Pat you might try looking thru the bluelight bible commentaries to see if any of them help your understanding of this. Here is a link to one of the commentaries that refers to Rev 1:4
The Book of Revelation happens to be what I am and have been writing on for some time now.
So heerz my 2 cents. I will summarize as best I can
Re: TWI's fixation on "devil spirits" and warning against angelic things.
Fear and hate and ignorance on the part of the teachers, mainly.
The more they feared, the bigger the object of their fear became.
The devil became a massive and vast mountain of ideas that was hard to avoid.
And somehow, God was still on the other side of it.
But its like having a grain of sand in your eye. You can't see anything, and you cant think of else but that grains of sand as a mountain in your way.
my point - devil spirit kindgom are made of grains of sand. The devil only looks like a mountain.
A little water will wash them all away.
Re: the good spirits/bad spirits.
"Spirits" are a generic term.
They are the character or attitudes of all the planes of all creation.
They are not mere beings, like people.
They are more like mediums, or wavelengths of light and sound.
Although, all people are made of ALL 7 mediums.
Why only 7?
Because the 8th is just a higher octave of the first.
Thus, on the seventh day, God rested.
And so this character of 8 perpetuates infinity (the number is even shaped like infinity).
So it can be said that all spirits are good.
ALL of them.
What makes it a devil spirit is when a good spirit is unhealthy or broken.
Same spirit, its just a diseased leaf on the tree of life.
To cast the devil out of it, is to make the spirit whole again.
Salvation is when all 7 spirits of our being are made whole again.
The Book of Revelation reveals the apparatus of Christ WITHIN.
Which is really what you and me are made of.
When John saw the man, he was given a spiritual view of the full spectrum of the divine human nature, alpha to omega.
He was looking through a glass darkly, or at AN ENGIMA IN A MIRROR.
THe Book of Revelation, like Ezekial's vision, is true divine self in a mirror.
And so, all 7 lamps are centers of being within each of us, physically.
And all 7 angelic planes of creation are attuned to these lamps.
Like Hebrews says, angels are the flames of fire, ministering spirits.
Even if a lamp is snuffed out (and becomes a spirit of darkness), the lamp is still good, and can be relit.
The angel is the flame on the wick.
Each lamp is described to have a unique gifted purpose and a unique lesson to learn to become fulfilled.
And each also has a sign of its smoking, or DIS-ease.
The throneroom of God is also within.
Where we meet the Divine All-in-All is within.
But it is dark inside. We need all the lights turned on.
The last reward of the seventh lamp is a seat in that throneroom.
And the next thing we see is the throneroom itself.
Notice how the lamb has seven eyes.
The lamb is within, just as Christ is within.
It needs the eyes to open the seals.
The flame of the candle melts the wax.
The seals are what prevents us from understanding higher things.
Much like a mucus plug prevents the water from breaking.
They represent 7 obstacles we must overcome.
Then the trumpets are blown when we actively use the spirit.
And the bowls of wrath spill (or not) as we learn to balance our blowing.
All the wraths and wonders and horrible things of the book of revelation represent, not merely events in the world, but the way we perceive them. Also, biological changes that take place as our consciousness attunes.
In the end, when we get the hang of all the bowls and trumpets, only then can we make music.
Its like learning seven notes on a flute of our inner spirit.
What good is it if you don't move on to creating a song with them.
This is speaking in tongues of angels.
Which is why that manifestation is listed 8th.
We "sing" and radiate with our full spectrum of being.
In my research (ack, I hate that word), I have seen a correlation between the days of Genesis, the manifestations, the fruit, and all the wonderful detail of the book of revelation.
At this point, it would take me days to explain it.
Which is why I am writing a book about it instead.
And summarizing here.
There are a lot of great commentaries on the book, most of which apply it to world events.
And it does apply to the world outside, as well.
But that is because this ascended Jesus dude was smart.
He wove a multi-layered tapestry of divine understanding.
As it is above (within), so it is below (without).
But the strictly outer view of the book of revelation is secondary.
Empty of the primary inner realities expressed.
Christ is where?
Well, this book reveals him where he is, not where he is looked for.
It is the only book of the bible hand delivered by the ascended Jesus himself.
Which would make it more important than the epistles (which all point to it - btw)
Perhaps this is why carnal Christianity (like VP's) is frightened by it.
The darkness of a dogmatic cave is preferred to Christ's bright light.
Intellectual inward critical spiritual self analysis is terrifying.
Revelation of the 7 spirits and how they work would be a damning indictment of the spiritual state of most current Bible-holders, if it was not for the grace and love which creation is grounded in.
All is rendered naked by the Rev's 7-layered lense.
Especially the reader.
I hope it helps.
And feel free to share what you have found (private or not).
