Wierwille wouldn't have known real leadership ability if it bit him on the arse. He, himself, was not a leader. He was an arrogant bully who acted like a spoiled brat when he didn't get his way.
Wierwille liked to tout how the Way Corps was supposed to be like military leadership training. I was a third class Petty Officer in the US Navy in the early '70s, and I qualified as an engineroom supervisor, which required the exercise of genuine leadership rather than formal leadership in order to perform.
Here is a quote from the chapter on leadership from "Military Requirements for Petty Officer 3 & 2", the fundamental training document we used:
"Just how do I go about being a good leader?
"You can start by forgetting the expression 'Leaders are born, not made." Many men seem to be natural leaders because of their magnetic personality or their inherent ability to learn rapidly, but these men are the exception rather than the rule. If the Navy had only to wait around for the 'born' leaders to show themselves, it wouldn't need a training program; it could obtain its leaders by selection. But the number of men obtained in this manner would never be sufficient for the job the Navy must perform. The Navy, therefore, must see to it that men are trained as leaders.
"Essentially, three elements constitute effective naval leadership:
1. Adherence to moral principles;
2. Good personal example; and
3. Administrative ability."
The rest of the chapter expands on those three ideas, in that order. The PRIMARY element of effective leadership is adherence to moral principles. The SECONDARY element is good personal example, and administrative ability is only TERTIARY!
Another statement early in the chapter is this: "...every man and woman in the Navy will themselves be examples of military ideals and ... personal attention and supervision will be given to subordinates."
When I was in WC training, I always took these things for granted, because I had learned them in the Navy. But looking back on the experience, the WC training was GROSSLY deficient in genuine leadership training...
Wierwille liked to tout how the Way Corps was supposed to be like military leadership training.
A claim lacking any substance.
vpw had no background in the military by ANYONE's definition.
He didn't serve, wasn't in the Guard, wasn't in the Reserves,
and was never ROTC. Anything he CLAIMED was about the military was
taken from the media. How'd you like someone's supposedly sufficient
understanding about your job or your hobbies to be based entirely
on movies?
I was a third class Petty Officer in the US Navy in the early '70s, and I qualified as an engineroom supervisor, which required the exercise of genuine leadership rather than formal leadership in order to perform.
Here is a quote from the chapter on leadership from "Military Requirements for Petty Officer 3 & 2", the fundamental training document we used:
"Just how do I go about being a good leader?
"You can start by forgetting the expression 'Leaders are born, not made." Many men seem to be natural leaders because of their magnetic personality or their inherent ability to learn rapidly, but these men are the exception rather than the rule. If the Navy had only to wait around for the 'born' leaders to show themselves, it wouldn't need a training program; it could obtain its leaders by selection. But the number of men obtained in this manner would never be sufficient for the job the Navy must perform. The Navy, therefore, must see to it that men are trained as leaders.
"Essentially, three elements constitute effective naval leadership:
1. Adherence to moral principles;
2. Good personal example; and
3. Administrative ability."
The rest of the chapter expands on those three ideas, in that order. The PRIMARY element of effective leadership is adherence to moral principles. The SECONDARY element is good personal example, and administrative ability is only TERTIARY!
Another statement early in the chapter is this: "...every man and woman in the Navy will themselves be examples of military ideals and ... personal attention and supervision will be given to subordinates."
When I was in WC training, I always took these things for granted, because I had learned them in the Navy. But looking back on the experience, the WC training was GROSSLY deficient in genuine leadership training...
Love,
Steve
There are lots of programs for leadership training.
A number are in the military in various branches.
A number are on college campuses.
A number are out in the world at large.
vpw skipped all of them- sounded like voluntary work
I also have a bachelor's degree in Organizational Leadership, and I have used these same quotes from PO 3&2 in a variety of papers I wrote while pursuing the degree...
People in business leadership ALSO have some strange ideas about military leadership.
The "programs" were like a boot camp that never ends. ("Do what we say, when we say, how we say, if we say.") At least the military has a vision for how they would like you to advance, once you've progressed past the initial indoctrination.
The corps were hammered, pressed, and molded into the shape that fit twi's purposes.
waysider:
The "programs" were like a boot camp that never ends. ("Do what we say, when we say, how we say, if we say.")
Then. they were held above the heads of the rest of us as examples that we should strive after. Whenever we took a mis-step or our footing slipped, we were subject to the same face melting they also learned "from the masters".
i never melted a face or anything like that. maybe that's why i couldn't get "ahead" or "ordained" lol plus i didn't "do" the MOGs and that was certainly a bad thing lol
i'm not saying i aspired to any of this at all
after we left staff (after graduation) and of course it was because we were shunned (but not marked or avoided yet - well maybe marked - but those terms were not in use)
after we left, we had a great time hanging out with people as in twig blah blah blah
and the people in the area were shocked because they heard we were so f'd up
sad too sad
that was back when i believe their horsesht about me and my ex
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waysider
Wierwille wouldn't have known real leadership ability if it bit him on the arse. He, himself, was not a leader. He was an arrogant bully who acted like a spoiled brat when he didn't get his way.
