I realize you know this, but you wouldn't today BE the man you are without having lived through twi's cultishness.
You today, no longer in your youth, have insight from the experience... so you can share that experience and help many keep from taking the same path.
Of course, you are right in your assessment of my whimsical statement.
In those transitional years from my youth to adulthood (and sound judgment).... it has given me a deep understanding of how people are manipulated and exploited. And, like you Rocky, I have given hundreds and hundreds of hours to post here at GSC and help dismantle their authoritarian rule. Brick by brick, we are making headway.
I realize you know this, but you wouldn't today BE the man you are without having lived through twi's cultishness.
You today, no longer in your youth, have insight from the experience... so you can share that experience and help many keep from taking the same path.
Rocky..... to add further to your statement, I wouldn't today BE the man I am without doing the arduous task of mining out the gold understanding of how the twi-cult deceived its followers. Nor would any of us who've stayed committed to unearthing these nuggets of wisdom and understanding here at GSC. While scores of thousands who exited this cult and, seemingly cared not a whit of how this deception happened, we are not counted among them. We've pressed onward to gain a full accounting of twi's history and its seduction so that we don't fall prey to another cult or organization.
Like many of you, the faithful who continue to sound the alarm..... I have been OUT of twi longer than I was in. And, during these past 25 years..... especially when Waydale was launched in April 1999, these years of open discussion and disclosure of twi-experiences [Waydale & GSC], we are surrounded by a wealth of experiences and eye-witnesses. Thank you all. Thank you Paw.
Unto whom much is given.... much is required. In my estimation, the faithful posters here at GSC have given back more than was required.
Piecing together and coming to grips with my past is part of my own personal spiritual journey with my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
To do so has required the hard work of breaking down the doctrinal and practical error in following scripture.
I actually feel a lot more comfortable in my Christian faith than I ever did while in TWI.
While some may temporarily benefit from their classes with an increased focus on scripture and study, the deceit in the package and how it is laid out form a very compelling trap that few escape from unscathed.
Small inconsistencies in scripture and in commentary by Christian preachers is magnified to create a wormhole in the body of Christ that suck the naieve in and consume decades of their lives in a time warp.
Steer clear of the snake oil salesmen who have dedicated their lives to this fundamentalist separatist cult and choose interaction with more profitable members of the body of Christ.
Rocky..... to add further to your statement, I wouldn't today BE the man I am without doing the arduous task of mining out the gold understanding of how the twi-cult deceived its followers. Nor would any of us who've stayed committed to unearthing these nuggets of wisdom and understanding here at GSC. While scores of thousands who exited this cult and, seemingly cared not a whit of how this deception happened, we are not counted among them. We've pressed onward to gain a full accounting of twi's history and its seduction so that we don't fall prey to another cult or organization.
Half the battle in pulling together a creatively successful true-crime documentary is, surely, finding the right story — one that can hold our interest and can, potentially, generate insights beyond the simple facts of the case. But the other half, the filmmaker’s approach, matters every bit as much. In narrating the famous tale of a bizarre ring of extortion that bloomed at Sarah Lawrence College in the early 2010s, “Stolen Youth” director Zach Heinzerling certainly has his subject. But with a startling rawness and directness, Heinzerling’s work makes a case for itself as an unusually sensitive and strong outing in its genre.
Those familiar with the case of Larry Ray, a parent of a Sarah Lawrence student who moved into his daughter’s housing at the Bronxville, N.Y., liberal arts college, may have learned about it from coverage in New York Magazine, which ran a lengthy feature on the story in 2019. One of that story’s co-authors tells Heinzerling’s cameras that reporting on Ray was surprisingly easy: “Everyone in his life is a player in this game, and he needs an audience.” As applied to a circle of unformed young people curious about the grown-up in their midst, the game Ray plays is one of domination, brainwashing them into needing his approval.
Rocky..... to add further to your statement, I wouldn't today BE the man I am without doing the arduous task of mining out the gold understanding of how the twi-cult deceived its followers. Nor would any of us who've stayed committed to unearthing these nuggets of wisdom and understanding here at GSC. While scores of thousands who exited this cult and, seemingly cared not a whit of how this deception happened, we are not counted among them. We've pressed onward to gain a full accounting of twi's history and its seduction so that we don't fall prey to another cult or organization.
Like many of you, the faithful who continue to sound the alarm..... I have been OUT of twi longer than I was in. And, during these past 25 years..... especially when Waydale was launched in April 1999, these years of open discussion and disclosure of twi-experiences [Waydale & GSC], we are surrounded by a wealth of experiences and eye-witnesses. Thank you all. Thank you Paw.
Unto whom much is given.... much is required. In my estimation, the faithful posters here at GSC have given back more than was required.
Peace.
