As a serial killer and mass murderer, Jack The Ripper is a far more interesting personality disorder than this run-of-the-mill psychopath. Glad he's gone. Sad We The People wasted so many millions of dollars on this lowlife pond scum creep. Sometimes capital punishment just seems sooo right, no?
Interesting, I'd never read much about this. Didn't realise that the gang was mostly women.
In the UK, these women (and the male gang member) would probably have been allowed out on licence long ago. (Parolees are, of course, supervised, and can be recalled at any time and for any - or no - reason.) I'd think, with careful psych treatment, they could have been returned to society and got on with life, at least to some extent. With their cult leader out of the way, they could have resumed "normal" brain function.
As for Manson himself, he seems to have been such a degenerate person that no matter where he was, he ought to have been locked up forever - as indeed he was. A horrible start to life, apparently, but did nothing to redeem himself or improve his life chances. What a waste.
As a serial killer and mass murderer, Jack The Ripper is a far more interesting personality disorder than this run-of-the-mill psychopath. Glad he's gone. Sad We The People wasted so many millions of dollars on this lowlife pond scum creep. Sometimes capital punishment just seems sooo right, no?
Generally speaking, imposing the death penalty is far more expensive. The requirements for the carrying out thereof are extensive and expensive.
In the UK, these women (and the male gang member) would probably have been allowed out on licence long ago. (Parolees are, of course, supervised, and can be recalled at any time and for any - or no - reason.) I'd think, with careful psych treatment, they could have been returned to society and got on with life, at least to some extent. With their cult leader out of the way, they could have resumed "normal" brain function.
As apparently was the case with Linda Kasabian, who testified against Manson.
I did actually pose the question as a serious one.
Twinky, I know you posed it as a serious question, but I am not going to lose any sleep over Manson's death. He was 83, and a blight on society; I wish he had never been born. I can't remember the exact number of people, he and his followers killed in the Summer of 69. I think it may have been 8 or 9(?). And those people died horrible, grisly deaths. I can't think of anyone who will cry over his death; he was an evil man, who died of natural causes.
As a serial killer and mass murderer, Jack The Ripper is a far more interesting personality disorder than this run-of-the-mill psychopath. Glad he's gone. Sad We The People wasted so many millions of dollars on this lowlife pond scum creep. Sometimes capital punishment just seems sooo right, no?
DWBH, bingo!!!! Manson really was scrum; I wish he had gotten "the chair." I don't think capital punishment is right in all circumstances, but I think it would have been right in his case. God, I hope I can live to be 83, and then die in my sleep.
Interesting, I'd never read much about this. Didn't realise that the gang was mostly women.
In the UK, these women (and the male gang member) would probably have been allowed out on licence long ago. (Parolees are, of course, supervised, and can be recalled at any time and for any - or no - reason.) I'd think, with careful psych treatment, they could have been returned to society and got on with life, at least to some extent. With their cult leader out of the way, they could have resumed "normal" brain function.
As for Manson himself, he seems to have been such a degenerate person that no matter where he was, he ought to have been locked up forever - as indeed he was. A horrible start to life, apparently, but did nothing to redeem himself or improve his life chances. What a waste.
Twinky, the book " Helter Skelter" is about Charles Manson, and it is a good read. However, it is not for people with a weak stomach; it was quite graphic about the 69 murders.
So this infamous cult leader has finally died, in prison. No loss to society.
Any thoughts, anyone?
What happened to his followers? Were any imprisoned? Released? Gone on to be helpful, or horrible, members of society?
Twinky, I know one of the women died of Cancer, a few years ago. Another woman was finally released after spending almost 48(?) years in prison. I have read a few books about Manson, and his followers; what a sick guy!!
Leslie Van Houten: She is up for parole consideration today. My gosh she was only 19 when she got drawn into the cult of Manson, and is 69 yrs old today. She was a young kid who stupidly followed orders [and yes two people died], but she has paid with her life and freedom all these years. I wonder what would become of her if she was released? How would she survive? No friends [or family?] on the outside.
US prison sentences are obscenely long, well, the whole prison system really, but let's not go there in this discussion.
