Haven't been following, but not only did we have to clean the limb house, we had to hitch hike over an hour to get there and then the same to get home - after dark. Single gals...sent on our way...it was our believing I guess...
Just clean houses!? Try scaping paint, cleaning the pool, yard work, watching kids and painting.
Oldies Redirection Disclaimer:
I CHOSE to be manipulated into doing these things therefore anyone who worships VP can in no way be held accountable. It was my responsibility to know the Bible well enough to spot subtle twisting of scripture by people with years of training. I'm such a lazy scum.
OM it is my personal conviction based on observation of your behavior on this and other threads, that you are the Forsaken spawn of a ditch born imp, to paraphrase the Bard. I say that because I cannot conceive that any human woman brought you into this world.
That said
CoolWaters and I were talking this AM trying to make more pieces of the puzzle fit--yeah after 20 + years we are still putting it all together----
The point came up that I was incredibly naive about Sexual matters outside of the basics--came from a strict home to a first abusive marriage with little outside contact then right to Husband two and TWI.
We both agreed that it was TWI's goal to break me down into a submissive twigite. She and I were pondering why it was so important that I become one of the downtrodden doormats of Alaskan TWI.
It finally hit us--my innocence combined with my stubborness and black & white view of morality meant they had to tiptoe around me. THey couldn't afford for me to cach even a glimmer of what was going on.
(things would have been so different if I had-- I would be doing 99 years and there would be two-three dead men, and my kids would have been safe).
I woke up when the law got involved--way too late for me and way way too late for my kids.
SO one way or another we all paid the price for those subteranean doctrines
Some like Imbus found them selves participating in situations that were explotive and soul wrenching
SOme found themselves having to look the other way
SOme found themselves always on the fringes never quite accepted.
quote:I was in the 15th corps and it was an unwritten,unspoken accecptance that having sex with the MOG was o.k.(If you could handle it)
Having sex with someone else's husband is NEVER ok. That's why it had unwritten and unspoken acceptance, cause everybody knew it was wrong. BUT THEY DID IT ANYWAY. But you see, instead of owning up to one's own actions, shifting the blame was commonplace. There had to have been a reason, and it just can't be the participants weakness of moral character. What happened to "just say no"? Thumbs up to those who did.
We learn that adultery is sinful from a very early age. We learn from our past religions, our parents, the marriages we know about and the vows expressed. All of us knew adultery was wrong, yet some engaged in it anyway.
quote:I know of two of my corps sisters that had this type of relationship with the BOT. One was an eX-hooker from N.Y and the other was well-endowed.
And so, they were too young to figure out that adultery was wrong? Too stupid or demented? That's why the victim mentality blame-the-BOT on everything propagandists must portray young females who engaged in adultery as very very young teenagers, too young to know that adultery is wrong, or too stupid, too helpless or demented, to know that adultery was wrong. They get a free pass, and voila, the entire blame goes to Wierwille and the BOT.
But NOW, and new theory has developed:
quote:This type of unspoken doctrine originated in PFAL.
This is one of the more insane theories I've heard.
The one making this claim commits adultery, doesn't accept personal responsibility for her own actions, and to add insult to injury, blames PFAL!
Perhaps you need to take a break from GS for a while. Just a suggestion, mind you. Maybe you and Mike could get together and start your own ministry while you're at it - or at least your own website.
Look up "misogynist" in the dictionary. Your picture is there.
quote:We learn that adultery is sinful from a very early age. We learn from our past religions, our parents, the marriages we know about and the vows expressed. All of us knew adultery was wrong, yet some engaged in it anyway.
you are a horse's a$$
some people grew up believing abuse was normal
some people grew up believing men of god take the place of god
quote:CoolWaters and I were talking this AM trying to make more pieces of the puzzle fit--yeah after 20 + years we are still putting it all together----
MO, blaming PFAL on blowjobs is #1 right now, but I'm sure you and Coolwaters will put something together that tops that one!
oldiesman: Imbus did take personal responsibility for her actions. She never claimed she was forced or coerced, she did it of her own free will, and she courageously admits it. The mitigating circumstance was the free-sex mindset fostered by the leadership. When the same clergyman you think has told you a hundred truths slips one lie in, your trust pushes you to accepting the lie as truth. These despicable people betrayed her trust, and that is where the true blame lies.