Names and naming is a vast subject tho. And I remember studying all the Biblical names for God, Christ, Satan etc... more closely while in TWI. Each reflecting a function or facet of the same. An enlightening approach.
On a side note, the "manifestation of discerning of spirits" is to see correlations everywhere. Discerning of spirits (being 7th in order) is directly connected to seeing through and beyond names, anyway. It penetrates ego and identity by engulfing them, re-clothing them, and wrapping around them rather than destroying or doing away with them. With spiritual discernment, merely looking at a thing or array of things sparks a forest of correlations, no matter what you are looking at, because there are only 7 spirits before the throne of God anyway. Its all there ever has been, in all their infinite degrees and depths.
Email me a link or a list of the O.T. redemptive names of God, if you have one.
Yes, chakras is one name in one language given to the seven churches.
Chakra means "wheel" in sanskrit, which is like a circular gathering together of energy, like a church or a house or a planet.
But the chakras/churches are NOT the angels or the spirits or the trumpets, etc... These are more like the energies that flow through the house, the light that shines through the windows, the warmth of the hearth that fills the rooms.
quote: Initially, I could only remember Holy Spirit, holy spirit, Michael and Gabriel. This was a fraction of the amount of info we got about devil spirits.
Why was / is TWI so out-of-balance in this category?
What an excellent question! :)--> Seems to me that 2/3rd's of the "spirit kingdom" were still "the good guys", yet we never did hear about them. -->
Ckeer: That's a neat website. It lines up with a bunch of other stuff I've read, saying the 7 spirits were related to the 7 churches, but I question that. Revelations does say the angels or "messengers" are related to the churches, but I think those 7 spirits are something different.
Dmiller: Isn't it comforting to remember that there are twice the number of good spirits as there are bad spirits? Especially when you think of the zillion bad spirits we learned so much about in TWI.
Bramble: Chakras are diagnostic tools for physical healers who are humble enough to recognize spiritual and emotional effects on the human body. Learning about chakras was part of my healing earlier this year when I had four vertebrae fused. Very powerful.
And Sirguess: Your posts are like reading Revelations itself! This is why you had to leave Gunnison. God delivered you from that hateful place ... by way of your wonderful mind. My questions for you are-
1. What are the "7 mediums" you refer to?
2. Are you saying there is a spirit for each day of the Creation, like "the Spirit of Plants", "the Sprit of Fish and Fowl", etc?
3. And about names - these are really important when it comes to understanding the being's purpose. Remember Jesus asking for Legion's name? He needed to know the name so he could interact with this guy. In this case, of course, it was to blast the spirit(s) out. But knowing something's name always facilitates a clearer interaction. We learned to do this with devil spirits. I want to interact with good spirits. I want the names of the 7 Revelations 1.
4. Discerning of Spirits may involve "seeing correlations everywhere", like you said, but it's bigger than that. Eventually it involves names.
5. If spirits are "characteristics or attitudes of will" (your definition, which I can sorta accept), then why would we love the devil?
You guys, I think if we start disecting the whole Book of Revelations on this thread, we will drown. Mostly, I just want to know more about the good spirits. There's gotta be way more than 7, but this is a place to start.
Happy Independence Day! Isn't it great to be independent? -Pat
And it looks like you got 2 ramblers out of the deal. :D-->
(Hi, Roy!)
quote:1. What are the "7 mediums" you refer to?
The spectrum of "stuff" that all of creation is made of. The distinctions are not defined not by specific kinds of matter, per se, but by original intent. And this intent is expressed most directly by number, such as the order of events, which gives each part its unfolding purpose. The character of singularity is evident regardless of language, in both macrocosmic and microcosmic levels. Likewise, with duality and trinity and seasonality. Vibrations, mainly, on the most subtle levels of matter.
quote:2. Are you saying there is a spirit for each day of the Creation, like "the Spirit of Plants", "the Sprit of Fish and Fowl", etc?
You could say it that way, but like eveything, it gets deeper. Each day of creation unfolded around the previous day. Each day was formed upon the spirit of that day, not the other way around. We cannot have 2 without a 1 to double. We cannot have 3 without a 1 and a 2 (or a 1 to triple), etc... And its not that spirit resembles tree, but that tree resembles a "spirit."
Example: the fifth revolution of creation resulted in ALL of creation manifesting fiveness. The wild card that relies upon 4, 3, 2, and 1. Diversification, evolution, law of the jungle. The "snake" and the "dragon" running wild in their imaginations, questioning every model and mode and function. Rational poking and testing, their energy derived from the cyclical framework, the truine control factors, the unavoidable duality of "yes" and "no," in the inescapable field of unity. Without these, this fiveness would not be, just as without sex and conception, the rapid development of a being in the womb could never be. The "fifth spirit" can be seen in all things, big and small. Wherever this intent is manifest (or NOT manifest - which is an evil condition that must be worked out, cleaned off, trimmed, etc...).
quote:3. And about names - these are really important when it comes to understanding the being's purpose. Remember Jesus asking for Legion's name? He needed to know the name so he could interact with this guy. In this case, of course, it was to blast the spirit(s) out. But knowing something's name always facilitates a clearer interaction. We learned to do this with devil spirits. I want to interact with good spirits. I want the names of the 7 Revelations 1.
