the faith of Naaman

[WordWolf]

quote:

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Originally posted by Stayed Too Long:

Belle:

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What about - you reap what you sow?

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I believe whole heartily with this concept.

My postings have to do with the possibility that VPW repented before he died. If you believe in prophecy and that Mal George is a prophet, his prophecy seems to indicate repentence. I can not imagine God being pleased with him if he did not repent.

If you reject Mal George as a prophet, or if you question the prophecy he gave, then you may or may not believe Wierwille repented.

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So,

MAYBE vpw,

who planned out, orchestrated and committed evil acts abusing his

office as a man of God

(think Hophni and Phineas for a more extreme example than vpw)

repented on his deathbed.

(We know he didn't repent sooner because he made no attempts to make

restitution to any of his victims, which would have been the bare

minimum proof he repented.)

The only possible evidence that has been offered that vpw made a

deathbed repentance is that MAYBE a prophecy was spoken about him that

said God thought he did a good job.

Granted, God loves all His children,

but saying they're "well-pleasing" to Him is not something He

casually throws around.

We know He said it to Jesus Christ, The Son of God, The Messiah, The

Redeemer, King of Kings and Lord of Lords, the Bright and Morning Star,

The Way, The Truth and The Life.

We're NOT familiar with God just tossing this statement around often.

In fact, that's the SOLE person we know He said that of. John the Baptist

and Paul didn't even get that treatment.

However,

I'm supposed to seriously consider that this was a genuine prophecy,

and disregard outright idolatry and worship of vpw,

such as statements like vpw being the only other human besides

Jesus Christ who faced off with The Devil outside of the Garden of Eden,

and how his believing, all by itself, was somehow protecting the entire

United States while he was alive.

Sorry, my memory's not that selective.

============

True, you may believe whatever you choose to believe.

I think you've failed to make even an arguable case, let alone

a strong case, that vpw repented even upon his last breath.

Or that such a repentance would cut a lot of ice with God.

[GarthP2000]

Thanks Wordwolf, for illustrating more clearly to some folks the main point that I was trying to communicate.

Interesting also how selective some people are as to what questions they don't address, particularly if it challenges their 'prophet'.

:-

[Lifted Up]

Would Elisha have been a good example to compare to VPW, since it was under his (Elisha's) "ministry" than Naaman was healed?Gehazi and his screw-ups fit the mold better, but he was not really involved in the healing.

[Mike]

Yes. :)-->

[Kit Sober]

quote:

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Would Elisha have been a good example to compare to VPW, since it was under his (Elisha's) "ministry" than Naaman was healed?Gehazi and his screw-ups fit the mold better, but he was not really involved in the healing.

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Exactly. Gehazi (vpw in our case) was not the healer. It seems to me that whenever a person does take credit for healing he/she steps onto dangerous ground.

Gehazi did great when he just did as he was told. It was when he started to second-guess his boss that he got into trouble.

We are each responsible to the Lord ourselves.

The New Testament model could not refer to a spirit-filled person, who is supposed to talk with Holy Spirit himself, obeying another man 100%.

Although vpw drew a parallel between himself and Elisha, the real parallel, in my opinion, is between Gehazi and vpw. And Holy Spirit by His work whoever is the tender believer at the time, makes the ministry appear of the Elisha.

This would be my explanation for the healings, as well as the signs, miracles and wonders, I know did occur within my twi times.

vpw (and all of us) would have been much better off if vpw subjected his life to the Holy Spirit.

My opinion,

Kit

[waterbuffalo]

quote:

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guess I take comfort in the fact that every hidden thing will be revealed and the crooked ways will be straightened.

Regarding the Mal George prophecy...Isn't God pleased with all His children just like a parent looks past the dirty diapers, tantrums, back talk, notes from the teacher etc. to love and adore the child for the wonderful blessing that he/she is without merit. The dirty diapers et. al. will be handled as a side matter not as a matter of central focus.

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Oeno, you have a way with words, sir. Thanks for your words of wisdom.

As far as my opinion about Mal George as a prophet, no I do not believe he was one but I do believe there are prophets in the world today and I do believe in prophecy. Also, there are many prophetic people who are not prophets who also can give a word of prophecy.

[Ham]

I don't know about anybody else, but my "snake-oil" alarm went off pretty loudly when I heard that. Too bad I ignored it as many times as I did.

[Ham]

Even a prophet can speak presumptiously..

[Ham]

I am not trying to beat a dead horse here, but.. what did you actually THINK when you heard that prophecy? Here were my exact thoughts: "this man knows something that he is not telling us." Like a good renewed mind wafer, I dismissed this as thinking evil of someone at a vulnerable time.

I would really like to know- It may have been a long time ago, but if you remember, what were your thoughts?

[Raf]

If this Mal George "prophecy" is to be refuted, it must be done on TWI's terms.

Hypothesis: Mal George's prophecy proves nothing.

Evidence: Prophecy, assuming it to be real, can be interfered with by the understanding of the person speaking (which is why I Corinthians actually tells the prophets to check each other).

Evidence: The Intermediate Class not only taught, but SHOWED how a person's understanding can interfere with inspired utterances (remember the "muck and mire of the world"?)

THEORY BASED ON EVIDENCE: Mal George COULD have been speaking for God when he said what he did.

THEORY EQUALLY BASED ON THE EVIDENCE: Mal George's understanding, combined with grief and reverence for Wierwille, led him to (innocently and with sincerity) inject his opinion into this "prophecy."

Conclusion: Since the two theories are equally plausible, the statement Mal George made, in and of itself, proves NOTHING, and shame on anyone who suggests that refusal to accept Mal George's comment is a refusal to accept prophecy. It is no such thing.

[GrouchoMarxJr]

Hindsight is always 20/20...I remember standing up in a very "inspired" moment and shouting out..."The Bills will win the Superbowl this year!" There were a few there that may have considered me to be a prophet, I'm not sure, but in retrospect, I believe that my understanding interfered with this inspired utterance...obviously.

Mal George?...Right. Why not quote one of Wierwille's chief lackeys and longtime suckups to give God's opinion of Wierwille...seems about right for a waybrain infested with cult delusions. Pay no attention to the fact that Wierwille was a sexual predator and con artist...God's opinion MUST be what Mal George said...I mean, afterall, he was a prophet! Ha ha ha ha ha... Right, and I'm the fifth Beatle.

[Ham]

Hello Uncle H. You have some pretty good comments. I think a lot of wayfer mentality accepted almost anything that somebody, especially an "instructed" higher up would speak in "prophecy" as coming straight from the Lord, as long as there were no glaring irregulaities, and that it generally fit the bill of exhortation and/or comfort.

I don't know.. this one really did not sit right with me. Quite true that hindsight is always 20-20! But you know, all of those little doubts and funny feelings about stuff through the years , along with the stuff "put on the back burner" really start to add up.