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Tom Strange
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Id also like to hear Lifted check in and get his opinion on the balk/pickoff of Pena..It looked balky to me, but Im not that clear on those rules...

Unfortunately I didn't see the game, but I'll give a couple comments on balks. Umpires can get pretty picky on the balk related tules, especially in the bigs, when they feel there is a deliberate attempt to deceive the runner. If there is even a borderline move to the plate, or if the pitcher throws ahead of his step from the stretch, or if there is no pause in the stretch, the umps will call that balk. Obviously umps are human and some will be pickier than others.

Calling the 12 year olds, though the rules are mostly up to MLB level, we do give a lot of slack since there is often no advantage being sought by the pitcher or being taken by the runner....i.e. they are still learning, and if we called balks too tightly, some would never get to really pitch and learn. In older groups, of course we gradually get more strict n the balk calls.

Describe the specific situation if you wish, and I will try to reply. But it sounds like one of those borderline calls.

I wish I were watching the series, but Ive been awfeully busy in the evenings, and if I'm gonna squeeze anything in, it will be the Penn State/Ohio State football game Saturday night. ( I'm a PSU alum and sister/hubby are from that other school).

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Runner on first, lefty pitcher goes well into his motion, runner goes, at last possible moment pitcher realizes that the runner is going and throws pickoff to first---To me the pitcher was well on his way homeward with his motion and his extending foot landed well toward home so that he had to throw almost at a 90 degree angle from his body to go to first.

I suppose that there is no real way to adequately describe it verbally--but thats fairly close.

Its a moot point now--I was just curious as I am not that familiar with the rule.

I missed last nights game ( the social life calls..) but did see the replay of the botched strike call ( :biglaugh:). maybe its just because its October and it stands out more but all through the playoffs the umping has seemed to be inconsistant and questionable. I know that same guy who made the strike signal and then called a ball has had a rough Oct. with at least 4 or 5 completely bizarre moments like that.

Anyway as I said I missed last nights game---Im still thinking Rays in 5 or 6 --although Id love to see a 7th game

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Runner on first, lefty pitcher goes well into his motion, runner goes, at last possible moment pitcher realizes that the runner is going and throws pickoff to first---To me the pitcher was well on his way homeward with his motion and his extending foot landed well toward home so that he had to throw almost at a 90 degree angle from his body to go to first.

I suppose that there is no real way to adequately describe it verbally--but thats fairly close.

Its a moot point now--I was just curious as I am not that familiar with the rule.

I missed last nights game ( the social life calls..) but did see the replay of the botched strike call ( :biglaugh:). maybe its just because its October and it stands out more but all through the playoffs the umping has seemed to be inconsistant and questionable. I know that same guy who made the strike signal and then called a ball has had a rough Oct. with at least 4 or 5 completely bizarre moments like that.

Anyway as I said I missed last nights game---Im still thinking Rays in 5 or 6 --although Id love to see a 7th game

Well, right, verbal description doesn't do it, especially for a borderline call. But that's the ket, had the pitcher committed to home in his motion? Before knowing anything, I had a feeling you were talking about a lefty on the mound. They have an advantage in that they don't have to throw across their bodies, and can commit themselves a split second later in their delivery. Not to mention they don't have to look over their shoulders at the runner on first. I imagine that pitcher pressed the limit, like any smart picther would, but went too far in the ump's opinion.

The late Joe Garagiola once told of an umpire calling the runner "safe" , but signalling "out" . Of course there was an argument, but the ump said, "You heard me call you safe, didn't you? But I gave the "out" sign. And as far as 30 thousand people are concerned, you're out. So you're out."

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:)

Im sure that happens--but in the World Series it seems a little much---

I just read where the Dodgers offered Manny somewhere between $55-60mil for 2 years--which should make Hiway happy..

But its a whole new game when the offseason begins, I have to wonder if the Dodgers offered that to placate the fans. Although that would be huge money to turn down, knowing Scott Boras I sincerely doubt that he'd do anything less than 3/75m or 4/100m plus of course the blood of some fresh newborns and virgins.

Good Luck though--Id rather have him in that league than play against him in the ALEast

Edited by mstar1
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I'm suspicious of a 2 year offer to Manny. Everyone knows he's wanting 3 or 4 years, I doubt he'll take the 2-generous as it is.

Based on what I've seen of Dodger management-they're probably hoping he'll take the big 2 year deal, but will

not offer that money any further. Then, if Manny goes elsewhere, they can claim that they did 'their best', while trotting Andruw Jones out again next year.

