quote: I did not know it was a requirement that you have been in TWI to post here. I have a close friend that was and I have taken an interest in this whole TWI cult experience.
I think it is clear that it is not required to be or have been in TWI to past. It is not even required to tell the truth about who you are. Many people post anonymously. I think this has caused some problems people need to deal with. Some examples (I'll use old ones so as not to refer to anyone in the present) were the Catmandoo and Grapeape affairs back in Waydale days. However, so have the many freedoms we have in this country caused some problems. Just as not many would want to cure the problems by eliminating the freedoms, I don't think very many here would seriously advocate eliminating anonymous posting, for reasons which should be obvious.
We just have to come to our best conclusions, obvious or not, and deal with any problems as they arise.
I did not know it was a requirement that you have been in TWI to post here. I have a close friend that was and I have taken an interest in this whole TWI cult experience.
If you check my profile, I have been registered on this board coming up on two years in june.
While I also lean towards the side of caution because of nutcases on the net(which is why I post anonomysly), nut cases I would think are not long time posters but clowns who raid a board and leave. Of course this is my opinion and I may be wrong ....
Copyright 2004 by the author. All rights reserved. Posting may not be copied or reproduced by anyone, including employees and followers of The Way International, Inc.
IMF that was your quote that you re quoted; my own comments were to reaffirm that it is not required to be a current OR former TWI adherent to post here.
Copyright 2004 by the author. All rights reserved. Posting may not be copied or reproduced by anyone, including employees and followers of The Way International, Inc.
our lives as born-again believers and that quality of life we live is based on how well we walk that word in our life
>>
I take exception to this remark. Faithful christians endure hardship and tribulation.
God never guarateed an easy street for any of
his followers. The book of Job makes very clear
that we will all encounter bad winds in life (hopefully not to the extent that Job did of
course).
TWI taught that you could judge a man by his
"fruit" thus if bad things were happening they
(way leaders) quickly suggested any number of things - he wasn't abundantly sharing enough, he was out of fellowship, or (under LCM) you were "a homo" or "sympathetic to homos". Of course should any Way leader endure hardship it was concealed from the rank and file (remember VPW's eyepatch and the associated coverup ?) to keep the Way machine humming along.
A different set of rules were applied to Way leaders - they got off easy whereas the twig level people were criticized for their lack of
believing and should some misfortune come their
way it was because they had allowed the adversary to penetrate that hedge of protection.
Its difficult for me to even continue like this-I really would like to
slap the faces of some of the pr**k leaders
who said things like this about people who were
just experiencing things that happen to any of us.
What makes the christian walk a noble walk is
the courage to deal with all the BS that life
will toss at you and still come out with a steely faith. A God who promises nothing but roses in life is clearly trying to buy your
trust and friendship.
Eternal life is our reward. There is nothing in the bible which guarantees that we will live a
stress free life on earth or that the more
adherenet to gods word you are the more obvious it will be to your neighbor.
So no our quality of life in no way reflects
our situation before god. My undestanding of
the bible indicated that poor, rich, sick,
whateve are all able to participate in salvation and , furtheremore, these people
might continue to exist , in this life, as they did before at least on the surface. TWI tried
to deceive people into thinking otherwise.
Way leaders were sheltered and they controlled
any and all personal information (as they still
do) to make you think that they never had any
problems when in reality they had just as many
as any other person.
[This message was edited by diazbro on March 01, 2004 at 22:25.]
[This message was edited by diazbro on March 01, 2004 at 22:26.]
During a twig co meeting in central Fl circa 88-91, (who knows exactly where or when- been to so damn many functions), we were told that "... the Adversary has a price on our heads..." This was by top leadership A.L.
The Adversary had a bounty on our heads because we were twig cos. Now if that didn't tighten a sphincter or two to get in line or die eh? I was proud that the Adversary had a price on me head. I must have been doing something right for God eh? What a crock of ....nola. I actually beleived the Adversary was out to kill me or my family if I did not move the word. That's love eh, motivation eh?
That is curses!!!
Does anyone remember the meeting in central Fl when The MOG CM during his "Fog You" tour claimed that CG "...had herds of devil spirits stampeeding through his mind..." ?
Curses, curses, curses.
Oh the weight of such words their impact upon the soul to follow blindly upon pain of injury and or death to you or family.
All I had to do was leave such deep rooted thoughts and be done with it eh? That is a convoluted contortion TWIsted bent mind of thinking such a leaving would be easily performed. But when I did, i was labeled PoZzEzZeD. hmmm
But guess whut... it's way beyound that cursed grease spots by midnight!!!
And now I laugh at such words from that ivory tower, hmmm... may be we should call it Isengard...
