Do you really have free will?

[Rocky]

We should ALL (including Mike) consider how this one applies to us.

 

[Nathan_Jr]

Accuracy. Hitting the mark dead center. The key. 
 

 

Mmmmph

 

Mmmmm-mmmph!

[Ham]

Do we really have free will..

20 years ago, I had absolutely no idea that I would be doing what I am doing today.

 

Free will?  I floated into this particular phase of existence..

 

I think.. or do I.  The free will part was a very small agreement, Along The Way.  No pun intended.

 

I showed up as a shipwreck on the shores of a community college about 12 years ago, and they were not exactly amused..  heh.

The four year college offered me shelter this year..

 

 

 

 

[Rocky]

1 hour ago, Ham said:

I showed up as a shipwreck on the shores of a community college about 12 years ago, and they were not exactly amused..  heh.

The four year college offered me shelter this year.

I have to figure you know/knew what message you were trying to get across with that post/comment. But I sure as heck can't discern what that message/idea was or may have been. By all means, please expound further. 

[Rocky]

On 8/30/2023 at 11:29 AM, Nathan_Jr said:

Accuracy. Hitting the mark dead center. The key. 
 

 

Mmmmph

 

Mmmmm-mmmph!

This too... a subject adjacent to the question of free will.

It also strikes me as somewhat bizarre that Wierwille and the Advanced class taught this phenomenon as exclusive to Christians.

All the arts depend upon telepathy to some degree, but I believe that writing offers the purest distillation. I didn’t tell you. You didn’t ask me. I never opened my mouth and you never opened yours. We’re not even in the same year together, let alone the same room … except we are together. We’re close. —Stephen King

Roorbach, Bill. Writing Life Stories (p. 7). Penguin Publishing Group. Kindle Edition. 

Edited September 1, 2023 by Rocky

[Ham]

On 9/1/2023 at 1:31 AM, Rocky said:

I have to figure you know/knew what message you were trying to get across with that post/comment. But I sure as heck can't discern what that message/idea was or may have been. By all means, please expound further. 

 Heh.. sometime I don't even know..

 

I went back to school at the local 2 year college.  Gave me a nice return to Academia.

at the time it was a good environment.  They took math and education seriously.. I went on to obtain a couple of degrees qualifying me to be able to instruct in a college venue.

I could have been one of their success stories.

When I came back, they let me teach a few classes but what I found was far less that what I left the few years before- constant infighting, no care for academic integrity.. I kind of floated up on shore.  The difference of what it was and what it had become was like day and night.

They were actively seeking instructors the year I left- the year I returned basically the welcome mat had been pulled in..

 

I had a lot of respect for one of my former instructors- first class ethically, mathematically, professionally- the administration reduced him into a babbling idiot..

It's hard to describe this in few words.. 

[Ham]

a couple of years ago they undertook a study as to why they could not retain adequate qualified faculty..

 

heh

 

at the moment they had faculty running away and screaming.. I show up with qualifications..  I feel like I got run over by the stampede.  Then they asked me if it was a good place to work at.  Would you be slightly interested in working for us?

 

What do you think the answer was..  they hired an organization to try to sort out why they were going down the tubes..

 

I gave them an honest answer. 

 

I don't think they have the capacity to "forgive" me for my reply to this day.

 

 

[Rocky]

On 8/31/2023 at 8:30 PM, Ham said:

Do we really have free will..

20 years ago, I had absolutely no idea that I would be doing what I am doing today.

 

Free will?  I floated into this particular phase of existence..

 

I think.. or do I.  The free will part was a very small agreement, Along The Way.  No pun intended.

 

I showed up as a shipwreck on the shores of a community college about 12 years ago, and they were not exactly amused..  heh.

The four year college offered me shelter this year..

 

 

 

 

Oh. Okay. I'm glad a four year college offered you shelter this year. 

[Ham]

The interview.. why are you here.. "I just kind of floated here.  I did not choose this, it chose me.."  heh

so much for freedom of will..

 

heh

 

[Ham]

Free Will..

As much as everybody here likes to disagree with Mike.. I think he has a pretty good take on Freedom of Will..

 

everybody seems to have their own set of axioms.. are they chosen, or given?  I don't know.

 

My axioms are generally simpler.  I wake up in the morning and can generally convince myself that I can still count to ten or so. 

[Ham]

Free will.  Ha.  There are a few moments of it in life..  at least that I've personally experienced.

[Ham]

I've seen a few others presented with it and turned it down flat.  Maybe that will be their only usage of it..

 

Paradox, isn't it?

 

:)

 

[Ham]

I dunno.  I think that it is over-rated.  Freedom of Will that is..

 

There are times..

 

I've chosen to lay down in front of the steam roller-  and yet it comes.  Will I do it again?  Probably.

 

Nice evening it has been here.. I am at peace.  What about you? 

 

[Rocky]

38 minutes ago, Ham said:

 I am at peace.  What about you?

Pretty much, yes. 

 

[Rocky]

1 hour ago, Ham said:

Paradox, isn't it?

Life is full of them, isn't it? 

[Ham]

Yep.

[Rocky]

Speaking of free will, this video shares some insight on why and how brands influence our choices. 

 

Edited September 24, 2023 by Rocky

[So_crates]

 

 

[Ham]

I'm trying to figure out how to reply to rocky's post.

 

Mathematics Destroys Brands.

 

I always read the labels.  I don't care what the label (brand) has to say.. show me the numbers, show me some statistics..

 

fortunately.. in the US.. the brands are .. what is the word..  forced to report at least partially honest statistics

 

[Rocky]

Perhaps now, at the start of the new year (2024), it might be worth revisiting the notion of whether and/or to what degree humans do have free will and what factors might hijack innate abilities for said free will.

I've programmed this YT to start at a particular point.

However, IF YOU ARE INTERESTED you are free to watch/listen to the entire clip. 

Years ago, I began to recognize how job and marriage stress made certain things difficult for me. It seems the influence of stress on a person may even predate one's birth. 

[Stayed Too Long]

On 4/3/2023 at 5:15 AM, waysider said:

 René Girard has entered the chat.

 

 

 

"Man is the creature who does not know what to desire, and he turns to others in order to make up his mind. We desire what others desire because we imitate their desires.

2 Timothy 3:6&7

6They are the kind who worm their way into homes and gain control over gullible women, who are loaded down with sins and are swayed by all kinds of evil desires, 7always learning but never able to come to a knowledge of the truth. 

Explanation according to https://www.bibleref.com/2-Timothy/3/2-Timothy-3-6.html

“These men are certainly targeting those who are vulnerable. The second half of this verse is constructed in Greek to show that the traits are about the same "weak women" Paul mentions. Such women are noted as having three concerns, two of which are listed in this verse. First, they were "burdened with sins." In other words, they had other sinful actions in their lives in addition to the problems brought upon them by false teachers. Second, these women were "led astray by various passions." These were likely not only referring to sexual passions, but to "various" areas of life in which weaknesses occurred.”

It is always, according to the article, gullible, horny women who possess evil desires. Do not turn to evil women and imitate them in order to make up your mind. There are many wholesome men to imitate for much better  results in your lives. 
 

I can’t image where these ideas came from…just another example of how crazy the bible can be at times. It is very difficult for me to understand which ideas in the bible to follow and which ones to throw out. How to you determine ideas to follow as Girard suggests?