..."it is their concept that God will not forget your works and accompanying
rewards on the basis that you continue..."
Okay, let's say I *CONTINUE* to serve with them until I'm seventy (70) years old .......and being old and feeble, I cannot continue to make it to all of their meetings, functions, etc. Then, this green-to-the-bone corps guy who is new to the area tells me that he's put me on the m&a list because I'm no longer faithful to twi.
According to *their* definition of continue ..........I fail and would lose my eternal rewards. Sheeeesh. I'm so thankful that my God is much bigger than their little pea brains.
Their concept is seriously flawed.
Doesn't it state implicity in the Word of God that "ye are saved by grace and not of works it is the gift of God"?
Or is this some kind of "new light" he came up with?
I left TWI after 23.5 years on January 11, 1996. One of the statements LCM made on a STS tape that helped me reach this decision was that he did not consider the people who had left the Way his brothers and sisters in Christ. The verse that came to mind was that Jesus Christ is not ashamed to call us his brethren (and I was still IN then!) ... if Jesus Christ isn't ashamed to call people who left TWI his brothers, then who is LCM to set himself above Jesus Christ? Oh, yeah, I forgot ... the MOGFODAT ...
I remember when I was in residence in the 14th Corps. Hearing some teaching on the crowns and the rewards from different teachers. Teaching - That we can't really know what what we will be rewarded for and what will cause the lost. The bottom line was if you just live your life (now theres a concept) and let God take care of the rewarding as He sees fit.
VPW used to say to that we will be surprised at the little things we will be rewarded for. Dont know that it is true, havent stood at the bema yet, but Imma gona, and I will find out at that time.
I don't wanat to be standing at the bema explaing my self. I'd ranther be reciving.
You know, LCM came up with some real devilish theories about many things to try to keep people from leaving.
I left in 86 and just fellowshipped with God and re-set my spiritual compass. Guess what? Ask the question and Jesus Christ will tell you more than likely. He does expect you to do your homework, but after that....
When you did Romans 10:9, whom do you think was present. Ever wonder? God, who has perfect foreknowledge (despite some idiots saying to the contrary), knew when you would make the confession.
And Jesus Christ was the one in physical person that you made the confession of Lordship to. Why wouldn't he? He was after all the one you were swearing allegiance to, DUH.....
Then we in TWI reneged on that oath and accepted a different lord like wierwille and lcm.
Another very sobering reality was put to me by the Lord himself one day:
"I will not be giving out rewards at the bema for how much doctrine you know. The rewards will be for the good works you did in my name representing me". Jesus Christ
Some of the things I was shown directly contradicted what I was taught in TWI.
The verse that comes to mind is that the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. A gift is not taken back, and rewards earned are not taken back.
So rewards will never be lost, because as another verse say: we lay up for ourselves a treasure in heaven where moth, nor rust, nor may I add LCM or TWI may take away...
And the search for knowledge, the research junkie syndrome is all out of whack with reality. Why do we study holy writ? This is a question that has perplexed many people.
The scriptures state to study to show yourself approved unto God and so forth.
The companion verse that explains why is: Jesus Christ, a man approved by God by signs, miracles and wonders... The study part of our life is to learn what we need to know to carry out the above in our walk in the exercising of the ministry of reconciliation we were given, period.
And the ministry of reconcilliation is not running PFAL, Worped, Momentus or any other class. It is in the exercise of power and representing Christ. Most of His time was doing, not teaching. His actions were the lesson...
Also, which ministry you stand with is your choice. Choosing to be in a ministry where you can represent Jesus Christ, and operate your ministry of reconciliation, as an ambassador for Christ is why you choose where you hang your hat. If there are no opportunities to do our Lord's work, you move on. Very simple..
For all of you who still follow a man instead of the man Jesus Christ, an on your knees (Not a TWI mental ascent) act of repentance is necessary for such a grievous offence of idolatry.
Only then can you move on once again with the things of God. Idolatry is after all a very grievous offence, and not to be taken lightly.
There's alittle MORE to the story folks..not Only did LCM say that we that left TWI would loose our rewards BUT BUT also that those that were still in SHOULD PRAY FOR US TO DIE, Because the longer we lived outside of TWI the more rewards we would loose and if we were to DIE right then and there we would still have some rewards left in the bag..
I wonder just how many Loy Boy has lost by now..Should we pray for him to DIE soon. I don't think so but I know that there are some that would love to just see him Disapear for along time...but I'ld rathere see him FACE his victums and reap the results of his own Stupid Actions..
I have been taught about the 'crowns'. And I have shared that teaching many times. Fairly simple-straight chapter and verse stuff.
