That's right dabob...I remember quite well when Veepee made all those statements about his family standing with twi. I left in 87, so I missed Loyboys reference to it in his letter concerning Geer...interesting that he eventually is convicted by his very own words. A false prophet by every standard.
Don't mean to contradict THE THE prophet, but I sincerely doubt the 2 elder daughters or families were "standing" with twit in the 89/90/91 time frame. The Sommervilles, in particular, had to practically be dragged kicking and screaming to Living Vic in '82; they had been on the outs with the old man for years at that point... I really can't see the Martins lending their support to cretin loy; maybe to Mrs. W but not big forehead's version of twit...
yes, ex, his vicness-ness had had a family xmas at gunnysack with all the family and guilted them about standing with THE WAY come h or high water. That ding-dong "stewardess" on the plane wrote it all down and we had to put up with it all at the next bore-ing weak....
it featured, among other bits of flotsam and jetsom, the idea that, IIRC, Luke?? Sommerville would be the prez someday -- IF,IF,IF the Whole Vierville clan stayed faithful til then, or some other such swill... and don't quote me chapper and wurst, get somebody else to back it up.... :D--> :P-->
I remember that, VP going off on how his whole family had to stand or the ministry would be lost, and of course, one of his relatives would be the pres someday. Keep it all in the family. I was surprised he wanted a family dynasty.
Of course, it was "heavy" and everyone was so serious afterwards. I kept thinking, why have the corps when we have blatent nepotism going on here.
quote:Of course, it was "heavy" and everyone was so serious afterwards. I kept thinking, why have the corps when we have blatent nepotism going on here.
Yeah, Sunesis, I remember thinking the same thing.
yes, Jardi -- a full boat, all the kids photo, I believe you are right.
I remember getting together with some fellow 6kcktpphhtt kork yahoos afterwards and wondering where the hell all this stuff came from and was it real and did the "stewardess" have a screw loose or two and other not-ready-for-main stage type questions...
excy, the more I look back and the older I get, there WAS more than a fair share of delusional thinking going on and I freely admit, I bought into far too much of it. Though all that stuff about his family and grandson was far-fetched, even then... maybe I recovered my sanity a bit more easily because I was just a wee bit of a mocking cynic...MMUUWWWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA** for you, excy....
"The Sommervilles, in particular, had to practically be dragged kicking and screaming to Living Vic in '82; they had been on the outs with the old man for years at that point..."
Really...?
And there are those who believe the Wierwille children were completely unaware of the highjinx their Father was engaged in. Interesting...
Well, I suppose it's possible. But if Mrs. W knew he was road testing Corp gals in the motor coach, I doubt this bit of information escaped the kids. I know that if I even suspected my Dad was boinking young women in a back yard RV, while my mom sat alone in the house, I'd have refused to have much to do with him. Does anyone REALLY believe the kids did'nt know about a lot of what Dr. was up to? In which case, I can certainly understand why they would be disinclined to publicly address such a shameful and scandalous legacy.
Cherish -- I do not know that much, but I do know how J S--meville went from being one of Vic's fair-haired boys to being in Tick's dog-house rather rapidly in the mid-70s. Of course, at the time I knew nothing beyond that. Now, with hind-sight and knowledge others have filled in and things I found out from those close to the S--villes, I would say, at least for J and M Wier. S--ville, they had to know what was up. I wish I could go into great detail but certain people who have never come out of the woodwork told me in confidence and there it will remain.
I will state that both of the elder daughters were very bright and not types given to much naivete...
Stuff happened at Emporia in my first year in rez wid da 6kcktppthhh kork and J S was well aware of it, having been there for a month on faculty teaching OT History. Remember, the Emperor thought his lock-box style new clothes were wonderful but eventually it was noted they were NO clothes at all....
ps I worked in Transportation whenever I was at HQ for bore week, raca and other big events. I did many airport runs, especially for muckety-mucks, vips and the like, including family members. Guess who got an earful from Dayton to Wirewillie road coming in for Living Vic in 82....uhh-huhh!
Well, thanks for filling that part in for us (at least for me).
Karen Martin and her college prof. husband didn't seem like the type to support the questionable behavior of her dad and I have often wondered how long they kept up the pretense of being involved. Or, maybe they didn't.
did she?? She certainly edited a number of vic's books.
I really think that was about as involved as they were over the years, except for vic's little rant about da whole family united behind vic. They were simply NOT a presence in wayworld affairs...
Me too...sometimes I feel so guilty because of my "thought-life" regarding the older corps that had "tripped out."
Like you said, UGGHHHH...enough already.
radar
Alfie,
Yes, Karen Martin edited Dorothea Wierwille's book....I have to just say here, that Karen Martin is one of the most genuine, kind and real people I have ever known....in twi or out of twi. Her work as an editor is genuine, she is trained and is excellent at her job, she did it because of her love and respect for her parents, not because of any allegiance to twi.
