Umm, perhaps, as has been mentioned before, this would be better taken up in a private topic?
[edited by moderator]
Not that any of this is any of my business, it's just that I really don't think we need another om vs. rascal thread, or a "Look how great TWI was for me! I'm oldiesman!" thread.
Most folks already know me, my name is Phil Polizotto.
>>
I don't know you and have no way to verify this information. Nor do I care to. If you want to start demanding that people disclose details about themselves, others, including information relating to sensitive issues then you need to be prepared to respond in kind and with *complete* disclosuse including names , dates and times, those present. To do anything less is being a coward.
I find it incredibly odd and totally inconsiderate that you expect people to compromise their security to accomodate your request for specific information as if you are the arbiter of what is "true and good" here at Gspot or in TWI. What has happened is that you have reached an impasse and the only way you can see out of it is to change the focus and misdirect to the fact that people keep details and identities off the baord (in many cases for good reasons). And you want to use this rather common and legitimate practice as evidence that others are cowards and gossips. That is cheap and low.
... information relating to sensitive issues then you need to be prepared to respond in kind and with *complete* disclosuse including names , dates and times, those present. To do anything less is being a coward.
Thanks Diazbro. I'm still waiting to hear from the accusers with their disclosures.
My impression is the "derail" is just about right on target though. "I had a wonderful time, believing "fixed" my problems, therefore, there are no problems". "You may have been raped or worse, but remember, you had to have gotten a little bit of good out of it". It seems way to easy to dismiss or ignore the abuse and crap if it didn't happen to you.
Seems to illustrate the point perfectly.
I remember even in the "good old days" being told that so and so "just had an axe to grind" or some such nonsense. Just ignore them, they're nuts. That it wasn't "the word" anyway, and that was what we were supposed to keep in the forefront of our thinking. People with legitimate complaints often were quietly swept aside. That was in TWI-1. Ah, the "glory days"..
I saw the limb guy give some "counsel" to a lady that had a guy in "twig" that wouldn't keep his hands off her. "What's the big problem? Why are you still so hung up on this sex thing? Maybe you oughta go get laid and lighten up"- I personally witnessed this in TWI-1- the good old days. This was said in practically a public setting. I would say he took ignoring crap in the guise of believing almost to its ultimate limit.
All this reminiscence just makes me wanna drop everything and just RUN back to "da good ole days". Ptooie.
rascal and oldiesman, fight all you want to about the thread topic, but when it comes to family members, please take it to Private Message.
Moddishwasher, thanks for the clarification. Although Rascal and her silent partner(s) are too cowardly to discuss the specifics of their accusations even privately (which I am still open to), maybe your request will be enough to deter public false accusatory conduct of this sort in the future.
quote:
... I would say he took ignoring crap in the guise of believing almost to its ultimate limit.
I'd say that was the opposite of believing... simply not taking care of the problem.
I'd say that was the opposite of believing... simply not taking care of the problem.
I agree completely. But this was the standard method of operation- unless you did something to "offend" said leader. Then things were pretty serious.
Same thing- limb guy after limb guy.. few exceptions. At least in my experience.
CHRONIC problems like this, especially in higher leadership positions, you have to ask yourself "why". No checks or balances. If you had such a wonderful time, you were one "lucky" SOB. That's the only explanation I can figure..
Mr. Hammeroni, if you stayed in twi for 20 years and didn't have love, joy, peace, and those spiritual goodies working in your life, I think you most certainly wasted your time and twi wasn't for you. Geeze, why else would one go to twig and fellowship unless it was a pleasant, profitable experience? Had to be something there of significant satisfaction to keep folks coming back for more.
Lol Oldies.....if I were you, I would earnestly wish it was false as well.
Rascal, you [snip] can't even email me privately to discuss this, to hear my side of your propaganda. [snip] You and your silent [snip] source should really move on to something else.
Don't listen to me...moddishwasher asked you not to bring up anything involving family members, and that includes your vague accusations. If you're so courageous, you and your brave source may email me privately anytime. Come on, let's hear what you have to say that's so vital.
Rascal, same here too. I think if you were a likely candidate for "da class" they'd "love" you like there's no tomorrow. "Good horsie, we luvs you, just hold still while we get out the saddle and stuff..."
I spent the next twenty some years trying to get back to the "good old days"- I now see them largely as a fabrication. The good old days never really existed. They were invented for someone else's convenience.
I tried to "fix" things too. I remember praying for folks and doing the best I could for them when leadership labelled their problems as a result of lack of believing, and treated them like grade A crap.
