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God’s Budget and Double Doors .... On the Scarcity of Miracles


Mike
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1 minute ago, So_crates said:

Life may be unfair, but God isn't.

Are you making this stuff up as you go. It sure feels like it.

No. I've been through this with other grads for decades, and with myself also.

We are living behind enemy lines.
God is not in charge; the devil is.
This is temporary.
All this is in PFAL.
The broken universe is in Romans 8.

 

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4 minutes ago, So_crates said:

Life may be unfair, but God isn't.

Jesus's Prayer to the Father:
... Thy will be done on Earth
as it is in heaven.

God's will is not done on Earth right now.
God is not in charge; it's broken.

 

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45 minutes ago, Mike said:

I think you are at a disadvantage when it comes to understanding them.

If you look at old cigarette ads or old TV shows, they push all kinds of emotional buttons also. 

It is after you learn to suppress emotion that you can see the data more thoroughly and hence more clearly.

But you clearly are riding the emotion like an amusement park ride. It must be fun, but that's the hook.  Like all free rides, there is a comedown price to pay.

You think wrongly.

My advantage is that I look at them with a clear mind, a mind free from conditioning, free from indoctrination, free from expectations, free from conclusions, free from emotion, free from beleeef.

Emotion doesn't need to be suppressed. That's childish. That's not how I deal with emotion.

 I'm not on a ride and I'm not hooked. I take no free rides.

victor did, though. He took a free ride on the backs of so many. He thought he could freely spit in the face of a messenger of God. Look what happened. He paid the ultimate price. There's your fruit, unchanging.

Edited by Nathan_Jr
Gloves
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2 minutes ago, Mike said:

From whom did you get these expectations? I'm guessing VPW and session one. Did you update them with the SNS tapes, like I posted a few minutes ago? 

Dude, you're the guy who's been crying for years about how it's all in the collaterals. Now you're saying that argument needs to be augmented? Sorry, can't have your cake and jar of pickles too. Is it all in the collaterals or isn't it?

"Well, ya see it's complicated......" :rolleyes:

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6 hours ago, So_crates said:

The corps ruined the ministry? Has Mike forgotten whose baby the corps was?

How many times did you not read my comments that I feel like calling the Corps "Wierwille's Folly" in the past 6 months? 

Like VPW was wrong (and admitted it) in committing the funds and time for PFAL'77 being a replacement for the '68 class, I feel he was wrong in the way he wound up the Corps training, and the Corps taking over the field. But after 1982 it was too late for him to admit the mistakes and too late for him to implement change. 

I know there were many good people and activities from the Corps also. I don't forget that, even though I don't always post it.

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Just now, Mike said:

How are you defining this promised abundant life?

What difference does it make? It's a compilation of everything you've stated in this thread added to Saint Vic's original assertations.

Just now, Mike said:

I mean THEN, how did you define it.

What WERE your expectations in such a life back then?p

I was told wait until you see the life God has planned for you. That was my expectation. Needless to say I never saw that great life.

Just now, Mike said:

From whom did you get these expectations? I'm guessing VPW and session one. Did you update them with the SNS tapes, like I posted a few minutes ago? 

Yah, give me some more empty excuses. Why would I want to waste my time having my ear cocked listening to every SNS tape when the bull in the foundation class didn't float?

Did the apostles need to listen to SNS tapes? Do atheist and other unbelievers?

Just now, Mike said:

Most importantly, did you refine your Session One understanding/definition/expectations as you searched the Gospels to see what Jesus had to say about such an abundant life, beyond John10:10?

So you're saying Saint Vic pulled a bait and switch. He made it clear in session one he was speaking of material abundance. But now you st further information would reveal that was a lie?

Just now, Mike said:

*/*/*/*

Sorry about all those questions at once.
I'd also be interested in how you define it now.

Did you eventually get it straight what kind of abundant life Jesus came for you to have?  If not, are you interested in Jesus' perspective on this?

You mean Saint Vic's interpretation of Jesus' perspective, don't you?

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12 minutes ago, Mike said:

No. I've been through this with other grads for decades, and with myself also.

We are living behind enemy lines.
God is not in charge; the devil is.
This is temporary.
All this is in PFAL.
The broken universe is in Romans 8.

 

God makes the rules of believing and the abundant life, not the devil. God is fair, therefore the rules of believing are fair.

You're just making up a training period to cover for not being able to answer Waysider's question which apparently brings into question the validity of the law of believing.

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14 minutes ago, Mike said:

Jesus's Prayer to the Father:
... Thy will be done on Earth
as it is in heaven.

God's will is not done on Earth right now.
God is not in charge; it's broken.

 

Bull, as I said God made the rules of believing therefore they must be fair.

