Undertow - Escaping from the Fundamentalism and Cult Control of The Way International

[Bolshevik]

2 hours ago, waysider said:

I don't think that's what I'm saying. But, ya know, sometimes, even though you might be holding the reins, the horse has a mind of his own.

I've reread what Penworks wrote again and again.  It sounds completely helpless.  Her insides were screaming to act and she refused to give herself authority in the situation.  VPW could have been a 6 year old making demands to his mother.  (I'm sure the story changes later)

 

*set hand on flat on desk . . . smashes it repeatedly with a hammer* . . . I had no choice.

[Nathan_Jr]

There is no emotion if one is truly paying attention to what actually is. One can't see clearly when one's attention is colored darkly by preference, prejudice, bias, reverence, hope.

When I sat through PFAL, I sat attentively, meekly, emotionless, without bias for or against, a real humble, meek attention with a clear mind to listen to what was being said, to observe what was actually going on.

When looking honestly, clearly, meekly at what is being said and written, and only endeavoring to examine, to go more deeply into it, without trying to MAKE it fit into anything at all, without prejudice, without NEEDING it to fit a presupposition, can one see what actually IS.

I have no theological, religious or "churchian" agenda or position to advance. I am not motivated to disprove a charlatan's words because of doxy. THEY LITERALLY DO THAT ALL BY THEMSELVES..

[Nathan_Jr]

35 minutes ago, Bolshevik said:

I've reread what Penworks wrote again and again.  It sounds completely helpless.  Her insides were screaming to act and she refused to give herself authority in the situation.  VPW could have been a 6 year old making demands to his mother.  (I'm sure the story changes later)

 

*set hand on flat on desk . . . smashes it repeatedly with a hammer* . . . I had no choice.

The NPD's victim refuses to act in defiance of the screaming voice within. Until, one day, finally, courageously... she sets the hammer down.

It is sinister and subtle and defies logic or reason. The self is destroyed. The voice within is trained to be mistrusted. Reality is no longer real.

[waysider]

1 hour ago, Mike said:

I chalk it up to just another way he was telling us that God was directly teaching him on how to fix the broken doctrine of churchianity.

In making this statement, you're affirming you believe his take on Adam and Eve to be accurate and that having VPW state  as much was God's way of fixing a "broken" church.

 

1 hour ago, Mike said:

It is from this solidity that I laugh at the flimsy weather report research done to try and debunk the details that were given on the 1942 promise.

The so-called flimsy weather report research you refer to came from official government weather reporting resources. You need look no further than this very website to find references. (Not that you ever would, but you could.)

[Bolshevik]

31 minutes ago, Nathan_Jr said:

The NPD's victim refuses to act in defiance of the screaming voice within. Until, one day, finally, courageously... she sets the hammer down.

It is sinister and subtle and defies logic or reason. The self is destroyed. The voice within is trained to be mistrusted. Reality is no longer real.

This is a self-harm.  Dissociation.  Simulacrity.  

They ate the fruit in defiance of the screaming voice.  In exchange for a new reality.  Where they could be gods.

Story old as time.

 

 

[Nathan_Jr]

Mike said about vpw, “…just another way he was telling us God was directly teaching him…”

 

There’s your sign. Every time. The one claiming to speak for God, the one claiming to have the truth, is surely the one who does not.

But you will know them by their fruit.

 

OOOPS!

I didn’t see you over there, Joseph Smith… all apologies!

uh-oh… Jim Jones? Is that really you?… oh, no…

Joseph Smith? How did you get in here?

…I’m so embarrassed! I didn’t see you guys, either, David Koresh, Benny Hinn, Kenneth Copeland…

L. Ron Hubbard!!! WTH! …with a mouthful of crow, I extend my most sincere apologies. 

 

Edited July 3, 2023 by Nathan_Jr
Gloves

[Nathan_Jr]

13 minutes ago, Bolshevik said:

This is a self-harm.  Dissociation.  Simulacrity.  

They ate the fruit in defiance of the screaming voice.  In exchange for a new reality.  Where they could be gods.

Story old as time.

 

 

Indeed. It’s what we do, until we wake up. 

[Mike]

32 minutes ago, waysider said:

...came from official [1942] government weather reporting resources...

That's one of the reasons I used the word flimsy.

 

[Nathan_Jr]

There are so many organizations, entities, and scientists collaborating on the reporting and collecting of climate data. A few clicks around NOAA.gov shows this.

Private enterprises in media and transportation have their own interests in collecting and reporting weather data. Sometimes, these private companies are owned by people empirically and spiritually stupid enough to beleeeve flat earth and four crucified.

No, not one, organization, private or public, with vested interest in collecting and reporting accurate climate data acknowledges snow in July or September in Tulsa, Chicago or Ohio. In fact, they report the opposite, accurately.

This is well established, empirically and spiritually. The second time established it.

Edited July 3, 2023 by Nathan_Jr
Gloves

[waysider]

1 hour ago, Mike said:

That's one of the reasons I used the word flimsy.

