Here's an interesting link from the "How Stuff Works" site, detailing in easy-to-understand terms why there most certainly is such a thing as too much oxygen. Is it harmful to breathe 100% oxygen?
What I should do at this point is write a note predicting exactly how Snake-Oil Dave will try to refute these plain, simple (and quite verifiable) facts, encrypt it, post it, wait for his inevitable self-righteous tirade, then post the decryption key just to show how transparent his lunacy really is.
But then again, why bother? I'm not trying to claim that Snickers candy bars give you "Awesum Powerz to Preedict the FUCHURE!!!!" or anything. So instead, I'll just post a couple of exercise questions for the debunkers to practice on:
1) Discuss the fallacies in the family of statements similar to "but that's LUNG oxygen, not LYMPH oxygen!"
2) Personal attacks are in no way a refutation of scientific evidence. Neither is changing the subject. Be prepared to examine the retort and give two examples of each.
Equation 20, about 3/4 down the page, would suggest to me that the (at least eventually) dissolved salts in the digestive tract would indeed force much of the oxygen, or any other gas, for that matter, out of solution. Hence, "burp".
My low estimate is not even taking into consideration the similar effects that rather ionic substance in solution, such as the fairly strong hydrochloric acid, would contribute.
Point is: most of the oxygen in the water doesn't stand a chance.
But this is just a cursory assessment- something to think about, anyway..
Then I'd consider the effect of elemental iron on said remaining oxygen.. elemental iron IS what most people get in their breakfast cereals.
How much of the oxygen is used up oxidizing said iron? Plus other elemental metals?
Plus the effect of antacids, or calcium supplements, or even calcium carbonate in the food itself. This will react with the said acid in the stomach. Not only do they produce more saline, this also produces CO2. A gas, which I will get out on a limb and suggest that possibly is far more soluble in water than oxygen- I'll have to check the Big Book to verify it though- but in any event, combined with the prolonged mixing- it likewise would displace much of the precious oxygen.
Even with this, we haven't even begun to talk about what happens to what may be left, to be subjected to assault by electrolytes and crap in the blood plasma..
David, it's hard to know whether you are frighteningly serious or just trying to perpetrate GS's longest running troll...
Jim, I'm about as serious as an icebreaker on Lake Superior in below zero temperatures trying to keep the shipping lanes open. But the ice is getting pretty thick and so the folks at port may just have to wait til spring for their precious cargo to arrive.
David, it's hard to know whether you are frighteningly serious or just trying to perpetrate GS's longest running troll...
Jim, I'm about as seriousdense as an icebreaker on Lake Superior in below zero temperatures trying to keep the shipping lanes open. But the iceB.S. is getting pretty thick and so the folks at portgullible may just have to wait til spring for their precious cargooverhyped quackwater to arrive.
Fixed.
A quick recap:
Oxy-water supposedly adds oxygen to the bloodstream, despite the fact that oxygen isn't very soluble in water, and has no real way of entering the bloodstream until the water reabsorption phase in the intestines. There is no discernible increase in blood oxygen levels detectable by pulse oximeters after drinking this stuff, but that's supposedly because all this oxygen is somehow winding up in the blood plasma instead of being attached to hemoglobin in the red blood cells. (Never mind the fact that hemoglobin carries oxygen and carbon dioxide via two different systems, and so any increase in the amount of oxygen in the plasma would be picked up by oxygen-depleted hemoglobin and raise pulse-ox levels just the same as breathing pure oxygen would. Doesn't happen.)
Carbon dioxide, the waste gas collected and exhaled, is over twenty times more soluble in water than oxygen is. If oxy-water had any beneficial effect at all, the reverse would be true twenty times over for drinking anything with dissolved carbon dioxide in it. Since people aren't dropping like flies after drinking a Coke or a beer (or several), the alleged "lymph" transport of dissolved gasses, if it even exists, must be so horribly inefficient as to render the amounts that actually reach the bloodstream to be negligible. There's no medical conspiracy to keep oxy-water suppressed. If something so simple had any sort of proveable beneficial health effect, you can bet the big soda companies would jump on it with both feet and make Oxy-Pepsi just to sell a few more supertankers of sugar water to the easily-led. (Hey, if they actually made "Pepsi Clear", they'll try anything to sell more fizz.)