No, she wasn't forced to submit to that pervert's depredations. She was fooled into believing it was the right thing to do. We were all fooled, in one way or another, into doing the wrong things because of the trust we placed in the leadership, which they subsequently betrayed in the name of power, sex, money, etc. It's obvious in hindsight, but it wasn't when we were in the midst of it.
Did PFAL teach sexual promiscuity? Not as such, no. It was, however, a misused tool. Just like a hammer can pound someone's skull in just as easily as it will pound in a nail, these "leaders" used PFAL to pound their ****s into any orifice that suited them.
Imbus is innocent. In order to sin, there must be the intent to commit the transgression knowingly. Since her "spiritual leaders" had erased adultery as a transgression, she was acting in what she had been led to believe was a godly manner. The only ones God is going to punish for the incident will be the b*stards who misspoke in His name to take sexual advantage of their sister in Christ...
That is quite obvious. But not only do you not get it, you seem to intentionally not get it.
It's like when you perceive an attack on on your precious PFAL or your hero VPW, that you automatially go in to defense mode and abandon your capacity for reason and objectivity and loose what little compassion that you may have left in that stoney heart of yours.
YOu posted:
quote:But NOW, and new theory has developed:
quote:This type of unspoken doctrine originated in PFAL.
This is one of the more insane theories I've heard.
The one making this claim commits adultery, doesn't accept personal responsibility for her own actions, and to add insult to injury, blames PFAL!
Oldies, go back and read Imbus' first post again. Where is it that she denies any personal responsibility? You are conjuring that up in your mind. She freely admitted what she did and then clearly stated that "I wanted to be a spiritual women and I believed at the time it was my obligation", which among other things implies that she no longer believes that. Her post is laden with remorse and grief, but all you can see is that she "blames" your prescious PFAL. -- But did she?
No, she said she believed the mindset that led up to this "originated with PFAL", pointing to VPW's teaching that "King David could have any women in the kingdom".
That teaching, while not openly justifying adultery, was practiced by both VPW and LCM (and others) when in private circles they set theselves up as "Kings" (MOgs with special sexual needs). TWI was laden with young women who were zealous to serve God. They looked up to VPW and LCM (and other leaders) as truly spiritual and of great spiritual understanding. So it was pretty easy for VPW, LCM, et al, to make prey of them, convincing them that is was not only ok becasue of the needs of the MOG, but that they had been picked becasue they could spiritually "handle it" -- unlike others who were spiritually immature and would not understand. So it was also pretty easy to keep quiet and hidden becasue revealing this might be a "stumbling block" to those that were spiritually immature and "couldn't handle it".
Oldies, this is not an "insane theory" as you claim, where PFAL is "blamed" and those invloved simply want hugs and to be told they did nothing wrong. This stuff really happened and there are quit a few folks out there still harboring guilt and shame over this stuff, wondering how and why it happend, and trying to make sense of it. The last thing they need is some insensitive PFAL/VPW apologist butthead jerk like you pointing out their "sin" to them.
Why don't you just go away and spread your ignorance somewhere else where it will be appreciated.
Your comments and views are disgusting. You have no grasp on the mind control that was going on in TWI. What may have been lines prior to joining TWI were first greyed and then moved.
Your opinions are valued here, only so that we can establish that our current lines are correct and valid. We can look at what you say and KNOW where we DON'T want to be.
quote:Imbus is innocent. In order to sin, there must be the intent to commit the transgression knowingly. Since her "spiritual leaders" had erased adultery as a transgression, she was acting in what she had been led to believe was a godly manner. The only ones God is going to punish for the incident will be the b*stards who misspoke in His name to take sexual advantage of their sister in Christ...
