There is a training period and an application period. You are emphasizing the training period gone bad. It wasn't always that bad, at least, in areas outside the Corps.
If its not producing good fruit its not of God...I mean the avacados I purchased from the store werent always that rotten, at least, in areas outside the Corps.
Something entirely different that doesn't seem important now.
However, you stated that people didn't want to be prophets. Wouldn't it make sense, that like Mary, God would go to the people he knows would accept the challenge?
Wouldn't it make sense, that like Mary, God would go to the people he knows would accept the challenge?
Well, I thought in this context that would be the way corps, I mean we volunteered for whatever. But with mike the way corps ruined the ministry. So its just a bad concept and nobody would ever love God enough to do what needs to be done based on God's goodness and love he's show us.
Well, I thought in this context that would be the way corps, I mean we volunteered for whatever. But with mike the way corps ruined the ministry. So its just a bad concept and nobody would ever love God enough to do what needs to be done based on God's goodness and love he's show us.
The corps ruined the ministry? Has Mike forgotten whose baby the corps was?
The corps ruined the ministry? Has Mike forgotten whose baby the corps was?
From all the unvarnished history told and examined in this forum, it should be impossible to logically separate the Corps from victor. Corps is of the seed of vpw. LCM is of the seed of vpw — oily head and all.
To deny this fact is to, well, be in denial. This denial comes from a lack of “in depth spiritual awareness and perception.” This denial is a manifestation of willful ignorance and intellectual dishonesty.
And I’m inclined to beleeve it is no coincidence that the advent of Way Corps came a few years AFTER the founding of Sea Org. Way Corps is to vpw as Sea Org is to L. Ron Hubbard.
Victor learned from whomever he could. If it was right on with effectual indoctrination, isolation, control and supply exploitation, he kept it. If it wasn’t, he dropped it.
To deny this fact is to, well, be in denial. This denial comes from a lack of “in depth spiritual awareness and perception.” This denial is a manifestation of willful ignorance and intellectual dishonesty.
The way international calls it spiritual maturity.....
What is “in depth spiritual awareness and peception”? Is that on the green card? Advanced Class?
One of the way corps principles....complete bullshonta. Usually an indepth spiritual blah blah resulted in someone getting accused of being possessed and given the bums rush after sleeping with one of the trustees.
One of the way corps principles....complete bullshonta. Usually an indepth spiritual blah blah resulted in someone getting accused of being possessed and given the bums rush after sleeping with one of the trustees.
That’s right. Thanks.
I wouldn’t want to be off victor’s words. His own words reveal his depravity and stupidity.
I went into The Way Corps program because I had an unspoken yearning to achieve the signature intuition, fundamentalism, spiritualism, and Gnosticism of victor paul wierwille. *
*This post interprets itself… If I did stick with the program, I very well could have accomplished that – sort of. Through the ‘miracle’ of indoctrination I would have been mimickingwierwille’s signature intuition, fundamentalism, spiritualism, and Gnosticism. I would have viewed it as personal growth and development. Others might call it the wierwille-cloning process.
And I have skin in the game that I prefer to not pass thru my keyboard about,,, for my privacy and for the privacy of others. I have confided some of these things to as people in private, to the extent I think they could help me, or to the extent I thought that I can help them.
If you were any more transparent, you'd disappear. You're obviously planning on starting your own off-shoot.
4 hours ago, Mike said:
This is a VERY complicated problem, and most of the victims know it.You can’t win their trust with a pure evil model of nearly everything VPW said, did, and wrote.The victims are not that stupid, most of them.
This makes me very happy your not a trauma counselor.
The first thing that happens in trauma counseling is to exercise the victim's anger. This is done in a variety of ways, in one way I know of in particular, the counselor had the victim call the person causing the trauma vile names.
And, as long we're discussing victimization and message, how do you think it helps a victim to hear how good the person causing the trauma is.
Visualize a kid who's had a parent murdered. What do you think constantly hearing about what upstanding citizen would do to the child? Would it help or hurt?
4 hours ago, Mike said:
There is so much good that came to us all, and the victims know that too. What they don’t know is exactly what was correct that they have in their brain versus what was not correct in their brain. Telling them to dump it all and start over will repel the wise ones, and screw up the less wise ones.That is my opinion.
