Fourth, how do I know you didn't edit out everything you disagreed with, leaving in only the parts you agree with? Intellectual dishonesty at its finest.
I knew when I was re-formatting it that someone would have that concern, so I doubled down to not misrepresent anything. Plus I supplied the link, the name of the thread, and the page number so the excerpts can be checked for accuracy.
I can only speak for myself. I budget because I have limited resources.
Does God have limited resources?
You are taking MY WORD "budget" way to seriously.
Look at the idea, please.
This is not EXACTLY like human budgeting, as you assume. It is only a little bit like it. You are stretching the analogy, while clearly not understanding it.
So far you've posted nothing to prove why my two instances of believing failed.
I am working on that. Actually, only one of them: the mis-addressed check story.
Meanwhile, have you had a chance to see what went wrong in MY story, the one where I was "on a mission from God" to go out WoW and my car started dying?
Here it is again, to eliminate searching:
I feel for you, because I've been there and done that myself; sometimes spectacularly.
When I was going out WoW in 1982 my car had an aluminum head that had cracked, but I got if fixed “semi-miraculously” and was off in running a cross country trip from San Diego to Ohio.
But my new head cracked in the Colorado Rockies!
I could tell, because I had to limp on a blown head for weeks prior to its fixing in San Diego, and I was now limping again.
But I was answering a call from God!
I had resisted acting on the WoW challenge for 11 years, but now finally I am giving God a year of my time and heart. I had put my business in the hands of 5 grads, with verbal promises they would give it all back to me on my return.
No cracked aluminum head was not going to stop this Ambassador for Christ! No sirree!
I started picturing in my mind the aluminum poles that hold up the huge Rock of Ages tents, and how strong that metallic bond was. I was a Physics major, and it was easy to imagine my cracked head “healing” up by God’s power. It would be so easy to work those atoms around, bring in a few needed neutrons or protons, or scoop up aluminum from the road dust…. I was into “the believing images of victory” that we all were galloping with in those days.
As I limped up each hill I’d make these mental images stronger to defy the wobbles in the my car engine’s strength. As I coasted down the next hill I’d be thanking God for that head to he healed on climbing the next hill…. and the next… and the next…
Arrrrggghhhh!! It was mentally exhausting.
It was a miracle I made it to Ohio in time, though !!!
My diagnosis was right; cracked head. I had a sick feeling when I saw the aluminum poles and how strong they looked at the big tent.
It took another 6 years before I could figure out what went wrong.
This is not EXACTLY like human budgeting, as you assume. It is only a little bit like it. You are stretching the analogy, while clearly not understanding it.
You know Samuel Longhorn Clements (not the rooster) once said the difference between the right word and the almost right word is the difference between lightning and a lightning bug.
Rather than chastising people for not understanding "budget" or "double doors" perhaps you need to crack your thesaurus and find words that better fit your concept.
This is the difference between a solid theory and a half baked theory.
This is not EXACTLY like human budgeting, as you assume. It is only a little bit like it. You are stretching the analogy, while clearly not understanding it.
You know Samuel Longhorn Clements (not the rooster) once said the difference between the right word and the almost right word is the difference between lightning and a lightning bug.
Rather than chastising people for not understanding "budget" or "double doors" perhaps you need to crack your thesaurus and find words that better fit your concept.
This is the difference between a solid theory and a half baked theory.
Well, this DoubleDoors/Budget is not yet a half baked theory. I am trying it on for size right now.
And PLEASE, forgive me for not yet posting the scriptures I promised. I got to get that done today, hopefully.
Well, this DoubleDoors/Budget is not yet a half baked theory. I am trying it on for size right now.
And PLEASE, forgive me for not yet posting the scriptures I promised. I got to get that done today, hopefully.
Don't you think that transmits a lack of respect for your audience? I mean, if you respected your audience you'd offer them something complete.
Also, you're not speaking of the idea of "two door", you're speaking of the idea of opening and closing. You're not speaking of the idea of "a budget", you're speaking of the idea of limit. Are there better words to describe opening and closing and limit?
