Lifted,while I gotcha on here,does the batter still get credited with an RBI if he hits a sac fly and the runner on first gets thrown out at second after the runner scores?
Since I know the answer now, I'll add ... it seems this is a matter of running into a double play, not hitting into it.
Rhino is right. With no force, the play is reduced to a "time play", simply meaning if the runner from third touched the plate before the third out is made, the run counts.
Lifted... so... a runner being doubled up off of first after a fly ball out (ball thrown back to first before runner can tag up) is not considered a "force" play as far as run scoring goes?
Lifted... so... a runner being doubled up off of first after a fly ball out (ball thrown back to first before runner can tag up) is not considered a "force" play as far as run scoring goes?
Ok, its game time. Much as I would love the Rockies to continue their streak tonight, I expect they have a better chance tomorrow. However, winning either of these first two games would be a big leg up. going up against Webb in the first game is real tough, but then Francis for the Rockies is no slouch either. we are under way!
well, the rockies got past Webb, the Cy Young ace of the Babybacks. If the game continues this way, it bodes well for a Rocktober Series appearance. 5-1 in the 7th.
wow, 18 of their last 19, and they did it easily over the Babyback's ace, Webb. The 'backs looked shoddy, unlike most of their season, but the Rockies played near flawless, and great performances by the pitching staff. Lord ah bulieve! Whats that??? I heard something. Do I hear destiny calling????????
No trash talk Rocky. If you are referring to the term Babybacks, it was a reference that has been around awhile, and calls to note the youthful team, NOT anything negative. sorry if you took it that way.
Edited only to add that the Babyback term did NOT originate in Denver, and has been around all summer in national publications.
No trash talk Rocky. If you are referring to the term Babybacks, it was a reference that has been around awhile, and calls to note the youthful team, NOT anything negative. sorry if you took it that way.
It was a term that was used to characterize the youthful lack of success of the Dbacks in 2004. It does NOT fairly characterize the team this year. And Webb is NObody's "baby" anything. He IS a Cy Young winner... who had, overall, a better year this year than in the year for which he won the Cy Young. Obviously, the Rockies have gotten the better of him this season. No worries, he'll adjust for them next season (or maybe even next week).
It was a term that was used to characterize the youthful lack of success of the Dbacks in 2004. It does NOT fairly characterize the team this year. And Webb is NObody's "baby" anything. He IS a Cy Young winner... who had, overall, a better year this year than in the year for which he won the Cy Young. Obviously, the Rockies have gotten the better of him this season. No worries, he'll adjust for them next season (or maybe even next week).
OK Rocky I had only heard the term used referring to the young players this year, as even YOU have mentioned. (by the way, the Rockies ALSO are young, with Helton being the old man with 10 years in the bigs) As I mentioned earlier about Webb, I felt he was deservedly the threat to break the Rockies string, even IF the Rockies have done well against him this season.
All that said, with one road win under their belt, and against Webb in this series, the Rockies have got to feel good about their chances. I do NOT think it will go 7 games, but I do not think it will be a sweep either.
I think it was made clear that it was but a few, when it was pointed out that other fans identified the bad ones, who were then arrested. Like Matt Holliday said, the crowd was good, a few just made things look bad. I understand their anger, but I DO think the correct call was made (not that I am biased of course). The runner was out of reach of the base, AND he extended his elbow up and out to interfere.
Odd plays tonight. How often do you see a dribbling foul ball down the third base line (second inning) slowly roll back fair again in MLB? I had to make calls like this in little league as an ump, but I think it rare in MLB.
Then there was the last out of the game. down by 4 runs, what was the Diamondback's runner doing going past 2nd like that? They did not bring their A game tonight IMO, and it put them in a deep hole against a hot team like the Rockies.
You know,I'm not at all for fans throwing bottles,especially Rocky,'cuz he always brings a frozen bottle of water to the game,but I am a little bit pleased that Dbacks fans showed some 'negative' passion...You don't want to see people go crazy,but I like to see fans get passionate about their team,win or lose...I don't know,to me there's something very apple pie-esque about a stadium full of angry fans booing and screaming at some poor,little nonchalont guy in a blue suit...
