I do have a first-hand experience but with a twist. A person in our twig was healed of cancer by a local, well-known rev. Let's skip the name so it doesn't look like I'm promoting him. (I was the TC at the time so knew about the illness, etc.) Follow up X-rays showed a complete, 100% healing. One visit it's ugly, next visit 2 months later and it's gone. Completely clean.
BUT...BUT... here's where it gets good. The minister who healed him was actually on his way out the door to an offshoot! It wasn't a month before he was gone. So does TWI get the credit? His heart was NOT with TWI and he was just waiting to get his moving arrangements in place.
They didn't want to publicize this one as it gave credit to a guy they were saying was possessed. Talk about a tough one for them. "He's possessed like a new boot in hell" they said. (What does that mean anyway?!) It was kind of sad to watch them squirm over it. They let the story die down because we couldn't mention..."him."
I actually knew one of the supposed "miracle" recipients - someone who was supposedly "blind" and then was ministered to and GLORY!, she could now see.
Funny thing was, when I asked her about this dramatic event in her life, she was really vague about it. She actually acted rather put out by my asking and sort of gave me the "bum's rush" out the door (I think we were at "The Rock" at the time). My suspicions are that the "healing" was somewhat less miraculous than it was billed.
Personally I'm now pretty skeptical about any event where the Almighty supposedly suspends the laws of physics so as to accomodate the admittedly unworthy.
But then, who am I to question the actions of ALMIGHTY GOD? If someone says He did it, it must be true, right?
VeePee said at the Advanced Class 75 at Emporia that "no plant rolled up in paper and smoked could kill me!" Or something like that. I guess he wasn't afraid of the shorty Kools. I was thrilled to hear him say that, because I could then smoke for the next 25 yrs or so and it wouldn't kill me either!!
In 1975 I led a blind guy by the arm up to talk to veepee. He asked veepee to minister healing to him, he was really excited! Veepee told him to "take the class and he would receive his eyesight during the class". I heard him with my own ears. The guy took the class, did NOT get healed, and died several months later...stick that in your pipe and smoke it Mike.
In 1976 at the last ROA in Shelby co. fairgrounds I think.
Any way my daughter and I were walking to our tent when we saw a small crowd of people surrouding a man in a wheelchair so we went to see what was going on and there was a well known Rev. Gerald W. talking to the man about healing and the man who's arms, hands, and leg were all shrivelled up, his hans were all twisted and his fingers looked like claws. He told the Rev that he would give anything if his arms and hands could be healed so the Rev. ministered to him right there and right before our eye's we saw the healing. It looked like blowing a balloon up, the hands just unshrivelled the fingers and arms puffed out like normal and the man started crying and waving his hands in the air and praising God and all I could think of was how did he do that? It must be a trick or something but I touched his hands and arms and they were real. I thought maybe he had arm and hand shaped balloons covering him and was blown up and unshriveled when he was prayed for or something but no it was the real thing. I saw this first hand as did my daughter
we still talk about it to this day. Any comments? BTW I've heard people say they were healed of headaches, stomache pain, different things that you can't really prove unless that person was telling the truth. I know that there were times in my life that I was ministered to by REV. Heavy Revey and I claimed healing just to get him or her off my back, but I wasn't healed of Jack $h!t.
quote: Veepee told him to "take the class and he would receive his eyesight during the class". I heard him with my own ears. The guy took the class, did NOT get healed.
And this is a prime example of veracity, validity, and integrity. Or rather the LACK thereof.
In 1975 I led a blind guy by the arm up to talk to veepee. He asked veepee to minister healing to him, he was really excited! Veepee told him to "take the class and he would receive his eyesight during the class". I heard him with my own ears. The guy took the class, did NOT get healed, and died several months later...stick that in your pipe and smoke it Mike.
That's very, VERY interesting.
I've been suspecting the Jubbalpore incident was either made-up, or lifted from
someone else's account. That's the one where the only proof was vpw tells me
so. For those of you blanking on it, we spent 3-4 minutes on it in pfal.
That's where vpw's on a train, getting ready to leave town, and an UNBELIEVER
comes up to him out of the blue and requests healing for his arm,
"BUT I DO NOT BELIEVE IN YOUR JESUS." (Remember NOW, right?) So vpw immediately
prays and there's an instant miracle of healing, and the guy's waying his healed
arm, jumping up and down, and vpw says "thank God you were healed, in the name
of Jesus Christ", just as the train begins pulling out in a nice dramatic exit.
