Oh, I'm sorry, I thought we were namecalling now. I didn't realize we were now engaging in a far more sophisticated form of namecalling: engineers masquerading as nutritionists edition. My mistake.
Dave, I really don't care if you read the thread or not. Once again, my self-worth is not dependent on whether you or anyone else reads threads that I start. I am not impressed with the number of posts or the number of views, as you appear to be. I don't make a point of taking a dying thread and prolonging it unnecessarily by pointing out its statistics. Do you know what I do when one of my threads is dying? Let it die.
I see you and I differ on that point. I see also that Penta water is bunk, not from failing to look at the evidence, but from looking at:
a. the evidence
b. the lack of evidence
c. the absurdity of some of your claims.
d. all of the above.
Correct answer: D.
P.S. More people believe in UFOs than ever heard of PFAL.
It's hard to take you seriously on this subject since you put so many assumptions about people in it, and accusations of posters as a whole.
Maybe if you stayed with your own topic and would not be drawn away by other things that are on your mind I could actually find some worth to the subject.
All this other stuff you bring up should be it's own topic. Please start them, if it's troubling you or just simply on your mind.
The above link is not to the thread (I don't have the time or the inclination to search for it) but to a summary of the conclusions reached by participants in the thread compiled by Raf and posted on his website (considered a nuisance by TWI )
No one who participated thought that it was entirely error; most thought that there was quite a bit of truth, some thought the errors were small and insignificant
All who participated were graduates of PFAL, some who had been in TWI for decades and had virtually memorized the class
The point of the thread was to rebut a certain GS poster who claims that PFAL is "the reissued Word of God", for all practical purposes replaces all versions of the bible, and is "god-breathed", and therefore without error.
Hey Chuck, actually what's been on my mind for the last week and a half is the 400 people that unexpectedly showed up to read some of this thread the five days after Easter. As you can see from the posts since I asked the question, seems there are lots of censors at GSC that presume they have the right to control what questions I ask and delight in inpuning my motives and intelligence for doing so.
Fact is that I wouldn't even have noticed the abnormality but for their silence in the month or so prior to that time- a brief respite from all that is hateful about public forums on the internet, where Robert's Rules of Order doesn't rule and common decency isn't all that common.
So, until I know better, I'll figure that some folks showed up that actually cared about the subject- new visitors to GSC, who probably have no intention of getting a username and password to post anything here. I had hoped for enough gracious replies to encourage them to do so but instead brought out the jerks in full force to drive them away. Just for clarification, that is not the same as saying that everyone is a jerk!
seems there are lots of censors at GSC that presume they have the right to control what questions I ask and delight in inpuning my motives and intelligence for doing so.
Aw, come on, Dave, I'm not impugning your motives at all! :)-->
Raf, we're not talking about nutrition, since neither oxygen nor water are considered nutrients. Actually the field is physical chemistry, which, like thermodynamics, deals with heat and mass transfer, chemical reaction rates, temperatures, pressures, and other such physical things that you obviously have no interest in. But they do affect your health and well-being, whether you like it or not, since every molecule of food you eat has to be combusted with oxygen, in a water environment, to do you any good at all. There are millions of foods and food additives, there is only one oxygen and one water to go with them so that they provide energy to move, think, live.
As a matter of fact, there are over 500 different hydrocarbons in gasoline, but they all must react with oxygen to move you down the road. We even invented superchargers to help get more oxygen into the combustion chamber. They won't help if you run out of fuel, but you can bet that the folks that invented them and use them are not dummies- like you seem to think all people are that buy oxygenated drinking water. Or maybe you think that an automobile engine will only burp with a supercharger on it. I suggest it will blow you off the road.