As I've told you before, you keep talking about the supposed "good" in general terms. If you go through the archives, you'll see all the evil done in detail. So rather than talk generally about the "good" how about giving specifics.
As you said, the victims are not that stupid. They'll see right through the language they can find in any commercial slogan:"Bosco is good." "Wonder Bread, the good choice."
I disagree. There is a training period and an application period. You are emphasizing the training period gone bad. It wasn't always that bad, at least, in areas outside the Corps.
Did you see my post yesterday of the 78 or 8 passages from the Gospels? They were all on the topic of the appropriate "blame" Jesus handed out in the Gospels to STUDENTS who he was teaching to believe better.
The “training period” you refer to is taking PFAL. Once you are through PFAL there is contained all the material in it to both blame victims and blame yourself for “not believing”
Yes I did see the mass spam post of scriptures you posted yesterday. No I do not agree that beyond an attempt to DDOS attack the thread with misapplied scriptures that are too numerous to dissect individually that it proves anything.
Much of Jesus action was dual natured. He had to bring Gods solution into the present while balancing keeping the critics at bay - the very same Pharisees who would denigrate his name and negate his efforts.
No Jesus was not “blaming” people for “mental assent”.
But your PLAF saturated brain cells most certainly do exactly that.
I have a folder concurring with much of this that I have prepared for TWI-4 people. Some of them I have already talked to in person or in texting about the Revered Title versus gift ministries. I have been received well. Maybe I should post on that folder sometime. The following discussion would probably beef it up some.
So instead of discussing the absolute truth of the detail of what I posted on TWIs doctrinal error in I Cor 12-14, you come up with
“I’ve got a folder”
Sounds like Dr Phil’s wife Robins podcast “I’ve got a secret”
Who cares about your dumb folder when it is just a ploy to focus attention OFF of the logic and truth of my post ONTO Mike and his “I’ve got a folder”.
”I have been received well”.
First I call bullshonta on you ever having these conversations. If you do, screenshot one of them or I don’t believe you. You make up backstory as you go.
Bullshonta to the Nth degree.
Mike you have no exposure as a lay person in TWI to this topic. Next if you are talking about it to TWI clergy you are being handled. They consider you in a different category. As does HQ.
That is unless the whole Mike persona is a made up identity and the real you actually does have exposure.
Just saying.
Yes post up the folder or don’t refer to it. I do not believe you until I see it.
Did those unbelievers, who were living a more abundant life than the believers, that VPW talked about in session 1 of PFAL have to complete a training period?... No? That's sounds a bit unfair, in my opinion.
Life in the broken universe is rarely fair; not yet, anyway.
The "abundant life" is a topic that is in bad need of definition.
I remember several SNS or SNT teachings over the decades calling attention to us getting the definition wrong. This could, and should, be a thread in itself.
I feel that I got an abundant life, and it is still developing.
There have been ups and downs, but that's to be expected in the 2nd heaven and earth, which are goaning in pain, like childbirth, at the moment.
I remember several SNS or SNT teachings over the decades calling attention to us getting the definition wrong. This could, and should, be a thread in itself.
Start a thread, then. VPW made it abundantly clear in session one he was alluding to physical abundance. Maybe you just weren't paying attention. It's OK. It happens.
But "producing good fruit" is, like I was saying earlier, a complicated entity.
I think it is pretty important to recognize that this entity changes from time to time. We have several decades of data to look at to see if the training techniques were working good or bad fruit.
An over-simplistic assessment of this, especially if a few of the decades were before one's time, could be very disadvantageous at times, when trying to help people who got hurt in the ministry machinery.
I have some first hand understanding that TWI-2 was an extreme version of the marble cake model I have of the ministry. As crazy as TWI-2 was at HQ, my first hand knowledge is of a few of the light spots on the field, far from HQ, and staffed by Corps wiser than their colleges elsewhere in TWI-2. I know a couple of people who dodged bullets in both TWI-2 and TWI-3, and are now helping TWI-4 remember what TWI-1 was like, when the marble cake was mostly light with a few dark swirls. TWI-2 was the opposite, lots of dark and only a few light swirls.
I say swirls, because of the fact that the personnel move about in the field geography every few years. It's that time factor again, zooming out and looking at years and decades.