Don't you think that transmits a lack of respect for your audience? I mean, if you respected your audience you'd offer them something complete.
Also, you're not speaking of the idea of "two door", you're speaking of the idea of opening and closing. You're not speaking of the idea of "a budget", you're speaking of the idea of limit. Are there better words to describe opening and closing and limit?
Let's get real.
Had I written it all up first, then posted it all, then someone would complain that I am trying to take over GSC, or break the bandwidth.
And how much respect do you have for me?
Why are you not paying attention to the ideas I am posting?
Have you seen what I did wrong yet, in my car trip to Ohio to go out Wow?
Also, you're not speaking of the idea of "two door", you're speaking of the idea of opening and closing. You're not speaking of the idea of "a budget", you're speaking of the idea of limit. Are there better words to describe opening and closing and limit?
If this hunch can withstand scrutiny, by people here and by me, then I agree that better nomenclature should be sought. In re-writing this I'd only use the word "budget" in a side explanation, and caution that it is only a light analogy.
If this hunch can withstand scrutiny, by people here and by me, then I agree that better nomenclature should be sought. In re-writing this I'd only use the word "budget" in a side explanation, and caution that it is only a light analogy.
Mike, your trying desperately to make wierwilles false doctrine fit with scripture and how God actually does work. You have to invent theology based ideas to make it work, altering definitions, adding new concepts to scripture like God budgets miracles to be fair to the devil.
Let's get real.
Had I written it all up first, then posted it all, then someone would complain that I am trying to take over GSC, or break the bandwidth.
And how much respect do you have for me?
Why are you not paying attention to the ideas I am posting?
Have you seen what I did wrong yet, in my car trip to Ohio to go out Wow?
27 minutes ago, Mike said:
Let's get real.
Had I written it all up first, then posted it all, then someone would complain that I am trying to take over GSC, or break the bandwidth.
You're confusing a complete idea or theory with writing an e-book to explain it.
27 minutes ago, Mike said:
And how much respect do you have for me?
As much respect as you earn.
27 minutes ago, Mike said:
Why are you not paying attention to the ideas I am posting?
Because your definition of paying attention means accepting your ideas no matter how outrageous.
I'm just trying to get you prepared for my response.
Nah, your drumming up an audience to preach VPW to as many as you can. You already think we just dont get it or weve somehow been blinded to what wierwille said.
This section is about the “Double Doors” where the adversary has to wait for the doors to open before he can “fiddle” with things in the natural realm.
The Garden of Eden, in my weak estimate, was a portion of Earth that Adam and Eve lived in. Outside the Garden the adversary was cast.Yet, we see him in the Garden with Eve due to this “equal access”
That the serpent was in the Garden is a very odd thing, seeing that the Garden was “very good.” I see the serpent’s presence as explained if you buy the idea that God’s own constructed framework must allow the devil equal access to God’s people.We see that the serpent has access in Genesis.Why?How?My hunch is the double doors idea.
So, the doors were wide open in the early portion of Genesis in the Garden for both God and the serpent to operate. Then, at the end of Eden, the doors are shut and guarded by cherubim, compared to before.
So that is roughly TWO scriptures that support this idea. They do NOT prove it, but they fit with it.
*/*/*
In Exodus
We see Moses’ rod turns into a snake and the court magicians rods do the same.Both God and the devil at work simultaneously, as both doors opened.
In the OT Naaman was healed of leprosy, and Gehazi catches leprosy.
(both doors opened)
Matt
John Baptist’s father has a wonderful angel visit announcing that his wife would conceive, then he his hit with dumbness. (both doors opened)
Matt 4
Holy Spirit on Jesus in water
Devil on Jesus in desert (both doors opened)
Matt 4
Devil tempts Jesus to feed himself
Angels bring food for Jesus
(both doors opened)
Acts
Stephen’s vision and Stephen’s stoning.
(both doors opened)
Acts
Paul, on the road to Damascus, sees and talks to Jesus
Simultaneously, Paul is blinded by the adversary.