All words are also names. And all words/names are disposable labels. They are interchangable. Ultimately, the "real" name a thing might have is beyond what we might call it with speech. But names are usable in spiritual healing, especially a name a person might use to describe their own perception of their DIS-ease (such as the fragmented legions that troubled the man in the tombs. believe it or not - he was trapped in a very high frequency of awareness - a head whose arms and legs were inundated with countless things).
The names of the 7 spirits before the throne are beyond permenant labels. Though you can call them many things. Spoken and written words do serve to lead to the more direct language of light and form, but they are only an intermediary tool.
Ultimately, you already know the "names" of the 7 spirits (which are not the same as the 7 angels or churches, though both of these things exist because of the 7 spirits (which date back to the genesis)).
quote:4. Discerning of Spirits may involve "seeing correlations everywhere", like you said, but it's bigger than that. Eventually it involves names.
Yes. Your mind has an infinite number of pens and labels at your disposal. Without them, you would be lost.
quote:5. If spirits are "characteristics or attitudes of will" (your definition, which I can sorta accept), then why would we love the devil?
By attitude, I mean trajectory, or inherent momentum. For example, the first spirit binds all of creation together. Anything that binds anything together has this same attitude.
Why would we love the devil? Good question.
The simple answer is, because Jesus said so. :P-->
He said to love our enemies.
Or just Love, period.
Even if it hurts.
Even if it kills ya.
If you can't bring yourself do this, but wish you could, you are on the path.
If you don't think this is right, do what you think is right then.
Our devil is an evil spirit. Because it is an illusion.
When we hate our enemies, something is still broken inside.
For in the end, "we" have no enemies. Only our flesh does.
Likewise, our enemies are already broken for hating us.
We already knew that part though. :D-->
When we think of the devil as a being that is out there, and all his minions are co-conspirators in some plan to exact revenge for getting the boot from heaven, we are shifting an inward light to the outer darkness, so to speak. Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven.
If the majority of humanity is subject to this inner illusionary devil, then the devil becomes real, but only his works are manifest in the outer world. And the world is waiting for an outer liberator to come and squash him for them. If they cannot wait for their outward messiah any longer, well, they will send someone to kill their enemy with their bare hands if they have to.
We cannot stop humanity from doing this. But if I dethrone him within myself, I am free to heal via the form of living words that freed me.
In other words, there is no devil hiding out there, except in the sense that he is hiding in our enemies. And so this then makes the illusionary devil also quite real. Man makes it so, as he has from the beginning.
---
And I agree, we will drown if we dive into the book of Rev. Because that book will make you lose your mind. ;)-->
There are way more than 7 spirits, but there are also only 7 spirits.
Because "spirit" is just a label. And spirit is just a medium. Like saying, there are only 7 colors, but there are really infinite colors, and infinite things that are mostly blue.
And then the spirit of nothingness is another matter altogether (or, actually, not a matter at all).
I've read and re-read this thread....I saw the question posted by Schwaigers asking what the 7 mediums are...the answer was vague...I would like to know what you think are the seven sprits. And what their impact is today.
Let us etch the truth in stone so we can own it forever.
Kinda like, "If you do not eat of that tree of knowledge, you will die!"
In the end, there is no urgency.
Pay attention to the imagery that arises without disturbing it.
See what inner light answers the outer sounds.
You posed a good question.
What is their impact today?
I will try to be as vague and generic as possible. :D-->
Example:
7 - realization
6 - vision
5 - evolution
4 - death
3 - control
2 - pleasure
1 - pain
What drives a person/being?
What drives a family/tribe/?
What drives a community/clan/religion?
What drives a nation/race?
What drives the world/humanity?
Ok, a bit more specific, though still vague, very limited examples off the top of my head.
It is not my intention to hurt anyone or cover every scenario of a spirit.
Love. Oneness. When a baby is born, it is innocently full of love for self, and so it cries at every pain and hunger, this is a good spirit. It results in genuine love. When an adult eats garbage to avoid pain, the good thing is at DISease, and is an evil spirit to them.
Joy. Twoness. When a person can laugh at whatever they want in front of their friends, this is a good spirit. It results in genuine joy. When a person has to fake it to avoid abuse because "friends" are also faking it, the good thing is broken, and may culminate into a violent mob.