Now, will it actually hurt you to drink it? Probably not. Will it actually help? Depends on how susceptible one is to the placebo effect, but so far, there's no credible science to back up the claims, and it would be extremely simple to prove if it worked. All signs point to "no".
you can bet the big soda companies would jump on it with both feet and make Oxy-Pepsi just to sell a few more supertankers of sugar water to the easily-led
I wouldn't give them any more ideas! :)-->
They'd start all the "taste" wars again..
Health food stores (don't give me flack on this one. I do like health food stores, but there are a FEW disreputable products out there..) would sell their versions of the cola with stevia or something better to sweeten them with, and use oxygen that is only derived from "natural" sources..
The FDA would get involved, striking any "medical" claims about said beverage from all existing and future labels..
OK, I am new to this thread but a couple things are catching my attention
1. I carry a Pulse oximeter with me regularly at work. When you mention O2 sat levels the thing that most people fail to take into account is the pulse rate in relation to the sats. I have had a pulse of 101 with a level as low as 63 and functioning very normally, a little hypoxic (Of course I was at 20,300 feet above sea level).
2. O2 enters the blood stream through the alveoli, O2 intake is a function of the respiratory system not the stomach or kidneys so no matter how oxygenated the water is how is it going to benefit me.
3. Whats wrong with the water I get out of the stream (after I purify it with light (UVB light), or Miox (A bleach type solution) or simple charcoal or Silver Halide?
In other words how can oxy water help me without any bull**** mixed in?
In other words how can oxy water help me without any bull**** mixed in?
Hello Outthere. Since starting this thread I've posted 112 of the 687 comments on this thread. I can't think of a thing that I can add to what I've already written that would help answer your question. As for the other 575 posts, I am powerless to eliminate the bulls**t from them so you're on your own in trying to seperate truth from lies, distortions, and out and out malice, from them. There are some insights in them but they are few and far between.
Hello Outthere. Since starting this thread I've posted 112 of the 687 comments on this thread. I can't think of a thing that I can add to what I've already written that would help answer your question.
And may I add, I can't think of a thing in his 112 posts that directly answers the question either. Bunch of bunk.
But it makes me wonder, what did the Penta people find, when they took said water, tossed in 0.10 molar hydrochloric acid, salt, pepsin, and all kinds of other junk, gently heated it to 36.67 C (or 309.82 K for you darn purists..) and stirred vigorously?
I may have posted this humorously, but really- what DID they find?
Surely they did some "real world" testing on this stuff, did they not?
Trap all the oxygen you want in the water..
If you want to get the oxygen minus the real world conditions, there is only one way I can think of doing it- run it up a vein or artery with a dull dirty needle..
I HATE doctors.
I HATE needles. I must've gotten close to a hundred shots of cortisone (or something) when I was a kid to save me from exposure to poison ivy.. I think anybody who voluntarily would stick a needle in their arm is kinda nutso..
True, I need oxygen- but I'm not gonna do this for love or money..
Well, I rolled in the stuff and swelled up like a balloon..I had such a bad reaction, I think they were afraid they were going to lose me.
If not cortisone, I think it was SOME kind of steroid. Gads. Then the poison ivy shots year after year before I went camping.. they had something in those days to reduce my susceptability to that evil stuff..
After a while, the only way they could get a needle in me was if they were successful in catching me..
My reaction to poison ivy is so extreme that I was hospitlized for it as a youngster.
There are sensitivity shots, sort of like "vaccines" that one can take..and I did. Three shots...one week apart. Whichever arm was the "winner" that week wound up in a sling for sevaral days due to pain and lack of movement. (X3)
Still....if I get any kind of breakout I need to see the doc right away for a shot in my rump followed by 20! prednisone pills. That's 20 day 1...19 day 2...18 day 3...17 day 4 etc.
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Ham
There may indeed be more scientific backing to the burp theory than meets the eye.
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Zixar
Ah, yes. The tired old "oxywater" nonsense.
Here's an interesting link from the "How Stuff Works" site, detailing in easy-to-understand terms why there most certainly is such a thing as too much oxygen. Is it harmful to breathe 100% oxygen?