Regarding the Sommervilles. John (and by extension Mary) were at odds with vpw, probably for a bunch of reasons, but the reason most sited, and the reason most vocalized by John Sommerville was because of his open disagreement with vpw over aspects of the "bible lands."
Just a comment (or five) regarding the Wierwille family standing with twi.
I feel as "empowered and informed" as anyone else on this subject....maybe more. This topic means different things to different people.
VPW did indeed say that the vitality of the ministry depended upon the Wierwille family staying involved, and the decline of "the ministry" would correspond to the involvement and support of the Wierwille Family. What some of the posters remember, is a video made in celebration of the 40th Anniversary, it was made for the way corps...it was called " A Day with the Wierwilles."
The paradox here...is the difference between what VPW described, his views, his wishes, his visions.....and WHAT REALLY HAPPENED.
Whether or not whoever is reading this believed what he said is true......what he said is NOT WHAT HAPPENED.
I was on staff from 85-94.....during which 1987-1994 I worked directly for A or multiple members of the Wierwille family. I have countless notes of meetings or teachings (private or public) in which lcm constantly referred to how important it was to have members of the Wierwille family stand with twi.
As twi became more bizarre, as lcm became more of a heathen.....the wierwille family members seemed to distance themselves from the twi establishment.
It is a lot of very personal, deep, heart wrenching, concepts to understand and process. Please don't crucify me and what I have said....I am trying to be as honest as I can.....and put it all in perspective. The Wierwille kids, Mary, Karen, Don, J.P., and Sara...it was kismet.....that I knew them and know them and love them. They are unique humans with their own crosses to bear. Their crosses are not bigger or heavier than ours. Just more public and (perhaps) more representative than ours.
Regarding the Sommervilles. John (and by extension Mary) were at odds with vpw, probably for a bunch of reasons, but the reason most sited, and the reason most vocalized by John Sommerville was because of his open disagreement with vpw over aspects of the "bible lands."
ror
I am aware of the "public" points of disagreement -- and I am aware of the more serious, not so public ones as well...
just happened to have known some who were at North Fork for years.
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That's right dabob...I remember quite well when Veepee made all those statements about his family standing with twi. I left in 87, so I missed Loyboys reference to it in his letter concerning Geer...interesting that he eventually is convicted by his very own words. A false prophet by every standard.
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Watered Garden
Washington/Weather, thanks for your post of the previous page.
WG
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alfakat
Don't mean to contradict THE THE prophet, but I sincerely doubt the 2 elder daughters or families were "standing" with twit in the 89/90/91 time frame. The Sommervilles, in particular, had to practically be dragged kicking and screaming to Living Vic in '82; they had been on the outs with the old man for years at that point... I really can't see the Martins lending their support to cretin loy; maybe to Mrs. W but not big forehead's version of twit...
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engine
back atcha, Excathedra.
Alfakat is right. The Sommervilles did not want to be involved on a deep level. I forgot about that
and
not that what VP said had any wieght, but I remember him saying that thing many times about the Wierwille clan being involved.
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excathedra
were there tears on stage along the way and some little blonde haired boy ? or am i hallucinating ?
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alfakat
yes, ex, his vicness-ness had had a family xmas at gunnysack with all the family and guilted them about standing with THE WAY come h or high water. That ding-dong "stewardess" on the plane wrote it all down and we had to put up with it all at the next bore-ing weak....
it featured, among other bits of flotsam and jetsom, the idea that, IIRC, Luke?? Sommerville would be the prez someday -- IF,IF,IF the Whole Vierville clan stayed faithful til then, or some other such swill... and don't quote me chapper and wurst, get somebody else to back it up....
:D--> 
:P-->
edited for smileys...
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excathedra
oh okay so vp was the one hallucinating
ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha alfa
i think he had problems in the head, more than just the drambui
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Sunesis
I remember that, VP going off on how his whole family had to stand or the ministry would be lost, and of course, one of his relatives would be the pres someday. Keep it all in the family. I was surprised he wanted a family dynasty.
Of course, it was "heavy" and everyone was so serious afterwards. I kept thinking, why have the corps when we have blatent nepotism going on here.
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jardinero
Yeah, Alfie - -
Didn't we all receive 8 x 10 glossies of the entire clan that year, or am I thinking of another time?
J.
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waterbuffalo
Yeah, Sunesis, I remember thinking the same thing.
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alfakat
yes, Jardi -- a full boat, all the kids photo, I believe you are right.
I remember getting together with some fellow 6kcktpphhtt kork yahoos afterwards and wondering where the hell all this stuff came from and was it real and did the "stewardess" have a screw loose or two and other not-ready-for-main stage type questions...
excy, the more I look back and the older I get, there WAS more than a fair share of delusional thinking going on and I freely admit, I bought into far too much of it. Though all that stuff about his family and grandson was far-fetched, even then... maybe I recovered my sanity a bit more easily because I was just a wee bit of a mocking cynic...MMUUWWWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA** for you, excy....
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Cherished Child
"The Sommervilles, in particular, had to practically be dragged kicking and screaming to Living Vic in '82; they had been on the outs with the old man for years at that point..."