I think you may mean 1971, not 72.
If it's really '72, I am interested in it.
I have transcripts for '71 and '79.
It's been about 15 years since I looked at them much. I search for things in them once in a while.
I did, indeed, mean 1971.
The transcript of the "teaching" on Romans with Q&A is from 1973.
The errors just LEAP off every page. No need to look for them. They will find you.
Also, CF&S syllabus and film from 1975.
All are evidence from the alleged golden years before things went from bad to worse. It's hard to read them without flinching, cringing, laughing or vomiting.
Start a thread, then. VPW made it abundantly clear in session one he was alluding to physical abundance. Maybe you just weren't paying attention. It's OK. It happens.
I paid attention to the class, then more to the book, but also to the followups in the SNS teachings for years.
Remember, the foundational class was foundational.
If you don't build on that foundation, then the Big Bad Wolf doesn't have to do much huffing and puffing. If you are stuck in your first impressions of Session One, then that might be a part of why the law of believing didn't work to your satisfaction.
In order to receive the abundant life from God, we have to know:
What's available
How to receive it
What to do with it when we got it
Have our needs and wants balanced
And two things that were not mentioned in the class about getting an abundant life:
Have a bibical verses in mind, or have revelation from God
And now realize there's an application and training period.
(Neither one of the two being required of unbelievers.)
Wouldn't we have already fulfilled our training period by having lived in fear? Since fear is negative believing we should all be experts on how to operate the law.
The transcript of the "teaching" on Romans with Q&A is from 1973.
The errors just LEAP off every page. No need to look for them. They will find you.
Also, CF&S syllabus and film from 1975.
All are evidence from the alleged golden years before things went from bad to worse. It's hard to read them without flinching, cringing, laughing or vomiting.
I think you are at a disadvantage when it comes to understanding them.
If you look at old cigarette ads or old TV shows, they push all kinds of emotional buttons also.
It is after you learn to suppress emotion that you can see the data more thoroughly and hence more clearly.
But you clearly are riding the emotion like an amusement park ride. It must be fun, but that's the hook. Like all free rides, there is a comedown price to pay.
In order to receive the abundant life from God, we have to know:
What's available
How to receive it
What to do with it when we got it
Have our needs and wants balanced
And two things that were not mentioned in the class about getting an abundant life:
Have a bibical verses in mind, or have revelation from God
And now realize there's an application and training period.
(Neither one of the two being required of unbelievers.)
Wouldn't we have already fulfilled our training period by having lived in fear? Since fear is negative believing we should all be experts on how to operate the law.
How are you defining this promised abundant life?
I mean THEN, how did you define it.
What WERE your expectations in such a life back then?
From whom did you get these expectations? I'm guessing VPW and session one. Did you update them with the SNS tapes, like I posted a few minutes ago?
Most importantly, did you refine your Session One understanding/definition/expectations as you searched the Gospels to see what Jesus had to say about such an abundant life, beyond John10:10?
*/*/*/*
Sorry about all those questions at once.
I'd also be interested in how you define it now.
Did you eventually get it straight what kind of abundant life Jesus came for you to have? If not, are you interested in Jesus' perspective on this?
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chockfull
I believe that the real deal is possible and the path toward it is to address and correct all the doctrinal and practical error introduced by VPs box top doctorate research. isolation from other
chockfull
The Corps is a necessary cult element providing free labor at the expense of volunteers lives. Any imagery like the Marines promotes extremist behavior. No other Christian seminary or school use
Nathan_Jr
"Teaching" Romans to the Corps, Q&A: LCM: How much does your behavior that people do not see influence your example to them? VPW: It doesn't, unless you believe it will. LCM: You u
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OldSkool
If its not producing good fruit its not of God...I mean the avacados I purchased from the store werent always that rotten, at least, in areas outside the Corps.
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So_crates
Something entirely different that doesn't seem important now.
However, you stated that people didn't want to be prophets. Wouldn't it make sense, that like Mary, God would go to the people he knows would accept the challenge?
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OldSkool
Well, I thought in this context that would be the way corps, I mean we volunteered for whatever. But with mike the way corps ruined the ministry. So its just a bad concept and nobody would ever love God enough to do what needs to be done based on God's goodness and love he's show us.