Many who left the cult went on to start other variations on the VPW idolatry by setting up splinter organizations that still magnify PFAL and Wierwille.
These groups are no less culty than the original, even if they are pushing for some kind of TWI reform which will never happen because the leaders love their power and status more than truth.
What they need to do is come to grips with the isolationist separatist doctrine that they cling to that causes them to be blind to other Christians in a genuine fellowship sense.
They need to get some kind of spray to get rid of the “household of God” cult separatist focus.
The whole package like the Great Principle and all the lies in the “collaterals” most specifically are the most damaging. It is kind of like they accuse Joel Olsteen as “Christianity lite”. Well Joel is a spiritual heavy compared to the horse puckey swallowed down like a pill by all the VPW worshippers in splinters.
Get rid of the huckster in your life and develop a true Christian relationship with Jesus Christ.
Many who left the cult went on to start other variations on the VPW idolatry by setting up splinter organizations that still magnify PFAL and Wierwille.
These groups are no less culty than the original, even if they are pushing for some kind of TWI reform which will never happen because the leaders love their power and status more than truth.
What they need to do is come to grips with the isolationist separatist doctrine that they cling to that causes them to be blind to other Christians in a genuine fellowship sense.
.....
In my opinion..... those splinter groups that CONTINUE to teach the wierwille doctrine of Fundamentalism and Cult Control are worse than twi's institutional dogma BECAUSE these splinter guys portray themselves as groundbreaking revivalists and restorers of the faith that is in Christ Jesus. When, in reality, they simply got frustrated with Rosalie (or LCM) and took their shingle across the street, changed their business name, and set up shop. Then proceeded to inculcate the same material with slightly tweaked loaded language.
It's so damn obvious what they're doing.... tired of playing second fiddle, these splinter guys bolted when they saw "a future without being subservient to twi's board of directors more advantageous that rowing the mothership-cult along." Add, gaining the podium spotlight and access to the abs-money as incentives too good to pass up.
Those corps who followed out the door in 2017..... I think just saw it as a good opportunity to exit en masse and save face from the grim reality of confrontational pressures extending into their retirement years. Even if you go to the R&R website.... it's the same 20 people who do "teachings/sharings" in a fake world of striving together for the unity of the spirit. No comments in the comment section. Ho-hum blandness.... month after month. Big whoop. My cynicism with such groups makes me think that most of these corps (from this six-year old exodus) are fading into the fabric of life and living.... only held together by a few weak threads of nostalgia for "the good old days."
Let's face it.... very few movements are initiated by guys in their late 60's, early 70's. Time has passed them by.
As Rocky pointed out..... I see their situation befitting to the description: Stolen Youth.
In my opinion..... those splinter groups that CONTINUE to teach the wierwille doctrine of Fundamentalism and Cult Control are worse than twi's institutional dogma BECAUSE these splinter guys portray themselves as groundbreaking revivalists and restorers of the faith that is in Christ Jesus. When, in reality, they simply got frustrated with Rosalie (or LCM) and took their shingle across the street, changed their business name, and set up shop. Then proceeded to inculcate the same material with slightly tweaked loaded language.
It's so damn obvious what they're doing.... tired of playing second fiddle, these splinter guys bolted when they saw "a future without being subservient to twi's board of directors more advantageous that rowing the mothership-cult along." Add, gaining the podium spotlight and access to the abs-money as incentives too good to pass up. . . .
The purpose of the Imperial Harems of the Ottoman Empire were to produce an heir. Of course, many were produced. It was understood the siblings would commit fratricide via political means. One would remain in the end and claim the right to rule, having proven to have developed the needed and ruthless to skills. This helped an Empire last hundreds of years without the civil wars their European counterparts faced.
In an organization where there the daily motivation is centered around becoming the One, there can only be One. If that spot is taken by someone else, how do you now motivate yourself each day?
And since murder isn't happening in TWI . . . splinters . . . because perfection, build utopia, as agreed to on the Green Card.
The purpose of the Imperial Harems of the Ottoman Empire were to produce an heir. Of course, many were produced. It was understood the siblings would commit fratricide via political means. One would remain in the end and claim the right to rule, having proven to have developed the needed and ruthless to skills. This helped an Empire last hundreds of years without the civil wars their European counterparts faced.
In an organization where there the daily motivation is centered around becoming the One, there can only be One. If that spot is taken by someone else, how do you now motivate yourself each day?
And since murder isn't happening in TWI . . . splinters . . . because perfection, build utopia, as agreed to on the Green Card.
All right Neo.
Point taken. To the blissfully unaware in a splinter it is utopia.
I am sure there are an infinite number of “there can be only one” avenues to pursue.
One can start a business and be fully responsible for one’s own future. As “the One”. Nowadays you just need a YouTube channel and a Patreon account to be “the one”.