So, a miracle of healing was good enough for an unbeliever, when there were no
witnesses, long before pfal was ever on the drawing-board......
...But years later, when there's witnesses, healing is NOT made available for
a Christian who TAKES THE CLASS, even, at vpw's direct instruction, (not even
slower, gradual healing), but instead, the guy dies. What possible reason could
there be for this guy to not get his healing when the guy in Jubbalpore
supposedly got HIS?
(Don't tell me, let me guess.
A) First of all, let's call Uncle H a liar.
B) Second of all, let's ridicule the question.
C) Third of all, and most important, blame the Christian who needed and wanted the
deliverance, who had his needs and his wants parallel, who knew what was available, how
to receive it, and what to do with it after he gaught it, who knew that God's ability
quote:In 1976 at the last ROA in Shelby co. fairgrounds I think.
Any way my daughter and I were walking to our tent when we saw a small crowd of people surrouding a man in a wheelchair so we went to see what was going on and there was a well known Rev. Gerald W. talking to the man about healing and the man who's arms, hands, and leg were all shrivelled up, his hans were all twisted and his fingers looked like claws. He told the Rev that he would give anything if his arms and hands could be healed so the Rev. ministered to him right there and right before our eye's we saw the healing. It looked like blowing a balloon up, the hands just unshrivelled the fingers and arms puffed out like normal and the man started crying and waving his hands in the air and praising God and all I could think of was how did he do that? It must be a trick or something but I touched his hands and arms and they were real. I thought maybe he had arm and hand shaped balloons covering him and was blown up and unshriveled when he was prayed for or something but no it was the real thing. I saw this first hand as did my daughter
we still talk about it to this day. Any comments?
wyteduv58, doesn't surprise me that God blessed us in TWI-1...I experienced healing myself, not nearly as dramatic as that, but did involve my leg which was in pain and was scheduled for a 10-mile marathon the next day. Thanks for sharing.
actually prevented miracles from happening if anything.
One thing I remember now that may confirm this is Dr saying repeatedly that our ministry wasn't a healing ministry. "if miracles never happen, it's still the Word" that may be an explanation why although since miracles and healings are Gods prerogatives it's His call. i thought the statement by Dr "the greatest of all miracles is the new birth" fit very well with our ministry and we certainly saw lots of that in TWI-1.
quote: One thing I remember now that may confirm this is Dr saying repeatedly that our ministry wasn't a healing ministry. "if miracles never happen, it's still the Word" that may be an explanation why although since miracles and healings are Gods prerogatives it's His call. i thought the statement by Dr "the greatest of all miracles is the new birth" fit very well with our ministry and we certainly saw lots of that in TWI-1.
Oldies, I look at is as vee pee pee's way of explaining why he can't produce any miracles after spending so much time telling people about the amazing things God did for him and allowed him to do. Just an excuse, imo.
It's like when lcm had to cancel the wc being full time. He reminded us that revelation changes as the situation changes and that the wc going back to work would bring the word to people satan had hidden from the ministry. I never saw any wc bring any people to any function in twi, but maybe that revelation changed too.
Another myth was that if a woman used Ms. instead of Mrs., she was buying into society's attempt to discredit the sanctity of marriage. I got a good talkin' to when I used that on a card registering for a class.
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diazbro
excathedra said:
twi 1 was godly, only twi 2 was devilly
a true way myth
>>
Oh yea. amen to that but you're gonna meet resistance with some people who think that
TWI during the 70s could do no wrong and ,in
fact, did no wrong. But I agree with you.
TWI I being godly is a total myth...
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JustThinking
Diazbro,
I do have a first-hand experience but with a twist. A person in our twig was healed of cancer by a local, well-known rev. Let's skip the name so it doesn't look like I'm promoting him. (I was the TC at the time so knew about the illness, etc.) Follow up X-rays showed a complete, 100% healing. One visit it's ugly, next visit 2 months later and it's gone. Completely clean.
BUT...BUT... here's where it gets good. The minister who healed him was actually on his way out the door to an offshoot! It wasn't a month before he was gone. So does TWI get the credit? His heart was NOT with TWI and he was just waiting to get his moving arrangements in place.
They didn't want to publicize this one as it gave credit to a guy they were saying was possessed. Talk about a tough one for them. "He's possessed like a new boot in hell" they said. (What does that mean anyway?!) It was kind of sad to watch them squirm over it. They let the story die down because we couldn't mention..."him."