I think the guy that made the last out sliding past second was their backup catcher---not really a guy noted for being a great baserunner...
Nice display of sportsmanship by (a few) of the DBack fans tonight... I hate it when that happens.
The actions of a few get the whole group labled as "bush league"...
Well, it WASN'T me! I wasn't in the stadium!
I've never seen that happen at a Dbacks home game before.
The actions of those few only get the whole group labeled "bush league" if people like YOU call the WHOLE GROUP "bush league."
And the fans in attendence didn't even get to see the replay. The call was questionable at best. And while I don't believe that call made THE difference in this game, the fact of the matter is that the NBA ref who cheated to earn the championship for the Spurs caused ALL officials in every major sport rightfully suspect.
And don't forget that the fans that got cheated by that NBA ref are essentially the same ones that potentially got cheated last night.
Distrust of umpire motives for making their bad calls will NOT fade until the commissioners of the major sports leagues take quick, decisive action to punish umpires and other game officials (in the other sports) for bad calls.
This game was lost for essentially two reasons. First, Webb AND C Chris Snyder made a couple of mistakes that made the difference in that 3 run inning... along with the fact that after the first inning, the Dbacks couldn't get anything going offensively.
I almost wish the loss would have been more lop-sided. The Dbacks have experience with blowing off blow out losses and getting their act together the next day.
I think it was made clear that it was but a few, when it was pointed out that other fans identified the bad ones, who were then arrested. Like Matt Holliday said, the crowd was good, a few just made things look bad. I understand their anger, but I DO think the correct call was made (not that I am biased of course). The runner was out of reach of the base, AND he extended his elbow up and out to interfere.
Odd plays tonight. How often do you see a dribbling foul ball down the third base line (second inning) slowly roll back fair again in MLB? I had to make calls like this in little league as an ump, but I think it rare in MLB.
Then there was the last out of the game. down by 4 runs, what was the Diamondback's runner doing going past 2nd like that? They did not bring their A game tonight IMO, and it put them in a deep hole against a hot team like the Rockies.
~HAP
True (what I highlighted)... but a one game deficit is NOT a "deep hole." If they get into the kind of hole the Red Sox got themselves in in 2004, I will admit it to be DEEP. And the Sox got themselves out of THAT hole...
The biggest benefit of the Dbacks being a young team this year in the NLCS is their pronounced RESILIENCE.
However, I am MOST thankful that I did not pay to see the game live.
You know,I'm not at all for fans throwing bottles,especially Rocky,'cuz he always brings a frozen bottle of water to the game,but I am a little bit pleased that Dbacks fans showed some 'negative' passion...You don't want to see people go crazy,but I like to see fans get passionate about their team,win or lose...I don't know,to me there's something very apple pie-esque about a stadium full of angry fans booing and screaming at some poor,little nonchalont guy in a blue suit...
I think the guy that made the last out sliding past second was their backup catcher---not really a guy noted for being a great baserunner...
As I said... it WASN'T me!
And I was thinking, when the fans started throwing trash on the field, and wouldn't stop boo-ing the umpires, that I was somewhat pleased that they WERE showing significant passion.
As to the last out of the game... I couldn't watch the whole game. I had to watch CSI. I tivo'd the game in case I missed anything I would want to review. But I DID see the bad call at 2nd base as it happened.
It looked like interference to me ... I found this rule 7.09
(d) Any batter or runner who has just been put out hinders or impedes any following play being made on a runner. Such runner shall be declared out for the interference of his teammate;
Rule 7.09(d) Comment: If the batter or a runner continues to advance after he has been put out, he shall not by that act alone be considered as confusing, hindering or impeding the fielders.
It seemed clear he came way off the bag and threw the arm up.
It looked like interference to me ... I found this rule 7.09
(d) Any batter or runner who has just been put out hinders or impedes any following play being made on a runner. Such runner shall be declared out for the interference of his teammate;
Rule 7.09(d) Comment: If the batter or a runner continues to advance after he has been put out, he shall not by that act alone be considered as confusing, hindering or impeding the fielders.
It seemed clear he came way off the bag and threw the arm up.
That YOU would see it incorrectly should surprise NObody.
gawd Rocky, you'll take the bait and argue with a tree...