But there are only a certain amount of people in a certain age group that ever are “the one” in cults which usually amounts to timing and compliance. Compliance over time is the governing principle.
Point taken. To the blissfully unaware in a splinter it is utopia.
I am sure there are an infinite number of “there can be only one” avenues to pursue.
One can start a business and be fully responsible for one’s own future. As “the One”. Nowadays you just need a YouTube channel and a Patreon account to be “the one”.
But there are only a certain amount of people in a certain age group that ever are “the one” in cults which usually amounts to timing and compliance. Compliance over time is the governing principle.
Utopia is the story of the Tower of Babel and its cult following. Out of a famous book. It splintered.
In A Clockwork Orange's dystopia, Alex steps forward, volunteers, signs paperwork . . . this is symbolism by the author/director. Squid Game is a story on Netflix. Volunteers only.
These stories are warnings, aren't they?
I was listening to a lady on youtube last night. I was listening to her equalize good with evil and motivate her followers. Monsters there too, yes.
One can start a business and be fully responsible for one’s own future. As “the One”. Nowadays you just need a YouTube channel and a Patreon account to be “the one”.
But there are only a certain amount of people in a certain age group that ever are “the one” in cults which usually amounts to timing and compliance. Compliance over time is the governing principle.
Exactly!
In the 1980’s, it was mostly region and limb guys who started splinter groups… because they already had years of compliant followers in their state/region. When wierwille died and twi was in disarray working through the wrangling of geer’s encroachment, it was quite easy to break away and take their followers with them, From what I understand, Charlie Quillen did the same thing in Illinois breaking from CFF in Ohio soon after Shroyer died.
Now, the R&R group took a different approach. With corps coordinators mounting a charge, they rallied disgruntled corps grads from around the country and did a Facebook Meeting to explain their grievances. Once twi got wind of it, “top leaders” were marked/avoid and thus, no restoration of twi. LOL Personally, I think R&R will fizzle away in another 5-8 years. Too many egos. Too old to garner support. Too many corps grads who know how the game is played. Too old to dip into SS checks and support a losing battle.
In the 1980’s, it was mostly region and limb guys who started splinter groups… because they already had years of compliant followers in their state/region. When wierwille died and twi was in disarray working through the wrangling of geer’s encroachment, it was quite easy to break away and take their followers with them, From what I understand, Charlie Quillen did the same thing in Illinois breaking from CFF in Ohio soon after Shroyer died.
Now, the R&R group took a different approach. With corps coordinators mounting a charge, they rallied disgruntled corps grads from around the country and did a Facebook Meeting to explain their grievances. Once twi got wind of it, “top leaders” were marked/avoid and thus, no restoration of twi. LOL Personally, I think R&R will fizzle away in another 5-8 years. Too many egos. Too old to garner support. Too many corps grads who know how the game is played. Too old to dip into SS checks and support a losing battle.
RnR is basically a twig teaching calendar to share the wealth among ex Corpse who didn’t get attention while in TWI. Now they can do the equivalent of teach a STS and maybe host a class like Rico’s once or something. And hold home fellowships just like they always did. It’s basically not any different material wise. Except dumber. I listened to a few teachings. It’s not better than TWI.
Quillen has that other Way Corpse program doubling down on those principles. V2P2 is a mini moglet so they feel successful. Yuck.
There are many many others.
Paul describes them accurately as shipwrecks of the family faith.
The I's are clever. Especially taking into account the sociopath stare.
Points 1 and 2.
Targeting the youth. That's why they swung the spoon. These steps needed to be sped up. Kids don't have the psychology available to make certain decisions. Their reactions are unfiltered and don't conform to expectations.
Ageism. Similar in universities. Older generation indoctrinate younger ones.
Is every generation raised without any guidance from their family of origin? It's like followers just vaporize out of thin air. . . . and then stuff happens. Yeah the rest of the points are fascinating.
The I's are clever. Especially taking into account the sociopath stare.
Points 1 and 2.
Targeting the youth. That's why they swung the spoon. These steps needed to be sped up. Kids don't have the psychology available to make certain decisions. Their reactions are unfiltered and don't conform to expectations.
Ageism. Similar in universities. Older generation indoctrinate younger ones.
Is every generation raised without any guidance from their family of origin? It's like followers just vaporize out of thin air. . . . and then stuff happens. Yeah the rest of the points are fascinating.
Ageism, really?
A man must do the work with that faculty he has now. But that faculty is the accumulation of past days.... No rival can rival backwards. What you have learned and done, is safe and fruitful. Work and learn in evil days, in insulted days, in days of depression and debt and calamity. Fight best in the shade of the cloud of arrows. -- Emerson, Journals and Misc. Notebooks of Ralph Waldo Emerson. Cited in Three Roads Back: How Emerson, Thoreau and William James Responded to the Greatest Losses of Their Lives, by Robert D Richardson.