What I should do at this point is write a note predicting exactly how Snake-Oil Dave will try to refute these plain, simple (and quite verifiable) facts, encrypt it, post it, wait for his inevitable self-righteous tirade, then post the decryption key just to show how transparent his lunacy really is.
But then again, why bother? I'm not trying to claim that Snickers candy bars give you "Awesum Powerz to Preedict the FUCHURE!!!!" or anything. So instead, I'll just post a couple of exercise questions for the debunkers to practice on:
1) Discuss the fallacies in the family of statements similar to "but that's LUNG oxygen, not LYMPH oxygen!"
2) Personal attacks are in no way a refutation of scientific evidence. Neither is changing the subject. Be prepared to examine the retort and give two examples of each.
Class dismissed,
Professor Zix
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Ham
A little more on the burp "theory"..
A physics or chemistry degree would help you understand this..
Equation 20, about 3/4 down the page, would suggest to me that the (at least eventually) dissolved salts in the digestive tract would indeed force much of the oxygen, or any other gas, for that matter, out of solution. Hence, "burp".
My low estimate is not even taking into consideration the similar effects that rather ionic substance in solution, such as the fairly strong hydrochloric acid, would contribute.
Point is: most of the oxygen in the water doesn't stand a chance.
But this is just a cursory assessment- something to think about, anyway..
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Jim
David, it's hard to know whether you are frighteningly serious or just trying to perpetrate GS's longest running troll...
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Ham
Then I'd consider the effect of elemental iron on said remaining oxygen.. elemental iron IS what most people get in their breakfast cereals.
How much of the oxygen is used up oxidizing said iron? Plus other elemental metals?
Plus the effect of antacids, or calcium supplements, or even calcium carbonate in the food itself. This will react with the said acid in the stomach. Not only do they produce more saline, this also produces CO2. A gas, which I will get out on a limb and suggest that possibly is far more soluble in water than oxygen- I'll have to check the Big Book to verify it though- but in any event, combined with the prolonged mixing- it likewise would displace much of the precious oxygen.
Even with this, we haven't even begun to talk about what happens to what may be left, to be subjected to assault by electrolytes and crap in the blood plasma..
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David Anderson
Jim, I'm about as serious as an icebreaker on Lake Superior in below zero temperatures trying to keep the shipping lanes open. But the ice is getting pretty thick and so the folks at port may just have to wait til spring for their precious cargo to arrive.
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Zixar
Fixed.
A quick recap:
Oxy-water supposedly adds oxygen to the bloodstream, despite the fact that oxygen isn't very soluble in water, and has no real way of entering the bloodstream until the water reabsorption phase in the intestines. There is no discernible increase in blood oxygen levels detectable by pulse oximeters after drinking this stuff, but that's supposedly because all this oxygen is somehow winding up in the blood plasma instead of being attached to hemoglobin in the red blood cells. (Never mind the fact that hemoglobin carries oxygen and carbon dioxide via two different systems, and so any increase in the amount of oxygen in the plasma would be picked up by oxygen-depleted hemoglobin and raise pulse-ox levels just the same as breathing pure oxygen would. Doesn't happen.)
Carbon dioxide, the waste gas collected and exhaled, is over twenty times more soluble in water than oxygen is. If oxy-water had any beneficial effect at all, the reverse would be true twenty times over for drinking anything with dissolved carbon dioxide in it. Since people aren't dropping like flies after drinking a Coke or a beer (or several), the alleged "lymph" transport of dissolved gasses, if it even exists, must be so horribly inefficient as to render the amounts that actually reach the bloodstream to be negligible. There's no medical conspiracy to keep oxy-water suppressed. If something so simple had any sort of proveable beneficial health effect, you can bet the big soda companies would jump on it with both feet and make Oxy-Pepsi just to sell a few more supertankers of sugar water to the easily-led. (Hey, if they actually made "Pepsi Clear", they'll try anything to sell more fizz.)
Now, will it actually hurt you to drink it? Probably not. Will it actually help? Depends on how susceptible one is to the placebo effect, but so far, there's no credible science to back up the claims, and it would be extremely simple to prove if it worked. All signs point to "no".
Caveat emptor, caveat imbibor.
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Ham
I wouldn't give them any more ideas!
:)-->
They'd start all the "taste" wars again..