I pointed out that it was the actions of A FEW... and (to the national(?) audience) it made your fans look bad... I don't think anyone would've blamed them for just booing...
Now (since you like to argue so much) take a look at the replay, the runner actually pushed off of the base with his foot to get to the shortstop... and then (of course) there's the fact that he also threw his elbow up...
quit making excuses, it's only one game of seven, I'm hoping your boys bounce back cuz I want an entertaining series... heck, someone's gotta lose and this game it was them... but the Rockies are on some kind of insane roll right now aren't they?
Perhaps Lifted, with more ump experience than I, will weigh in on the call, good or bad. Bottom line, game 1 over Rockie win, game two tonight.
Game 1 was sold out with walkup tickets just prior to game time, many of them to people who drove down from CO haha. But thanks Simon and Rocky for your explanations as to why there were tickets available at the official gate at face value. Old hat, lack of interest etc.
Two games today- We get a feel for the Redsox and Indians I have not seen much of either team this year. So I have no comment.
In the NL, The Rockies try to improve their poor road game record against a good left hander. The Diamondbacks try to deal with a blazing fast hidden fast ball.
gawd Rocky, you'll take the bait and argue with a tree...
I pointed out that it was the actions of A FEW... and (to the national(?) audience) it made your fans look bad... I don't think anyone would've blamed them for just booing...
Now (since you like to argue so much) take a look at the replay, the runner actually pushed off of the base with his foot to get to the shortstop... and then (of course) there's the fact that he also threw his elbow up...
quit making excuses, it's only one game of seven, I'm hoping your boys bounce back cuz I want an entertaining series... heck, someone's gotta lose and this game it was them... but the Rockies are on some kind of insane roll right now aren't they?
I watched the replay several times. It was a BAD call. It did NOT determine the outcome of the game. But it was STILL a bad call. I'm NOT making this BAD call into an excuse. But I STILL get to complain about it... even if doing so won't accomplish anything. So there! :P
I don't know what will happen tonight. However, the ONE thing this team learned -- through repeated experience THIS season -- is that they CAN and USUALLY DO bounce back the next day. If the Dbacks lose the series it will NOT be because of last night's game. If they DO win the series, it MIGHT be because of last night's game.
Perhaps Lifted, with more ump experience than I, will weigh in on the call, good or bad. Bottom line, game 1 over Rockie win, game two tonight.
Game 1 was sold out with walkup tickets just prior to game time, many of them to people who drove down from CO haha. But thanks Simon and Rocky for your explanations as to why there were tickets available at the official gate at face value. Old hat, lack of interest etc.
Two games today- We get a feel for the Redsox and Indians I have not seen much of either team this year. So I have no comment.
In the NL, The Rockies try to improve their poor road game record against a good left hander. The Diamondbacks try to deal with a blazing fast hidden fast ball.
~HAP
I can't speak to the Indians, as I haven't seen them until last week. However, Boston played three games in Phoenix in June. They won 2 of them. They obviously have an offense to be reckoned with... highlighted by Big Poppy and Manny. Both of whom can explode for big hits any inning of any game. Schilling, though hampered personally by his dumb politics and loud mouth (which, if he didn't need to focus on baseball wouldn't be a big deal), is the quintessential BIG game pitcher. He gives up plenty of home runs, but more often than not, does so with no runners on base, so it rarely hurts him that much. Other than that, we'll see how they do this week.
As to the Dbacks bats... the one thing those young players do VERY well (usually) is to hit fast balls... VERY FAR. So, there's an excellent chance they will have a good game tonight.
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rhino
Since I know the answer now, I'll add ... it seems this is a matter of running into a double play, not hitting into it.
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Tom Strange
Lifted... so... a runner being doubled up off of first after a fly ball out (ball thrown back to first before runner can tag up) is not considered a "force" play as far as run scoring goes?
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Rocky
I believe that is specifically what he said....
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HAPe4me
Ok, its game time. Much as I would love the Rockies to continue their streak tonight, I expect they have a better chance tomorrow. However, winning either of these first two games would be a big leg up. going up against Webb in the first game is real tough, but then Francis for the Rockies is no slouch either. we are under way!