...the 400 people that unexpectedly showed up to read some of this thread the five days after Easter
There very may well have been 400 people, or one person could have checked 400 times, or anything in between. I for one check this thread every time I see a new post, whether I post or not. I counted 41 posts from Easter until the post where you made the quoted statement, not counting my own. If you, Raf, reikilady, Oldiesman, Steve! and CWF, Belle, Garth, excathedra, Mark, Bluzeman, CM, WordWolf and me (all the people who posted since Easter) each checked once per day you would have your 400 posts (14 people x 28 days @ 1 post per day = 392, but I'm rounding up :D-->), so we don't know that 400 different people viewed the thread, but it seems unlikely, especially in light of multiple posters like you, Raf, Oldies and myself.
Censors? Who censored you? Some of us questioned you, some of us used humor to make our points, some of us were just silly. Only the administrator and moderators can censor or control anything, and I don't see that any of your posts were edited.
Jerks? While you "clarified" that not everyone is a jerk, you certainly implied that anyone who didn't agree with you, or didn't take your snake-water scheme seriously, or who had a little fun, was a jerk. Leaving out the handful of people who posted just once, or who took your side, that leaves 8 - 10 people that you are calling jerks.
...the 400 people that unexpectedly showed up to read some of this thread the five days after Easter
There very may well have been 400 people, or one person could have checked 400 times, or anything in between.
Oakspear, I spent a half hour or so looking at the link on "Actual Errors" you cited. Unfortunately, the premise was developed from a strawman that supposedly said PFAL was the "God-breathed word", and such a strawman I never met in my tenure with twi in the sixties and early seventies. Everyone I ever meet knew it was not the "God-breathed" word- including V.P., and Karen, his daughter, who actually wrote the book "Power For Abundand Living"- from the transcript of the film.
Obviously, if the premise is bogus the development to knock it down is worthless- a straining about words to no profit.
The premise of this thread is that drinking water, saturated with oxygen, is beneficial to one's health (maybe even gives you a little "power for abundant living"- if you drink it). I've tried to develope that premise to the end that some folks would actually try it and see- and perhaps even give us the courtesy of reporting back what they found by doing so.
After five months two people have done so, Krysilis and oldiesman, and none have made their own that I know of (as a result of reading this thread)- numerous others, that could care less about GSC, or know nothing about it, but are known to me, have made and used the water or are interested in doing so. The advantage of the thread to me is that I don't have to repeat everything I've said here every time I talk to a new person about the subject but can give them the link so they can read it themselves if they want to.
Had raf reported that he'd bought a case of Penta Water, or made his own oxygenated water, and drank a glass every day for the past five months and noticed no difference to his health in any way, I could respect that. But all he's done is shown me what a jerk he is. That he feels the same about me makes no difference whatsoever in either of our lives. I wouldn't know who he was if I passed him on the street.
quote:
If you, Raf, reikilady, Oldiesman, Steve! and CWF, Belle, Garth, excathedra, Mark, Bluzeman, CM, WordWolf and me (all the people who posted since Easter) each checked once per day you would have your 400 posts (14 people x 28 days @ 1 post per day = 392, but I'm rounding up ), so we don't know that 400 different people viewed the thread, but it seems unlikely, especially in light of multiple posters like you, Raf, Oldies and myself.
In March there were 23 posts to this thread and 795 views, or approximately 35 views per post. But if one eliminates the 364 views in the five days after, and including, Easter, and the 3 posts during that time, the total for the month would only be 22 views per post. Those five days were abnormal for some reason- which is why I asked the question about them. Those five days work out to 121 views per post.
So far in April there have been 57 posts and 1014 views or 18 views per post. So maybe someone messed with the counters the five days after Easter but I rather doubt it, since if it was a game someone was playing, they'd most likely have continued playing it, or had played it before.
Actually, in the Open Forum, there only have been 104 threads posted to since Easter, including new ones (til yesterday), or a rate of about 3-4 threads per day even opened to post something to. Viewers don't move a thread up on the list and to the best of my knowledge a person has to sign off and sign back on in order to be counted more than once as a viewer to a thread, no matter how many times he or she may come back to it or leave it, or go between pages, etc.