JT
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George Aar
Diazbro,
I actually knew one of the supposed "miracle" recipients - someone who was supposedly "blind" and then was ministered to and GLORY!, she could now see.
Funny thing was, when I asked her about this dramatic event in her life, she was really vague about it. She actually acted rather put out by my asking and sort of gave me the "bum's rush" out the door (I think we were at "The Rock" at the time). My suspicions are that the "healing" was somewhat less miraculous than it was billed.
Personally I'm now pretty skeptical about any event where the Almighty supposedly suspends the laws of physics so as to accomodate the admittedly unworthy.
But then, who am I to question the actions of ALMIGHTY GOD? If someone says He did it, it must be true, right?
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smitty
VeePee said at the Advanced Class 75 at Emporia that "no plant rolled up in paper and smoked could kill me!" Or something like that. I guess he wasn't afraid of the shorty Kools. I was thrilled to hear him say that, because I could then smoke for the next 25 yrs or so and it wouldn't kill me either!!
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GrouchoMarxJr
In 1975 I led a blind guy by the arm up to talk to veepee. He asked veepee to minister healing to him, he was really excited! Veepee told him to "take the class and he would receive his eyesight during the class". I heard him with my own ears. The guy took the class, did NOT get healed, and died several months later...stick that in your pipe and smoke it Mike.
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wyteduv58
In 1976 at the last ROA in Shelby co. fairgrounds I think.
Any way my daughter and I were walking to our tent when we saw a small crowd of people surrouding a man in a wheelchair so we went to see what was going on and there was a well known Rev. Gerald W. talking to the man about healing and the man who's arms, hands, and leg were all shrivelled up, his hans were all twisted and his fingers looked like claws. He told the Rev that he would give anything if his arms and hands could be healed so the Rev. ministered to him right there and right before our eye's we saw the healing. It looked like blowing a balloon up, the hands just unshrivelled the fingers and arms puffed out like normal and the man started crying and waving his hands in the air and praising God and all I could think of was how did he do that? It must be a trick or something but I touched his hands and arms and they were real. I thought maybe he had arm and hand shaped balloons covering him and was blown up and unshriveled when he was prayed for or something but no it was the real thing. I saw this first hand as did my daughter
we still talk about it to this day. Any comments? BTW I've heard people say they were healed of headaches, stomache pain, different things that you can't really prove unless that person was telling the truth. I know that there were times in my life that I was ministered to by REV. Heavy Revey and I claimed healing just to get him or her off my back, but I wasn't healed of Jack $h!t.
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dmiller
Is there some way we can insert the word "Pharisees" into twi?
--> 
-->
It would seem to be MOST appropriate.
-->
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dmiller
The veracity of such a statement can only be judged by the validity of results, and the integrity of the person speaking.
There -- does that answer your question???
-->
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dmiller
And this is a prime example of veracity, validity, and integrity. Or rather the LACK thereof.
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WordWolf
That's very, VERY interesting.
I've been suspecting the Jubbalpore incident was either made-up, or lifted from
someone else's account. That's the one where the only proof was vpw tells me
so. For those of you blanking on it, we spent 3-4 minutes on it in pfal.
That's where vpw's on a train, getting ready to leave town, and an UNBELIEVER
comes up to him out of the blue and requests healing for his arm,
"BUT I DO NOT BELIEVE IN YOUR JESUS." (Remember NOW, right?) So vpw immediately
prays and there's an instant miracle of healing, and the guy's waying his healed
arm, jumping up and down, and vpw says "thank God you were healed, in the name
of Jesus Christ", just as the train begins pulling out in a nice dramatic exit.
So, a miracle of healing was good enough for an unbeliever, when there were no
witnesses, long before pfal was ever on the drawing-board......
...But years later, when there's witnesses, healing is NOT made available for
a Christian who TAKES THE CLASS, even, at vpw's direct instruction, (not even
slower, gradual healing), but instead, the guy dies. What possible reason could
there be for this guy to not get his healing when the guy in Jubbalpore
supposedly got HIS?
(Don't tell me, let me guess.
A) First of all, let's call Uncle H a liar.
B) Second of all, let's ridicule the question.
C) Third of all, and most important, blame the Christian who needed and wanted the
deliverance, who had his needs and his wants parallel, who knew what was available, how
to receive it, and what to do with it after he gaught it, who knew that God's ability
equals God's willingness.)
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dmiller
You said "don't tell, let me guess." OK -- you guessed, and now here is the REAL answer --
unexpected "snow storms" (ie -- snow jobs) appear on demand (seemingly).