Manny has made such an impact, and Jones is such a disaster, that for once the loyal Dodger fans may really revolt. Just pay the guy, already.

Otherwise we may be seeing if he looks slim in pinstripes.

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Thats what Im afraid of--rumors are circulating here of putting together a deal for Martin that may include Jones, not because the Sox need Jones but to eat his salary for the Dodgers which would open up some $$ for Manny...

Its a longshot but Martin is tempting--if something like that sweetens the pot for the Dodgers I'd be for it

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well, that deal would really put Dodger fan over the edge.

The Dodgers have been getting rid of catchers for the last 10 years. They still haven't been forgiven for moving Piazza. Then they traded Paul LoDuca when he was at his best. They then dealt Navarro who is only doing great with the Rays. Russell Martin is the Dodgers most popular player after Manny.

I'd be surprised if that deal is made, but then I'm always surprised by baseball.

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Theo... the catcher you want is in Texas...

From Newberg today:

The Major League Baseball Players Association has announced that Michael Young is the winner of the 2008 Marvin Miller Man of the Year Award, presented to "the player in either league whose on-field performance and contributions to his community inspire others to higher levels of achievement."

Among the off-field ventures that Michael and his wife Cristina Barbosa-Young actively devote their time to is Wipe Out Kids' Cancer, a non-profit organization dedicated to the eradication of pediatric cancer through innovative research, education, and treatment, while providing hope to children affected by the disease through funding and various events.

In 2005, Michael helped fund the furnishing of an outpatient physical therapy room at Children's Medical Center, and in 2006, he began the Young Heroes Scholarship program, which annually awards cancer survivors with college scholarship funds and laptop computers. In 2007, Michael and Cristina took 25 children on a holiday shopping spree in conjunction with the Hotel Ministry, a branch of Mission Arlington.

Michael is the first Rangers player to win the award, which is in its 12th year and, notably, is based on the votes of his fellow Major League players.

Derek Jeter and Albert Pujols were runners-up.

The Rangers will recognize Michael and Cristina at the club's Sluggers of the West Awards Dinner on Friday, January 23, at Eddie Deen's Ranch in Dallas. Josh Hamilton will be recognized at the event as the Rangers'

Player of the Year.

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Good for Michael :eusa_clap:

Saltalamacchia. Teagarden, Martin--I dont know, but as tough a decision its going to be (to let the cap'n go)-catching is a situation that has to be dealt with in these parts --its one position where there is no real keeper coming up through the system and as much as love Varitek and would like to keep him on board forever, offensively he fell way off the cliff this year...maybe give him 1 year then move him into a coaching position but I know dam well Boras is going to ask for 3 or 4-so unfortunately he's probably going--

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Runner on first, lefty pitcher goes well into his motion, runner goes, at last possible moment pitcher realizes that the runner is going and throws pickoff to first---To me the pitcher was well on his way homeward with his motion and his extending foot landed well toward home so that he had to throw almost at a 90 degree angle from his body to go to first.

I suppose that there is no real way to adequately describe it verbally--but thats fairly close.

Its a moot point now--I was just curious as I am not that familiar with the rule.

I missed last nights game ( the social life calls..) but did see the replay of the botched strike call ( :biglaugh: ). maybe its just because its October and it stands out more but all through the playoffs the umping has seemed to be inconsistant and questionable. I know that same guy who made the strike signal and then called a ball has had a rough Oct. with at least 4 or 5 completely bizarre moments like that.

Anyway as I said I missed last nights game---Im still thinking Rays in 5 or 6 --although Id love to see a 7th game

That guy is Kerwin Danley, who played college ball (outfield) at San Diego State University with Mark Grace. He was also at first base for game one (and missed the balk call). I think Danley now lives in California, but used to live in the Phoenix area. In the mid-1990s, I went to the same gym he did (at least he did during the off season). My daughter was classmates with the daughter of a gal that Danley dated for a few years.

I never really had much interaction with him... him being a big musclebound athletic type... and I was just going to get exercise...

The late Joe Garagiola once told of an umpire calling the runner "safe" , but signalling "out" . Of course there was an argument, but the ump said, "You heard me call you safe, didn't you? But I gave the "out" sign. And as far as 30 thousand people are concerned, you're out. So you're out."

The rumors of his demise have been greatly exaggerated.