Peace. Threeness. When a king can weigh two matters before him and make a fair judgement of the true worth of each, this is a good spirit and a just king. It results in genuine peace. When a king is stuck below in oneness (greed) and twoness (among a synagogue of phony smiles), the good scales are not working within him, and his judgement will not be fair, and no genuine peace will ever come of it. Ever.
etc....
The discerning the manifestations of spirit trancends words, but includes them. It is on the spot, using labels and names according to form and function (light) rather than mere sound (representation). Ephemeral, at best.
Like I said, "spirit," in the sense of the 7 spirits before the throne, are the 7 spirits which will be before the throne WITHIN your spiritual mind. The throne of God is within. To be "seated" inwardly on this throne is the function/reward of the 7th church. Only by sitting on this throne can you begin to learn to see the seven spirits moment by moment. This is discerning of spirits, regardless of what someone may want to call them in a syllabus.
We first discern the inherent goodness of spirits, as intended. How else can we know what is wrong with them? We recognize the "signature" of them in people, in families, in animals, in plants, in rocks, in clouds, in moons and stars. Alpha to Omega is a range of ultimate inwardness to ultimate outwardness.
To some degree I can accept the possibility that good spirits are simply good characteristics or virtues, and not "concrete" beings. This is what I was taught as a kid, and it seems to represent the contemporary thinking of mainstream Christianity. It's 2004 and we don't believe in magic anymore.
Plus ... I totally reject LCM's visual interpetation of little goblins and creeps in leotards (bad spirits), as shown in his stupid "Athletes" production. Good grief.
But ...
I am certain that somewhere between these two extremes of spirit identities, there really are spirits which exist in tangible form - at least sometimes.
And I'm also sure that Names are much more important than mere labels. Remember - we are told to pray in the name of Jesus Christ. Names have power.
In Judges 13, an angel shows up to tell a lady she's gonna have a baby (which turns out to be Samson). Dad then asks for the angel's name, and the angel responds that his name is secret. Hmmmmmm.
And in Revelation 2:17 we are told that we will be given new names by God. Cool, huh?
In Wicca (oh, boy, now I'm treading on thin ice !), magic spells or hexes cannot be cast without knowing the recipient's name. In Native American tradition, a new name is given following puberty rites. It not only symbolizes some event which may have occurred during the ceremony, but also gives the young adult an identity to live up to. In Hawaii, they even name their canoes, and refer to them respectfully by name, not because they think the canoe is alive, but because they acknowledge that this vessel is what will protect them from the sea, and it must be cared for honorably - which includes a name. The Bible tells us that bad spirits know our names.
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ckeer
Pat you might try looking thru the bluelight bible commentaries to see if any of them help your understanding of this. Here is a link to one of the commentaries that refers to Rev 1:4
http://www.blueletterbible.org/tmp_dir/c/1...74714-2426.html
There are many references here, some are audio teachins from the 1990s. The one I linked is from 1871, I believe.
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sirguessalot
Hi, Pat.
The Book of Revelation happens to be what I am and have been writing on for some time now.
So heerz my 2 cents. I will summarize as best I can
Re: TWI's fixation on "devil spirits" and warning against angelic things.
Fear and hate and ignorance on the part of the teachers, mainly.
The more they feared, the bigger the object of their fear became.
The devil became a massive and vast mountain of ideas that was hard to avoid.
And somehow, God was still on the other side of it.
But its like having a grain of sand in your eye. You can't see anything, and you cant think of else but that grains of sand as a mountain in your way.
my point - devil spirit kindgom are made of grains of sand. The devil only looks like a mountain.
A little water will wash them all away.
Re: the good spirits/bad spirits.
"Spirits" are a generic term.
They are the character or attitudes of all the planes of all creation.
They are not mere beings, like people.
They are more like mediums, or wavelengths of light and sound.
Although, all people are made of ALL 7 mediums.
Why only 7?
Because the 8th is just a higher octave of the first.
Thus, on the seventh day, God rested.
And so this character of 8 perpetuates infinity (the number is even shaped like infinity).
So it can be said that all spirits are good.
ALL of them.
What makes it a devil spirit is when a good spirit is unhealthy or broken.
Same spirit, its just a diseased leaf on the tree of life.
To cast the devil out of it, is to make the spirit whole again.
Salvation is when all 7 spirits of our being are made whole again.
The Book of Revelation reveals the apparatus of Christ WITHIN.
Which is really what you and me are made of.
When John saw the man, he was given a spiritual view of the full spectrum of the divine human nature, alpha to omega.
He was looking through a glass darkly, or at AN ENGIMA IN A MIRROR.
THe Book of Revelation, like Ezekial's vision, is true divine self in a mirror.
And so, all 7 lamps are centers of being within each of us, physically.