(both doors opened)
Romans 5:20 The law was brought in so that the trespass might increase. But where sin increased, grace increased all the more,21 so that, just as sin reigned in death, so also grace might reign through righteousness to bring eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
(death reigns, then life reigns)
1 Corinthians 16
5 ¶Now I will come unto you, when I shall pass through Macedonia: for I do pass through Macedonia.
6 And it may be that I will abide, yea, and winter with you, that ye may bring me on my journey whithersoever I go.
7 For I will not see you now by the way; but I trust to tarry a while with you, if the Lord permit.
8 But I will tarry at Ephesus until Pentecost.
9 For a great door and effectual is opened unto me, and there are many adversaries. (two doors simultaneously)
2 Corinthians
Paul’s abundance of revelations
Paul’s thorn in the flesh (both doors opened)
TNDC p167
Somewhere in our thinking, many of us have erroneously embraced the idea that when God moves, peace and tranquility prevail. This concept was succinctly stated in a radio broadcast when the minister explained it thusly:
Frequently we are mixed up when it comes to defining a movement of God. We think that confusion of any sort indicates that the whole thing is of Satan. Nothing could be further from the truth. A move of God always upsets the equilibrium of established order. For a time it seems to bring chaos into orderly lives and churches. The smug, complacent, and self satisfied are tremendously disturbed. It is quoted that ‘God is not a God of confusion but of peace.’ This is true, but only in the Church will this peace be found. In the world, as well as in the ‘merely professing’ church, there is to be...
(God moves, the adversary moves)
*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*
There are a few more of these in my folder, but they need work, or are too subtle to use here.I also believe this pattern of double doors can be seen elsewhere in scripture, but have not had time to systematically search yet.
Plus I am hoping that some here may be aware of other scriptures that illustrate this fierce competition between God and the adversary.
*/*/*/*
Next, I will be processing the verses I have collected on the “budget analogy” where God limits the amount of interactions allowed when the double doors are opened.
I'm just trying to get you prepared for my response.
You forget, I've been through this a dozen times.
Soon after the two events I mentioned I stopped ABS. My twig leaders wife asked what was going on. Her answer: she handed me the Christians Should Be Prosperous booklet.
Years after the event I stated, I was a regular in the local Wendy's. One day, a woman that worked there approached some friends and I and started witnessing to us. I come to find out she was a Corps person assigned to the town.
I told her the ABS failure account. Her response: "You'll have to ask my husband about that." Needless to say, I didn't ask her husband, because I never saw her again, as she left her job at Wendy's.
It seems the Way is very good about promising this is the truth, but very bad on what to do when it's proven false by someone doing a faceplant.
This section is about the “Double Doors” where the adversary has to wait for the doors to open before he can “fiddle” with things in the natural realm.
The Garden of Eden, in my weak estimate, was a portion of Earth that Adam and Eve lived in. Outside the Garden the adversary was cast.Yet, we see him in the Garden with Eve due to this “equal access”
That the serpent was in the Garden is a very odd thing, seeing that the Garden was “very good.” I see the serpent’s presence as explained if you buy the idea that God’s own constructed framework must allow the devil equal access to God’s people.We see that the serpent has access in Genesis.Why?How?My hunch is the double doors idea.
So, the doors were wide open in the early portion of Genesis in the Garden for both God and the serpent to operate. Then, at the end of Eden, the doors are shut and guarded by cherubim, compared to before.
So that is roughly TWO scriptures that support this idea. They do NOT prove it, but they fit with it.
*/*/*
In Exodus
We see Moses’ rod turns into a snake and the court magicians rods do the same.Both God and the devil at work simultaneously, as both doors opened.
In the OT Naaman was healed of leprosy, and Gehazi catches leprosy.
(both doors opened)
Matt
John Baptist’s father has a wonderful angel visit announcing that his wife would conceive, then he his hit with dumbness. (both doors opened)
Matt 4
Holy Spirit on Jesus in water
Devil on Jesus in desert (both doors opened)
Matt 4
Devil tempts Jesus to feed himself
Angels bring food for Jesus
(both doors opened)
Acts
Stephen’s vision and Stephen’s stoning.