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So_crates
The corps ruined the ministry? Has Mike forgotten whose baby the corps was?
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Nathan_Jr
From all the unvarnished history told and examined in this forum, it should be impossible to logically separate the Corps from victor. Corps is of the seed of vpw. LCM is of the seed of vpw — oily head and all.
To deny this fact is to, well, be in denial. This denial comes from a lack of “in depth spiritual awareness and perception.” This denial is a manifestation of willful ignorance and intellectual dishonesty.
And I’m inclined to beleeve it is no coincidence that the advent of Way Corps came a few years AFTER the founding of Sea Org. Way Corps is to vpw as Sea Org is to L. Ron Hubbard.
Victor learned from whomever he could. If it was right on with effectual indoctrination, isolation, control and supply exploitation, he kept it. If it wasn’t, he dropped it.
Hey! I didn’t write the book.
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OldSkool
The way international calls it spiritual maturity.....
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Nathan_Jr
Right! That, too!
What is “in depth spiritual awareness and peception”? Is that on the green card? Advanced Class?
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OldSkool
One of the way corps principles....complete bullshonta. Usually an indepth spiritual blah blah resulted in someone getting accused of being possessed and given the bums rush after sleeping with one of the trustees.
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Nathan_Jr
That’s right. Thanks.
I wouldn’t want to be off victor’s words. His own words reveal his depravity and stupidity.
Edited by Nathan_JrGloves
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T-Bone
I went into The Way Corps program because I had an unspoken yearning to achieve the signature intuition, fundamentalism, spiritualism, and Gnosticism of victor paul wierwille. *
*This post interprets itself… If I did stick with the program, I very well could have accomplished that – sort of. Through the ‘miracle’ of indoctrination I would have been mimicking wierwille’s signature intuition, fundamentalism, spiritualism, and Gnosticism. I would have viewed it as personal growth and development. Others might call it the wierwille-cloning process.
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So_crates
If you were any more transparent, you'd disappear. You're obviously planning on starting your own off-shoot.
This makes me very happy your not a trauma counselor.
The first thing that happens in trauma counseling is to exercise the victim's anger. This is done in a variety of ways, in one way I know of in particular, the counselor had the victim call the person causing the trauma vile names.
And, as long we're discussing victimization and message, how do you think it helps a victim to hear how good the person causing the trauma is.
Visualize a kid who's had a parent murdered. What do you think constantly hearing about what upstanding citizen would do to the child? Would it help or hurt?
As I've told you before, you keep talking about the supposed "good" in general terms. If you go through the archives, you'll see all the evil done in detail. So rather than talk generally about the "good" how about giving specifics.
As you said, the victims are not that stupid. They'll see right through the language they can find in any commercial slogan:"Bosco is good." "Wonder Bread, the good choice."
That is my opinion.
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chockfull
The “training period” you refer to is taking PFAL. Once you are through PFAL there is contained all the material in it to both blame victims and blame yourself for “not believing”
Yes I did see the mass spam post of scriptures you posted yesterday. No I do not agree that beyond an attempt to DDOS attack the thread with misapplied scriptures that are too numerous to dissect individually that it proves anything.
Much of Jesus action was dual natured. He had to bring Gods solution into the present while balancing keeping the critics at bay - the very same Pharisees who would denigrate his name and negate his efforts.
No Jesus was not “blaming” people for “mental assent”.
But your PLAF saturated brain cells most certainly do exactly that.
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chockfull
So instead of discussing the absolute truth of the detail of what I posted on TWIs doctrinal error in I Cor 12-14, you come up with
“I’ve got a folder”
Sounds like Dr Phil’s wife Robins podcast “I’ve got a secret”
Who cares about your dumb folder when it is just a ploy to focus attention OFF of the logic and truth of my post ONTO Mike and his “I’ve got a folder”.
”I have been received well”.
First I call bullshonta on you ever having these conversations. If you do, screenshot one of them or I don’t believe you. You make up backstory as you go.
Bullshonta to the Nth degree.
Mike you have no exposure as a lay person in TWI to this topic. Next if you are talking about it to TWI clergy you are being handled. They consider you in a different category. As does HQ.
That is unless the whole Mike persona is a made up identity and the real you actually does have exposure.
Just saying.