 

You misquoted me.

[Mike]

37 minutes ago, Nathan_Jr said:

There are so many organizations, entities, and scientists collaborating on the reporting and collecting of climate data. A few clicks around NOAA.gov shows this. ... Private enterprises in media and transportation have their own interests in collecting and reporting weather data.

 

You missed my reference to 1942.  Add to it rural Ohio where you can see the weather coming 100 miles away.

Other flimsy data includes the words from VPW while he was driving Elena Whiteside around the county (WLIL) , and another while he was teaching a Sunday service (Light Began to Dawn).  Hardly what I would call a time when he was concentrating carefully on gatting dates and places in his distant past 100% accurate. 

I know I can't get my past real accurate without graph paper, a pencil, a good eraser, and a few weeks to pinpoint things.

Then there is the issue of rogue snow storms that last a few minutes and only cover a football field at most, and we have had first-hand solid data reported here about this.

I laugh at the flimsy efforts here to undo the earth shaking God did with PFAL starting in 1942.

 

 

[Bolshevik]

1 hour ago, Nathan_Jr said:

Indeed. It’s what we do, until we wake up. 

Well see there is no "other side of the story".  If we pretend there is we continue the fantasy world.

[Bolshevik]

1 hour ago, Nathan_Jr said:

Indeed. It’s what we do, until we wake up. 

Hence, there is no "other side of the story".  Just a retelling of the fantasy.  

 

[Nathan_Jr]

9 minutes ago, Bolshevik said:

Well see there is no "other side of the story".  If we pretend there is we continue the fantasy world.

There is only one story. It may be told differently by different people with different perspectives or different agendas.

[waysider]

1 hour ago, Mike said:

You missed my reference to 1942. 

1 hour ago, Mike said:

 

Other flimsy data includes the words from VPW while he was driving Elena Whiteside around the county (WLIL) , and another while he was teaching a Sunday service (Light Began to Dawn).  Hardly what I would call a time when he was concentrating carefully on gatting dates and places in his distant past 100% accurate. 

I know I can't get my past real accurate without graph paper, a pencil, a good eraser, and a few weeks to pinpoint things.

Then there is the issue of rogue snow storms that last a few minutes and only cover a football field at most, and we have had first-hand solid data reported here about this.

I laugh at the flimsy efforts here to undo the earth shaking God did with PFAL starting in 1942.

Credible agencies have compiled detailed, documented information to help us better understand previous meteorological events and anticipate how the present conditions might affect future climatological patterns. Is this what you mean by flimsy?

 

"Add to it rural Ohio where you can see the weather coming 100 miles away."

I have lived and worked in rural Ohio and NO, you can't "see weather coming" 100 miles away. I, myself, have been caught in no less than 2 horrific weather events that no one saw coming.

"Then there is the issue of rogue snow storms that last a few minutes and only cover a football field at most, and we have had first-hand solid data reported here about this."

citation needed

 

"You missed my reference to 1942."

You only referenced 1942 when you misquoted me. Please don't misquote me in an effort to diminish what I said.

 

"I  laugh at the flimsy efforts here to undo the earth shaking God did with PFAL starting in 1942."

Earth shaking, you say? Yeah I get a chuckle out of that myself. (Obviously not for the same reason as you.)

 

Edited July 3, 2023 by waysider

[Nathan_Jr]

The formal, systematic collection of climatic data began in earnest in the U.S. in the mid 19th century. Citizens of Ohio have always played an important role in this history. Climate observers, data collectors and climatic information communicators of Ohio were among the advanced in the field. There is a rich history of charting weather in Ohio - 1942 is ignored by no one.

Speaking of rural farmers. Besides the elderly everywhere, who talks about and tracks weather more attentively than farmers? I suspect no one.

People do, indeed, report rogue storms. A blizzard in rural Ohio on a warm, blue sky, sunshiny day? Rural farmers who are especially attentive to variables affecting their lives, like weather, would notice even a football field size blizzard, whether or not they could see weather coming from 100 miles away.

Then there is the issue of hearing an audible voice from God. The details of such an event are not trivial. This is a life-changing event. There is life before the voice and life after. That's it. That is all.

Who, having had such an experience, could forget the details, as if it were his son's girlfriend's birthday? Who, having had such a cosmically profound experience, would attempt to recount it to some casually-familiar broad he was trying to impress? Who, having had such an experience, would recount it to a group of people, knowing he was being recorded, and risk an offer of unsolicited details?

A liar, that's who.

The conviction is in the details. Bull$hitters and deceivers know this. But the details are how they all get caught.

 

People who have had profound, spiritual experiences, awakenings, enlightened transformations of consciousness, don't treat their experiences so flippantly. They are very careful about telling it, if they ever tell it at all. People who have had these experiences don't use them as leverage to bolster credibility. They don't need to impress anyone.

It is humbling. It is unspeakable. It is beyond beleeef.

Edited July 3, 2023 by Nathan_Jr
Gloves. Always gloves.