A man must do the work with that faculty he has now. But that faculty is the accumulation of past days.... No rival can rival backwards. What you have learned and done, is safe and fruitful. Work and learn in evil days, in insulted days, in days of depression and debt and calamity. Fight best in the shade of the cloud of arrows. -- Emerson, Journals and Misc. Notebooks of Ralph Waldo Emerson. Cited in Three Roads Back: How Emerson, Thoreau and William James Responded to the Greatest Losses of Their Lives, by Robert D Richardson.
Maybe it's the wrong term. But the "thread" was describing how older generations take advantage of younger ones, young minds. Cult leaders can be older, but that's certainly not the rule.
The transition from dependent to independent may be what's in focus. An example can be found in universities, targeting impressionable young minds.
So naturally, why so moldable as betray everything gleaned in the decades before?
Rocky..... to add further to your statement, I wouldn't today BE the man I am without doing the arduous task of mining out the gold understanding of how the twi-cult deceived its followers. Nor would any of us who've stayed committed to unearthing these nuggets of wisdom and understanding here at GSC.
I made this comment on another thread:
On 2/8/2023 at 6:58 PM, OldSkool said:
Oh boy, my life was changed for the better by his ministry, but the way international is built on a stack of lies propagated by wierwille. Because there was improvement doesn't excuse the evil's. My life is the best now that I dropped my idolization of a false prophet and turned to Christ, you can keep your better.
And I think it deserves an explanation. My life was bettered by the way ministry in a sense. Basically, goal setting, self discipline, working a wide variety of menial (some worthless) jobs, working with and meeting a variety of people, I mean Im not gonna lie and say it was all bad. Overall, I became a better person from those and other experiences. However, I could have accomplished the same thing and in a much better fashion than was accomplished in TWI without all the rigamarole foisted on me by the way international. And lets not sidestep that God isnt cancelled by the way international. Certainly, God has had his hand on my life for a long while now. So any improvement in a person's life, wherther from God or just from hard work, the way international not only wants credit but they demand blind obediance and undying loyalty.
With that out the way, my life was damaged way worse in other categories due to the doctrinal/practical error they teach and I used to believe. It wasnt until I started unravelling the ball of yarn of my life that I really began to understand just where I had been lied to and how those lies led me astray in my relationship with God/Christ and other Christians even.
Then there's the ethical side of things that led me to speak openly and candidly about all I have been exposed to with the way international's underbelly. It's ugly and was worthy of RICO charges. I will not give tacit consent by going away silently. I will not share in their sins by helping them cover it all up.
But yeah, my life was made marginally better due to my experiences in the way international, right before a giant wrecking ball came through and left me in a mess that's taken years to climb out of. Anywho.
The way I see it is if it took all the junk Ive had to endure to get where I am today it was worth the fight, and may the information and exposé I have contributed here continue to find it's way to those who need to see. We have taken a work amongst the bruised and broken hearted and brought healing and freedom to many. Thats for certain. The content on GSC is a huge piece of the puzzle in me finally leaving TWI back in 2008.
In my opinion..... those splinter groups that CONTINUE to teach the wierwille doctrine of Fundamentalism and Cult Control are worse than twi's institutional dogma BECAUSE these splinter guys portray themselves as groundbreaking revivalists and restorers of the faith that is in Christ Jesus. When, in reality, they simply got frustrated with Rosalie (or LCM) and took their shingle across the street, changed their business name, and set up shop. Then proceeded to inculcate the same material with slightly tweaked loaded language.
Yep. They may have marginal difference with the way international but at the end of the day the song remains the same with an added verse. Some of them are more deceptive that others as well because they hide the fact that they are a way internatinal splinter group. I tried the offshoot circuit within the first couple months of leaving the way internatinal. Boy, was that a mistake. All any of them wanted was for me to goto work for them.
Maybe it's the wrong term. But the "thread" was describing how older generations take advantage of younger ones, young minds. Cult leaders can be older, but that's certainly not the rule.
The transition from dependent to independent may be what's in focus. An example can be found in universities, targeting impressionable young minds.
So naturally, why so moldable as betray everything gleaned in the decades before?
Indeed, besides considering how with the experience of living for a while (decades perhaps) a person can better recognize the traps cult leaders set up, with those years of experience, there are people who learn to exploit the vulnerability of youth. That's sad. Perhaps it's behind the call, in education circles, to teach critical thinking skills.
However, it occurs to me for a young adult to fend off those who would exploit, emotional/mental health skills are necessary additionally. It's not so easy to raise children who immediately recognize their own vulnerability. It also occurs to me the academy has or should have room for more disciplined study of the phenomenon.