And all 7 angelic planes of creation are attuned to these lamps.
Like Hebrews says, angels are the flames of fire, ministering spirits.
Even if a lamp is snuffed out (and becomes a spirit of darkness), the lamp is still good, and can be relit.
The angel is the flame on the wick.
Each lamp is described to have a unique gifted purpose and a unique lesson to learn to become fulfilled.
And each also has a sign of its smoking, or DIS-ease.
The throneroom of God is also within.
Where we meet the Divine All-in-All is within.
But it is dark inside. We need all the lights turned on.
The last reward of the seventh lamp is a seat in that throneroom.
And the next thing we see is the throneroom itself.
Notice how the lamb has seven eyes.
The lamb is within, just as Christ is within.
It needs the eyes to open the seals.
The flame of the candle melts the wax.
The seals are what prevents us from understanding higher things.
Much like a mucus plug prevents the water from breaking.
They represent 7 obstacles we must overcome.
Then the trumpets are blown when we actively use the spirit.
And the bowls of wrath spill (or not) as we learn to balance our blowing.
All the wraths and wonders and horrible things of the book of revelation represent, not merely events in the world, but the way we perceive them. Also, biological changes that take place as our consciousness attunes.
In the end, when we get the hang of all the bowls and trumpets, only then can we make music.
Its like learning seven notes on a flute of our inner spirit.
What good is it if you don't move on to creating a song with them.
This is speaking in tongues of angels.
Which is why that manifestation is listed 8th.
We "sing" and radiate with our full spectrum of being.
In my research (ack, I hate that word), I have seen a correlation between the days of Genesis, the manifestations, the fruit, and all the wonderful detail of the book of revelation.
At this point, it would take me days to explain it.
Which is why I am writing a book about it instead.
And summarizing here.
There are a lot of great commentaries on the book, most of which apply it to world events.
And it does apply to the world outside, as well.
But that is because this ascended Jesus dude was smart.
He wove a multi-layered tapestry of divine understanding.
As it is above (within), so it is below (without).
But the strictly outer view of the book of revelation is secondary.
Empty of the primary inner realities expressed.
Christ is where?
Well, this book reveals him where he is, not where he is looked for.
It is the only book of the bible hand delivered by the ascended Jesus himself.
Which would make it more important than the epistles (which all point to it - btw)
Perhaps this is why carnal Christianity (like VP's) is frightened by it.
The darkness of a dogmatic cave is preferred to Christ's bright light.
Intellectual inward critical spiritual self analysis is terrifying.
Revelation of the 7 spirits and how they work would be a damning indictment of the spiritual state of most current Bible-holders, if it was not for the grace and love which creation is grounded in.
All is rendered naked by the Rev's 7-layered lense.
Especially the reader.
I hope it helps.
And feel free to share what you have found (private or not).
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cc ray
"Why was/is TWI so out-of-balance in this category?" When were they ever balanced?
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ckeer
sirguessalot- do you also see a correlation with
"the redemtive names of God" in the old testament also?
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sirguessalot
ckeer- Not really.
But only because I haven't looked.
Names and naming is a vast subject tho. And I remember studying all the Biblical names for God, Christ, Satan etc... more closely while in TWI. Each reflecting a function or facet of the same. An enlightening approach.
On a side note, the "manifestation of discerning of spirits" is to see correlations everywhere. Discerning of spirits (being 7th in order) is directly connected to seeing through and beyond names, anyway. It penetrates ego and identity by engulfing them, re-clothing them, and wrapping around them rather than destroying or doing away with them. With spiritual discernment, merely looking at a thing or array of things sparks a forest of correlations, no matter what you are looking at, because there are only 7 spirits before the throne of God anyway. Its all there ever has been, in all their infinite degrees and depths.
Email me a link or a list of the O.T. redemptive names of God, if you have one.
I would enjoy that.
:)-->
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Bramble
Hope this isn't a derail. . .
sirguessalot, do have you looked at other belief systems wisdom teaching? Seven chakras comes to mind.
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sirguessalot
Yes, chakras is one name in one language given to the seven churches.
Chakra means "wheel" in sanskrit, which is like a circular gathering together of energy, like a church or a house or a planet.
But the chakras/churches are NOT the angels or the spirits or the trumpets, etc... These are more like the energies that flow through the house, the light that shines through the windows, the warmth of the hearth that fills the rooms.
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dmiller
What an excellent question!
:)--> Seems to me that 2/3rd's of the "spirit kingdom" were still "the good guys", yet we never did hear about them. 
-->
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johniam
Sirguessalot:
quote:So it can be said that all spirits are good.
ALL of them.
What makes it a devil spirit is when a good spirit is unhealthy or broken.
Same spirit, its just a diseased leaf on the tree of life.