(both doors opened)
Acts
Paul, on the road to Damascus, sees and talks to Jesus
Simultaneously, Paul is blinded by the adversary.
(both doors opened)
Romans 5:20 The law was brought in so that the trespass might increase. But where sin increased, grace increased all the more,21 so that, just as sin reigned in death, so also grace might reign through righteousness to bring eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
(death reigns, then life reigns)
1 Corinthians 16
5 ¶Now I will come unto you, when I shall pass through Macedonia: for I do pass through Macedonia.
6 And it may be that I will abide, yea, and winter with you, that ye may bring me on my journey whithersoever I go.
7 For I will not see you now by the way; but I trust to tarry a while with you, if the Lord permit.
8 But I will tarry at Ephesus until Pentecost.
9 For a great door and effectual is opened unto me, and there are many adversaries. (two doors simultaneously)
2 Corinthians
Paul’s abundance of revelations
Paul’s thorn in the flesh
(both doors opened)
TNDC p167
Somewhere in our thinking, many of us have erroneously embraced the idea that when God moves, peace and tranquility prevail. This concept was succinctly stated in a radio broadcast when the minister explained it thusly:
Frequently we are mixed up when it comes to defining a movement of God. We think that confusion of any sort indicates that the whole thing is of Satan. Nothing could be further from the truth. A move of God always upsets the equilibrium of established order. For a time it seems to bring chaos into orderly lives and churches. The smug, complacent, and self satisfied are tremendously disturbed. It is quoted that ‘God is not a God of confusion but of peace.’ This is true, but only in the Church will this peace be found. In the world, as well as in the ‘merely professing’ church, there is to be...
(God moves, the adversary moves)
*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*
There are a few more of these in my folder, but they need work, or are too subtle to use here.I also believe this pattern of double doors can be seen elsewhere in scripture, but have not had time to systematically search yet.
Plus I am hoping that some here may be aware of other scriptures that illustrate this fierce competition between God and the adversary.
*/*/*/*
Next, I will be processing the verses I have collected on the “budget analogy” where God limits the amount of interactions allowed when the double doors are opened.
So, where's that overlap you claimed when you didn't answer this post:
On 2/28/2023 at 5:38 PM, So_crates said:
Cain killed Able, what did God do to open the door?
What did God do to allow Noah's flood to occur?
What did God do to give the devil the chance to create Sodom and
Gomorrah?
Paul would walk and his shadow would heal people, how did the devil use this door opening?
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Mike
I knew when I was re-formatting it that someone would have that concern, so I doubled down to not misrepresent anything. Plus I supplied the link, the name of the thread, and the page number so the excerpts can be checked for accuracy.
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waysider
Ask yourself this question:
"Why does anyone budget?"
I can only speak for myself. I budget because I have limited resources.
Does God have limited resources?
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Mike
You are taking MY WORD "budget" way to seriously.
Look at the idea, please.
This is not EXACTLY like human budgeting, as you assume. It is only a little bit like it. You are stretching the analogy, while clearly not understanding it.
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Mike
I am working on that. Actually, only one of them: the mis-addressed check story.
Meanwhile, have you had a chance to see what went wrong in MY story, the one where I was "on a mission from God" to go out WoW and my car started dying?
Here it is again, to eliminate searching:
I feel for you, because I've been there and done that myself; sometimes spectacularly.
When I was going out WoW in 1982 my car had an aluminum head that had cracked, but I got if fixed “semi-miraculously” and was off in running a cross country trip from San Diego to Ohio.
But my new head cracked in the Colorado Rockies!
I could tell, because I had to limp on a blown head for weeks prior to its fixing in San Diego, and I was now limping again.
But I was answering a call from God!
I had resisted acting on the WoW challenge for 11 years, but now finally I am giving God a year of my time and heart. I had put my business in the hands of 5 grads, with verbal promises they would give it all back to me on my return.