In the 1980’s, it was mostly region and limb guys who started splinter groups… because they already had years of compliant followers in their state/region. When wierwille died and twi was in disarray working through the wrangling of geer’s encroachment, it was quite easy to break away and take their followers with them, From what I understand, Charlie Quillen did the same thing in Illinois breaking from CFF in Ohio soon after Shroyer died.
Now, the R&R group took a different approach. With corps coordinators mounting a charge, they rallied disgruntled corps grads from around the country and did a Facebook Meeting to explain their grievances. Once twi got wind of it, “top leaders” were marked/avoid and thus, no restoration of twi. LOL Personally, I think R&R will fizzle away in another 5-8 years. Too many egos. Too old to garner support. Too many corps grads who know how the game is played. Too old to dip into SS checks and support a losing battle.
You make it sound like their forming a group was accidental. They went into things with the internet domain names already reserved for when they officially formed the group of the same name.
Yep. They may have marginal difference with the way international but at the end of the day the song remains the same with an added verse. Some of them are more deceptive that others as well because they hide the fact that they are a way internatinal splinter group. I tried the offshoot circuit within the first couple months of leaving the way international. Boy, was that a mistake. All any of them wanted was for me to go to work for them.
You make it sound like their forming a group was accidental. They went into things with the internet domain names already reserved for when they officially formed the group of the same name.
Accidental? I'm not quite sure how you derived that from my post.
I would say that the forming of these splinter groups is methodical...... ie these corps saw an opportunity to break away at some point and took actionable steps to incrementally break from twi. In the 1980's, those corps men (broadly speaking) were mostly limb and region guys. They already had a listing of names, phone numbers and addresses in their files. I know that because I certainly had access to this information at the Oklahoma Limb.
With strategic planning and incremental steps, it wouldn't be a "leap of faith" for people to stop their affiliation with mothercult-twi and go local. Heck, even in the church denominations, we see this shifting from time to time. People will follow someone they trust rather than brand name only.
I would say that the forming of these splinter groups is methodical...... ie these corps saw an opportunity to break away at some point and took actionable steps to incrementally break from twi. In the 1980's, those corps men (broadly speaking) were mostly limb and region guys. They already had a listing of names, phone numbers and addresses in their files. I know that because I certainly had access to this information at the Oklahoma Limb.
Limbs and Regions had these names and mailing listings in order to promote outreach in their areas. Each month, Grapevine Newsletters were sent out that included a short letter from the limb/region coordinator, announcements, and upcoming events. Things like Resurrection Sunday Events, Pentecost Weekend, Coffee Houses in the area, Music Festivals, Travel Itineraries, Branch Meetings and of course... any time wierwille or martindale were coming to the state. Announcements and congratulations were often included in the monthly newsletter to couples who had babies and those who achieved military or academic recognition.
Thus, this in-house communication at the state level was pertinent to stay connected and keep churning outreach in the area. By extension, all of this activity provided a "hub of local connectivity" that bypassed headquarters altogether. Sure, many people got their Way Magazine and Sunday Service tapes in the mail, but not everyone. It was well-known in the mid-to-late 70's and early 80's that twi had to guilt and coerce followers to keep their subscriptions current. Oftentimes, there was so much activity locally that people didn't see the need to *stay connected* with a central headquarters far, far away. And, the farther one lived from Ohio.... the less people felt connected to hq.
Consequently, places like California, Oregon, Washington, Arizona and Florida (in my opinion) held powerful, strategic allegiance with their followers that other states did not have. And, obviously.... the further away from headquarters, the less the "big dogs from headquarters" visited the state. Which, again, it came as little surprise to me that Rev. Doug Seed in California was one of the first states to break away from twi's grasp when disarray ensued in the mid-80's.
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skyrider
Looking back through the years of twi-involvement, I now see how this cult organization set their snares to entrap me. It is NO SECRET that cults target the youth and twi is no different. Through ye
skyrider
4. Intimidation -- slowly, but surely, your authentic self is being re-formatted to a cult follower Through the years, I have often wondered if twi's information on "the worship manifestations"
waysider
Ambulance chasers
Rocky
I realize you know this, but you wouldn't today BE the man you are without having lived through twi's cultishness.
You today, no longer in your youth, have insight from the experience... so you can share that experience and help many keep from taking the same path.
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skyrider
Of course, you are right in your assessment of my whimsical statement.
In those transitional years from my youth to adulthood (and sound judgment).... it has given me a deep understanding of how people are manipulated and exploited. And, like you Rocky, I have given hundreds and hundreds of hours to post here at GSC and help dismantle their authoritarian rule. Brick by brick, we are making headway.