To cast the devil out of it, is to make the spirit whole again.
Then who is the devil? And what is Rev.20:10 all about?
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sirguessalot
Johniam,
Good question.
But I would be asking what the first chapters are about, not chapter 20.
Oh well, here goes...
The devil is that illusionary enemy you must destroy.
That is why the devil is always a liar.
Yes, he is that enemy you must learn to love, even if it hurts you.
But until then, your "devil" will continue to be the source of all your worldly ills.
He will hunt you like a lion and eat you up from the inside.
He knows your hot and cold buttons like no other, because he is within us,
made by us, and served by us.
There is a seat in the human soul where "he" sits and blocks the human mind.
Blocks it from loving like we know we should.
He needs to be unseated and replaced by another, no?
Besides, God is Hell. A lake of fire.
A consuming fire that is either a bath of light to the "fire-drinkers,"
or an angry and painful inferno to those who seek only to save themselves from it.
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johniam
Sirg: Sounds kinda like Freud's superego.
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sirguessalot
Yeah, kinda. I've read a lot of things, but I've never read Freud's work.
And I suppose I could say that your version of the Devil sounds kinda like (fill in religion)'s version of the Devil. Not sure what that means, tho.
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WordWolf
vpw tended to tread lightly on subjects he knew so little about that he
couldn't even FAKE it convincingly.
Let me get back to you on this one.
Frankly, though, I'd consider checking out some Christian websites and
messageboards on this. Some of them are quite good.
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Schwaigers
Gee I love you guys!
Ckeer: That's a neat website. It lines up with a bunch of other stuff I've read, saying the 7 spirits were related to the 7 churches, but I question that. Revelations does say the angels or "messengers" are related to the churches, but I think those 7 spirits are something different.
Dmiller: Isn't it comforting to remember that there are twice the number of good spirits as there are bad spirits? Especially when you think of the zillion bad spirits we learned so much about in TWI.
Bramble: Chakras are diagnostic tools for physical healers who are humble enough to recognize spiritual and emotional effects on the human body. Learning about chakras was part of my healing earlier this year when I had four vertebrae fused. Very powerful.
And Sirguess: Your posts are like reading Revelations itself! This is why you had to leave Gunnison. God delivered you from that hateful place ... by way of your wonderful mind. My questions for you are-
1. What are the "7 mediums" you refer to?
2. Are you saying there is a spirit for each day of the Creation, like "the Spirit of Plants", "the Sprit of Fish and Fowl", etc?
3. And about names - these are really important when it comes to understanding the being's purpose. Remember Jesus asking for Legion's name? He needed to know the name so he could interact with this guy. In this case, of course, it was to blast the spirit(s) out. But knowing something's name always facilitates a clearer interaction. We learned to do this with devil spirits. I want to interact with good spirits. I want the names of the 7 Revelations 1.
4. Discerning of Spirits may involve "seeing correlations everywhere", like you said, but it's bigger than that. Eventually it involves names.
5. If spirits are "characteristics or attitudes of will" (your definition, which I can sorta accept), then why would we love the devil?
You guys, I think if we start disecting the whole Book of Revelations on this thread, we will drown. Mostly, I just want to know more about the good spirits. There's gotta be way more than 7, but this is a place to start.
Happy Independence Day! Isn't it great to be independent? -Pat
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year2027
God first
Hi Schwaigers
Look at air
the elements like oxgen are the names
now think about places like LA where the air is black or so
The good spirts are like the diff names of elements in the air
I think each oxgen cell as a spiritual part but I am not sure how things work
But if my thinking is right that would make oxgen a good spirit
but think even the smoke that comes from our cars that is a bad air was good where it was in its state before we kill it by fire
In the body thw white cells are the good parts
Jesus Christ said come as a child a lower size of a person but lets take it smaller come as a white cell
what are the cells of your body made of or how many good elements are in the body
what is sickness but bad cells so we took in knowing they were bad others got bad because of missuse
I can only hope you can made some heads or tails of my words
with love Roy
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sirguessalot
Thanks, Pat.
And it looks like you got 2 ramblers out of the deal.
:D-->
(Hi, Roy!)
