quote:I hope you don't mind me lurking and perhaps, throwing in the occasional comment. I apologise in advance for my ignorance concerning your former religion, but I hope I can learn from you, and maybe, even vice versa.
No apology necessary, you'll observe some here who were a part of our "former religion" are still somewhat ignorant in regards to it. That was part of their plan. --> :D-->
There's a thing here somewhere about TWI doctrine you might find interesting.
The foundational class from the late 1960's to the mid 1990's was PFAL, Power for Abundant Living. Some of the more clever spots call it piffle. Some call it worse, some consider it God-breathed.
Welcome- Refiner has quickly become a refreshing regular to this cafe. I hope you do too. It is great to have NBW (never been way) here particularly as we see how much we have in common with others who have left groups like JW.
I have a question, having visited the ex-JW board and seen some of the (yikes!) discussions that go on there:
do you still consider yourself Christian? You don't have to answer, but you DO have to try the coffee here. I'll have it for you in a second...
When I left I still considered myself a Christian, although now I have come to the conclusion that although I still believe in a Supreme Being, I dont consider the Bible to be the inspired book of God.
Thanks for the coffee although, I generally drink hot chocolate because I'm not too fond of coffee. But it smells good though! :D-->
With respect to Raf, I make the best cup of coffee here. I use either Papanicholaus Mocha Java or Peet's Arabian Mocha Java. If you ever tried it, you would be hooked immediately. However when I go out, (like to Peet's,) I get a double Latte and add sugar & cinnamon to it. It is to totally die for! OK, OK, maybe not die, but let me say this:
If they don't have either Mocha Java or Latte in Heaven, I don't wanna go!
In any event, welcome to GSC. Once you explore around, you'll find out about a lot of us. We're a fun crowd, and except for the Klingons present, we don't bite. :-)
ExWayDaryl
Lives in Franklin Park, Illinois with his sometimes quantum-particle cat, Alex
(You can see a picture of Alex in the "Every Picture Tells a Story" topic.)
Thanks Raf - that hot chocolate looks delicious :D-->
Have any of you guys ever been to Italy? Their hot chocolates are so strong, it's like they've melted a cholate bar, and added a tablespoon of milk to it! Mm-mmm
I think Refiner understands very well where ex-wayfers have come from. I think he has fit in quite well here at the cafe, as I am sure you will also. Some times it is good to chat with others from different cult backgrounds to see the similarities in their tactics. I bet you are relieved that you don't have to work so darn hard to be one of the 144,000 (did I get the number right?). I am glad I learned that I wasn't going to die if I left the household of The Way. I've been out for 1 1/2 years, and I am doing quite well actually.
The number is right but the concept of "working hard" to become one of the 144,000 is incorrect.
The 144,000 is supposed (by JW doctrine) to be made up of the early Christians, including those who were Christians during the Middle Ages and up until 1914. According to the JWs, the number was then sealed and the only ones who can become one of the 144,000 after 1914 are very faithful individuals who claim they have the heavenly calling. Those who claim to have this calling are heavily scrutinised, especially if you are young or have only been a JW for a short period of time.
welcome welcome...great to have you here. I have found it amazing in reading refiners posts...how similar the cult experiences have been...you will fit right in with us dear
Thanks for the clarification on the 144,000. The thing I wonder about that number is: Doesn't that make God a respector of persons? I always knew Him not to be. How do the JWs explain that if the question comes up? And what do they say happens to those who didn't "make it" in the 144,000? I'm just curious.
Oh, 1914. Is that the year JWs claim Jesus came back? If so, what is their proof? Sorry for all the questions.
If the number 144,000 going to heaven was sealed in 1914, then how is it somehow some can squeek into heaven now?
Does not sealed mean sealed in JW land?
Now, if I understand correctly, in order to get into heaven...we're back to works again?? I'm confused???
Wayfer Not,
I believe the others who are not part of the 144,000 will stay here on earth after the new heaven and earth to work here on the earth. Am I correct Girl from Oz or Refiner?
Also, do not the 7th Day Adventists believe the same thing about the 144,000? I believe they get this number from somewhere in the book of Revelation. Please correct me.