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skyrider
Rocky..... to add further to your statement, I wouldn't today BE the man I am without doing the arduous task of mining out the gold understanding of how the twi-cult deceived its followers. Nor would any of us who've stayed committed to unearthing these nuggets of wisdom and understanding here at GSC. While scores of thousands who exited this cult and, seemingly cared not a whit of how this deception happened, we are not counted among them. We've pressed onward to gain a full accounting of twi's history and its seduction so that we don't fall prey to another cult or organization.
Like many of you, the faithful who continue to sound the alarm..... I have been OUT of twi longer than I was in. And, during these past 25 years..... especially when Waydale was launched in April 1999, these years of open discussion and disclosure of twi-experiences [Waydale & GSC], we are surrounded by a wealth of experiences and eye-witnesses. Thank you all. Thank you Paw.
Unto whom much is given.... much is required. In my estimation, the faithful posters here at GSC have given back more than was required.
Peace.
.
Edited by skyridertypo
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chockfull
Yeah. What’s up apostates?
Lol.
Piecing together and coming to grips with my past is part of my own personal spiritual journey with my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
To do so has required the hard work of breaking down the doctrinal and practical error in following scripture.
I actually feel a lot more comfortable in my Christian faith than I ever did while in TWI.
While some may temporarily benefit from their classes with an increased focus on scripture and study, the deceit in the package and how it is laid out form a very compelling trap that few escape from unscathed.
Small inconsistencies in scripture and in commentary by Christian preachers is magnified to create a wormhole in the body of Christ that suck the naieve in and consume decades of their lives in a time warp.
Steer clear of the snake oil salesmen who have dedicated their lives to this fundamentalist separatist cult and choose interaction with more profitable members of the body of Christ.
Peace out in the name of our Lord.
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Rocky
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Rocky
I just went to see what's on Hulu. I found this. Not a fundamentalist Christian cult, but a cult nevertheless. Stolen Youth: Inside the cult at Sarah Lawrence
Half the battle in pulling together a creatively successful true-crime documentary is, surely, finding the right story — one that can hold our interest and can, potentially, generate insights beyond the simple facts of the case. But the other half, the filmmaker’s approach, matters every bit as much. In narrating the famous tale of a bizarre ring of extortion that bloomed at Sarah Lawrence College in the early 2010s, “Stolen Youth” director Zach Heinzerling certainly has his subject. But with a startling rawness and directness, Heinzerling’s work makes a case for itself as an unusually sensitive and strong outing in its genre.
Those familiar with the case of Larry Ray, a parent of a Sarah Lawrence student who moved into his daughter’s housing at the Bronxville, N.Y., liberal arts college, may have learned about it from coverage in New York Magazine, which ran a lengthy feature on the story in 2019. One of that story’s co-authors tells Heinzerling’s cameras that reporting on Ray was surprisingly easy: “Everyone in his life is a player in this game, and he needs an audience.” As applied to a circle of unformed young people curious about the grown-up in their midst, the game Ray plays is one of domination, brainwashing them into needing his approval.
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chockfull
Many who left the cult went on to start other variations on the VPW idolatry by setting up splinter organizations that still magnify PFAL and Wierwille.
These groups are no less culty than the original, even if they are pushing for some kind of TWI reform which will never happen because the leaders love their power and status more than truth.
What they need to do is come to grips with the isolationist separatist doctrine that they cling to that causes them to be blind to other Christians in a genuine fellowship sense.
They need to get some kind of spray to get rid of the “household of God” cult separatist focus.
The whole package like the Great Principle and all the lies in the “collaterals” most specifically are the most damaging. It is kind of like they accuse Joel Olsteen as “Christianity lite”. Well Joel is a spiritual heavy compared to the horse puckey swallowed down like a pill by all the VPW worshippers in splinters.
Get rid of the huckster in your life and develop a true Christian relationship with Jesus Christ.
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skyrider
In my opinion..... those splinter groups that CONTINUE to teach the wierwille doctrine of Fundamentalism and Cult Control are worse than twi's institutional dogma BECAUSE these splinter guys portray themselves as groundbreaking revivalists and restorers of the faith that is in Christ Jesus. When, in reality, they simply got frustrated with Rosalie (or LCM) and took their shingle across the street, changed their business name, and set up shop. Then proceeded to inculcate the same material with slightly tweaked loaded language.
It's so damn obvious what they're doing.... tired of playing second fiddle, these splinter guys bolted when they saw "a future without being subservient to twi's board of directors more advantageous that rowing the mothership-cult along." Add, gaining the podium spotlight and access to the abs-money as incentives too good to pass up.
Those corps who followed out the door in 2017..... I think just saw it as a good opportunity to exit en masse and save face from the grim reality of confrontational pressures extending into their retirement years. Even if you go to the R&R website.... it's the same 20 people who do "teachings/sharings" in a fake world of striving together for the unity of the spirit. No comments in the comment section. Ho-hum blandness.... month after month. Big whoop. My cynicism with such groups makes me think that most of these corps (from this six-year old exodus) are fading into the fabric of life and living.... only held together by a few weak threads of nostalgia for "the good old days."