-->
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excathedra
that is horrible.... you'll get healed while taking the frigging class, he doesn't, and then he dies
--
dovey, i heard about that too and similar stories regarding gerald wrenn
i think there were way more jack stories like yours
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wyteduv58
Exxie, I liked Gerald Wrenn and still do where ever he is.
And I saw that healing with mine own two eyes. lol
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def59
GW is like all the other nazis, just like Big B-b in S.Diego,
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def59
But that was then, this is now, times and people change.
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oldiesman
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George Aar
Wyteduv,
The part of your story you don't sum up though, did the man get out of his wheelchair?
If not, you gotta wonder why, don't you?
Maybe his believing wasn't "there" for a complete healing?
I don't question what you saw, just what actually happened.
Here's a blurb from "Quackwatch" that seems more in line with what I've experienced via "faith healing"...
http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/faith.html
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diazbro
Well see this is what I'm talking about. People
here are saying that they saw someone else get
healed but no one is telling me that they were
cured of cancer or paralysis , etc. This is no different than what I experienced while in TWI.
Always third person and about someone who is
nameless. Note - I'm not saying that people here
are misrepresenting what they saw though let
me toss in some more perspective...
Once this lady was rumored to have been cured
of cancer and her story was used to illustrate
the law of believing and serve as an inducement to take PFAL. But I found out that this lady never in fact was
diagnosed with cancer. She suspected she had it
on the basis of a family history combined with
chronic fatigue though she never went to the
doctor to get her problems diagnosed possibly because she was afraid ? No one knows but she
was never given a diagnosis of cancer. But how
many people heard this wonderful story and beleived it ? Probably most but they didn't have
the benefit of the info that I later discovered.
But of course people heard the story and turned
it into something that it wasn't so it was
quite disappointing to hear people proclaiming her as victorious over a disease that no one,
including herself, could say definitively that she even had.
Also I've seen so called spontaneous healings
in and outside of TWI and they follow the pattern
described in the wheelchair healing. But hey you can watch Benny Hinn and catch stuff like this.
People throwing away crutches, glasses, hearing
aids (most likely later wishing they hadn't )
I've seen people in wheelchairs get up and jump
in joy only later to return to their previous state. Of course just because someone is in a
wheelchair does not mean that they are incapable
of movement but lots of people naturally assume
this so if a person is in a wheelchair and they later get out if it then its called a miracle
Lots of arthritis patients use wheelchairs to
ease the pain associated with walking though they are still ambulatory and basically save their energy for times when they need to walk
or exercise. So unless someone is saying that
they are para pallegic then I'm not going to assume they are.
So while I apprecaite it that people are
posting their experiences , please understand
that its consistent with my previous Way experience of not being able to find anyone firsthand who claims to have been delivered
of a major illness (was totally blind but could see, regrown limbs, terminal illness gone) who
was/is willing to talk about it in specific terms.
Mircales in the bible were typically used as
opportunities to glorify God and the recipeient of the miracle was typically more than happy to
talk about their deliverance and provide their
story as a way to help the unbeliever understand that such things as miracles are indeed possible. But this simply isn't the case
in TWI. Its all hush hush and they think it odd if you want to know the details.
Lastly you should understand that I've seen
a few things (very few ) that I simply cannot explain. whether or not they were miracles I really don't know but I do realize that there
are times in one's life where things occur that
seem to have the hand of the divine behind it
and these are the things that give us hope and
such that there is more to it than just the eartly life. But I witnessed these things outside of
TWI which leads me to believe that perhaps TWI
actually prevented miracles from happening if anything.
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oldiesman
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insurgent
Oldies, I look at is as vee pee pee's way of explaining why he can't produce any miracles after spending so much time telling people about the amazing things God did for him and allowed him to do. Just an excuse, imo.
It's like when lcm had to cancel the wc being full time. He reminded us that revelation changes as the situation changes and that the wc going back to work would bring the word to people satan had hidden from the ministry. I never saw any wc bring any people to any function in twi, but maybe that revelation changed too.
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oldiesman
here's a Way myth:
V's pee pee was as active as John Holmes's...
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insurgent
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excathedra
not a good one, oldiesman
ok another way myth.... vee pee's pee pee was like john holmes's.... ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
this should be #1 on the BORING thread
ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
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takemethere
Another myth was that if a woman used Ms. instead of Mrs., she was buying into society's attempt to discredit the sanctity of marriage. I got a good talkin' to when I used that on a card registering for a class.
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