No cracked aluminum head was not going to stop this Ambassador for Christ! No sirree!
I started picturing in my mind the aluminum poles that hold up the huge Rock of Ages tents, and how strong that metallic bond was. I was a Physics major, and it was easy to imagine my cracked head “healing” up by God’s power. It would be so easy to work those atoms around, bring in a few needed neutrons or protons, or scoop up aluminum from the road dust…. I was into “the believing images of victory” that we all were galloping with in those days.
As I limped up each hill I’d make these mental images stronger to defy the wobbles in the my car engine’s strength. As I coasted down the next hill I’d be thanking God for that head to he healed on climbing the next hill…. and the next… and the next…
Arrrrggghhhh!! It was mentally exhausting.
It was a miracle I made it to Ohio in time, though !!!
My diagnosis was right; cracked head. I had a sick feeling when I saw the aluminum poles and how strong they looked at the big tent.
It took another 6 years before I could figure out what went wrong.
Can you see it?
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So_crates
You know Samuel Longhorn Clements (not the rooster) once said the difference between the right word and the almost right word is the difference between lightning and a lightning bug.
Rather than chastising people for not understanding "budget" or "double doors" perhaps you need to crack your thesaurus and find words that better fit your concept.
This is the difference between a solid theory and a half baked theory.
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waysider
Enlighten me.
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Mike
Well, this DoubleDoors/Budget is not yet a half baked theory. I am trying it on for size right now.
And PLEASE, forgive me for not yet posting the scriptures I promised. I got to get that done today, hopefully.
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Mike
Have you read the opening posts for this thread?
There I explain what I mean by budget.
It is all at aimed at limiting the adversary's power to certain "amounts" and to certain times.
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So_crates
Don't you think that transmits a lack of respect for your audience? I mean, if you respected your audience you'd offer them something complete.
Also, you're not speaking of the idea of "two door", you're speaking of the idea of opening and closing. You're not speaking of the idea of "a budget", you're speaking of the idea of limit. Are there better words to describe opening and closing and limit?
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waysider
Your scriptural basis?
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Mike
Let's get real.
Had I written it all up first, then posted it all, then someone would complain that I am trying to take over GSC, or break the bandwidth.
And how much respect do you have for me?
Why are you not paying attention to the ideas I am posting?
Have you seen what I did wrong yet, in my car trip to Ohio to go out Wow?
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Mike
That is coming, and soon.
I already leaked a few of them out.
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Mike
If this hunch can withstand scrutiny, by people here and by me, then I agree that better nomenclature should be sought. In re-writing this I'd only use the word "budget" in a side explanation, and caution that it is only a light analogy.
Edited by MikeLink to comment
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OldSkool
Mike, your trying desperately to make wierwilles false doctrine fit with scripture and how God actually does work. You have to invent theology based ideas to make it work, altering definitions, adding new concepts to scripture like God budgets miracles to be fair to the devil.
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waysider
Why would you even bring this here if you were unprepared to defend your opinion with substance.
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Mike
I am prepared.
I am just not moving as fast as you want me to.
Please be patient.
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So_crates
You're confusing a complete idea or theory with writing an e-book to explain it.
As much respect as you earn.
Because your definition of paying attention means accepting your ideas no matter how outrageous.
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So_crates
I asked a simple question requiring a simple answer, not something that would require me to play where's Waldo with possibilities.
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So_crates
No, you're talking all around the point and refusing to get to the point.
You should have started with the point.
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Mike
I'm just trying to get you prepared for my response.
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OldSkool
Nah, your drumming up an audience to preach VPW to as many as you can. You already think we just dont get it or weve somehow been blinded to what wierwille said.
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Mike
FINALLY !
This section is about the “Double Doors” where the adversary has to wait for the doors to open before he can “fiddle” with things in the natural realm.