Really...?
And there are those who believe the Wierwille children were completely unaware of the highjinx their Father was engaged in. Interesting...
Well, I suppose it's possible. But if Mrs. W knew he was road testing Corp gals in the motor coach, I doubt this bit of information escaped the kids. I know that if I even suspected my Dad was boinking young women in a back yard RV, while my mom sat alone in the house, I'd have refused to have much to do with him. Does anyone REALLY believe the kids did'nt know about a lot of what Dr. was up to? In which case, I can certainly understand why they would be disinclined to publicly address such a shameful and scandalous legacy.
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alfakat
Cherish -- I do not know that much, but I do know how J S--meville went from being one of Vic's fair-haired boys to being in Tick's dog-house rather rapidly in the mid-70s. Of course, at the time I knew nothing beyond that. Now, with hind-sight and knowledge others have filled in and things I found out from those close to the S--villes, I would say, at least for J and M Wier. S--ville, they had to know what was up. I wish I could go into great detail but certain people who have never come out of the woodwork told me in confidence and there it will remain.
I will state that both of the elder daughters were very bright and not types given to much naivete...
Stuff happened at Emporia in my first year in rez wid da 6kcktppthhh kork and J S was well aware of it, having been there for a month on faculty teaching OT History. Remember, the Emperor thought his lock-box style new clothes were wonderful but eventually it was noted they were NO clothes at all....
ps I worked in Transportation whenever I was at HQ for bore week, raca and other big events. I did many airport runs, especially for muckety-mucks, vips and the like, including family members. Guess who got an earful from Dayton to Wirewillie road coming in for Living Vic in 82....uhh-huhh!
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waterbuffalo
Well, thanks for filling that part in for us (at least for me).
Karen Martin and her college prof. husband didn't seem like the type to support the questionable behavior of her dad and I have often wondered how long they kept up the pretense of being involved. Or, maybe they didn't.
Can anyone fill us (or me) in here?
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excathedra
bore week
laughing my head off
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Oakspear
Didn't Karen Martin edit her mom's book?
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alfakat
did she?? She certainly edited a number of vic's books.
I really think that was about as involved as they were over the years, except for vic's little rant about da whole family united behind vic. They were simply NOT a presence in wayworld affairs...
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excathedra
oh how i used to look down on those older ones for not being committed enough UGH
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Radar OReilly
Exxie,
Me too...sometimes I feel so guilty because of my "thought-life" regarding the older corps that had "tripped out."
Like you said, UGGHHHH...enough already.
radar
Alfie,
Yes, Karen Martin edited Dorothea Wierwille's book....I have to just say here, that Karen Martin is one of the most genuine, kind and real people I have ever known....in twi or out of twi. Her work as an editor is genuine, she is trained and is excellent at her job, she did it because of her love and respect for her parents, not because of any allegiance to twi.
Regarding the Sommervilles. John (and by extension Mary) were at odds with vpw, probably for a bunch of reasons, but the reason most sited, and the reason most vocalized by John Sommerville was because of his open disagreement with vpw over aspects of the "bible lands."
ror
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Radar OReilly
Just a comment (or five) regarding the Wierwille family standing with twi.
I feel as "empowered and informed" as anyone else on this subject....maybe more. This topic means different things to different people.
VPW did indeed say that the vitality of the ministry depended upon the Wierwille family staying involved, and the decline of "the ministry" would correspond to the involvement and support of the Wierwille Family. What some of the posters remember, is a video made in celebration of the 40th Anniversary, it was made for the way corps...it was called " A Day with the Wierwilles."
The paradox here...is the difference between what VPW described, his views, his wishes, his visions.....and WHAT REALLY HAPPENED.
Whether or not whoever is reading this believed what he said is true......what he said is NOT WHAT HAPPENED.
I was on staff from 85-94.....during which 1987-1994 I worked directly for A or multiple members of the Wierwille family. I have countless notes of meetings or teachings (private or public) in which lcm constantly referred to how important it was to have members of the Wierwille family stand with twi.
As twi became more bizarre, as lcm became more of a heathen.....the wierwille family members seemed to distance themselves from the twi establishment.
It is a lot of very personal, deep, heart wrenching, concepts to understand and process. Please don't crucify me and what I have said....I am trying to be as honest as I can.....and put it all in perspective. The Wierwille kids, Mary, Karen, Don, J.P., and Sara...it was kismet.....that I knew them and know them and love them. They are unique humans with their own crosses to bear. Their crosses are not bigger or heavier than ours. Just more public and (perhaps) more representative than ours.
ror
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Danny
Thanks ror
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Oakspear
Hey Radar, don't lump Martindale in with us heathens!
;)--> Makes us look bad 
:D-->
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DaddyHoundog
yeah---Im a good heathen!
Washn'Wear
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alfakat
I am aware of the "public" points of disagreement -- and I am aware of the more serious, not so public ones as well...
just happened to have known some who were at North Fork for years.
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