The point of all this is to show that nonsense and trivia does not lead to increased participation at GSC, substance does. I don't know about the other forums here since I don't read them- and in five months I haven't found anything else on this forum that I care to post to, let alone start other threads as some kind of admission ticket into what some must consider to be a private exclusive club.
I did mis-speak when I used the word censors- I should have said "wannabe censors", those who prounounce the thread is dead, or that i'm playing God, or that they knew all this long ago and it's boring, or it's a dumb subject to begin with, etc. Had I known in December what I know now, five months later, namely that two people even tried oxygenated water in one form or another, after 464 posts and 6983 views, of which about one fifth of the posts are mine, I would have saved my breath.
But those 364 views in the five days following Easter make me want to hang on just a little longer. I mean, if just one more person reports that they actually drank oxygenated water due to the information contained on this thread my success rate would go up by 50%!
I would have thought that after you left TWI you would have given up being pompous and the "I'm just absolutely right and everyone that disagrees with me is a jerk and wrong" attitude.
I mean, if just one more person reports that they actually drank oxygenated water due to the information contained on this thread my success rate would go up by 50%!
David,
I've scanned my grocer's water section looking for oxygenated water but haven't seen any. I'm typically a tap drinker but if I find it, I'll try it.
If you're going to post a question in public, it's open to anyone to answer it and it is realistic for the person responding to expect to NOT receive a bitchy response.
If you only want David to see and answer your question, I suggest you PT him.
And you would get about as much oxygen in water using a fishtank aerator as you would blowing bubbles through a straw into it.
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Raf
Yo mama.
Oh, I'm sorry, I thought we were namecalling now. I didn't realize we were now engaging in a far more sophisticated form of namecalling: engineers masquerading as nutritionists edition. My mistake.
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Raf
On a more serious note:
Dave, I really don't care if you read the thread or not. Once again, my self-worth is not dependent on whether you or anyone else reads threads that I start. I am not impressed with the number of posts or the number of views, as you appear to be. I don't make a point of taking a dying thread and prolonging it unnecessarily by pointing out its statistics. Do you know what I do when one of my threads is dying? Let it die.
I see you and I differ on that point. I see also that Penta water is bunk, not from failing to look at the evidence, but from looking at:
a. the evidence
b. the lack of evidence
c. the absurdity of some of your claims.
d. all of the above.
Correct answer: D.
P.S. More people believe in UFOs than ever heard of PFAL.
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CM
David
It's hard to take you seriously on this subject since you put so many assumptions about people in it, and accusations of posters as a whole.
Maybe if you stayed with your own topic and would not be drawn away by other things that are on your mind I could actually find some worth to the subject.
All this other stuff you bring up should be it's own topic. Please start them, if it's troubling you or just simply on your mind.
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CM
focus danielson focus
aaaahhhhh, now show me paint the fence
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Oakspear
David:
http://www.livingepistlessociety.org/ActualErrors.pdf
The above link is not to the thread (I don't have the time or the inclination to search for it) but to a summary of the conclusions reached by participants in the thread compiled by Raf and posted on his website (considered a nuisance by TWI
)
No one who participated thought that it was entirely error; most thought that there was quite a bit of truth, some thought the errors were small and insignificant
All who participated were graduates of PFAL, some who had been in TWI for decades and had virtually memorized the class
The point of the thread was to rebut a certain GS poster who claims that PFAL is "the reissued Word of God", for all practical purposes replaces all versions of the bible, and is "god-breathed", and therefore without error.
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Raf
You can always type "Actual Errors" into the search box. But then, if you knew how to search the internet, I doubt you'd be peddling burp water.
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WordWolf
Actually, typing "Actual Errors in PFAL" in the "exact phrase"
line and "Raf" as the author brings it right up.
(I never use the non-Advanced search function.)