If they're not fair, as you claim, then why bother?

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2 hours ago, chockfull said:

Yes post up the folder or don’t refer to it.  I do not believe you until I see it.

I am tempted to drop everything and get the folder into post-able form.  It is one of the ECNs that I've been proposing in texts to leaders, both in and out of TWI-4.

I wish I had the time to yield to that temptation right now.

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9 minutes ago, Mike said:

How many times did you not read my comments that I feel like calling the Corps "Wierwille's Folly" in the past 6 months? 

Like VPW was wrong (and admitted it) in committing the funds and time for PFAL'77 being a replacement for the '68 class, I feel he was wrong in the way he wound up the Corps training, and the Corps taking over the field. But after 1982 it was too late for him to admit the mistakes and too late for him to implement change. 

I know there were many good people and activities from the Corps also. I don't forget that, even though I don't always post it.

Then rather than blaming the Corps for the ministry's downfall, put responsibility where it belongs: Saint Vic is responsible for the downfall of his own ministry.

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Just now, So_crates said:

Bull, as I said God made the rules of believing therefore they must be fair.

If they're not fair, as you claim, then why bother?

God is fair, and the rules He made up before Adam's fall are fair.
But we got to know them well; down to details.

What is unfair is the playing field where we apply them in the devil's world. 

It is a complicated spiritual war we are in and all sorts of nasty, unfair things happen.  We were given the abilities to fight them, but we got to be good at using the abilities.  Things went wrong in our learning, very wrong, around 1986.  For people who got into the ministry after that it was unfair that they didn't get to see it all working well, like inthe 70s

From that chapter (9?) in Daniel, God's forces working for us are delayed and lots of things are going on behind the scenes we have no inking of. 

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6 minutes ago, Mike said:

I am tempted to drop everything and get the folder into post-able form.  It is one of the ECNs that I've been proposing in texts to leaders, both in and out of TWI-4.

I wish I had the time to yield to that temptation right now.

Isn't it strange how you have time for posting essays, yet you don't have time for other things, such as the above?

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11 minutes ago, Mike said:

God is fair, and the rules He made up before Adam's fall are fair.
But we got to know them well; down to details.

What is unfair is the playing field where we apply them in the devil's world. 

It is a complicated spiritual war we are in and all sorts of nasty, unfair things happen.  We were given the abilities to fight them, but we got to be good at using the abilities.  Things went wrong in our learning, very wrong, around 1986.  For people who got into the ministry after that it was unfair that they didn't get to see it all working well, like inthe 70s

From that chapter (9?) in Daniel, God's forces working for us are delayed and lots of things are going on behind the scenes we have no inking of. 

It helps if you didn't have a congenital liar pulling a bait and switch.

Edited by So_crates
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3 minutes ago, Mike said:

For people who got into the ministry after that it was unfair that they didn't get to see it all working well, like inthe 70s

I assure you, it wasn't "all working well" in the 70s. I was there. Remember?

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8 minutes ago, waysider said:

I assure you, it wasn't "all working well" in the 70s. I was there. Remember?

Again, it was marble cake. There were some VERY good spots.  I was there too, and managed to move from light spot to light spot for years.

Did you see Ralph D's account of that on Long Lsland that I posted yesterday?  It happened that way in several places.

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15 minutes ago, So_crates said:

Isn't it strange how you have time for posting essays, yet you don't have time for other things, such as the above?

No it is not strange.

What is strange is that you think I have an un-limited about of time for your topics.

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16 minutes ago, Mike said:

God is fair, and the rules He made up before Adam's fall are fair.
But we got to know them well; down to details.

What is unfair is the playing field where we apply them in the devil's world. 

It is a complicated spiritual war we are in and all sorts of nasty, unfair things happen.  We were given the abilities to fight them, but we got to be good at using the abilities.  Things went wrong in our learning, very wrong, around 1986.  For people who got into the ministry after that it was unfair that they didn't get to see it all working well, like inthe 70s

From that chapter (9?) in Daniel, God's forces working for us are delayed and lots of things are going on behind the scenes we have no inking of. 

So, in your theology, we can't even depend on God to meet our needs. He might get delayed.

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3 minutes ago, Mike said:

No it is not strange.

What is strange is that you think I have an un-limited about of time for your topics.

Nobody forces you to answer.

Just think of all the time you'd have then

Edited by So_crates
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37 minutes ago, waysider said:

Dude, you're the guy who's been crying for years about how it's all in the collaterals. Now you're saying that argument needs to be augmented?

That is not accurate.  I never said "t's all in the collaterals."

Not even close!!!

What I say is that I trust them and use them. 

Your memory is inaccurate here.

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