And you thought you had questions Wayfer Not! :P-->
Revelation is not the easiest book to work out but even here the 144,000 is plainly stipulated to be 12,000 from each of the 12 tribes of Israel - (Rev 7 vv 4-8).
This being the case how can people possibly interpret it as being JWs or Adventists or whatever?
Actually, its a matter that Ive only once noticed the Watchtower org answer. The answer they gave was that each tribe symbolized certain types of personality. One might be exceptionally compassionate and just. so 12000 compassionate and just men comprised 1 "tribe".
But this interpretation has been abandoned now, and the organization seldom explains the matter. I assume they think the 12000 x 12 subdivision is symbolic.
You get the picture.
That interpretation comes way back from a 1917AD book called "The Finished Mystery", a book that is much mentioned in JW lore, that noone has actually READ, because it has disappeared from the Libraries.
Of course the reason for its disappearance is that it contains many sayings that contradict current doctrine.
Of interest also is how so many women comprise of the 144000, yet these have no input into church meetings, yet these women are supposedly co rulers with Christ over an organization that they never publicly teach in. -->
Not to mention the fact that the 144000 understanding is interpreted as a LITERAL 144000 persons, yet the 12000 x 12 subdivision is not literal. The Watchtower is notorious for getting themselves into interpretive tangles like this one.
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No apology necessary, you'll observe some here who were a part of our "former religion" are still somewhat ignorant in regards to it. That was part of their plan.
--> 
:D-->
Welcome, I look forward to learning from you!
Work to attend, bye for now.
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Watered Garden
Welcome!
There's a thing here somewhere about TWI doctrine you might find interesting.
The foundational class from the late 1960's to the mid 1990's was PFAL, Power for Abundant Living. Some of the more clever spots call it piffle. Some call it worse, some consider it God-breathed.
Enjoy your stay!
WG
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ckeer
Welcome- Refiner has quickly become a refreshing regular to this cafe. I hope you do too. It is great to have NBW (never been way) here particularly as we see how much we have in common with others who have left groups like JW.
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Raf
And... how would you like your coffee?
I have a question, having visited the ex-JW board and seen some of the (yikes!) discussions that go on there:
do you still consider yourself Christian? You don't have to answer, but you DO have to try the coffee here. I'll have it for you in a second...
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Raf
Here you go. Cream and sugar are on the counter.
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excathedra
hi ozzie girl !!! so nice to see you here !!!!
lurk and comment away
as we were taught in The Way "learning is an exciting adventure" wayspeak sowwy
;)--> 
;)-->
i do believe we can learn from each other, thanks
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Refiner
Uh oh.
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Refiner
Im thinking of moving the entire contingent at JWO over here.
:D-->
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excathedra
you would all be banned in a heartbeat
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Refiner
Hey Exy, youve got to admit Ive been real polite in the time Ive been here.
I havent flamed anyone.
Amazing.
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The Girl From Oz
When I left I still considered myself a Christian, although now I have come to the conclusion that although I still believe in a Supreme Being, I dont consider the Bible to be the inspired book of God.
Thanks for the coffee although, I generally drink hot chocolate because I'm not too fond of coffee. But it smells good though!
:D-->
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Raf
Picky picky.
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ExWayDaryl
Dear TGFO,
With respect to Raf, I make the best cup of coffee here. I use either Papanicholaus Mocha Java or Peet's Arabian Mocha Java. If you ever tried it, you would be hooked immediately. However when I go out, (like to Peet's,) I get a double Latte and add sugar & cinnamon to it. It is to totally die for! OK, OK, maybe not die, but let me say this:
If they don't have either Mocha Java or Latte in Heaven, I don't wanna go!
In any event, welcome to GSC. Once you explore around, you'll find out about a lot of us. We're a fun crowd, and except for the Klingons present, we don't bite. :-)
ExWayDaryl
Lives in Franklin Park, Illinois with his sometimes quantum-particle cat, Alex
(You can see a picture of Alex in the "Every Picture Tells a Story" topic.)