He's alive and well, living in the Phoenix area, has season tickets to the Dbacks and fills in occasionally for Mark Grace when Grace goes on assignment for Fox Sports.

Substituting for Grace in the TV broadcast booth.

I'm suspicious of a 2 year offer to Manny. Everyone knows he's wanting 3 or 4 years, I doubt he'll take the 2-generous as it is.

Based on what I've seen of Dodger management-they're probably hoping he'll take the big 2 year deal, but will

not offer that money any further. Then, if Manny goes elsewhere, they can claim that they did 'their best', while trotting Andruw Jones out again next year.

Manny has made such an impact, and Jones is such a disaster, that for once the loyal Dodger fans may really revolt. Just pay the guy, already.

Otherwise we may be seeing if he looks slim in pinstripes.

The bright side of that kind of deal for the Dodgers and Manny for me is that might make it difficult for the Dodgers to afford enough of a team around Manny to be much better than they were this year.

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The rumors of his demise have been greatly exaggerated.

He's alive and well, living in the Phoenix area, has season tickets to the Dbacks and fills in occasionally for Mark Grace when Grace goes on assignment for Fox Sports.

Ooooppppssss..........

Sorry Joe, I got you mixed up with my umpiring hero, Ron Luciano.

:offtopic: geez, Rocky, I've been watching the daily post count. If you keep up this pace, you might even overtake Excie in time. Of course, I suppose you might spool down a little after the elections are over.

Edited by Lifted Up
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Ooooppppssss..........

Sorry Joe, I got you mixed up with my umpiring hero, Ron Luciano.

:offtopic: geez, Rocky, I've been watching the daily post count. If you keep up this pace, you might even overtake Excie in time. Of course, I suppose you might spool down a little after the elections are over.

Unless we have a repeat of 2000.

I can't imagine catching up to excie...

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I'll be thinking that Lester's going to stay put :)

Some of the untouchables of last winter ...Ellsbury, Buchholz, ..and maybe atop prospect like Bowden could probably be had if the deal were right. There could be alot of shuffling this winter -- Julio Lugo, Mike Lowell, Coco Crisp---who really knows at this point? I'd love to have Martin ---or Teagarden

Im in no rush but I do expect some "creative movement" from Theo to switch things around.

With Papi aging and hurt a lot of the time and Manny gone--Texiera is also looking better and better.

My christmas list is getting mighty full already--Tex, Martin, Peavy ...or maybe Sheets and Im just getting started

I better go blackmail Santa

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I'll be thinking that Lester's going to stay put :)

Some of the untouchables of last winter ...Ellsbury, Buchholz, ..and maybe atop prospect like Bowden could probably be had if the deal were right. There could be alot of shuffling this winter -- Julio Lugo, Mike Lowell, Coco Crisp---who really knows at this point? I'd love to have Martin ---or Teagarden

Im in no rush but I do expect some "creative movement" from Theo to switch things around.

With Papi aging and hurt a lot of the time and Manny gone--Texiera is also looking better and better.

My christmas list is getting mighty full already--Tex, Martin, Peavy ...or maybe Sheets and Im just getting started

I better go blackmail Santa

As far as I'm concerned, you're WELCOME to Peavy!

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I'm seeing a dogfight for Texiera between the Angels, Sox, and let's not forget the Yankees, who may (should)be putting him at the top of their list.

Is this Martin thing wishful thinking on Sox fans part, or is there a reason to think this is going to happen ?

I don't see the Dodgers doing this deal, certainly not to get rid of Jones. And what are they being offered in return? JD Drew back ?

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That Martin is maybe available has been in the NY Post

You want a surprise name that could end up out on the trade market? How about Dodgers catcher Russell Martin? Rival executives say the Dodgers are not overly enamored with his makeup and at a time when front-line catchers are hard to find, Los Angeles could decide to see what his value is. The Tigers, Marlins and Reds are all looking for catching, and the Red Sox would be, too, if free agent Jason Varitek departed.

And a day or so later in Sports Illustrated

Martin wearing out welcome in L.A.?

The Dodgers were disappointed by the regression of catcher Russell Martin, who in the words of one Dodgers-connected person was "just another catcher'' this year. Only a year ago Martin was an excellent two-way player who won a Gold Glove and a Silver Slugger and appeared on the verge of superstardom. The New York Post reported that the Dodgers might even consider trading him.