[Mike]

40 minutes ago, Nathan_Jr said:

 

Rogue snow storms in rural areas can come and go in minutes and cover small patches of land much less than a city block.  Weather stations, especially in rural Ohio in 1942 were no where near able to sample large swaths of land like radar can now. 

Most rogue snow storms are not witnessed by anyone to report them in rural areas.  In 1942, to whom would such a report be made?  Remember they had no Internet then, and long distance phone calls were very prohibitive. 

Several times here a poster (I forget his name), who is sympathetic to most of the Greasespot conversations, somewhat reluctantly reported on seeing 2 such rogue snow storms in his time near HQ.    I have quoted his report several times over 15 years here.  No one pays attention or remembers because if does not fit in with the anti-idol hate program.

I could find the name of this poster, but I know it will not influence a single synapse in your thinking to see it again.

 

Edited July 3, 2023 by Mike

[waysider]

1 minute ago, Mike said:

Rogue snow storms in rural areas can come and go in minutes and cover small patches of land much less than a city block.  Weather stations, especially in rural Ohio in 1942 were no where near able to sample large swaths of land like radar can now. 

Most rogue snow storms are not witnessed by anyone to report them in rural areas.  In 1942, to who would such a report be made.  Remember they had no Internet then and long distance phone calls were very prohibitive. 

Several times here a poster (I forget his name), who is sympathetic to most of the Greasespot conversations, somewhat reluctantly reported on seeing 2 such rogue snow storms in his time near HQ.    I have quoted his report several times over 15 years here.  No one pays attention or remembers because if does not fit in with the anti-idol hate program.

I could find the name of this poster, but I know it will not influence a single synapse in your thinking to see it again.

 

This is not a citation.

[Mike]

Just now, waysider said:

This is not a citation.

It is a fact.

 

[waysider]

4 minutes ago, Mike said:

It is a fact.

 

You know what else is a fact? In 2008, a hurricane hit Cincinnati. Would you be inclined to believe that without a citation?

[Bolshevik]

7 minutes ago, waysider said:

You know what else is a fact? In 2008, a hurricane hit Cincinnati. Would you be inclined to believe that without a citation?

I saw one those Way Tree stickers with an open Bible on top on a vehicle driving through Cincy yesterday.

Not relevant to the discussion, but if someone in a black pickup felt that got the evil eye, that was me.

[Nathan_Jr]

22 minutes ago, Mike said:

Rogue snow storms in rural areas can come and go in minutes and cover small patches of land much less than a city block.

They can? I thought it was a football field. On a cloudless, warn, sunshiny day? Gotcha.

 

24 minutes ago, Mike said:

Weather stations, especially in rural Ohio in 1942 were no where near able to sample large swaths of land like radar can now. 

So what? 

 

24 minutes ago, Mike said:

Most rogue snow storms are not witnessed by anyone to report them in rural areas. 

How would you know anything about something that you admit is not witnessed by anyone? No one is a witness to MOST rogue snowstorms? Which ones are they? The ones nobody saw?

Most unicorn farts aren't witnessed by anyone in rural areas, either. Most unicorns live in rural areas, but no one has ever seen them. That's how we know.

 

28 minutes ago, Mike said:

In 1942, to whom would such a report be made?  Remember they had no Internet then, and long distance phone calls were very prohibitive. 

The telegraph company. The newspaper. Anyone. It was a blackout event. People would notice. There would be gossip.

 

30 minutes ago, Mike said:

Several times here a poster (I forget his name), who is sympathetic to most of the Greasespot conversations, somewhat reluctantly reported on seeing 2 such rogue snow storms in his time near HQ.    I have quoted his report several times over 15 years here.  No one pays attention or remembers because if does not fit in with the anti-idol hate program.

Is that what he reported? People never make claims or reports, unless they are true.

Well, except Ralph D. and the reports about his dad's linguistic credentials and SIT. Everyone else makes accurate, truthful claims. Ralph D. is the only exception.

And women. They are all liars, too, right?

If it doesn't fit, you must acquit!

 

38 minutes ago, Mike said:

I could find the name of this poster, but I know it will not influence a single synapse in your thinking to see it again.

One guy on an internet message board makes a claim? Hmmmm... ok, so?

Ralphy made claims. Women open their mouths to speak.

 

[Nathan_Jr]

I'm open to the possibility of rogue snow storms. I'm even open to the possibility that victtor saw a rogue snow storm the size of a city block, or a football field, or a unicorn corral.

I'll grant you that. It's possible.

But the probability is near zero, because he proved to be without integrity or credibility in everything. He was a liar. That's what he did. He lied. And when he wasn't lying, he was bull$hitting, he was making stuff up. That's what he did.

That he heard an audible voice from God? I've already addressed this, as have others.

[Bolshevik]

So Reason is more important than Emotion then?

[Bolshevik]

Still not sure "victim" is the right word.  VPW all alone does not make a cult.

 

https://images.app.goo.gl/DnWkMG8T8QbsyoZZ7