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The Girl From Oz
Thanks Raf - that hot chocolate looks delicious
:D-->
Have any of you guys ever been to Italy? Their hot chocolates are so strong, it's like they've melted a cholate bar, and added a tablespoon of milk to it! Mm-mmm
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Nottawayfer
Welcome to the cafe Girl from Oz.
I think Refiner understands very well where ex-wayfers have come from. I think he has fit in quite well here at the cafe, as I am sure you will also. Some times it is good to chat with others from different cult backgrounds to see the similarities in their tactics. I bet you are relieved that you don't have to work so darn hard to be one of the 144,000 (did I get the number right?). I am glad I learned that I wasn't going to die if I left the household of The Way. I've been out for 1 1/2 years, and I am doing quite well actually.
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The Girl From Oz
The number is right but the concept of "working hard" to become one of the 144,000 is incorrect.
The 144,000 is supposed (by JW doctrine) to be made up of the early Christians, including those who were Christians during the Middle Ages and up until 1914. According to the JWs, the number was then sealed and the only ones who can become one of the 144,000 after 1914 are very faithful individuals who claim they have the heavenly calling. Those who claim to have this calling are heavily scrutinised, especially if you are young or have only been a JW for a short period of time.
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Refiner
Hey Priscilla.
My thread is under this one and its a masterpiece, yet Ive only got 11 replies.
:(-->
You come on here and post FLUFF about chocolate and get 16 replies.
Why is that huh?
Not happy
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The Girl From Oz
Guess I post what the public wants
:P-->
(see, everybody - told ya that Refiner is a gruff
;)-->)
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rascal
welcome welcome...great to have you here. I have found it amazing in reading refiners posts...how similar the cult experiences have been...you will fit right in with us dear
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Nottawayfer
Girl from Oz,
Thanks for the clarification on the 144,000. The thing I wonder about that number is: Doesn't that make God a respector of persons? I always knew Him not to be. How do the JWs explain that if the question comes up? And what do they say happens to those who didn't "make it" in the 144,000? I'm just curious.
Oh, 1914. Is that the year JWs claim Jesus came back? If so, what is their proof? Sorry for all the questions.
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A la prochaine
OH OH OH OH.. I have a question too!!!
If the number 144,000 going to heaven was sealed in 1914, then how is it somehow some can squeek into heaven now?
Does not sealed mean sealed in JW land?
Now, if I understand correctly, in order to get into heaven...we're back to works again?? I'm confused???
Wayfer Not,
I believe the others who are not part of the 144,000 will stay here on earth after the new heaven and earth to work here on the earth. Am I correct Girl from Oz or Refiner?
Also, do not the 7th Day Adventists believe the same thing about the 144,000? I believe they get this number from somewhere in the book of Revelation. Please correct me.
And you thought you had questions Wayfer Not!
:P-->
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Refiner
Prisca.
21 replies to 11.
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Trefor Heywood
Revelation is not the easiest book to work out but even here the 144,000 is plainly stipulated to be 12,000 from each of the 12 tribes of Israel - (Rev 7 vv 4-8).
This being the case how can people possibly interpret it as being JWs or Adventists or whatever?
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Refiner
Well thats a good question Tref.
Actually, its a matter that Ive only once noticed the Watchtower org answer. The answer they gave was that each tribe symbolized certain types of personality. One might be exceptionally compassionate and just. so 12000 compassionate and just men comprised 1 "tribe".
But this interpretation has been abandoned now, and the organization seldom explains the matter. I assume they think the 12000 x 12 subdivision is symbolic.
You get the picture.
That interpretation comes way back from a 1917AD book called "The Finished Mystery", a book that is much mentioned in JW lore, that noone has actually READ, because it has disappeared from the Libraries.
Of course the reason for its disappearance is that it contains many sayings that contradict current doctrine.
Of interest also is how so many women comprise of the 144000, yet these have no input into church meetings, yet these women are supposedly co rulers with Christ over an organization that they never publicly teach in.
-->
Not to mention the fact that the 144000 understanding is interpreted as a LITERAL 144000 persons, yet the 12000 x 12 subdivision is not literal. The Watchtower is notorious for getting themselves into interpretive tangles like this one.
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