Martin, Matt Kemp and to a lesser degree Andre Ethier still need to do some growing up, people familiar with the Dodgers say -- though the overall performance of the talented trio improved once Ramirez joined the team. James Loney, the fourth young Dodger stud, is said by team officials not to have been infested by the same maturity malady that has affected the others.

Whether any of it is true at this point, there is really no way of knowing as trade rumors have about 2% of ever being realized, but there are rumors (about 10 articles worth) that have surfaced over the last few months of a less than ideal relationship between Martin and the Dodgers front office...I really dont know if they would deal him or not---but given the year Varitek just had, it gives the Sox fan sites and the Boston papers something to talk about to fill the void now that the Sox season has ended--

Right now there is a lot of conjecture about possibilities especially since the Dodgers seem to have an affinity for ex-sox.. 2 top ML ready prospects? a prospect and a veteran? 2 prospects and aveteran? take a contract off their hands (Jones or Pierre?) in the deal?

They'd be a lot of ways to play it --maybe it will never happen---but its tempting to think about during these long nights of no games..

Speaking of which---I see there delaying in Philly-- its cold rainy windy and generally miserable here tonight lets hope they get this game in..

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I still haven't heard any Sox names proposed in this 'deal'.

And just what is a ML ready prospect ? There's no such thing until a player proves himself in the bigs. The Dodgers are loaded with guys who are still trying to prove they're ML ready.

And what veterans are the Sox anxious to unload for Martin ? I can't think of anyone the Sox would part with that the Dodgers need or want. Teaming Ortiz with Manny again looks good on paper, but there's nowhere to play him, so that's out.

I haven't heard any of this Dodgers front office unhappy with Martin talk. That doesn't mean it's not true, but you'd think the LA media would be at least mentioning it.

Looks like they're playing tonight. A baseball game starting at 10 pm. Great. I'm sure the east coast will all be up at 1 for the finish.

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The people that monitor these things have been pulling them out of the LA Press--The most recent I saw was Billingsleyseemingly calling out Martin for his gamecalling after his NLCS loss

after the game, Billingsley was awkward when answering questions and unable to provide any details other than saying that catcher Russell Martin calls the games behind the plate and that "pitch selection" was most likely the culprit.

"I felt good; I felt I had good stuff," said Billingsley, who added that a lot of the hits went the other way or found holes. "I didn't do well [Friday]and I didn't get the job done and I think pitch selection was kind of what the problem was."

There is also talk that his offensive downtick over the second half of '07 and through '08 that seems (or so it is rumoured) to have the FO concerned ( I think its overwork myself but thats awhole other story--)

As far as ML prospects Lowrie is ready and proven in a half season as an infielder, There are boatload of(well at least 3) top rated pitchers,( Masterson just pitched well in the playoffs, will probably be a starter next year and be under control at short money for another 5 years) If Blake doesnt come back you'd need a third basemen which means either Lowell or Youkilis. Julio Lugo is available. You already have your fill of outfielders although Ellsbury or Crisp would also be available--If the Dodgers do offer Manny a huge $$ contract, I assume that they'll be looking to save in other places. The Red Sox having lost Manny and Schilling and others will dump about $40mil right off the top and have money to spend....

Im sure if the Dodgers are considering it, that some combination could at least get close to working for both teams ...but like I said, Im not privy to any actual inside workings of either team, only know what a few writers have said and am filling up my time.

Hey--games on! started afer 10.00pm --this is gonna be along night

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Billingsley's comments reflected badly on Billingsley-as least that's how I perceived them. Martin's offense did go down-and I blame it on overwork, too. He never wanted a day off.

The Dodgers already had Lugo-no thanks

Youkilis -now that sounds intriguing

Ellsbury is available ? What did I miss ? There is no need for Crisp or any of really.

Pitching is always welcome, though as Casey Stengel once said-"you have to have a catcher, otherwise there's all passed balls".

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Billingsley's comments reflected badly on Billingsley-as least that's how I perceived them. Martin's offense did go down-and I blame it on overwork, too. He never wanted a day off.

The Dodgers already had Lugo-no thanks

Youkilis -now that sounds intriguing

Ellsbury is available ? What did I miss ? There is no need for Crisp or any of really.

Pitching is always welcome, though as Casey Stengel once said-"you have to have a catcher, otherwise there's all passed balls".

It's not just you.

"Blaming" is not healthy TEAM behavior. I'm certain that most GMs share that particular view.

It's not the only factor, but it is certainly not a positive in Billingsley's favor.

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