The spectrum of "stuff" that all of creation is made of. The distinctions are not defined not by specific kinds of matter, per se, but by original intent. And this intent is expressed most directly by number, such as the order of events, which gives each part its unfolding purpose. The character of singularity is evident regardless of language, in both macrocosmic and microcosmic levels. Likewise, with duality and trinity and seasonality. Vibrations, mainly, on the most subtle levels of matter. You could say it that way, but like eveything, it gets deeper. Each day of creation unfolded around the previous day. Each day was formed upon the spirit of that day, not the other way around. We cannot have 2 without a 1 to double. We cannot have 3 without a 1 and a 2 (or a 1 to triple), etc... And its not that spirit resembles tree, but that tree resembles a "spirit."Example: the fifth revolution of creation resulted in ALL of creation manifesting fiveness. The wild card that relies upon 4, 3, 2, and 1. Diversification, evolution, law of the jungle. The "snake" and the "dragon" running wild in their imaginations, questioning every model and mode and function. Rational poking and testing, their energy derived from the cyclical framework, the truine control factors, the unavoidable duality of "yes" and "no," in the inescapable field of unity. Without these, this fiveness would not be, just as without sex and conception, the rapid development of a being in the womb could never be. The "fifth spirit" can be seen in all things, big and small. Wherever this intent is manifest (or NOT manifest - which is an evil condition that must be worked out, cleaned off, trimmed, etc...).
All words are also names. And all words/names are disposable labels. They are interchangable. Ultimately, the "real" name a thing might have is beyond what we might call it with speech. But names are usable in spiritual healing, especially a name a person might use to describe their own perception of their DIS-ease (such as the fragmented legions that troubled the man in the tombs. believe it or not - he was trapped in a very high frequency of awareness - a head whose arms and legs were inundated with countless things).The names of the 7 spirits before the throne are beyond permenant labels. Though you can call them many things. Spoken and written words do serve to lead to the more direct language of light and form, but they are only an intermediary tool.
Ultimately, you already know the "names" of the 7 spirits (which are not the same as the 7 angels or churches, though both of these things exist because of the 7 spirits (which date back to the genesis)).
Yes. Your mind has an infinite number of pens and labels at your disposal. Without them, you would be lost. By attitude, I mean trajectory, or inherent momentum. For example, the first spirit binds all of creation together. Anything that binds anything together has this same attitude.Why would we love the devil? Good question.
The simple answer is, because Jesus said so.
:P-->
He said to love our enemies.
Or just Love, period.
Even if it hurts.
Even if it kills ya.
If you can't bring yourself do this, but wish you could, you are on the path.
If you don't think this is right, do what you think is right then.
Our devil is an evil spirit. Because it is an illusion.
When we hate our enemies, something is still broken inside.
For in the end, "we" have no enemies. Only our flesh does.
Likewise, our enemies are already broken for hating us.
We already knew that part though.
:D-->
When we think of the devil as a being that is out there, and all his minions are co-conspirators in some plan to exact revenge for getting the boot from heaven, we are shifting an inward light to the outer darkness, so to speak. Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven.
If the majority of humanity is subject to this inner illusionary devil, then the devil becomes real, but only his works are manifest in the outer world. And the world is waiting for an outer liberator to come and squash him for them. If they cannot wait for their outward messiah any longer, well, they will send someone to kill their enemy with their bare hands if they have to.
We cannot stop humanity from doing this. But if I dethrone him within myself, I am free to heal via the form of living words that freed me.
In other words, there is no devil hiding out there, except in the sense that he is hiding in our enemies. And so this then makes the illusionary devil also quite real. Man makes it so, as he has from the beginning.
---
And I agree, we will drown if we dive into the book of Rev. Because that book will make you lose your mind.
;)-->
There are way more than 7 spirits, but there are also only 7 spirits.
Because "spirit" is just a label. And spirit is just a medium. Like saying, there are only 7 colors, but there are really infinite colors, and infinite things that are mostly blue.
And then the spirit of nothingness is another matter altogether (or, actually, not a matter at all).
Peace
:)-->
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excathedra
forgive me for checking in and not reading
sirguess is a good spirit
that's it
i love him
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Cindy!
I've read and re-read this thread....I saw the question posted by Schwaigers asking what the 7 mediums are...the answer was vague...I would like to know what you think are the seven sprits. And what their impact is today.
And please be succinct.
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sirguessalot
mwah to you, E.
(edited the rest because, after a quick review, I realize that I spoke too soon)
:D-->
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sirguessalot
Hi Cindy.
The answer is vague.
Spirit itself is vague, no?
Like a vapor. Like flame. Like the wind.
From what I read in the Bible.
Because concrete is for religions.
Let us etch the truth in stone so we can own it forever.
Kinda like, "If you do not eat of that tree of knowledge, you will die!"
In the end, there is no urgency.
Pay attention to the imagery that arises without disturbing it.
See what inner light answers the outer sounds.
You posed a good question.
What is their impact today?
I will try to be as vague and generic as possible.
:D-->
Example:
7 - realization
6 - vision
5 - evolution
4 - death
3 - control
2 - pleasure
1 - pain
What drives a person/being?
What drives a family/tribe/?
What drives a community/clan/religion?
What drives a nation/race?
What drives the world/humanity?
Ok, a bit more specific, though still vague, very limited examples off the top of my head.
It is not my intention to hurt anyone or cover every scenario of a spirit.
