just to get to the NYC before you can really start going anywhere.

[Ham]

Anybody here not glad Osama bin Laden is dead?

he was a living soul..

as bad as he was, with my feeble analysis of the situation I can't rejoice.

On one hand I can't excuse the horrific end of his plot.. on the other I can't rejoice in his death..

[Kit Sober]

he was a living soul..

as bad as he was, with my feeble analysis of the situation I can't rejoice.

On one hand I can't excuse the horrific end of his plot.. on the other I can't rejoice in his death..

I cannot rejoice in anyone's death. Don't know how. It's beyond me.

[Ham]

There are about what.. a few hundred thousand or more who will step up to fill the vacuum..

reminds me of an old science fiction series..

it takes prodigious aim to throw a knife into the breath hole in the back of the neck..

glorious? Now if one could just hit the same mark about ten million times more..

[Ham]

Yeah.. it was a Doctor Who episode..

Louise Jameson was the savage..

yeah. If you can hit the mark about 10 kazillion times, that would fix everything..

very, very interesting..

I love fiction.

:)

[Linda Z]

I think you have to look at this on a case-by-case basis.

There's a trial going on in my city right now involving a man who is accused of killing at least 11 women. Several bodies (one decapitated) were found in his house or buried in his yard. He lived alone. Numerous witnesses have testified that he lured them into his house with the promise of drugs then tried to or succeeded in raping them, but they managed to get away.

One such witness, who came to this man's house to score some of the promised drugs, said as she was escaping from the house, she passed a room draped in plastic, and behind the plastic was a headless body. Now, if that wouldn't scare a person straight, I don't know what would! She was sobbing on the witness stand as she gave her testimony. Who could blame her?

So my point (if I ever get to it) is, why on earth would we want to keep this man alive and pay for his upkeep for another 20 or 30 years (he's 51 now)? The guy is clearly a serial killer. He's not going to be rehabilitated in prison. I say give him the shot and be done with him.

This life isn't all there is. Let him make his peace with God, fall on his knees and beg God's forgiveness, but in this life, he has man's judgment coming, and I think the price that judgment carries should be death.

On the other hand, if the evidence in a case isn't so crystal clear as it is in this one, then I say the system should err on the side of mercy/caution rather than risk putting an innocent person to death.

[geisha779]

Anybody here not glad Osama bin Laden is dead?

I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn from their ways and live.

And to stay on topic.....I don't support capital punishment......not with the Judicial system we have......prison stats in this country should be a real eye-opener. One mistake, and we have had plenty, is one mistake too many in my opinion. Keeping an innocent person in jail is bad enough....putting an innocent person to death is a big oops!

[Ham]

So my point (if I ever get to it) is, why on earth would we want to keep this man alive and pay for his upkeep for another 20 or 30 years (he's 51 now)?

there is all kinds of nastiness to deal with..

I dunno. Maybe it's about humiliation. You can't humiliate one who who is dead, any longer, anyway..

death is an easy way out, for all parties involved..

[Ham]

Weird stuff. Take it as you will..

I remember some kind of agreement for this existence..

a couple of times (or more) I've taken this agreement, and told those whom I agreed with to go to hell..

you dumb "foot" bastards.. you have no clue of what kind of experience this existence involved..

so I was the numbnuts to take the dare..

friends? I don't think so..

I wish we were..

anybody else here talk to the "gods" like this?

to quote a damned republican dumbass.

If they can't help, tell them to stay out of the way..

Of course they won't, or can't help, for one reason or another..

It's only the second of July. Everybody is here, aren't they?

I mean, really..

Well.. happy July the fourth..

:)

[Linda Z]

Kit said:

I cannot rejoice in anyone's death. Don't know how. It's beyond me.

I can't either. Those "celebrations" held outside prisons when someone is executed disgust me. It confounds me how anyone could even think of participating in something like that.

Nevertheless, although I won't be jumping up and down with joy if the guy I mentioned earlier gets the death penalty and it is carried out, I can't say I'll shed a tear. I'm nore inclined to shed tears for the women he raped and killed and dismembered. I can't say I'll be sorry he's gone because his absence from this earth means he can never rape, kill, or decapitate another victim.

Regarding "vengeance is mine," whatever happens in eternity to murderers and child rapists and those who commit horrible crimes against others is between them and God Almighty. In this life, I think they should suffer the consequences of their heinous actions.

[Ham]

Does the sentence fit the crime? I won't argue otherwise..

The system is entirely unfair. These examples of horror.. they get what. Three square meals a day. Of course, the cuisine isn't exactly what it used to be.. budget cuts and all. Free (?) roof over one's head, as long as the lawyering and appeals hold out..

do they get cable tv and internet still?

what does it cost to house, clothe and feed them?

It just seem taxpayers money could go to far better uses..

speaking of rehabilitation.. what kind of job is waiting for them outside of the gates?

I mean.. consider they have years and years of somewhat of a life.. between appeals and all.. how is that supposed to be a deterrent to crime?

"Justice" is far too slow. But how fast do we want it..

we like a free society.. and the security that a dictatorship could provide, snuffing out alleged criminals with no right of appeal..

sorry. Just thinking here..