Zix, this is where you (and presumably most posters on Greasespot) and I vehemently disagree. The way I see it, just because some leaders erased adultery as a trangression, doesn't give those who engage in it, a free pass. Where did you get that idea? Any biblical references? A person engaging in an activity, provided they have all their marbles, is responsible for their actions in that activity. I think some folks can't accept that and that's unfortunate.
What if certain leaders acted as though stealing was ok? Does that mean we condone stealing? You can if you choose, or you stand against it. But the bible says reprove, rebuke and exhort. If you coexist with leaders who condone it, that's your choice. Another choice is to leave.
Another choice is to reprove, rebuke and exhort, and some women did, when confronted with the temptation to commit adultery. I'm sure some still do.
As far as punishment, hopefully we can say we've all asked (and continue to ask) God to forgive us for our transgressions.
Did you know that one can accept responsibility for one's actions while STILL tracing the root cause of those actions? I can say, "I was responsible for the arrogant attitude I had when dealing with other Christians while I was in TWI" while still recognizing that arrogance is both wrong and a by-product of quite a bit of TWI teaching and behavior.
You really don't get it, because you refuse to see some glaringly obvious truths.
1. Imbus already accepted responsibility for what she did.
2. TWI wrongly taught that "every woman in the kingdom belonged to the king." That was not true in the Old Testament, it was not true of the king.
3. People in TWI TWIsted that statement to apply to the MOG and to others who could "handle it."
4. Imbus did not blame that leader for what she did. She acknowledged that it happened and asked, openly, why did she think it was okay? Why did she lower and debase herself that way? Didn't blame the leader, but blamed the twisted application of the wrong doctrine that was taught in TWI.
I don't know anything about mind control, but I do know that young people can be quite impressionable, especially when they are not in the presence of sound doctrine on these matters.
To steal a phrase, you are truly proving yourself to be the world's only living heart donor.
Oldies...it is a lie to say that *just say no* was an option.
You know it, I know it.....why you insist on trying to cover for these wolves in sheep`s clothing...I do not know....they devoured people....they used the respect that was garnered as representatives of God...as leaders whom demanded unquestioning obediance because they were teaching us the *word*...we placed our trust in them and were viley betrayed.
They screwed us literally and figuratively...
I relate yeat AGAIN....I have met two women ...both were thrown out of twi...their reputations defamed ...family and friends warned to avoid the contamination of spiritual darkness...etc for refusing to put out..life/soul destroying betrayal....one was 17 at the time and didn`t want to *do* an old man...one was a naieve young woman that went in the corpes to serve God and was offended at the suggestion of a *threesome* with the great and mighty mog.
One from vp and one from lcm.....neither story unique...as we have found out...Non compliance was NOT an option for most.....IF you wanted to serve God...IF you wanted to be spiritually mature..IF you wanted to obey the rules laid down by those whom we were taught to love and respect.
lcm and vpw used our gratitude for the introduction to the bible played on our sense of loyalty to those who had represented God and his word to us.....to manipulate ...use and cast aside when our usefullness was exhausted...and taught others by their example to do likewise....
Geeze all they had to do was love us with the love of God...tens of thousands of us...all we wanted to do was serve God and share him with others....that was hijacked and used to serve themselves...imagine...had the selfless efforts...the prayers the money...the man power been used for a Godly endeavor....tell ya...we aren`t the ONLY ones who got *screwed*.
What do you think it says about you to steadily alligne yourseves with such perversions of humanity?
JustThinking - are you reading this thread? Do you see what I mean about omPhil's tactics?
Slow to judge? Please! He HAS judged, and continues to judge. He has been very QUICK to judge - and to criticize anyone who says anything against his beloved TWI I.
quote:The way I see it, just because some leaders erased adultery as a trangression, doesn't give those who engage in it, a free pass.