I remember treating people like grade A crap at times, too- and was convinced it was the godly way to handle things, God forgive me.
Oh yes.. I was at that ROA, if it's the same one you're thinking about- old Loy saying how they just can't believe to protect us because WE were so "screwed up". OUR believing, ha. Maybe God just trying to "clean out" that friggin mess, who knows.. heh heh. It was camping tents vs. hurricane force winds- maybe the Lord saying, "I'd a get a hoppin out of the stinkhole if I was you, kiddies".. heh heh.
Funny- that little "problem" was too big to ignore..
" ... if you stayed in twi for 20 years and didn't have love, joy, peace, and those spiritual goodies working in your life, I think you most certainly wasted your time and twi wasn't for you. Geeze, why else would one go to twig and fellowship unless it was a pleasant, profitable experience? Had to be something there of significant satisfaction to keep folks coming back for more."
Makes sense to me.
I dont think that we would have stayed with it, had it not been for the love in the fellowships. The joy and re-joicing with beleivers, operating in peace and harmony, being surrounded by the fruit from everyone's lives, it was great. Otherwise I can't imagine staying. Would not have made sense to stay.
It was very pleasant and profitable, for us as well as for most everyone that fellowshipped with us.
I can't imagine anyone coming back a second time, if they were not satisfied with what they experienced in our homes.
"...it was the promise of the spiritual death that awaited us if we departed that kept many of us involved."
I can't imagine, nor recall every hearing such or saying such in any fellowship that happened in a twig of mine. That junk only come from the WC, later on.
Whoever in our twig that did get the SNS tapes, would listen to them and we would ask every week if there was any good news, any events, any new thing. But that was why we rarely if ever played a SNS tape for the twig. We were hessitant to bring new people to Limb funcitons also.
I most distinctly recall while in Scotland, we made the mistake of taking new people to Gartmore a couple of Sundays. But it was terrible, it took all the following week to calm and explain everything. Those at Gartmore were friendly and helpful, but it was never anything that un-initiated folks could hear.
Any Twig Coordinator who brought that other junk into his twig, may have been making a serious mistake. As a Twig Coordinator we were to protect and build and succour those within the fellowship.
if you stayed in twi for 20 years and didn't have love, joy, peace, and those spiritual goodies working in your life, I think you most certainly wasted your time and twi wasn't for you.
I agree on one point- "TWI" was a waste of time, effort, and commitment.
There were some blessings- at the local fellowship level. My opinion- the love and effort of God-loving men and women were used as bait in an ingenious centrally controlled trap.
How many people did we "put on a good show" for that went further into the belly of the monster?
Can't begin to count. Sure, they were "blessed", got some results- but many paid dearly. Got stuck in the same trap- spending the next twenty years to get back to what it was like in our little fellowship.
"The life of the ministry is in the twig"- even ole doc knew that. I think more accurately, "the recruitment program of the ministry is in the twig". Love em like there's no tomorrow, then throw them to the wolves.. in sheeps clothing.
Most folks did not even know what hit them- me included. I listed the efforts I put forward to try to get back to the good old feeling of years gone by.. never happened. I ignored problems for over twenty years, thinking somehow that taking enough classes, studying enough stuff, and somehow "believing" just right would fix everything. Never worked, "they" provided just barely enough lousy feed to keep me coming back.
Any more, any "blessings" I have to offer are not for sale. There are people I have prayed for, and they will never know about it- results or not. They are FREE. No stinking group is gonna use it for bait.
Mr. Hamm, that very thought haunts me. How many people were lured into the belly of the beast to be deeply hurt because of me....because I *ignored* problems in twi?
We were the *front men* what people saw.....People bought OUR honesty and OUR integrety. People assumed that because WE genuinely loved God, that twi was a legitimate healthy christian organization....(I think being used this way is one of the reasons that I am so angry)
I know one precious young woman who never dreamed of what would be demanded of her by lcm when she left her sweet wholesom local fellowship to go into residence. When she refused, she was m&a and her reputation destroyed, all of her friends gone....it almost destroyed her.
We were the *front men* what people saw.....People bought OUR honesty and OUR integrety. People assumed that because WE genuinely loved God, that twi was a legitimate healthy christian organization....(I think being used this way is one of the reasons that I am so angry)
AMEN, SISTAH! That should go in the gems thread! Do you mind if I copy it over there? :)-->
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oldiesman
Gee, what a bastion of integrity.
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Steve!
Umm, perhaps, as has been mentioned before, this would be better taken up in a private topic?
