Will TWI ever come clean?

[skyrider]

Walking back thru a bit of history, one can pinpoint certain 'forks in the road' when TWI leadership could have admitted their shortcomings and errors in twi doctrine......AND pivoted toward the truth. Yet, sadly and deceptively......they obfuscated such responsibility before the Lord and covered their deeds in darkness.

Where could TWI have come clean?

1) By 1978, wierwille could have admitted that twi needed to break from centralized control and mogdom doctrine.

2) In 1982, martindale could have steered twi toward a "hq staff serve the people" and not people serving hq.

3) In 1985, geer should have had meetings with U.S. leadership --- rather than instigate a power-grab.

4) In 1986, martindale, geer, cummins, townsend and others should have come clean on 'adultery issues' in twi.

5) In 1986, trustees should have publically admitted wierwille's death was cancer and changed adv class teachings.

6) THEN.....(perhaps) dozens of splinter groups wouldn't have started their own versions of "we've got the true word."

Of course, all of this presupposes that wierwille's ministry had ANYTHING OF VALUE that could have been salvaged.

And, the more I objectively look at twi's doctrines, practices, policies and propaganda.......the more I clearly see

that wierwille NEVER LED BY EXAMPLE. Oh, sure.....he "taught" and critiqued and scrutinized others' research, but was

always searching that magical formula to razzle/dazzle a following. Even, in hindsight, the speaking in tongues/Pentecost

stuff seems little more than a climax crescenda of session 12. Did wierwille's "speaking in tongues like a house of fire"

dramatically change and alter HIS life? Nope.

For years, 1980-1987 (??).....The Way Credit Union loaned money to staffers, corps and qualified advanced class grads to

purchase mortgages. Yes, twi sanctioned that BUYING A HOME was a good investment! Year after year, many of those staffers,

that STILL work in lockstep to rosalie's policies, were 'in debt' to their monthly mortgages. All of this changed when

martindale sniffed out that times had changed and it was no longer spiritually viable to have 'a risky mortgage and be in debt

to the world.' Hmmmmm? Could it possibly be......that with more and more corps buying homes that it became IMPOSSIBLE to

re-assign corps to different locations year after year?

You see......as corps grew older and older, LIVING and HAVING CHILDREN got in the way of twi's corporate machine. The wierwille

model of bullying, exploiting, and manipulating people was screeching to a halt. And, twi was NOT going to change for nobody!

Conveniently, wierwille stepped down from presidency (1982) and soon died, as these challenges came rushing to the surface.

The corps were coming of age.........and NO AMOUNT OF BULLYING by martindale or geer was going to turn the tide.

Yet, twi just continued to double-down on their policies and legalism!

Why wouldn't TWI just come clean and resolve the lockstep mentality in twi? The Scriptures clearly show that every christian has

unique characteristics and responsibilities in which to serve. Why all the caste-system promoting of the corps program? Isn't

everyone, everywhere who wants to give and serve needful?

There are reasons why some 2,800 way corps have left twi......

There are reasons why some 475 way clergy have left twi.......

.

Edited October 2, 2012 by skyrider

[Steve Lortz]

It would have been hard for TWI to ever "come clean" since Wierwille and his cronies were never "clean" to begin with. There were a lot of good-hearted people sucked into the organization over time, but I doubt that the top leadership was ever good-hearted. The top leaders were like vampires, battening on the good-will and credibility of the people they fooled.

Love,

Steve

[OldSkool]

In a word, no.

[Jim]

Walking back thru a bit of history, one can pinpoint certain 'forks in the road' when TWI leadership could have admitted their shortcomings and errors in twi doctrine......AND pivoted toward the truth. Yet, sadly and deceptively......they obfuscated such responsibility before the Lord and covered their deeds in darkness.

Snip....

Of course, all of this presupposes that wierwille's ministry had ANYTHING OF VALUE that could have been salvaged.

And, the more I objectively look at twi's doctrines, practices, policies and propaganda.......the more I clearly see

that wierwille NEVER LED BY EXAMPLE. Oh, sure.....he "taught" and critiqued and scrutinized others' research, but was

always searching that magical formula to razzle/dazzle a following. Even, in hindsight, the speaking in tongues/Pentecost

stuff seems little more than a climax crescendo of session 12. Did wierwille's "speaking in tongues like a house of fire"

dramatically change and alter HIS life? Nope.

Snip....

Let me answer your question *cough* with a question.

Suppose VPW passed the mantle to Johnny Townsend instead of LCM. What difference would that have made? Sky, I know you were at HQ the same time as me. John was in charge of staff then and I watched him handle a couple of delicate issues with what I would call Christian wisdom. Before HQ, he was the California Limb leader and as far as I could tell, handled us reprobates quite well. I have heard the stories about how he went to the dark side after the power struggle. Nonetheless, with the JT I knew back then, I can imagine a reformed TWI with a strong code of ethics applicable to all leadership, more tolerance for respectful disagreement, and a more mellow acceptance of family and education.