She didn't get a free pass. She didn't ask for a free pass. She asked how she could ever have come to the mindset that such behavior was okay. What she needed was understanding. What she got was YOU pointing a finger, maybe picking up a couple of stones while you're at it. I'll bet you'd stitch an A on her blouse if you had the chance. Compassion? Not an ounce. Just blame, from you, as if she needed any more.
Zix, this is where you (and presumably most posters on Greasespot) and I vehemently disagree. The way I see it, just because some leaders erased adultery as a trangression, doesn't give those who engage in it, a free pass. Where did you get that idea? Any biblical references? A person engaging in an activity, provided they have all their marbles, is responsible for their actions in that activity. I think some folks can't accept that and that's unfortunate.
What if certain leaders acted as though stealing was ok? Does that mean we condone stealing? You can if you choose, or you stand against it. But the bible says reprove, rebuke and exhort. If you coexist with leaders who condone it, that's your choice. Another choice is to leave.
Another choice is to reprove, rebuke and exhort, and some women did, when confronted with the temptation to commit adultery. I'm sure some still do.
Leviticus and Numbers both differentiate between sins committed through ignorance and sins deliberately committed. The first 3 gospels also tell of those leading others astray--notably the "millstone" verses.
But there's another huge flaw with your argument. What happens if you're a good and faithful Wierwillite, and Jesus turns out to be God after all? Is it your fault you were taught wrong? Do you get a one-way nonrefundable ticket to Hell for unitarian idolatry? Wierwille sure seemed to think the Catholics were in for it for trinitarianism, but if they happen to be right...
Romans 10:13ff shows that people can't believe unless they hear, and if what they are told is wrong, how can it be THEIR fault? The teacher gets the millstone, not the child.
Now, there are some women who allegedly aided in the abuses of leadership, knowing full well of their actions. One name I've heard put forth who was supposedly pimping for Wierwille was a C***y O****d. There's a big difference in sinning through ignorance and willfully enticing another to sin.
quote:You really don't get it, because you refuse to see some glaringly obvious truths.
1. Imbus already accepted responsibility for what she did.
The way I see it, she's blaming it on something Wierwille said in PFAL, that's now being used as an excuse why some assented to the adultery. It was never ok.
quote: 2. TWI wrongly taught that "every woman in the kingdom belonged to the king." That was not true in the Old Testament, it was not true of the king.
Even if that's true (we really don't know if that's the motive in every case) it still shouldn't be used as an excuse by any participant.
quote:3. People in TWI TWIsted that statement to apply to the MOG and to others who could "handle it."
Doesn't mean anything. If people said that the MOG said to go out in the backyard and shoot your neighbor, would you do it?
quote:4. Imbus did not blame that leader for what she did. She acknowledged that it happened and asked, openly, why did she think it was okay? Why did she lower and debase herself that way? Didn't blame the leader, but blamed the twisted application of the wrong doctrine that was taught in TWI.
Again, its hard to definitively say why folks committed adultery, it obviously was a mess. But blaming PFAL isn't the answer.
This is something like saying "TWI taught that Christ was absent", which you assent to. It's a damn lie. We all know what Dr. Wierwille taught and the spirit and context in which he taught it. If you want to say we got off the deep end with Bible Worship, go ahead. But we loved Jesus in TWI, read about him all the time, knew him and prayed in his name.
But take a word, sentence or phrase out of the context in which it was presented, and twist its meaning, present it as a reason for sin... seems to be no problem for some folks.
Your comments and views are disgusting. You have no grasp on the mind control that was going on in TWI.
Pawtucket,
Blaming adultery on mind control and PFAL isn't where I'd like to be, and those views disgust me. But thanks for letting me give my opinion on this website.
quote:Romans 10:13ff shows that people can't believe unless they hear, and if what they are told is wrong, how can it be THEIR fault? The teacher gets the millstone, not the child.