At the age of 69, to be released would be almost, if not more, horrendous for her than imprisoning her in the first place. She has no-one of her own age (at least, not "straight" people, probably knows plenty of ex-cons), no place to go, probably very little support (genuine support, not a probation service), not that much knowledge of how the world "works" to be able to fit into it; and who knows what illnesses she may have acquired in prison - mental or physical.
Limited options available, of which two are homelessness and living on the street; and committing further crimes (theft, robbery) to meet whatever physical/food needs she has. It would be small wonder if (if released) she didn't commit further crimes so as to get returned to prison, the environment she knows.
US prison sentences are obscenely long, well, the whole prison system really, but let's not go there in this discussion.
At the age of 69, to be released would be almost, if not more, horrendous for her than imprisoning her in the first place. She has no-one of her own age (at least, not "straight" people, probably knows plenty of ex-cons), no place to go, probably very little support (genuine support, not a probation service), not that much knowledge of how the world "works" to be able to fit into it; and who knows what illnesses she may have acquired in prison - mental or physical.
Limited options available, of which two are homelessness and living on the street; and committing further crimes (theft, robbery) to meet whatever physical/food needs she has. It would be small wonder if (if released) she didn't commit further crimes so as to get returned to prison, the environment she knows.
Stephen King has written stories about that kind of thing.
Unfortunately all too true. In my voluntary work with homeless and vulnerable people, I've found two main reasons for homelessness. The main one is relationship breakdown; the second is coming out of prison. There may be an interrelationship, but we don't usually ask why they went to prison in the first place, though in some cases it's because of violence, quite possibly towards their partner or wider family. Younger homeless people might be there because of family breakdown. Then they might turn to drugs to fund their unhappy lifestyle and they get a free bed and board at public expense. When people are released, the problems that put them in prison in the first place haven't been magically healed but rather are considerably exacerbated, not to mention the arrested emotional development that most ex-prisoners sustain.
I suppose it all comes down to relationship breakdown really. I don't know why Manson committed his crimes, what his background was. I don't know why the young women joined him as partners in crime. I don't know why Leslie VH's background made her vulnerable to joining his murderous bunch. His little cult. Why she let him twist her mind to commit heinous crimes.
I do know why some of us joined a cult, how unhappy at home relationships some of us were, what family stresses there were, and what life was life for some people. We too let our minds be re-formed, and then did utterly reprehensible things and also treated non-cult people heinously. For many of us, post-leaving has been/was difficult and it was hard to recover. For some of those in long-term - what do they do but go off and start another cult, seeking the life that they knew before. Keep themselves safe in the prison of their mind.
Relationships. Relationships: build good strong relationships. Help your kids, grandkids, and those around you to build decent relationships. Befriend the vulnerable and help them back into relationship with society.
Okay. Lesson for the day over. Bit early in the morning (before 10am) to be pondering such deep thoughts. I will wake up properly in about half an hour. Now, where's the caffeine? (= me with morning tea)
Unfortunately all too true. In my voluntary work with homeless and vulnerable people, I've found two main reasons for homelessness. The main one is relationship breakdown; the second is coming out of prison. There may be an interrelationship, but we don't usually ask why they went to prison in the first place, though in some cases it's because of violence, quite possibly towards their partner or wider family. Younger homeless people might be there because of family breakdown. Then they might turn to drugs to fund their unhappy lifestyle and they get a free bed and board at public expense. When people are released, the problems that put them in prison in the first place haven't been magically healed but rather are considerably exacerbated, not to mention the arrested emotional development that most ex-prisoners sustain.
I suppose it all comes down to relationship breakdown really. I don't know why Manson committed his crimes, what his background was. I don't know why the young women joined him as partners in crime. I don't know why Leslie VH's background made her vulnerable to joining his murderous bunch. His little cult. Why she let him twist her mind to commit heinous crimes.
I do know why some of us joined a cult, how unhappy at home relationships some of us were, what family stresses there were, and what life was life for some people. We too let our minds be re-formed, and then did utterly reprehensible things and also treated non-cult people heinously. For many of us, post-leaving has been/was difficult and it was hard to recover. For some of those in long-term - what do they do but go off and start another cult, seeking the life that they knew before. Keep themselves safe in the prison of their mind.