Song: He can't just consider that he may be wrong. No, the ONLY way this could possibly fit is if all those who left are possessed and the ONLY reason we are still alive is because the spirit realm is covering its tracks, or whatever. Must be a lot of tracks to cover.
Song: He can't just consider that he may be wrong. No, the ONLY way this could possibly fit is if all those who left are possessed and the ONLY reason we are still alive is because the spirit realm is covering its tracks, or whatever. Must be a lot of tracks to cover.
Johniam: You read tracks well!!! But I think there are many a track that is "covered up"...
I refer you to those pesky house chores Catcup's posts
Speaking of a woman who died and the fact that she had collected porcelain angels was proclaimed to be the reason of her death. This shows the "mind set" of the death threat:
Catcup
GS Regular
posted March 22, 2004 13:59
Yes, this man still wanted to be part of The Way International.
Even after the Limb Coordinator blamed him for practically murdering his own wife because he didn't "take the lead" in his family and forbid his wife from collecting figurines...
And everyone that had been marked and avoided in that fellowship also wanted desperately to come back to TWI even after this woman's death was laid at their feet because they never "confronted" her for having angels in her home...
These people were desperate to come back to fellowship, even though at this woman's funeral, the Limb Coordinator took over the funeral contrary to the woman's mother's wishes, making a circus out of the event and treated the grieving mother like a piece of trash at her own daughter's funeral...
This group of about 5 -6 people grasped our welcome back to fellowship like drowning people reaching for anything that floats in a hurricane. Why?
Because they truly believed that a woman could physically die because she had porcelain figurines in her home, and...
Because they truly believed that they were indeed responsible for the physical death of a woman they dearly loved, and...
Because they were crushed under a ton of Way-induced guilt, and...
They were afraid of what might happen to THEM if they remained on the outside of God's perfect "household."
In other words, they were deathly afraid they would die too, if they weren't allowed back inside.
This man finally got rid of her clothing and angel collection, but still held on to several pieces of antique furniture, and the little pet dog that his wife loved so well.
But when M*rk W*ll*ce found out he kept these things, and that the stepdaughter was being babysat by her unbelieving grandmother, he was angered. W*ll*ce demanded that I require this poor man to forbid his stepdaughter from being around her grandmother.
Understanding the strong family bonds I was being asked to break and what that would mean, I asked M*rk, "What do you want me to tell him if he refuses?" To that he replied, "You tell him Who does he want next in his family to die!"
Faithful Way Corps that I was at the time, I was very torn at what I was being asked to do. I sat down with this man and told him I understand this is difficult, but this is what M*rk was asking him to do.
When I told him that M*rK W*lla*e demanded his stepdaughter never be cared for by her grandmother again, this man broke down in tears. And at this time, I too, began to cry. He told me he simply could not ask his mother in law to never see her own flesh and blood granddaughter again. This grown man shook with sobs at the thought of having to do this. He said he couldn't.
Then I had to tell him what M*rK W*ll*ce told me to tell him.
Yes, I told him. I will admit to being M*rk W*llace's wicked messenger. I did it.
I told him while crying, but I told him.
This grown man totally broke down in front of me.
And I could not take it.
I told him he would have to make a decision. But I made up my mind I would never ASK him whether or not he was going to comply. I simply didn't want to know. I felt like it was none of my business.
So I never asked again, and he never offered to tell me.
It was that night that my husband and I agreed that we could no longer do to people what The Way International was asking us to do to them. It was cruel and inhuman.
Not too long afterwards, we stopped running our fellowship. Several months after that, I made the decision to never go back to one.
This death outside The Way issue is something Craig actively and vociferously taught-- and I was present when he said before an entire auditorium of witnesses, that he wished God would give him revelation that he could "just pray and CERTAIN people would just DROP DEAD!"
People in TWI are STILL deathly afraid to leave the organization for fear that they will drop dead.
[This message was edited by Catcup on March 22, 2004 at 11:36.]
"Tear out our hearts--- and they will fatally wound you."
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Lifted Up
I think it is clear that it is not required to be or have been in TWI to past. It is not even required to tell the truth about who you are. Many people post anonymously. I think this has caused some problems people need to deal with. Some examples (I'll use old ones so as not to refer to anyone in the present) were the Catmandoo and Grapeape affairs back in Waydale days. However, so have the many freedoms we have in this country caused some problems. Just as not many would want to cure the problems by eliminating the freedoms, I don't think very many here would seriously advocate eliminating anonymous posting, for reasons which should be obvious.
We just have to come to our best conclusions, obvious or not, and deal with any problems as they arise.
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Lifted Up
Greg, I like your post. Please hang around.
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johniam
Katmandu I remember, but don't remember grapeape.