[edited by moderator]
Not that any of this is any of my business, it's just that I really don't think we need another om vs. rascal thread, or a "Look how great TWI was for me! I'm oldiesman!" thread.
Edited by moddishwasherLink to comment
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rascal
True Steve, I have said all that I intend to. Sorry for the ongoing skirmish.
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oldiesman
[snip]
Steve!, this thread was not hijacked by me, but by cowards who engage in gossip and false accusations.
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Steve!
The point is NOT "who hijacked the thread". (IT ALL STARTED WHEN HE HIT ME BACK!)
The point is that it IS derailed/hijacked/whatever, and I for one would like to see it brought back on track.
If you don't mind too much.
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diazbro
OM said:
Most folks already know me, my name is Phil Polizotto.
>>
I don't know you and have no way to verify this information. Nor do I care to. If you want to start demanding that people disclose details about themselves, others, including information relating to sensitive issues then you need to be prepared to respond in kind and with *complete* disclosuse including names , dates and times, those present. To do anything less is being a coward.
I find it incredibly odd and totally inconsiderate that you expect people to compromise their security to accomodate your request for specific information as if you are the arbiter of what is "true and good" here at Gspot or in TWI. What has happened is that you have reached an impasse and the only way you can see out of it is to change the focus and misdirect to the fact that people keep details and identities off the baord (in many cases for good reasons). And you want to use this rather common and legitimate practice as evidence that others are cowards and gossips. That is cheap and low.
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oldiesman
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oldiesman
This is getting good. Unfortunately I am getting ready to retire from Greasespot today.
Let's see if the accusers will contact me privately with the information that's so important and vital to understand my time at twi.
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diazbro
OM said:
This is getting good. Unfortunately I am getting ready to retire from Greasespot today.
>>
Hilarious...
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Mod Kirk
References to family members have been deleted.
rascal and oldiesman, fight all you want to about the thread topic, but when it comes to family members, please take it to Private Message.
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excathedra
did i really miss 5 pages of a fight ?
i'm either healed or f'd up !!!!! ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
sowwy should i go read it ?
i stand ready (at attention) to be reproved
at all times
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Ham
My impression is the "derail" is just about right on target though. "I had a wonderful time, believing "fixed" my problems, therefore, there are no problems". "You may have been raped or worse, but remember, you had to have gotten a little bit of good out of it". It seems way to easy to dismiss or ignore the abuse and crap if it didn't happen to you.
Seems to illustrate the point perfectly.
I remember even in the "good old days" being told that so and so "just had an axe to grind" or some such nonsense. Just ignore them, they're nuts. That it wasn't "the word" anyway, and that was what we were supposed to keep in the forefront of our thinking. People with legitimate complaints often were quietly swept aside. That was in TWI-1. Ah, the "glory days"..
I saw the limb guy give some "counsel" to a lady that had a guy in "twig" that wouldn't keep his hands off her. "What's the big problem? Why are you still so hung up on this sex thing? Maybe you oughta go get laid and lighten up"- I personally witnessed this in TWI-1- the good old days. This was said in practically a public setting. I would say he took ignoring crap in the guise of believing almost to its ultimate limit.
All this reminiscence just makes me wanna drop everything and just RUN back to "da good ole days". Ptooie.
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oldiesman
Lack of reproof and correction=lack of believing.
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Ham
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oldiesman
Mr. Hammeroni, if you stayed in twi for 20 years and didn't have love, joy, peace, and those spiritual goodies working in your life, I think you most certainly wasted your time and twi wasn't for you. Geeze, why else would one go to twig and fellowship unless it was a pleasant, profitable experience? Had to be something there of significant satisfaction to keep folks coming back for more.
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rascal
Lol Oldies.....if I were you, I would earnestly wish it was false as well.
Back to believing.....I remember one roa where everyone was soundly reproved for our *lack of believing* concerning the weather.....
it rained.....BAD believer...bad...no blessings for you!
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rascal
profitable? no ...it was the promise of the spiritual death that awaited us if we departed that kept many of us involved.
Many of us stayed to try to help *fix* things....never dreaming that the moral/spiritual depravity was to be traced all the way back to the founder.
What a shame....we could have really benefited some people had our efforts not been hijacked by dishonest individuals.
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oldiesman
Rascal, you [snip] can't even email me privately to discuss this, to hear my side of your propaganda. [snip] You and your silent [snip] source should really move on to something else.
Don't listen to me...moddishwasher asked you not to bring up anything involving family members, and that includes your vague accusations. If you're so courageous, you and your brave source may email me privately anytime. Come on, let's hear what you have to say that's so vital.