Relationships. Relationships: build good strong relationships. Help your kids, grandkids, and those around you to build decent relationships. Befriend the vulnerable and help them back into relationship with society.
Okay. Lesson for the day over. Bit early in the morning (before 10am) to be pondering such deep thoughts. I will wake up properly in about half an hour. Now, where's the caffeine? (= me with morning tea)
Twinky; excellent insight! Manson was a discarded child...spent most of his childhood in juvenile detention and foster care I think from the age of about 11. No family and no love. Notice how he called his followers his family? He probably developed schizophrenia from terrible early, emotional traumas; a broken soul. No idea why any of his followers were mesmerized by him. I think a few of them actually came from good upbringings.
For me, I was raised in a very loving home with good friends and support. I felt a hollowness with formal religions and TWI offered something I had never heard previously...to build a personal relationship and knowledge of God the creator. And I could help others who felt that void. That was it...plain and simple. I went on the WOW field with that starry-eyed goal, and have maintained some of those friendships from the 70's. Went in Family Corps...but could see that things were glaringly hollow and problematic, and the control over every little thing was choking us. Even though I gave 18 years of my life believing what they taught, I had no problem leaving it all behind once made up my mind to go. I only heard the uglies when WayDale surfaced. It and The Cafe explained the explainable.
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DontWorryBeHappy
I heard they all took some Bible class in 1970 and now run some cult in OH some where. One of them is Roy Moore's Campaign Chairman!
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T-Bone
Wish somebody would drain that swamp !
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Twinky
I did actually pose the question as a serious one.
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HAPe4me
A number of them were arrested. Some are still in prison and some have died in prison.
https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/11/20/us/what-ever-happened-to-the-manson-family.amp.html
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Rocky
It's about time!
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DontWorryBeHappy
As a serial killer and mass murderer, Jack The Ripper is a far more interesting personality disorder than this run-of-the-mill psychopath. Glad he's gone. Sad We The People wasted so many millions of dollars on this lowlife pond scum creep. Sometimes capital punishment just seems sooo right, no?
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Twinky
Interesting, I'd never read much about this. Didn't realise that the gang was mostly women.
In the UK, these women (and the male gang member) would probably have been allowed out on licence long ago. (Parolees are, of course, supervised, and can be recalled at any time and for any - or no - reason.) I'd think, with careful psych treatment, they could have been returned to society and got on with life, at least to some extent. With their cult leader out of the way, they could have resumed "normal" brain function.
As for Manson himself, he seems to have been such a degenerate person that no matter where he was, he ought to have been locked up forever - as indeed he was. A horrible start to life, apparently, but did nothing to redeem himself or improve his life chances. What a waste.
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Rocky
Generally speaking, imposing the death penalty is far more expensive. The requirements for the carrying out thereof are extensive and expensive.
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Rocky
As apparently was the case with Linda Kasabian, who testified against Manson.
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Grace Valerie Claire
DWBH- I heard the same thing!! LMAO!!
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Grace Valerie Claire
Twinky, I know you posed it as a serious question, but I am not going to lose any sleep over Manson's death. He was 83, and a blight on society; I wish he had never been born. I can't remember the exact number of people, he and his followers killed in the Summer of 69. I think it may have been 8 or 9(?). And those people died horrible, grisly deaths. I can't think of anyone who will cry over his death; he was an evil man, who died of natural causes.
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Grace Valerie Claire
DWBH, bingo!!!! Manson really was scrum; I wish he had gotten "the chair." I don't think capital punishment is right in all circumstances, but I think it would have been right in his case. God, I hope I can live to be 83, and then die in my sleep.
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Grace Valerie Claire
Twinky, the book " Helter Skelter" is about Charles Manson, and it is a good read. However, it is not for people with a weak stomach; it was quite graphic about the 69 murders.
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Grace Valerie Claire
Rocky, good points!!
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Grace Valerie Claire
Rocky, if IRC, she fled California after the trial.
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Rocky
That's correct, as mentioned in the NYTimes link HAPe4me posted above.