I missed this thread, mostly because I last checked in when it was
about water. I got everything from the first few pages back then.
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David Anderson
Hey Chuck, actually what's been on my mind for the last week and a half is the 400 people that unexpectedly showed up to read some of this thread the five days after Easter. As you can see from the posts since I asked the question, seems there are lots of censors at GSC that presume they have the right to control what questions I ask and delight in inpuning my motives and intelligence for doing so.
Fact is that I wouldn't even have noticed the abnormality but for their silence in the month or so prior to that time- a brief respite from all that is hateful about public forums on the internet, where Robert's Rules of Order doesn't rule and common decency isn't all that common.
So, until I know better, I'll figure that some folks showed up that actually cared about the subject- new visitors to GSC, who probably have no intention of getting a username and password to post anything here. I had hoped for enough gracious replies to encourage them to do so but instead brought out the jerks in full force to drive them away. Just for clarification, that is not the same as saying that everyone is a jerk!
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Raf
Aw, come on, Dave, I'm not impugning your motives at all!
:)-->
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David Anderson
Raf, we're not talking about nutrition, since neither oxygen nor water are considered nutrients. Actually the field is physical chemistry, which, like thermodynamics, deals with heat and mass transfer, chemical reaction rates, temperatures, pressures, and other such physical things that you obviously have no interest in. But they do affect your health and well-being, whether you like it or not, since every molecule of food you eat has to be combusted with oxygen, in a water environment, to do you any good at all. There are millions of foods and food additives, there is only one oxygen and one water to go with them so that they provide energy to move, think, live.
As a matter of fact, there are over 500 different hydrocarbons in gasoline, but they all must react with oxygen to move you down the road. We even invented superchargers to help get more oxygen into the combustion chamber. They won't help if you run out of fuel, but you can bet that the folks that invented them and use them are not dummies- like you seem to think all people are that buy oxygenated drinking water. Or maybe you think that an automobile engine will only burp with a supercharger on it. I suggest it will blow you off the road.
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Raf
Forgive the error.
engineers masquerading as biochemists.
Happy?
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Oakspear
David:
Your premises are slightly flawed -
There very may well have been 400 people, or one person could have checked 400 times, or anything in between. I for one check this thread every time I see a new post, whether I post or not. I counted 41 posts from Easter until the post where you made the quoted statement, not counting my own. If you, Raf, reikilady, Oldiesman, Steve! and CWF, Belle, Garth, excathedra, Mark, Bluzeman, CM, WordWolf and me (all the people who posted since Easter) each checked once per day you would have your 400 posts (14 people x 28 days @ 1 post per day = 392, but I'm rounding upCensors? Who censored you? Some of us questioned you, some of us used humor to make our points, some of us were just silly. Only the administrator and moderators can censor or control anything, and I don't see that any of your posts were edited.
Jerks? While you "clarified" that not everyone is a jerk, you certainly implied that anyone who didn't agree with you, or didn't take your snake-water scheme seriously, or who had a little fun, was a jerk. Leaving out the handful of people who posted just once, or who took your side, that leaves 8 - 10 people that you are calling jerks.
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CM
David
are you the same guy who used to sell mountain valley in arkansas?
i might know you
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Steve!
David - you call us ignorant, you call us uninformed, you call us jerks.
How many Pulitzer prizes have *you* been nominated for?
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David Anderson
Oakspear, I spent a half hour or so looking at the link on "Actual Errors" you cited. Unfortunately, the premise was developed from a strawman that supposedly said PFAL was the "God-breathed word", and such a strawman I never met in my tenure with twi in the sixties and early seventies. Everyone I ever meet knew it was not the "God-breathed" word- including V.P., and Karen, his daughter, who actually wrote the book "Power For Abundand Living"- from the transcript of the film.
Obviously, if the premise is bogus the development to knock it down is worthless- a straining about words to no profit.