Zix, you're assuming again that folks had the brains and wills of innocent children. Come on. Children are children; adults are adults. I don't think its fair or honest to put all the blame on Wierwille and the BOT. Exceptions: children, the demented, or those that were allegedly drugged and thereafter raped ( I think Excathedra is the only one I heard who falls in this category but I could be wrong).
Oldiesman, get this through your impenetrable skull, will you: SHE ACCEPTED RESPONSIBILITY FOR WHAT SHE DID.
Tracing the reasons for it does NOT abandon personal responsibility. She is not blaming PFAL. She is stating that PFAL had wrong doctrine which was further twisted by self-serving "ministers" who somehow convinced her that there was nothing wrong with that behavior - a position she now knows was wrong and for which she feels tremendous guilt WITHOUT your finger-pointing and heartless accusations. She knew full well what she did without you picking up stones waiting for the word "go." That's the part you're not getting. "Oh, she's blaming PFAL for what she did." She's doing no such thing. She's blaming PFAL for what she THOUGHT, which is fair game. But without your help, she already blamed herself for what she did, thankyouverymuch.
You're being a heartless idiot, Oldiesman. The scorn you're receiving on this thread was earned by your heartlessness and you're earning interest on it with your stubbornness.
I repeat: She already has an Accuser, Oldiesman. She doesn't need you.
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Haven't been following, but not only did we have to clean the limb house, we had to hitch hike over an hour to get there and then the same to get home - after dark. Single gals...sent on our way...it was our believing I guess...
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JustThinking
Just clean houses!? Try scaping paint, cleaning the pool, yard work, watching kids and painting.
Oldies Redirection Disclaimer:
I CHOSE to be manipulated into doing these things therefore anyone who worships VP can in no way be held accountable. It was my responsibility to know the Bible well enough to spot subtle twisting of scripture by people with years of training. I'm such a lazy scum.
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templelady
OM it is my personal conviction based on observation of your behavior on this and other threads, that you are the Forsaken spawn of a ditch born imp, to paraphrase the Bard. I say that because I cannot conceive that any human woman brought you into this world.
That said
CoolWaters and I were talking this AM trying to make more pieces of the puzzle fit--yeah after 20 + years we are still putting it all together----
The point came up that I was incredibly naive about Sexual matters outside of the basics--came from a strict home to a first abusive marriage with little outside contact then right to Husband two and TWI.
We both agreed that it was TWI's goal to break me down into a submissive twigite. She and I were pondering why it was so important that I become one of the downtrodden doormats of Alaskan TWI.
It finally hit us--my innocence combined with my stubborness and black & white view of morality meant they had to tiptoe around me. THey couldn't afford for me to cach even a glimmer of what was going on.
(things would have been so different if I had-- I would be doing 99 years and there would be two-three dead men, and my kids would have been safe).
I woke up when the law got involved--way too late for me and way way too late for my kids.
SO one way or another we all paid the price for those subteranean doctrines
Some like Imbus found them selves participating in situations that were explotive and soul wrenching
SOme found themselves having to look the other way
SOme found themselves always on the fringes never quite accepted.
SOme found themselves part of the problem
SOme found themselvs seeking to be the problem
But we all suffered from the same taint
"a little yeast leaveneth the whole Lump"
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oldiesman
We learn that adultery is sinful from a very early age. We learn from our past religions, our parents, the marriages we know about and the vows expressed. All of us knew adultery was wrong, yet some engaged in it anyway.
And so, they were too young to figure out that adultery was wrong? Too stupid or demented? That's why the victim mentality blame-the-BOT on everything propagandists must portray young females who engaged in adultery as very very young teenagers, too young to know that adultery is wrong, or too stupid, too helpless or demented, to know that adultery was wrong. They get a free pass, and voila, the entire blame goes to Wierwille and the BOT.
But NOW, and new theory has developed:
This is one of the more insane theories I've heard.
The one making this claim commits adultery, doesn't accept personal responsibility for her own actions, and to add insult to injury, blames PFAL!