Just saying...

[skyrider]

Let me answer your question *cough* with a question.

Suppose VPW passed the mantle to Johnny Townsend instead of LCM. What difference would that have made? Sky, I know you were at HQ the same time as me. John was in charge of staff then and I watched him handle a couple of delicate issues with what I would call Christian wisdom. Before HQ, he was the California Limb leader and as far as I could tell, handled us reprobates quite well. I have heard the stories about how he went to the dark side after the power struggle. Nonetheless, with the JT I knew back then, I can imagine a reformed TWI with a strong code of ethics applicable to all leadership, more tolerance for respectful disagreement, and a more mellow acceptance of family and education.

Just saying...

Jim.......the Johnny T. that I observed while at hq was not all that perceptive (code word -- spiritual).

Around 1982, he was given oversight of those corps meetings AFTER the sunday service teaching.....yeah, corps grads

were highly encouraged to join in with inrez corps around 7:30pm. Well, ole Johnny would rehash the sunday teaching

AGAIN and proceed to ramble and ramble and ramble.....until like 10:45pm. It didn't take long before corps grads, and

I was among them, just stopped going. There were enough of us that twi leadership never mounted a rebuttal.

Yep, Johnny T. just loved to heard himself talk.......and lost track of any perception of others.

And, being the all-involved type of guy I was......on two occasions, I ran across a Johnny T. that was boozed up.

His slurring of words gave us alot of laughter at the time, but quite unimpressive to say the least. Plus, he'd

walk the grounds with that big chunk of chew and spitting all the time......and trying to act like wierwille.

So......no, I wouldn't say that Johnny would have been a better pick. <_<

[excathedra]

Will TWI ever come clean?

oh maybe when rozzie and dozzie hang out their sheets

i sincerely apologize

i meant to say rosie and dosie

[OldSkool]

oh maybe when rozzie and dozzie hang out their sheets

[Rocky]

Walking back thru a bit of history, one can pinpoint certain 'forks in the road' when TWI leadership could have admitted their shortcomings and errors in twi doctrine......AND pivoted toward the truth. Yet, sadly and deceptively......they obfuscated such responsibility before the Lord and covered their deeds in darkness.

snip

...all of this presupposes that wierwille's ministry had ANYTHING OF VALUE that could have been salvaged.

Never forget what Yogi Berra said: "When you come to a fork in the road, take it."

Bottom line, as I see it, is the same as your bottom line on this. It all presupposes...

Frankly, however, I disagree on whether Wierwille led by example.

TWI became what he lived as that example, a corrupt ministry that used people for personal gain and sexual gratification.

[excathedra]

Frankly, however, I disagree on whether Wierwille led by example.

TWI became what he lived as that example, a corrupt ministry that used people for personal gain and sexual gratification.

very sad but makes sense to me in many ways

[skyrider]

Never forget what Yogi Berra said: "When you come to a fork in the road, take it."

Bottom line, as I see it, is the same as your bottom line on this. It all presupposes...

Frankly, however, I disagree on whether Wierwille led by example.

TWI became what he lived as that example, a corrupt ministry that used people for personal gain and sexual gratification.

Hmmmm?.......you do make a valid point there, Rocky.

Guess I should have been more specific

Wierwille never led AN UPRIGHT EXAMPLE.....you know, 20th century apostle paul stuff :B)

[waysider]

Wierwille never led AN UPRIGHT EXAMPLE.....you know, 20th century apostle paul stuff :B)

Oh, Lordy, here we go with Biblical comparisons again.

:biglaugh:

[Ham]

Suppose VPW passed the mantle to Johnny Townsend instead of LCM. What difference would that have made? Sky, I know you were at HQ the same time as me. John was in charge of staff then and I watched him handle a couple of delicate issues with what I would call Christian wisdom. Before HQ, he was the California Limb leader and as far as I could tell, handled us reprobates quite well. I have heard the stories about how he went to the dark side after the power struggle. Nonetheless, with the JT I knew back then, I can imagine a reformed TWI with a strong code of ethics applicable to all leadership, more tolerance for respectful disagreement, and a more mellow acceptance of family and education.

Townsend was the same guy who outlawed Bullinger Bibles in California.. wasn't he?

because of why? Bullinger offered intellectual, if not spiritual superiority to Da Vey International Doctrine?

i.e. he could not understand it, even after careful reading..

just an observation.

Never forget what Yogi Berra said: "When you come to a fork in the road, take it."

so I've left several spoons lying where they be. In the road..

sowy..