~HAP
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rhino
looking pretty good for the Rockies so far 4-1
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HAPe4me
well, the rockies got past Webb, the Cy Young ace of the Babybacks. If the game continues this way, it bodes well for a Rocktober Series appearance. 5-1 in the 7th.
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HAPe4me
wow, 18 of their last 19, and they did it easily over the Babyback's ace, Webb. The 'backs looked shoddy, unlike most of their season, but the Rockies played near flawless, and great performances by the pitching staff. Lord ah bulieve! Whats that??? I heard something. Do I hear destiny calling????????
~HAP
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Rocky
So, you're sampling the trash talk from the Denver media?
I won't dignify your name calling with any response.
Congrats to the Rookies, er, Rockies.
And :( is my final word on tonight's game.
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HAPe4me
No trash talk Rocky. If you are referring to the term Babybacks, it was a reference that has been around awhile, and calls to note the youthful team, NOT anything negative. sorry if you took it that way.
Edited only to add that the Babyback term did NOT originate in Denver, and has been around all summer in national publications.
~HAP
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Rocky
It was a term that was used to characterize the youthful lack of success of the Dbacks in 2004. It does NOT fairly characterize the team this year. And Webb is NObody's "baby" anything. He IS a Cy Young winner... who had, overall, a better year this year than in the year for which he won the Cy Young. Obviously, the Rockies have gotten the better of him this season. No worries, he'll adjust for them next season (or maybe even next week).
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Rocky
Of course, the possibility DOES exist that I'm just a bit irritable at the moment... but I'll get over it. :)
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Rocky
And the attendence exceeded both 48,000 AND the number of seats in the stadium.
I think the news that they had unsold tickets was just propaganda.
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HAPe4me
OK Rocky I had only heard the term used referring to the young players this year, as even YOU have mentioned. (by the way, the Rockies ALSO are young, with Helton being the old man with 10 years in the bigs) As I mentioned earlier about Webb, I felt he was deservedly the threat to break the Rockies string, even IF the Rockies have done well against him this season.
All that said, with one road win under their belt, and against Webb in this series, the Rockies have got to feel good about their chances. I do NOT think it will go 7 games, but I do not think it will be a sweep either.
Peace-
HAP
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Tom Strange
Nice display of sportsmanship by (a few) of the DBack fans tonight... I hate it when that happens.
The actions of a few get the whole group labled as "bush league"...
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HAPe4me
I think it was made clear that it was but a few, when it was pointed out that other fans identified the bad ones, who were then arrested. Like Matt Holliday said, the crowd was good, a few just made things look bad. I understand their anger, but I DO think the correct call was made (not that I am biased of course). The runner was out of reach of the base, AND he extended his elbow up and out to interfere.
Odd plays tonight. How often do you see a dribbling foul ball down the third base line (second inning) slowly roll back fair again in MLB? I had to make calls like this in little league as an ump, but I think it rare in MLB.
Then there was the last out of the game. down by 4 runs, what was the Diamondback's runner doing going past 2nd like that? They did not bring their A game tonight IMO, and it put them in a deep hole against a hot team like the Rockies.
~HAP
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simonzelotes
You know,I'm not at all for fans throwing bottles,especially Rocky,'cuz he always brings a frozen bottle of water to the game,but I am a little bit pleased that Dbacks fans showed some 'negative' passion...You don't want to see people go crazy,but I like to see fans get passionate about their team,win or lose...I don't know,to me there's something very apple pie-esque about a stadium full of angry fans booing and screaming at some poor,little nonchalont guy in a blue suit...
I think the guy that made the last out sliding past second was their backup catcher---not really a guy noted for being a great baserunner...
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Rocky
Well, it WASN'T me!
I wasn't in the stadium!
I've never seen that happen at a Dbacks home game before.
The actions of those few only get the whole group labeled "bush league" if people like YOU call the WHOLE GROUP "bush league."
And the fans in attendence didn't even get to see the replay. The call was questionable at best. And while I don't believe that call made THE difference in this game, the fact of the matter is that the NBA ref who cheated to earn the championship for the Spurs caused ALL officials in every major sport rightfully suspect.
And don't forget that the fans that got cheated by that NBA ref are essentially the same ones that potentially got cheated last night.