The premise of this thread is that drinking water, saturated with oxygen, is beneficial to one's health (maybe even gives you a little "power for abundant living"- if you drink it). I've tried to develope that premise to the end that some folks would actually try it and see- and perhaps even give us the courtesy of reporting back what they found by doing so.
After five months two people have done so, Krysilis and oldiesman, and none have made their own that I know of (as a result of reading this thread)- numerous others, that could care less about GSC, or know nothing about it, but are known to me, have made and used the water or are interested in doing so. The advantage of the thread to me is that I don't have to repeat everything I've said here every time I talk to a new person about the subject but can give them the link so they can read it themselves if they want to.
Had raf reported that he'd bought a case of Penta Water, or made his own oxygenated water, and drank a glass every day for the past five months and noticed no difference to his health in any way, I could respect that. But all he's done is shown me what a jerk he is. That he feels the same about me makes no difference whatsoever in either of our lives. I wouldn't know who he was if I passed him on the street.
In March there were 23 posts to this thread and 795 views, or approximately 35 views per post. But if one eliminates the 364 views in the five days after, and including, Easter, and the 3 posts during that time, the total for the month would only be 22 views per post. Those five days were abnormal for some reason- which is why I asked the question about them. Those five days work out to 121 views per post.
So far in April there have been 57 posts and 1014 views or 18 views per post. So maybe someone messed with the counters the five days after Easter but I rather doubt it, since if it was a game someone was playing, they'd most likely have continued playing it, or had played it before.
Actually, in the Open Forum, there only have been 104 threads posted to since Easter, including new ones (til yesterday), or a rate of about 3-4 threads per day even opened to post something to. Viewers don't move a thread up on the list and to the best of my knowledge a person has to sign off and sign back on in order to be counted more than once as a viewer to a thread, no matter how many times he or she may come back to it or leave it, or go between pages, etc.
The point of all this is to show that nonsense and trivia does not lead to increased participation at GSC, substance does. I don't know about the other forums here since I don't read them- and in five months I haven't found anything else on this forum that I care to post to, let alone start other threads as some kind of admission ticket into what some must consider to be a private exclusive club.
I did mis-speak when I used the word censors- I should have said "wannabe censors", those who prounounce the thread is dead, or that i'm playing God, or that they knew all this long ago and it's boring, or it's a dumb subject to begin with, etc. Had I known in December what I know now, five months later, namely that two people even tried oxygenated water in one form or another, after 464 posts and 6983 views, of which about one fifth of the posts are mine, I would have saved my breath.
But those 364 views in the five days following Easter make me want to hang on just a little longer. I mean, if just one more person reports that they actually drank oxygenated water due to the information contained on this thread my success rate would go up by 50%!
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Steve!
I would have thought that after you left TWI you would have given up being pompous and the "I'm just absolutely right and everyone that disagrees with me is a jerk and wrong" attitude.
Oh, well, wishful thinking I guess.
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lovematters
David,
I've scanned my grocer's water section looking for oxygenated water but haven't seen any. I'm typically a tap drinker but if I find it, I'll try it.
How much oxygen does a fish tank aerator add?
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Raf
A very beneficial amount.
If you're a fish.
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lovematters
Is your name David?
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Steve!
If you're going to post a question in public, it's open to anyone to answer it and it is realistic for the person responding to expect to NOT receive a bitchy response.
If you only want David to see and answer your question, I suggest you PT him.
And you would get about as much oxygen in water using a fishtank aerator as you would blowing bubbles through a straw into it.
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lovematters
Thank you for your feedback, Steve!.
You are a real "bitchy" expert.
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Steve!
You're certainly welcome! I'm always ready to give some friendly advice when it's needed. I'm glad you appreciate it!
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lovematters
I'm overcome with the genuine warmth of your concern and gratitude.
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Raf
Well, you got me there. It's not. I'm now firmly back in my place. I am duly corrected.
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