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IMF777
Lifted Up:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I did not know it was a requirement that you have been in TWI to post here. I have a close friend that was and I have taken an interest in this whole TWI cult experience.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you check my profile, I have been registered on this board coming up on two years in june.
While I also lean towards the side of caution because of nutcases on the net(which is why I post anonomysly), nut cases I would think are not long time posters but clowns who raid a board and leave. Of course this is my opinion and I may be wrong ....
Copyright 2004 by the author. All rights reserved. Posting may not be copied or reproduced by anyone, including employees and followers of The Way International, Inc.
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Lifted Up
IMF that was your quote that you re quoted; my own comments were to reaffirm that it is not required to be a current OR former TWI adherent to post here.
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IMF777
lifted up:
ok
Copyright 2004 by the author. All rights reserved. Posting may not be copied or reproduced by anyone, including employees and followers of The Way International, Inc.
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diazbro
greg said:
our lives as born-again believers and that quality of life we live is based on how well we walk that word in our life
>>
I take exception to this remark. Faithful christians endure hardship and tribulation.
God never guarateed an easy street for any of
his followers. The book of Job makes very clear
that we will all encounter bad winds in life (hopefully not to the extent that Job did of
course).
TWI taught that you could judge a man by his
"fruit" thus if bad things were happening they
(way leaders) quickly suggested any number of things - he wasn't abundantly sharing enough, he was out of fellowship, or (under LCM) you were "a homo" or "sympathetic to homos". Of course should any Way leader endure hardship it was concealed from the rank and file (remember VPW's eyepatch and the associated coverup ?) to keep the Way machine humming along.
A different set of rules were applied to Way leaders - they got off easy whereas the twig level people were criticized for their lack of
believing and should some misfortune come their
way it was because they had allowed the adversary to penetrate that hedge of protection.
Its difficult for me to even continue like this-I really would like to
slap the faces of some of the pr**k leaders
who said things like this about people who were
just experiencing things that happen to any of us.
What makes the christian walk a noble walk is
the courage to deal with all the BS that life
will toss at you and still come out with a steely faith. A God who promises nothing but roses in life is clearly trying to buy your
trust and friendship.
Eternal life is our reward. There is nothing in the bible which guarantees that we will live a
stress free life on earth or that the more
adherenet to gods word you are the more obvious it will be to your neighbor.
So no our quality of life in no way reflects
our situation before god. My undestanding of
the bible indicated that poor, rich, sick,
whateve are all able to participate in salvation and , furtheremore, these people
might continue to exist , in this life, as they did before at least on the surface. TWI tried
to deceive people into thinking otherwise.
Way leaders were sheltered and they controlled
any and all personal information (as they still
do) to make you think that they never had any
problems when in reality they had just as many
as any other person.
[This message was edited by diazbro on March 01, 2004 at 22:25.]
[This message was edited by diazbro on March 01, 2004 at 22:26.]
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vickles
Diazbro, You nailed it so perfectly...thanks so much for that. It is exactly what I believe also. I found your post very refreshing!!!!!
If you do not tell the truth about yourself you can not tell it about other people.
virginia woolfe
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TheSongRemainsTheSame
Curses, curses, curses.
During a twig co meeting in central Fl circa 88-91, (who knows exactly where or when- been to so damn many functions), we were told that "... the Adversary has a price on our heads..." This was by top leadership A.L.
The Adversary had a bounty on our heads because we were twig cos. Now if that didn't tighten a sphincter or two to get in line or die eh? I was proud that the Adversary had a price on me head. I must have been doing something right for God eh? What a crock of ....nola. I actually beleived the Adversary was out to kill me or my family if I did not move the word. That's love eh, motivation eh?
That is curses!!!
Does anyone remember the meeting in central Fl when The MOG CM during his "Fog You" tour claimed that CG "...had herds of devil spirits stampeeding through his mind..." ?
Curses, curses, curses.
Oh the weight of such words their impact upon the soul to follow blindly upon pain of injury and or death to you or family.
All I had to do was leave such deep rooted thoughts and be done with it eh? That is a convoluted contortion TWIsted bent mind of thinking such a leaving would be easily performed. But when I did, i was labeled PoZzEzZeD. hmmm
But guess whut... it's way beyound that cursed grease spots by midnight!!!
And now I laugh at such words from that ivory tower, hmmm... may be we should call it Isengard...
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johniam
Song: He can't just consider that he may be wrong. No, the ONLY way this could possibly fit is if all those who left are possessed and the ONLY reason we are still alive is because the spirit realm is covering its tracks, or whatever. Must be a lot of tracks to cover.
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TheSongRemainsTheSame
Johniam: You read tracks well!!! But I think there are many a track that is "covered up"...
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Trefor Heywood
One has to conclude that the subject of the Dealing with the Adversary class was Craig himself!