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rascal
lol :-)
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Ham
Rascal, same here too. I think if you were a likely candidate for "da class" they'd "love" you like there's no tomorrow. "Good horsie, we luvs you, just hold still while we get out the saddle and stuff..."
I spent the next twenty some years trying to get back to the "good old days"- I now see them largely as a fabrication. The good old days never really existed. They were invented for someone else's convenience.
I tried to "fix" things too. I remember praying for folks and doing the best I could for them when leadership labelled their problems as a result of lack of believing, and treated them like grade A crap.
I remember treating people like grade A crap at times, too- and was convinced it was the godly way to handle things, God forgive me.
Oh yes.. I was at that ROA, if it's the same one you're thinking about- old Loy saying how they just can't believe to protect us because WE were so "screwed up". OUR believing, ha. Maybe God just trying to "clean out" that friggin mess, who knows.. heh heh. It was camping tents vs. hurricane force winds- maybe the Lord saying, "I'd a get a hoppin out of the stinkhole if I was you, kiddies".. heh heh.
Funny- that little "problem" was too big to ignore..
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Galen
oldiesman:
" ... if you stayed in twi for 20 years and didn't have love, joy, peace, and those spiritual goodies working in your life, I think you most certainly wasted your time and twi wasn't for you. Geeze, why else would one go to twig and fellowship unless it was a pleasant, profitable experience? Had to be something there of significant satisfaction to keep folks coming back for more."
Makes sense to me.
I dont think that we would have stayed with it, had it not been for the love in the fellowships. The joy and re-joicing with beleivers, operating in peace and harmony, being surrounded by the fruit from everyone's lives, it was great. Otherwise I can't imagine staying. Would not have made sense to stay.
It was very pleasant and profitable, for us as well as for most everyone that fellowshipped with us.
I can't imagine anyone coming back a second time, if they were not satisfied with what they experienced in our homes.
"...it was the promise of the spiritual death that awaited us if we departed that kept many of us involved."
I can't imagine, nor recall every hearing such or saying such in any fellowship that happened in a twig of mine. That junk only come from the WC, later on.
Whoever in our twig that did get the SNS tapes, would listen to them and we would ask every week if there was any good news, any events, any new thing. But that was why we rarely if ever played a SNS tape for the twig. We were hessitant to bring new people to Limb funcitons also.
I most distinctly recall while in Scotland, we made the mistake of taking new people to Gartmore a couple of Sundays. But it was terrible, it took all the following week to calm and explain everything. Those at Gartmore were friendly and helpful, but it was never anything that un-initiated folks could hear.
Any Twig Coordinator who brought that other junk into his twig, may have been making a serious mistake. As a Twig Coordinator we were to protect and build and succour those within the fellowship.
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Ham
I agree on one point- "TWI" was a waste of time, effort, and commitment.
There were some blessings- at the local fellowship level. My opinion- the love and effort of God-loving men and women were used as bait in an ingenious centrally controlled trap.
How many people did we "put on a good show" for that went further into the belly of the monster?
Can't begin to count. Sure, they were "blessed", got some results- but many paid dearly. Got stuck in the same trap- spending the next twenty years to get back to what it was like in our little fellowship.
"The life of the ministry is in the twig"- even ole doc knew that. I think more accurately, "the recruitment program of the ministry is in the twig". Love em like there's no tomorrow, then throw them to the wolves.. in sheeps clothing.
Most folks did not even know what hit them- me included. I listed the efforts I put forward to try to get back to the good old feeling of years gone by.. never happened. I ignored problems for over twenty years, thinking somehow that taking enough classes, studying enough stuff, and somehow "believing" just right would fix everything. Never worked, "they" provided just barely enough lousy feed to keep me coming back.
Any more, any "blessings" I have to offer are not for sale. There are people I have prayed for, and they will never know about it- results or not. They are FREE. No stinking group is gonna use it for bait.
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rascal
Mr. Hamm, that very thought haunts me. How many people were lured into the belly of the beast to be deeply hurt because of me....because I *ignored* problems in twi?
We were the *front men* what people saw.....People bought OUR honesty and OUR integrety. People assumed that because WE genuinely loved God, that twi was a legitimate healthy christian organization....(I think being used this way is one of the reasons that I am so angry)
I know one precious young woman who never dreamed of what would be demanded of her by lcm when she left her sweet wholesom local fellowship to go into residence. When she refused, she was m&a and her reputation destroyed, all of her friends gone....it almost destroyed her.
May God forgive us all :-(
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Belle
AMEN, SISTAH! That should go in the gems thread! Do you mind if I copy it over there?
:)-->
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