And get's HUGS at Greasespot Cafe!
I guess I just don't get it.
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Hope R.
No, Oldies, you don't get it at all.
Perhaps you need to take a break from GS for a while. Just a suggestion, mind you. Maybe you and Mike could get together and start your own ministry while you're at it - or at least your own website.
Look up "misogynist" in the dictionary. Your picture is there.
(((((((((((HUGS)))))))))))))))
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oldiesman
Hope, are you ok?
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excathedra
some people grew up believing abuse was normal
some people grew up believing men of god take the place of god
some people grew up..... whatever whatever
oldiesman why don't you grow up
or maybe read a book or something
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oldiesman
MO, blaming PFAL on blowjobs is #1 right now, but I'm sure you and Coolwaters will put something together that tops that one!
hhahahha ha ha ha
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excathedra
oh shut up
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Tom Strange
OM, you're a total idiot.
I'll not post what I really think of you because it will just come out as **** *** ****** ******** ****** ****** *****!
You have no clue. Quit lying to yourself and just stay out of these matters.
You do nothing to impart healing or understanding.
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Zixar
oldiesman: Imbus did take personal responsibility for her actions. She never claimed she was forced or coerced, she did it of her own free will, and she courageously admits it. The mitigating circumstance was the free-sex mindset fostered by the leadership. When the same clergyman you think has told you a hundred truths slips one lie in, your trust pushes you to accepting the lie as truth. These despicable people betrayed her trust, and that is where the true blame lies.
No, she wasn't forced to submit to that pervert's depredations. She was fooled into believing it was the right thing to do. We were all fooled, in one way or another, into doing the wrong things because of the trust we placed in the leadership, which they subsequently betrayed in the name of power, sex, money, etc. It's obvious in hindsight, but it wasn't when we were in the midst of it.
Did PFAL teach sexual promiscuity? Not as such, no. It was, however, a misused tool. Just like a hammer can pound someone's skull in just as easily as it will pound in a nail, these "leaders" used PFAL to pound their ****s into any orifice that suited them.
Imbus is innocent. In order to sin, there must be the intent to commit the transgression knowingly. Since her "spiritual leaders" had erased adultery as a transgression, she was acting in what she had been led to believe was a godly manner. The only ones God is going to punish for the incident will be the b*stards who misspoke in His name to take sexual advantage of their sister in Christ...
...and those who stand up for them.
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Goey
Posted By Oldiesman
That is quite obvious. But not only do you not get it, you seem to intentionally not get it.
It's like when you perceive an attack on on your precious PFAL or your hero VPW, that you automatially go in to defense mode and abandon your capacity for reason and objectivity and loose what little compassion that you may have left in that stoney heart of yours.
YOu posted:
Oldies, go back and read Imbus' first post again. Where is it that she denies any personal responsibility? You are conjuring that up in your mind. She freely admitted what she did and then clearly stated that "I wanted to be a spiritual women and I believed at the time it was my obligation", which among other things implies that she no longer believes that. Her post is laden with remorse and grief, but all you can see is that she "blames" your prescious PFAL. -- But did she?
No, she said she believed the mindset that led up to this "originated with PFAL", pointing to VPW's teaching that "King David could have any women in the kingdom".
That teaching, while not openly justifying adultery, was practiced by both VPW and LCM (and others) when in private circles they set theselves up as "Kings" (MOgs with special sexual needs). TWI was laden with young women who were zealous to serve God. They looked up to VPW and LCM (and other leaders) as truly spiritual and of great spiritual understanding. So it was pretty easy for VPW, LCM, et al, to make prey of them, convincing them that is was not only ok becasue of the needs of the MOG, but that they had been picked becasue they could spiritually "handle it" -- unlike others who were spiritually immature and would not understand. So it was also pretty easy to keep quiet and hidden becasue revealing this might be a "stumbling block" to those that were spiritually immature and "couldn't handle it".