Let's face it.... very few movements are initiated by guys in their late 60's, early 70's. Time has passed them by.
As Rocky pointed out..... I see their situation befitting to the description: Stolen Youth.
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Bolshevik
The purpose of the Imperial Harems of the Ottoman Empire were to produce an heir. Of course, many were produced. It was understood the siblings would commit fratricide via political means. One would remain in the end and claim the right to rule, having proven to have developed the needed and ruthless to skills. This helped an Empire last hundreds of years without the civil wars their European counterparts faced.
In an organization where there the daily motivation is centered around becoming the One, there can only be One. If that spot is taken by someone else, how do you now motivate yourself each day?
And since murder isn't happening in TWI . . . splinters . . . because perfection, build utopia, as agreed to on the Green Card.
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chockfull
All right Neo.
Point taken. To the blissfully unaware in a splinter it is utopia.
I am sure there are an infinite number of “there can be only one” avenues to pursue.
One can start a business and be fully responsible for one’s own future. As “the One”. Nowadays you just need a YouTube channel and a Patreon account to be “the one”.
But there are only a certain amount of people in a certain age group that ever are “the one” in cults which usually amounts to timing and compliance. Compliance over time is the governing principle.
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Bolshevik
Utopia is the story of the Tower of Babel and its cult following. Out of a famous book. It splintered.
In A Clockwork Orange's dystopia, Alex steps forward, volunteers, signs paperwork . . . this is symbolism by the author/director. Squid Game is a story on Netflix. Volunteers only.
These stories are warnings, aren't they?
I was listening to a lady on youtube last night. I was listening to her equalize good with evil and motivate her followers. Monsters there too, yes.
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skyrider
Exactly!
In the 1980’s, it was mostly region and limb guys who started splinter groups… because they already had years of compliant followers in their state/region. When wierwille died and twi was in disarray working through the wrangling of geer’s encroachment, it was quite easy to break away and take their followers with them, From what I understand, Charlie Quillen did the same thing in Illinois breaking from CFF in Ohio soon after Shroyer died.
Now, the R&R group took a different approach. With corps coordinators mounting a charge, they rallied disgruntled corps grads from around the country and did a Facebook Meeting to explain their grievances. Once twi got wind of it, “top leaders” were marked/avoid and thus, no restoration of twi. LOL Personally, I think R&R will fizzle away in another 5-8 years. Too many egos. Too old to garner support. Too many corps grads who know how the game is played. Too old to dip into SS checks and support a losing battle.
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chockfull
RnR is basically a twig teaching calendar to share the wealth among ex Corpse who didn’t get attention while in TWI. Now they can do the equivalent of teach a STS and maybe host a class like Rico’s once or something. And hold home fellowships just like they always did. It’s basically not any different material wise. Except dumber. I listened to a few teachings. It’s not better than TWI.
Quillen has that other Way Corpse program doubling down on those principles. V2P2 is a mini moglet so they feel successful. Yuck.
There are many many others.
Paul describes them accurately as shipwrecks of the family faith.
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Bolshevik
The I's are clever. Especially taking into account the sociopath stare.
Points 1 and 2.
Targeting the youth. That's why they swung the spoon. These steps needed to be sped up. Kids don't have the psychology available to make certain decisions. Their reactions are unfiltered and don't conform to expectations.
Ageism. Similar in universities. Older generation indoctrinate younger ones.
Is every generation raised without any guidance from their family of origin? It's like followers just vaporize out of thin air. . . . and then stuff happens. Yeah the rest of the points are fascinating.
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Rocky
Ageism, really?
A man must do the work with that faculty he has now. But that faculty is the accumulation of past days.... No rival can rival backwards. What you have learned and done, is safe and fruitful. Work and learn in evil days, in insulted days, in days of depression and debt and calamity. Fight best in the shade of the cloud of arrows. -- Emerson, Journals and Misc. Notebooks of Ralph Waldo Emerson. Cited in Three Roads Back: How Emerson, Thoreau and William James Responded to the Greatest Losses of Their Lives, by Robert D Richardson.
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Bolshevik
Maybe it's the wrong term. But the "thread" was describing how older generations take advantage of younger ones, young minds. Cult leaders can be older, but that's certainly not the rule.
The transition from dependent to independent may be what's in focus. An example can be found in universities, targeting impressionable young minds.
So naturally, why so moldable as betray everything gleaned in the decades before?