Health food stores (don't give me flack on this one. I do like health food stores, but there are a FEW disreputable products out there..) would sell their versions of the cola with stevia or something better to sweeten them with, and use oxygen that is only derived from "natural" sources..
The FDA would get involved, striking any "medical" claims about said beverage from all existing and future labels..
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Tom Strange
sounds to me like it would just make you burp and fart more...
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Oakspear
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Out There
OK, I am new to this thread but a couple things are catching my attention
1. I carry a Pulse oximeter with me regularly at work. When you mention O2 sat levels the thing that most people fail to take into account is the pulse rate in relation to the sats. I have had a pulse of 101 with a level as low as 63 and functioning very normally, a little hypoxic (Of course I was at 20,300 feet above sea level).
2. O2 enters the blood stream through the alveoli, O2 intake is a function of the respiratory system not the stomach or kidneys so no matter how oxygenated the water is how is it going to benefit me.
3. Whats wrong with the water I get out of the stream (after I purify it with light (UVB light), or Miox (A bleach type solution) or simple charcoal or Silver Halide?
In other words how can oxy water help me without any bull**** mixed in?
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Tom Strange
it can't...
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David Anderson
Hello Outthere. Since starting this thread I've posted 112 of the 687 comments on this thread. I can't think of a thing that I can add to what I've already written that would help answer your question. As for the other 575 posts, I am powerless to eliminate the bulls**t from them so you're on your own in trying to seperate truth from lies, distortions, and out and out malice, from them. There are some insights in them but they are few and far between.
Best wishes,
Dave
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Oakspear
David:
I can't hold it in any more.
I love you.
I've always loved you.
Maybe it's that glint in your...er...glinty...eyes that does it for me. Maybe it's the sexy way you type "oxygenated".
I want to have your babies.
I finally had a bottle of Penta water.
That explains it
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oldiesman
Penta Water
Taste great...
Less filling...
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Raf
And may I add, I can't think of a thing in his 112 posts that directly answers the question either. Bunch of bunk.
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Ham
I may have posted this humorously, but really- what DID they find?
Surely they did some "real world" testing on this stuff, did they not?
Trap all the oxygen you want in the water..
If you want to get the oxygen minus the real world conditions, there is only one way I can think of doing it- run it up a vein or artery with a dull dirty needle..
I HATE doctors.
I HATE needles. I must've gotten close to a hundred shots of cortisone (or something) when I was a kid to save me from exposure to poison ivy.. I think anybody who voluntarily would stick a needle in their arm is kinda nutso..
True, I need oxygen- but I'm not gonna do this for love or money..
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Tom Strange
Cortisone fights poison ivy?
hmmmm... I had a cortisone shot in my shoulder when I was 16, and I'm not allergic to poison ivy... I wonder it that's why???
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Ham
Well, I rolled in the stuff and swelled up like a balloon..I had such a bad reaction, I think they were afraid they were going to lose me.
If not cortisone, I think it was SOME kind of steroid. Gads. Then the poison ivy shots year after year before I went camping.. they had something in those days to reduce my susceptability to that evil stuff..
After a while, the only way they could get a needle in me was if they were successful in catching me..
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Ham
One of my kids inherited this odd trait. I remember a time at the doctors- she hid inside of some rather intricate office furniture.
"Come out little girl, we aren't gonna hurt you.."
Right..
"you just HAVE to come out.."
Nope.
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Out There
Cortisone is great for poison Ivy, nowadays its best to use topically in like a cort-aid cream.
Back to the water, What flavors does oxygen come in?
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krys
My reaction to poison ivy is so extreme that I was hospitlized for it as a youngster.
There are sensitivity shots, sort of like "vaccines" that one can take..and I did. Three shots...one week apart. Whichever arm was the "winner" that week wound up in a sling for sevaral days due to pain and lack of movement. (X3)
Still....if I get any kind of breakout I need to see the doc right away for a shot in my rump followed by 20! prednisone pills. That's 20 day 1...19 day 2...18 day 3...17 day 4 etc.
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Jim
How come when they say "this might sting a little", it always stings *a lot*?
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David Anderson
Hey Krys, there's a better one than that in Ecclesiastes, "Wisdom is better than weapons of war, but a little evil destroys much good."
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