Love. Oneness. When a baby is born, it is innocently full of love for self, and so it cries at every pain and hunger, this is a good spirit. It results in genuine love. When an adult eats garbage to avoid pain, the good thing is at DISease, and is an evil spirit to them.
Joy. Twoness. When a person can laugh at whatever they want in front of their friends, this is a good spirit. It results in genuine joy. When a person has to fake it to avoid abuse because "friends" are also faking it, the good thing is broken, and may culminate into a violent mob.
Peace. Threeness. When a king can weigh two matters before him and make a fair judgement of the true worth of each, this is a good spirit and a just king. It results in genuine peace. When a king is stuck below in oneness (greed) and twoness (among a synagogue of phony smiles), the good scales are not working within him, and his judgement will not be fair, and no genuine peace will ever come of it. Ever.
etc....
The discerning the manifestations of spirit trancends words, but includes them. It is on the spot, using labels and names according to form and function (light) rather than mere sound (representation). Ephemeral, at best.
Like I said, "spirit," in the sense of the 7 spirits before the throne, are the 7 spirits which will be before the throne WITHIN your spiritual mind. The throne of God is within. To be "seated" inwardly on this throne is the function/reward of the 7th church. Only by sitting on this throne can you begin to learn to see the seven spirits moment by moment. This is discerning of spirits, regardless of what someone may want to call them in a syllabus.
We first discern the inherent goodness of spirits, as intended. How else can we know what is wrong with them? We recognize the "signature" of them in people, in families, in animals, in plants, in rocks, in clouds, in moons and stars. Alpha to Omega is a range of ultimate inwardness to ultimate outwardness.
Ok, gotta go get ready for a bday party.
Thanks for stirring me.
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ckeer
I ran a search on the seven fold holy spirit and found this:
http://www.biblebb.com/files/macqa/1301-E-3.htm
the article refers to the Spirit of the Lord upon the messiah in Isa 11:2
1. the spirit of wisdom
2. and understanding,
3. the spirit of counsel
4. and might,
5. the spirit of knowledge
6. (Obedient & Reverental) fear of the LORD
I wonder if the "seventh spirit" might be described as God's love for His children?
a search of "The Spirit of the Lord" found
The spirit of the Lord upon Isaiah
(Partly quoted by Jesus in Matthew)
Isa 61:1 & Isa 61:2
1. to preach good tidings unto the meek
2. to bind up the brokenhearted
3. to proclaim liberty to the captives
4. the opening of the prison to [them that are] bound
5. To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD
6. the day of vengeance of our God
7. to comfort all that mourn
(Sounds a little like what happens at the cafe to me)
;)-->
I think Sir guess has a fascinating insight and original thought on this topic and I am trying to understand it.
I wanted to share some biblical references that may help my own and others understanding
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Cindy!
If it brings you comfort, I support your comfort and your freedom of belief.
Cheers to ya!
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Schwaigers
Ckeer and Sirguess,
To some degree I can accept the possibility that good spirits are simply good characteristics or virtues, and not "concrete" beings. This is what I was taught as a kid, and it seems to represent the contemporary thinking of mainstream Christianity. It's 2004 and we don't believe in magic anymore.
Plus ... I totally reject LCM's visual interpetation of little goblins and creeps in leotards (bad spirits), as shown in his stupid "Athletes" production. Good grief.
But ...
I am certain that somewhere between these two extremes of spirit identities, there really are spirits which exist in tangible form - at least sometimes.
And I'm also sure that Names are much more important than mere labels. Remember - we are told to pray in the name of Jesus Christ. Names have power.
In Judges 13, an angel shows up to tell a lady she's gonna have a baby (which turns out to be Samson). Dad then asks for the angel's name, and the angel responds that his name is secret. Hmmmmmm.
And in Revelation 2:17 we are told that we will be given new names by God. Cool, huh?
In Wicca (oh, boy, now I'm treading on thin ice !), magic spells or hexes cannot be cast without knowing the recipient's name. In Native American tradition, a new name is given following puberty rites. It not only symbolizes some event which may have occurred during the ceremony, but also gives the young adult an identity to live up to. In Hawaii, they even name their canoes, and refer to them respectfully by name, not because they think the canoe is alive, but because they acknowledge that this vessel is what will protect them from the sea, and it must be cared for honorably - which includes a name. The Bible tells us that bad spirits know our names.
Check this out:
http://members.aol.com/jesusandsue2/A16-PowerFailure.html
The point is ... if you can get the name of something, you can interact with it more precisely, whether for the good or the bad.
I'm interested in the good, and I'm still curious about the names of the 7 spirits.
-Pat
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TheSongRemainsTheSame
i suppose if ya had an address to the names, then maybe the north pole is for real .
just a thot
Santa
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