The Garden of Eden, in my weak estimate, was a portion of Earth that Adam and Eve lived in. Outside the Garden the adversary was cast. Yet, we see him in the Garden with Eve due to this “equal access”
That the serpent was in the Garden is a very odd thing, seeing that the Garden was “very good.” I see the serpent’s presence as explained if you buy the idea that God’s own constructed framework must allow the devil equal access to God’s people. We see that the serpent has access in Genesis. Why? How? My hunch is the double doors idea.
So, the doors were wide open in the early portion of Genesis in the Garden for both God and the serpent to operate. Then, at the end of Eden, the doors are shut and guarded by cherubim, compared to before.
So that is roughly TWO scriptures that support this idea. They do NOT prove it, but they fit with it.
*/*/*
In Exodus
We see Moses’ rod turns into a snake and the court magicians rods do the same. Both God and the devil at work simultaneously, as both doors opened.
In the OT
Naaman was healed of leprosy, and Gehazi catches leprosy.
(both doors opened)
Matt
John Baptist’s father has a wonderful angel visit announcing that his wife would conceive, then he his hit with dumbness.
(both doors opened)
Matt 4
Holy Spirit on Jesus in water
Devil on Jesus in desert
(both doors opened)
Matt 4
Devil tempts Jesus to feed himself
Angels bring food for Jesus
(both doors opened)
Acts
Stephen’s vision and Stephen’s stoning.
(both doors opened)
Acts
Paul, on the road to Damascus, sees and talks to Jesus
Simultaneously, Paul is blinded by the adversary.
(both doors opened)
Romans 5:20
The law was brought in so that the trespass might increase. But where sin increased, grace increased all the more, 21 so that, just as sin reigned in death, so also grace might reign through righteousness to bring eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
(death reigns, then life reigns)
1 Corinthians 16
5 ¶Now I will come unto you, when I shall pass through Macedonia: for I do pass through Macedonia.
6 And it may be that I will abide, yea, and winter with you, that ye may bring me on my journey whithersoever I go.
7 For I will not see you now by the way; but I trust to tarry a while with you, if the Lord permit.
8 But I will tarry at Ephesus until Pentecost.
9 For a great door and effectual is opened unto me, and there are many adversaries.
(two doors simultaneously)
2 Corinthians
Paul’s abundance of revelations
Paul’s thorn in the flesh
(both doors opened)
TNDC p167
Somewhere in our thinking, many of us have erroneously embraced the idea that when God moves, peace and tranquility prevail. This concept was succinctly stated in a radio broadcast when the minister explained it thusly:
Frequently we are mixed up when it comes to defining a movement of God. We think that confusion of any sort indicates that the whole thing is of Satan. Nothing could be further from the truth. A move of God always upsets the equilibrium of established order. For a time it seems to bring chaos into orderly lives and churches. The smug, complacent, and self satisfied are tremendously disturbed. It is quoted that ‘God is not a God of confusion but of peace.’ This is true, but only in the Church will this peace be found. In the world, as well as in the ‘merely professing’ church, there is to be...
(God moves, the adversary moves)
*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*
There are a few more of these in my folder, but they need work, or are too subtle to use here. I also believe this pattern of double doors can be seen elsewhere in scripture, but have not had time to systematically search yet.
Plus I am hoping that some here may be aware of other scriptures that illustrate this fierce competition between God and the adversary.
*/*/*/*
Next, I will be processing the verses I have collected on the “budget analogy” where God limits the amount of interactions allowed when the double doors are opened.
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So_crates
You forget, I've been through this a dozen times.
Soon after the two events I mentioned I stopped ABS. My twig leaders wife asked what was going on. Her answer: she handed me the Christians Should Be Prosperous booklet.
Years after the event I stated, I was a regular in the local Wendy's. One day, a woman that worked there approached some friends and I and started witnessing to us. I come to find out she was a Corps person assigned to the town.
I told her the ABS failure account. Her response: "You'll have to ask my husband about that." Needless to say, I didn't ask her husband, because I never saw her again, as she left her job at Wendy's.
It seems the Way is very good about promising this is the truth, but very bad on what to do when it's proven false by someone doing a faceplant.
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So_crates
So, where's that overlap you claimed when you didn't answer this post:
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