Oldies, this is not an "insane theory" as you claim, where PFAL is "blamed" and those invloved simply want hugs and to be told they did nothing wrong. This stuff really happened and there are quit a few folks out there still harboring guilt and shame over this stuff, wondering how and why it happend, and trying to make sense of it. The last thing they need is some insensitive PFAL/VPW apologist butthead jerk like you pointing out their "sin" to them.
Why don't you just go away and spread your ignorance somewhere else where it will be appreciated.
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pawtucket
Oldiesman,
Your comments and views are disgusting. You have no grasp on the mind control that was going on in TWI. What may have been lines prior to joining TWI were first greyed and then moved.
Your opinions are valued here, only so that we can establish that our current lines are correct and valid. We can look at what you say and KNOW where we DON'T want to be.
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oldiesman
Zix, this is where you (and presumably most posters on Greasespot) and I vehemently disagree. The way I see it, just because some leaders erased adultery as a trangression, doesn't give those who engage in it, a free pass. Where did you get that idea? Any biblical references? A person engaging in an activity, provided they have all their marbles, is responsible for their actions in that activity. I think some folks can't accept that and that's unfortunate.
What if certain leaders acted as though stealing was ok? Does that mean we condone stealing? You can if you choose, or you stand against it. But the bible says reprove, rebuke and exhort. If you coexist with leaders who condone it, that's your choice. Another choice is to leave.
Another choice is to reprove, rebuke and exhort, and some women did, when confronted with the temptation to commit adultery. I'm sure some still do.
As far as punishment, hopefully we can say we've all asked (and continue to ask) God to forgive us for our transgressions.
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Raf
OM,
She accepted responsibility.
Did you know that one can accept responsibility for one's actions while STILL tracing the root cause of those actions? I can say, "I was responsible for the arrogant attitude I had when dealing with other Christians while I was in TWI" while still recognizing that arrogance is both wrong and a by-product of quite a bit of TWI teaching and behavior.
You really don't get it, because you refuse to see some glaringly obvious truths.
1. Imbus already accepted responsibility for what she did.
2. TWI wrongly taught that "every woman in the kingdom belonged to the king." That was not true in the Old Testament, it was not true of the king.
3. People in TWI TWIsted that statement to apply to the MOG and to others who could "handle it."
4. Imbus did not blame that leader for what she did. She acknowledged that it happened and asked, openly, why did she think it was okay? Why did she lower and debase herself that way? Didn't blame the leader, but blamed the twisted application of the wrong doctrine that was taught in TWI.
I don't know anything about mind control, but I do know that young people can be quite impressionable, especially when they are not in the presence of sound doctrine on these matters.
To steal a phrase, you are truly proving yourself to be the world's only living heart donor.
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Steve!
OM CERTAINLY couldn't be a brain donor - you can't give what you don't have.
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rascal
Oldies...it is a lie to say that *just say no* was an option.
You know it, I know it.....why you insist on trying to cover for these wolves in sheep`s clothing...I do not know....they devoured people....they used the respect that was garnered as representatives of God...as leaders whom demanded unquestioning obediance because they were teaching us the *word*...we placed our trust in them and were viley betrayed.
They screwed us literally and figuratively...
I relate yeat AGAIN....I have met two women ...both were thrown out of twi...their reputations defamed ...family and friends warned to avoid the contamination of spiritual darkness...etc for refusing to put out..life/soul destroying betrayal....one was 17 at the time and didn`t want to *do* an old man...one was a naieve young woman that went in the corpes to serve God and was offended at the suggestion of a *threesome* with the great and mighty mog.
One from vp and one from lcm.....neither story unique...as we have found out...Non compliance was NOT an option for most.....IF you wanted to serve God...IF you wanted to be spiritually mature..IF you wanted to obey the rules laid down by those whom we were taught to love and respect.
lcm and vpw used our gratitude for the introduction to the bible played on our sense of loyalty to those who had represented God and his word to us.....to manipulate ...use and cast aside when our usefullness was exhausted...and taught others by their example to do likewise....