Yes post up the folder or don’t refer to it. I do not believe you until I see it.
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Mike
I think you may mean 1971, not 72.
If it's really '72, I am interested in it.
I have transcripts for '71 and '79.
It's been about 15 years since I looked at them much. I search for things in them once in a while.
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Mike
Life in the broken universe is rarely fair; not yet, anyway.
The "abundant life" is a topic that is in bad need of definition.
I remember several SNS or SNT teachings over the decades calling attention to us getting the definition wrong. This could, and should, be a thread in itself.
I feel that I got an abundant life, and it is still developing.
There have been ups and downs, but that's to be expected in the 2nd heaven and earth, which are goaning in pain, like childbirth, at the moment.
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waysider
Start a thread, then. VPW made it abundantly clear in session one he was alluding to physical abundance. Maybe you just weren't paying attention. It's OK. It happens.
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Mike
I agree.
But "producing good fruit" is, like I was saying earlier, a complicated entity.
I think it is pretty important to recognize that this entity changes from time to time. We have several decades of data to look at to see if the training techniques were working good or bad fruit.
An over-simplistic assessment of this, especially if a few of the decades were before one's time, could be very disadvantageous at times, when trying to help people who got hurt in the ministry machinery.
I have some first hand understanding that TWI-2 was an extreme version of the marble cake model I have of the ministry. As crazy as TWI-2 was at HQ, my first hand knowledge is of a few of the light spots on the field, far from HQ, and staffed by Corps wiser than their colleges elsewhere in TWI-2. I know a couple of people who dodged bullets in both TWI-2 and TWI-3, and are now helping TWI-4 remember what TWI-1 was like, when the marble cake was mostly light with a few dark swirls. TWI-2 was the opposite, lots of dark and only a few light swirls.
I say swirls, because of the fact that the personnel move about in the field geography every few years. It's that time factor again, zooming out and looking at years and decades.
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Nathan_Jr
I did, indeed, mean 1971.
The transcript of the "teaching" on Romans with Q&A is from 1973.
The errors just LEAP off every page. No need to look for them. They will find you.
Also, CF&S syllabus and film from 1975.
All are evidence from the alleged golden years before things went from bad to worse. It's hard to read them without flinching, cringing, laughing or vomiting.
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Mike
I paid attention to the class, then more to the book, but also to the followups in the SNS teachings for years.
Remember, the foundational class was foundational.
If you don't build on that foundation, then the Big Bad Wolf doesn't have to do much huffing and puffing. If you are stuck in your first impressions of Session One, then that might be a part of why the law of believing didn't work to your satisfaction.
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So_crates
So let's review:
In order to receive the abundant life from God, we have to know:
What's available
How to receive it
What to do with it when we got it
Have our needs and wants balanced
And two things that were not mentioned in the class about getting an abundant life:
Have a bibical verses in mind, or have revelation from God
And now realize there's an application and training period.
(Neither one of the two being required of unbelievers.)
Wouldn't we have already fulfilled our training period by having lived in fear? Since fear is negative believing we should all be experts on how to operate the law.
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Mike
I think you are at a disadvantage when it comes to understanding them.
If you look at old cigarette ads or old TV shows, they push all kinds of emotional buttons also.
It is after you learn to suppress emotion that you can see the data more thoroughly and hence more clearly.
But you clearly are riding the emotion like an amusement park ride. It must be fun, but that's the hook. Like all free rides, there is a comedown price to pay.
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waysider
Nonsense. Emotions play no part in defining what have been revealed to be blatant errors.
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So_crates
Life may be unfair, but God isn't.
Are you making this stuff up as you go. It sure feels like it.
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Mike
How are you defining this promised abundant life?
I mean THEN, how did you define it.
What WERE your expectations in such a life back then?
From whom did you get these expectations? I'm guessing VPW and session one. Did you update them with the SNS tapes, like I posted a few minutes ago?
Most importantly, did you refine your Session One understanding/definition/expectations as you searched the Gospels to see what Jesus had to say about such an abundant life, beyond John10:10?
*/*/*/*
Sorry about all those questions at once.
I'd also be interested in how you define it now.
Did you eventually get it straight what kind of abundant life Jesus came for you to have? If not, are you interested in Jesus' perspective on this?
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