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jim jack

John Alexander Dowie

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Has anyone here ever followed or explored the exploits of this man? He was a huge factor in the Life of John G Lake who was part of so many healing miracles in the early part of the 20th century.

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On ‎2‎/‎5‎/‎2019 at 4:31 AM, jim jack said:

Has anyone here ever followed or explored the exploits of this man? He was a huge factor in the Life of John G Lake who was part of so many healing miracles in the early part of the 20th century.

So... why all the concern and so much focus on healing, or "healing miracles"?  Have you ever stopped yourself, and very carefully (and honestly) thought that question through?

Given the nature and tone of so many of your postings here, I doubt it.  Maybe you haven't (or can't) because it's simply beyond your own knowledge and understanding of various signs and miracles that are recorded in the scriptures.   But, rather than rain too much or too hard on your parade here... maybe I better just leave it at that.   And if you can eventually figure it out, then great.  But if not... well, it'll all wash out in the end.  So what if healings and miracles make a few things in this (temporal) life easier and/or more pleasant.  If that's all what it's about... why be so impressed by it?  Who or what does it draw attention to?

However, I'll leave you with these few little thoughts.  THIS life (in the flesh, that we have now) was really never intended to be "forever." And if you believe that, then is it so difficult to also believe that maybe... just maybe... all that really matters is how anything and everything in this life might or can (and does) best prepare us for our (eternal) life that is yet to come?  Israel (the best of the best of all humanity) experienced more (genuine) signs, miracles, and wonders than you can shake a stick at.  Yet, think carefully what it did (moreover, what it didn't) do for them, on a lasting (or eternal) basis.  And we're not talking about fake stuff or quackery.  Those were "the real deal." Yet, in the much larger and broader scope of things, seems it didn't much matter.  And God Almighty knows that, too. 

 

 

Edited by TLC

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I think a discussion of "why healings and miracles" and/or why not could make for an interesting discussion in Doctrinal.   (That's no guarantee it WOULD, but it might make for one.)

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1 hour ago, WordWolf said:

I think a discussion of "why healings and miracles" and/or why not could make for an interesting discussion in Doctrinal.   (That's no guarantee it WOULD, but it might make for one.)

Agreed... though I've already tipped my hand as to my perspective on the matter.  Feel free to have my previous post moved to doctrinal if there is any continued discussion or interest in doing so. 

Edited by TLC

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TLC...good question...I'd answer in this manner...Jesus said" the things that I do, ye shall do also & greater" some would respond.."well that was/is Jesus" who do you think YOU are anyway". I've been enthralled by several really descent teachings on this subject...not entirely on healing..but healing tends to follow alot of other subjects that I've studied....like renewing one's mind and our identity in Christ. I'm not absorbed by it,..but I do enjoy ministering to people & love to watch how they respond when their bodies do change for the better...wayfers were taught about "signs & wonders follow those who believe..." if one doesn't believe..I don't think much in the physical rehlm will show up or change..most only hope but won't  learn a few principles that might be life changing...but  when we do step out in faith,,,,,great things potentially can & many times do happen.

John G Lake had constant invalids in his family including himself...Dowie according to Lake showed him where he was missing it & from that point on..got totally delivered & practice it on others..so yeh I'm interested  as I do my best to help people & many times offering healing really makes a difference..especially if they've been tormented many many years.. Faith w/out works is dead..we learn & don't  do anything but KNOW what is taught.I think the aim of education IS action..so in being a doer of the word & not a hearer only deceiving myself is one of my many daily goals..so that I won't be deceiving myself.

 

thanks for the question as its a good un..LOL

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1 hour ago, jim jack said:

Jesus said" the things that I do, ye shall do also & greater"

Do you understand that His ministry was to Israel (not to the Gentiles) and that those words were spoken to those (of Israel) that were with him that day?  see Matt. 10:5; Rom. 15:8.

1 hour ago, jim jack said:

wayfers were taught about "signs & wonders follow those who believe..."