Distrust of umpire motives for making their bad calls will NOT fade until the commissioners of the major sports leagues take quick, decisive action to punish umpires and other game officials (in the other sports) for bad calls.
This game was lost for essentially two reasons. First, Webb AND C Chris Snyder made a couple of mistakes that made the difference in that 3 run inning... along with the fact that after the first inning, the Dbacks couldn't get anything going offensively.
I almost wish the loss would have been more lop-sided. The Dbacks have experience with blowing off blow out losses and getting their act together the next day.
True (what I highlighted)... but a one game deficit is NOT a "deep hole." If they get into the kind of hole the Red Sox got themselves in in 2004, I will admit it to be DEEP. And the Sox got themselves out of THAT hole...
The biggest benefit of the Dbacks being a young team this year in the NLCS is their pronounced RESILIENCE.
However, I am MOST thankful that I did not pay to see the game live.
As I said... it WASN'T me!
And I was thinking, when the fans started throwing trash on the field, and wouldn't stop boo-ing the umpires, that I was somewhat pleased that they WERE showing significant passion.
As to the last out of the game... I couldn't watch the whole game. I had to watch CSI. I tivo'd the game in case I missed anything I would want to review. But I DID see the bad call at 2nd base as it happened.
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rhino
It looked like interference to me ... I found this rule 7.09
It seemed clear he came way off the bag and threw the arm up.
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Rocky
That YOU would see it incorrectly should surprise NObody.
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Tom Strange
gawd Rocky, you'll take the bait and argue with a tree...
I pointed out that it was the actions of A FEW... and (to the national(?) audience) it made your fans look bad... I don't think anyone would've blamed them for just booing...
Now (since you like to argue so much) take a look at the replay, the runner actually pushed off of the base with his foot to get to the shortstop... and then (of course) there's the fact that he also threw his elbow up...
quit making excuses, it's only one game of seven, I'm hoping your boys bounce back cuz I want an entertaining series... heck, someone's gotta lose and this game it was them... but the Rockies are on some kind of insane roll right now aren't they?
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HAPe4me
Perhaps Lifted, with more ump experience than I, will weigh in on the call, good or bad. Bottom line, game 1 over Rockie win, game two tonight.
Game 1 was sold out with walkup tickets just prior to game time, many of them to people who drove down from CO haha. But thanks Simon and Rocky for your explanations as to why there were tickets available at the official gate at face value. Old hat, lack of interest etc.
Two games today- We get a feel for the Redsox and Indians I have not seen much of either team this year. So I have no comment.
In the NL, The Rockies try to improve their poor road game record against a good left hander. The Diamondbacks try to deal with a blazing fast hidden fast ball.
~HAP
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Rocky
I watched the replay several times. It was a BAD call. It did NOT determine the outcome of the game. But it was STILL a bad call. I'm NOT making this BAD call into an excuse. But I STILL get to complain about it... even if doing so won't accomplish anything. So there! :P
I don't know what will happen tonight. However, the ONE thing this team learned -- through repeated experience THIS season -- is that they CAN and USUALLY DO bounce back the next day. If the Dbacks lose the series it will NOT be because of last night's game. If they DO win the series, it MIGHT be because of last night's game.
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Rocky
I can't speak to the Indians, as I haven't seen them until last week. However, Boston played three games in Phoenix in June. They won 2 of them. They obviously have an offense to be reckoned with... highlighted by Big Poppy and Manny. Both of whom can explode for big hits any inning of any game. Schilling, though hampered personally by his dumb politics and loud mouth (which, if he didn't need to focus on baseball wouldn't be a big deal), is the quintessential BIG game pitcher. He gives up plenty of home runs, but more often than not, does so with no runners on base, so it rarely hurts him that much. Other than that, we'll see how they do this week.
As to the Dbacks bats... the one thing those young players do VERY well (usually) is to hit fast balls... VERY FAR. So, there's an excellent chance they will have a good game tonight.
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Tom Strange
Well... I'm pretty sure I'm going to enjoy watching this series either way... two young teams going at it...
(If you take off your Dback colored glasses though, you can see him push off (propel himself) with his food off the side of the base towards the left)
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