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Grace Valerie Claire
DWBH, LMAO!!
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Grace Valerie Claire
Twinky, I know one of the women died of Cancer, a few years ago. Another woman was finally released after spending almost 48(?) years in prison. I have read a few books about Manson, and his followers; what a sick guy!!
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Rejoice
Leslie Van Houten: She is up for parole consideration today. My gosh she was only 19 when she got drawn into the cult of Manson, and is 69 yrs old today. She was a young kid who stupidly followed orders [and yes two people died], but she has paid with her life and freedom all these years. I wonder what would become of her if she was released? How would she survive? No friends [or family?] on the outside.
https://www.foxnews.com/us/court-wonders-if-it-can-rule-on-manson-followers-parole
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Twinky
US prison sentences are obscenely long, well, the whole prison system really, but let's not go there in this discussion.
At the age of 69, to be released would be almost, if not more, horrendous for her than imprisoning her in the first place. She has no-one of her own age (at least, not "straight" people, probably knows plenty of ex-cons), no place to go, probably very little support (genuine support, not a probation service), not that much knowledge of how the world "works" to be able to fit into it; and who knows what illnesses she may have acquired in prison - mental or physical.
Limited options available, of which two are homelessness and living on the street; and committing further crimes (theft, robbery) to meet whatever physical/food needs she has. It would be small wonder if (if released) she didn't commit further crimes so as to get returned to prison, the environment she knows.
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Rocky
Stephen King has written stories about that kind of thing.
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Twinky
Unfortunately all too true. In my voluntary work with homeless and vulnerable people, I've found two main reasons for homelessness. The main one is relationship breakdown; the second is coming out of prison. There may be an interrelationship, but we don't usually ask why they went to prison in the first place, though in some cases it's because of violence, quite possibly towards their partner or wider family. Younger homeless people might be there because of family breakdown. Then they might turn to drugs to fund their unhappy lifestyle and they get a free bed and board at public expense. When people are released, the problems that put them in prison in the first place haven't been magically healed but rather are considerably exacerbated, not to mention the arrested emotional development that most ex-prisoners sustain.
I suppose it all comes down to relationship breakdown really. I don't know why Manson committed his crimes, what his background was. I don't know why the young women joined him as partners in crime. I don't know why Leslie VH's background made her vulnerable to joining his murderous bunch. His little cult. Why she let him twist her mind to commit heinous crimes.
I do know why some of us joined a cult, how unhappy at home relationships some of us were, what family stresses there were, and what life was life for some people. We too let our minds be re-formed, and then did utterly reprehensible things and also treated non-cult people heinously. For many of us, post-leaving has been/was difficult and it was hard to recover. For some of those in long-term - what do they do but go off and start another cult, seeking the life that they knew before. Keep themselves safe in the prison of their mind.
Relationships. Relationships: build good strong relationships. Help your kids, grandkids, and those around you to build decent relationships. Befriend the vulnerable and help them back into relationship with society.
Okay. Lesson for the day over. Bit early in the morning (before 10am) to be pondering such deep thoughts. I will wake up properly in about half an hour. Now, where's the caffeine? (= me with morning tea)
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Grace Valerie Claire
Twinky, excellent post!!
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Rejoice
Twinky; excellent insight! Manson was a discarded child...spent most of his childhood in juvenile detention and foster care I think from the age of about 11. No family and no love. Notice how he called his followers his family? He probably developed schizophrenia from terrible early, emotional traumas; a broken soul. No idea why any of his followers were mesmerized by him. I think a few of them actually came from good upbringings.
For me, I was raised in a very loving home with good friends and support. I felt a hollowness with formal religions and TWI offered something I had never heard previously...to build a personal relationship and knowledge of God the creator. And I could help others who felt that void. That was it...plain and simple. I went on the WOW field with that starry-eyed goal, and have maintained some of those friendships from the 70's. Went in Family Corps...but could see that things were glaringly hollow and problematic, and the control over every little thing was choking us. Even though I gave 18 years of my life believing what they taught, I had no problem leaving it all behind once made up my mind to go. I only heard the uglies when WayDale surfaced. It and The Cafe explained the explainable.
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