Aside from Mark 16:17 (which, once again, appears to be specifically given only to Israel), what scriptural references or basis, if any, might you have for that being suitable or applicable to the church of the body that Paul ushered in? Just because that was said or taught in twi doesn't make or mean it's true. 

1 hour ago, jim jack said:

Faith w/out works is dead..

So says... James? Ah, ha.  Another of the Israelites, and a rather obvious adherent to the law.  Faith without works is dead, is it?

Why adulterate or otherwise (in any way) frustrate the grace of God?  It's clearly and plainly written that faith is counted for righteousness (Rom. 4:5), and no where in the church epistles does it require some sort of activation or proof or validation by "works" in order for it to be genuine and real.

Perhaps you think that little statement from James and the Pauline doctrines of grace are symbiotic, and can peacefully cohabit the same space in your mind.  Well, they aren't... and they don't.  Though they may not be diametrically opposed, fight against each other they will, and do.  And unless (and/or until) you grasp and understand that subtle difference between the two, I suspect it would be (probably is) virtually impossible not to boast a little (in one way or another) of whatever works result from your own (or anyone else's) believing.  Or, on the other hand,  pass a bit of judgment and/or reproof (i.e., condemnation) upon oneself (or others) when "it ain't there."  

Maybe you've never seen or heard of anyone (or yourself) give witness to or carry on about what a great job (or great failure) of believing happened or took place somewhere.  But, I doubt that too, if you really want to be honest about it.  Yeah, take the blame for it yourself when it fails... but at least "mouth" the praises to God when it does works.  Think you do one half of that only, but not the other? Really?  So easy it is to pretend, and deceive ourselves.     

 

 

 

Edited by TLC

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well...let me know where it does end up k?? as I'm never too sure where & what category to put things in...so thank you for getting it right for the others as well who may have an interest

 

TLC..So what you're saying is that Israel who Jesus had obviously "come for" & not the gentiles ..are the only ones that can operate one of the nine manifestations in l Co 12 (Miracles)? If wso ..when I daily operate tongues..it them must be counterfiet, as I'm a gentile (non Jew)

 

John G Lake and all the Wigglesworths/Kulmans/Todd White/Dan Mohler and all the others..... must be Judeans to be privy to this OR is God NOT a respector of persons and all may freely partake of these nine manifestations..

 

I think God's viewpoint of this is for all those who believe on Jesus can walk in the fullness of what he says is available & obviously we can choose not to and just remain doubtful & never see the results if we HAD reached out in love for the sake of the other..this is really all about truly loving our neighbor..a person with illness..tormented by disease and such is not what God wants for them, as Jesus came to set the captives free & we're the ones here to minister NOW with his power doing the work..we're the "conduit" of God's power into the sick & infirm.

Maybe this doesn't sound like tWI teaching to you & I'm saying it isn't..they "initiated it" back 40 years ago & from this other ministry..I've learned much & seen it up close..deliverances left & right just as the Bibles prophesises in the latter times..go on youtube..look up divine healing..you'll see many street healers who lay hands on the sick & they video their recoveries..(for our edification) This is exciting & we were introduced to this but seldom saw the actual happening of it while in TWI (at least I know I didn't & most others I personally know of didn't either) Do you ever recall any teaching from VP of having gone out & offer healing & he give a teaching about it/? NO never...just the man with the withered arm in PFAL..I think thats all I ever heard about..none other..ever ever..LOL..thanks for your honesty in demanding to know where I stand in all this. I apppreciate it.

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It is clear that this  thread has become more oriented to the Doctrinal forum so consider it moved.

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On 2/16/2019 at 8:43 AM, jim jack said:

TLC..So what you're saying is that Israel who Jesus had obviously "come for" & not the gentiles ..are the only ones that can operate one of the nine manifestations in l Co 12 (Miracles)?

Evidently you're still having difficulty making any sort of distinction between the gospel of the Kingdom, which Jesus and the 12 preached, and the gospel of grace, which Paul taught.

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the good news of the kingdom is that Jesus came to set the captives free...how is this different from what Paul preached in the epistles?

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