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Twinky
"The greatest leader is the greatest follower."
All that was required was to be a great follower of the teachings of VPW. Follow his teachings and his practices.
No independent thinking required. No other ability required.
Charisma, flair, being inspirational - don't need those. If you had anything like that to start with, it got edited out in WC training.
Thinking was required...thinking "the Word" - as laid out by VPW and other leadership.
Woe betide you if you dared to think otherwise - you weren't being a "follower."
You didn't miss anything worthwhile, Jim. You just missed a lot of messing about with your head.
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skyrider
Another one of wierwille's deceptions......instill the corps program as *leadership* training.
The number one requirement of a corps participant: FOLLOW.
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WordWolf
Jesus Christ: "The greatest leader will be a SERVANT."
vpw:"The greatest leader is the greatest FOLLOWER."
Small but critical distinction.
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Steve Lortz
Wierwille liked to tout how the Way Corps was supposed to be like military leadership training. I was a third class Petty Officer in the US Navy in the early '70s, and I qualified as an engineroom supervisor, which required the exercise of genuine leadership rather than formal leadership in order to perform.
Here is a quote from the chapter on leadership from "Military Requirements for Petty Officer 3 & 2", the fundamental training document we used:
"Just how do I go about being a good leader?
"You can start by forgetting the expression 'Leaders are born, not made." Many men seem to be natural leaders because of their magnetic personality or their inherent ability to learn rapidly, but these men are the exception rather than the rule. If the Navy had only to wait around for the 'born' leaders to show themselves, it wouldn't need a training program; it could obtain its leaders by selection. But the number of men obtained in this manner would never be sufficient for the job the Navy must perform. The Navy, therefore, must see to it that men are trained as leaders.
"Essentially, three elements constitute effective naval leadership:
1. Adherence to moral principles;
2. Good personal example; and
3. Administrative ability."
The rest of the chapter expands on those three ideas, in that order. The PRIMARY element of effective leadership is adherence to moral principles. The SECONDARY element is good personal example, and administrative ability is only TERTIARY!
Another statement early in the chapter is this: "...every man and woman in the Navy will themselves be examples of military ideals and ... personal attention and supervision will be given to subordinates."
When I was in WC training, I always took these things for granted, because I had learned them in the Navy. But looking back on the experience, the WC training was GROSSLY deficient in genuine leadership training...
Love,
Steve
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WordWolf
A claim lacking any substance.
vpw had no background in the military by ANYONE's definition.
He didn't serve, wasn't in the Guard, wasn't in the Reserves,
and was never ROTC. Anything he CLAIMED was about the military was
taken from the media. How'd you like someone's supposedly sufficient
understanding about your job or your hobbies to be based entirely
on movies?
There are lots of programs for leadership training.
A number are in the military in various branches.
A number are on college campuses.
A number are out in the world at large.
vpw skipped all of them- sounded like voluntary work
and that was against his moral code....
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excathedra
great points
i could go on and on all day and night
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Steve Lortz
I also have a bachelor's degree in Organizational Leadership, and I have used these same quotes from PO 3&2 in a variety of papers I wrote while pursuing the degree...
People in business leadership ALSO have some strange ideas about military leadership.
Love,
Steve
Edited by Steve LortzLink to comment
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skyrider
Behind signing on the dotted line....."Natural Leadership Ability" morphs into "Obey and Serve Malleability."
The corps were hammered, pressed, and molded into the shape that fit twi's purposes.
The "leadership" part was simply a vanity name tag.
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waysider
The "programs" were like a boot camp that never ends. ("Do what we say, when we say, how we say, if we say.") At least the military has a vision for how they would like you to advance, once you've progressed past the initial indoctrination.
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krys
skyrider:
waysider:
Then. they were held above the heads of the rest of us as examples that we should strive after. Whenever we took a mis-step or our footing slipped, we were subject to the same face melting they also learned "from the masters".
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excathedra
i never melted a face or anything like that. maybe that's why i couldn't get "ahead" or "ordained" lol plus i didn't "do" the MOGs and that was certainly a bad thing lol
i'm not saying i aspired to any of this at all
after we left staff (after graduation) and of course it was because we were shunned (but not marked or avoided yet - well maybe marked - but those terms were not in use)
after we left, we had a great time hanging out with people as in twig blah blah blah
and the people in the area were shocked because they heard we were so f'd up
sad too sad
that was back when i believe their horsesht about me and my ex
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