Geeze all they had to do was love us with the love of God...tens of thousands of us...all we wanted to do was serve God and share him with others....that was hijacked and used to serve themselves...imagine...had the selfless efforts...the prayers the money...the man power been used for a Godly endeavor....tell ya...we aren`t the ONLY ones who got *screwed*.
What do you think it says about you to steadily alligne yourseves with such perversions of humanity?
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Steve!
JustThinking - are you reading this thread? Do you see what I mean about omPhil's tactics?
Slow to judge? Please! He HAS judged, and continues to judge. He has been very QUICK to judge - and to criticize anyone who says anything against his beloved TWI I.
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Raf
She didn't get a free pass. She didn't ask for a free pass. She asked how she could ever have come to the mindset that such behavior was okay. What she needed was understanding. What she got was YOU pointing a finger, maybe picking up a couple of stones while you're at it. I'll bet you'd stitch an A on her blouse if you had the chance. Compassion? Not an ounce. Just blame, from you, as if she needed any more.
Pitiful.
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Zixar
But there's another huge flaw with your argument. What happens if you're a good and faithful Wierwillite, and Jesus turns out to be God after all? Is it your fault you were taught wrong? Do you get a one-way nonrefundable ticket to Hell for unitarian idolatry? Wierwille sure seemed to think the Catholics were in for it for trinitarianism, but if they happen to be right...
Romans 10:13ff shows that people can't believe unless they hear, and if what they are told is wrong, how can it be THEIR fault? The teacher gets the millstone, not the child.
Now, there are some women who allegedly aided in the abuses of leadership, knowing full well of their actions. One name I've heard put forth who was supposedly pimping for Wierwille was a C***y O****d. There's a big difference in sinning through ignorance and willfully enticing another to sin.
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oldiesman
Raf:
The way I see it, she's blaming it on something Wierwille said in PFAL, that's now being used as an excuse why some assented to the adultery. It was never ok.
Even if that's true (we really don't know if that's the motive in every case) it still shouldn't be used as an excuse by any participant.
Doesn't mean anything. If people said that the MOG said to go out in the backyard and shoot your neighbor, would you do it?Again, its hard to definitively say why folks committed adultery, it obviously was a mess. But blaming PFAL isn't the answer.
This is something like saying "TWI taught that Christ was absent", which you assent to. It's a damn lie. We all know what Dr. Wierwille taught and the spirit and context in which he taught it. If you want to say we got off the deep end with Bible Worship, go ahead. But we loved Jesus in TWI, read about him all the time, knew him and prayed in his name.
But take a word, sentence or phrase out of the context in which it was presented, and twist its meaning, present it as a reason for sin... seems to be no problem for some folks.
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oldiesman
Pawtucket,
Blaming adultery on mind control and PFAL isn't where I'd like to be, and those views disgust me. But thanks for letting me give my opinion on this website.
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oldiesman
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Raf
Oldiesman, get this through your impenetrable skull, will you: SHE ACCEPTED RESPONSIBILITY FOR WHAT SHE DID.
Tracing the reasons for it does NOT abandon personal responsibility. She is not blaming PFAL. She is stating that PFAL had wrong doctrine which was further twisted by self-serving "ministers" who somehow convinced her that there was nothing wrong with that behavior - a position she now knows was wrong and for which she feels tremendous guilt WITHOUT your finger-pointing and heartless accusations. She knew full well what she did without you picking up stones waiting for the word "go." That's the part you're not getting. "Oh, she's blaming PFAL for what she did." She's doing no such thing. She's blaming PFAL for what she THOUGHT, which is fair game. But without your help, she already blamed herself for what she did, thankyouverymuch.
You're being a heartless idiot, Oldiesman. The scorn you're receiving on this thread was earned by your heartlessness and you're earning interest on it with your stubbornness.
I repeat: She already has an Accuser, Oldiesman. She doesn't need you.
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