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OldSkool
I made this comment on another thread:
And I think it deserves an explanation. My life was bettered by the way ministry in a sense. Basically, goal setting, self discipline, working a wide variety of menial (some worthless) jobs, working with and meeting a variety of people, I mean Im not gonna lie and say it was all bad. Overall, I became a better person from those and other experiences. However, I could have accomplished the same thing and in a much better fashion than was accomplished in TWI without all the rigamarole foisted on me by the way international. And lets not sidestep that God isnt cancelled by the way international. Certainly, God has had his hand on my life for a long while now. So any improvement in a person's life, wherther from God or just from hard work, the way international not only wants credit but they demand blind obediance and undying loyalty.
With that out the way, my life was damaged way worse in other categories due to the doctrinal/practical error they teach and I used to believe. It wasnt until I started unravelling the ball of yarn of my life that I really began to understand just where I had been lied to and how those lies led me astray in my relationship with God/Christ and other Christians even.
Then there's the ethical side of things that led me to speak openly and candidly about all I have been exposed to with the way international's underbelly. It's ugly and was worthy of RICO charges. I will not give tacit consent by going away silently. I will not share in their sins by helping them cover it all up.
But yeah, my life was made marginally better due to my experiences in the way international, right before a giant wrecking ball came through and left me in a mess that's taken years to climb out of. Anywho.
The way I see it is if it took all the junk Ive had to endure to get where I am today it was worth the fight, and may the information and exposé I have contributed here continue to find it's way to those who need to see. We have taken a work amongst the bruised and broken hearted and brought healing and freedom to many. Thats for certain. The content on GSC is a huge piece of the puzzle in me finally leaving TWI back in 2008.
Edited by OldSkoolLink to comment
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OldSkool
Yep. They may have marginal difference with the way international but at the end of the day the song remains the same with an added verse. Some of them are more deceptive that others as well because they hide the fact that they are a way internatinal splinter group. I tried the offshoot circuit within the first couple months of leaving the way internatinal. Boy, was that a mistake. All any of them wanted was for me to goto work for them.
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Rocky
Indeed, besides considering how with the experience of living for a while (decades perhaps) a person can better recognize the traps cult leaders set up, with those years of experience, there are people who learn to exploit the vulnerability of youth. That's sad. Perhaps it's behind the call, in education circles, to teach critical thinking skills.
However, it occurs to me for a young adult to fend off those who would exploit, emotional/mental health skills are necessary additionally. It's not so easy to raise children who immediately recognize their own vulnerability. It also occurs to me the academy has or should have room for more disciplined study of the phenomenon.
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WordWolf
You make it sound like their forming a group was accidental. They went into things with the internet domain names already reserved for when they officially formed the group of the same name.
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WordWolf
Boy, that sure IS the same....
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OldSkool
Appropriate, no?
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skyrider
Accidental? I'm not quite sure how you derived that from my post.
I would say that the forming of these splinter groups is methodical...... ie these corps saw an opportunity to break away at some point and took actionable steps to incrementally break from twi. In the 1980's, those corps men (broadly speaking) were mostly limb and region guys. They already had a listing of names, phone numbers and addresses in their files. I know that because I certainly had access to this information at the Oklahoma Limb.
With strategic planning and incremental steps, it wouldn't be a "leap of faith" for people to stop their affiliation with mothercult-twi and go local. Heck, even in the church denominations, we see this shifting from time to time. People will follow someone they trust rather than brand name only.
.
Edited by skyridertypo
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skyrider
Limbs and Regions had these names and mailing listings in order to promote outreach in their areas. Each month, Grapevine Newsletters were sent out that included a short letter from the limb/region coordinator, announcements, and upcoming events. Things like Resurrection Sunday Events, Pentecost Weekend, Coffee Houses in the area, Music Festivals, Travel Itineraries, Branch Meetings and of course... any time wierwille or martindale were coming to the state. Announcements and congratulations were often included in the monthly newsletter to couples who had babies and those who achieved military or academic recognition.
Thus, this in-house communication at the state level was pertinent to stay connected and keep churning outreach in the area. By extension, all of this activity provided a "hub of local connectivity" that bypassed headquarters altogether. Sure, many people got their Way Magazine and Sunday Service tapes in the mail, but not everyone. It was well-known in the mid-to-late 70's and early 80's that twi had to guilt and coerce followers to keep their subscriptions current. Oftentimes, there was so much activity locally that people didn't see the need to *stay connected* with a central headquarters far, far away. And, the farther one lived from Ohio.... the less people felt connected to hq.
Consequently, places like California, Oregon, Washington, Arizona and Florida (in my opinion) held powerful, strategic allegiance with their followers that other states did not have. And, obviously.... the further away from headquarters, the less the "big dogs from headquarters" visited the state. Which, again, it came as little surprise to me that Rev. Doug Seed in California was one of the first states to break away from twi's grasp when disarray ensued in the mid-80's.
.
Edited by skyrideradd clarity
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