Trefor Heywood
"Cymru Am Byth!"
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Dot Matrix
Diazbro
Another fine post!
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Dot Matrix
I refer you to those pesky house chores Catcup's posts
Speaking of a woman who died and the fact that she had collected porcelain angels was proclaimed to be the reason of her death. This shows the "mind set" of the death threat:
Catcup
GS Regular
posted March 22, 2004 13:59
Yes, this man still wanted to be part of The Way International.
Even after the Limb Coordinator blamed him for practically murdering his own wife because he didn't "take the lead" in his family and forbid his wife from collecting figurines...
And everyone that had been marked and avoided in that fellowship also wanted desperately to come back to TWI even after this woman's death was laid at their feet because they never "confronted" her for having angels in her home...
These people were desperate to come back to fellowship, even though at this woman's funeral, the Limb Coordinator took over the funeral contrary to the woman's mother's wishes, making a circus out of the event and treated the grieving mother like a piece of trash at her own daughter's funeral...
This group of about 5 -6 people grasped our welcome back to fellowship like drowning people reaching for anything that floats in a hurricane. Why?
Because they truly believed that a woman could physically die because she had porcelain figurines in her home, and...
Because they truly believed that they were indeed responsible for the physical death of a woman they dearly loved, and...
Because they were crushed under a ton of Way-induced guilt, and...
They were afraid of what might happen to THEM if they remained on the outside of God's perfect "household."
In other words, they were deathly afraid they would die too, if they weren't allowed back inside.
This man finally got rid of her clothing and angel collection, but still held on to several pieces of antique furniture, and the little pet dog that his wife loved so well.
But when M*rk W*ll*ce found out he kept these things, and that the stepdaughter was being babysat by her unbelieving grandmother, he was angered. W*ll*ce demanded that I require this poor man to forbid his stepdaughter from being around her grandmother.
Understanding the strong family bonds I was being asked to break and what that would mean, I asked M*rk, "What do you want me to tell him if he refuses?" To that he replied, "You tell him Who does he want next in his family to die!"
Faithful Way Corps that I was at the time, I was very torn at what I was being asked to do. I sat down with this man and told him I understand this is difficult, but this is what M*rk was asking him to do.
When I told him that M*rK W*lla*e demanded his stepdaughter never be cared for by her grandmother again, this man broke down in tears. And at this time, I too, began to cry. He told me he simply could not ask his mother in law to never see her own flesh and blood granddaughter again. This grown man shook with sobs at the thought of having to do this. He said he couldn't.
Then I had to tell him what M*rK W*ll*ce told me to tell him.
Yes, I told him. I will admit to being M*rk W*llace's wicked messenger. I did it.
I told him while crying, but I told him.
This grown man totally broke down in front of me.
And I could not take it.
I told him he would have to make a decision. But I made up my mind I would never ASK him whether or not he was going to comply. I simply didn't want to know. I felt like it was none of my business.
So I never asked again, and he never offered to tell me.
It was that night that my husband and I agreed that we could no longer do to people what The Way International was asking us to do to them. It was cruel and inhuman.
Not too long afterwards, we stopped running our fellowship. Several months after that, I made the decision to never go back to one.
This death outside The Way issue is something Craig actively and vociferously taught-- and I was present when he said before an entire auditorium of witnesses, that he wished God would give him revelation that he could "just pray and CERTAIN people would just DROP DEAD!"
People in TWI are STILL deathly afraid to leave the organization for fear that they will drop dead.
[This message was edited by Catcup on March 22, 2004 at 11:36.]
"Tear out our hearts--- and they will fatally wound you."
Hans Scholl
Posts: 136 | From: Parma, OH | Registered: June 13, 2002
Catcup
GS Regular
posted March 22, 2004 14:24
And by the way--
That man and the entire group that was marked and avoided that we welcomed back to TWI--
They remain obedient to TWI to this day...
BECAUSE THEY ARE AFRAID THEY WILL DIE IF THEY LEAVE.
"Tear out our hearts--- and they will fatally wound you."
Hans Scholl
Posts: 136 | From: Parma, OH | Registered: June 13, 2002
Catcup
GS Regular
posted March 22, 2004 14:41
Another post script:
If you think TWI has changed since LCM left, think again. The monster M*rk W*ll*ce who demanded such a thing and made such a threat...
WAS A PAID FULL TIME MINISTER REPRESENTING THE INTERESTS OF THE WAY INTERNATIONAL
when he did this thing, AND TO MY KNOWLEDGE, HE STILL IS.
Last time I heard, he was a region coordinator.
"Tear out our hearts--- and they will fatally wound you."
Hans Scholl
http://gscafe.com/groupee/forums?q=Y&a=tpc...m=219107481&p=3
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