In ministering to people it has always amazed me that so many people have been raised in churches yet they so often had never heard of any rewards or wrowns at all.
It does sound crazy that TWI would so completely go back against what had been their solid doctrines.
Crowns were/are used like a carrot at the end of a stick.....
How much better to simply live our lives as we ought ..because we OUGHT too....for it`s own benefits rather than with the idea of getting some reward?
I can see folks gathering round Jesus at the bema hands outstretched eagerly ... gimmeee ... just like my kids when they feel like they have earned their allowance...sounds like we are being paid off....or like bribery.....
I feel like I oughtta just get the job done because it needs doing rather than what we can get from God rather than what we can get by compliance...eh?
LCM used to try to scare everyone with the *loss of rewards* because he was a bully and a control freak....when he couldn`t stop people from leaving and he couldn`t make people die when they did.....he resorted to hurting the only way he knew how.....keep our friends and family from us (m&a) and torture folks with the idea that they would lose their rewards someday...In hindsight, I think it was all just one big temper tantrum when the big baby couldn`t get his way.
LCM used to try to scare everyone with the *loss of rewards*
Well if he believed what he taught ( I doubt he did). Even if he gets to get in line for rewards (IMHO he is burning with satan, one could only hope :)--> ) Even if he gets to get in line with his life. That bastard is not getting any.
I can see folks gathering round Jesus at the bema hands outstretched eagerly ... gimmeee ... just like my kids when they feel like they have earned their allowance...sounds like we are being paid off....or like bribery.....
Can you see lcm try that? LMAO
Talk about a kid getting his hand swatted. That will be one heck of a big wooden spoon.
Rewards........I don't know, and really don't care. a 35 year old man that had not really lived, but did do plenty of good things to earn some, if it's all true.
The arrogance of da man.. oh well. As if he is the one that's gonna be sitting on the big stool passing out ice cream and lumps of coal.. jeeze.
Come to think of it, that is who was at the great white throne in the AOS production- as if he was gonna be the one tossing the "critters" in the lake. Fat chance- probably go the other way around.
Let's face it, LCM's teachings and attitude concerning "rewards" was the OPPOSITE of what the bible teaches.
Whether you get em or keep em is really not the point...The bible teaches that we should be motivated by love. Love is "unconditional". If I am doing something in order to receive something back...that's called "conditional"...that's nothing more than working for a paycheck...the bible says that love is not puffed up and seeketh not her own...and that is EXACTLY what LCM did...he sought his own and was puffed up to the max. That's what his teachings about "rewards" were all about...competition! He wanted to be first in line to get his...as Hammeroni said...LCM portrayed himself in AOS as the "great one" himself. What a crock of .... that was. Think about it...LCM's entire mindset concerning "Christian ministry" was that of a competitor beating his opponent in an athletic contest. Maybe it was his repressed feelings from being a bench warmer when he played football. :D-->...he taught abundant sharing the same way...always strings attached. What do I get out of it. Did Martindale ever do ANYTHING during his time in twi, that wasn't self serving? The Lord gave up his life for us...martindale gave up us for his life....
And the search for knowledge, the research junkie syndrome is all out of whack with reality. Why do we study holy writ? This is a question that has perplexed many people.
The scriptures state to study to show yourself approved unto God and so forth.
The companion verse that explains why is: Jesus Christ, a man approved by God by signs, miracles and wonders... The study part of our life is to learn what we need to know to carry out the above in our walk in the exercising of the ministry of reconciliation we were given, period.
And the ministry of reconcilliation is not running PFAL, Worped, Momentus or any other class. It is in the exercise of power and representing Christ. Most of His time was doing, not teaching. His actions were the lesson...
Also, which ministry you stand with is your choice. Choosing to be in a ministry where you can represent Jesus Christ, and operate your ministry of reconciliation, as an ambassador for Christ is why you choose where you hang your hat. If there are no opportunities to do our Lord's work, you move on. Very simple..
The bible teaches that we should be motivated by love. Love is "unconditional". If I am doing something in order to receive something back...that's called "conditional"...that's nothing more than working for a paycheck...
The Lord gave up his life for us...martindale gave up us for his life....
Very poignant, Groucho! We were bribed into doing the things that TWIts wanted us to do. Bribed by the promises of eternal rewards which weren't theirs to give in the first place. THAT and IF we did them to earn rewards we were doing it for the wrong reason. I'm so ashamed....
I left TWI after 23.5 years on January 11, 1996. One of the statements LCM made on a STS tape that helped me reach this decision was that he did not consider the people who had left the Way his brothers and sisters in Christ. The verse that came to mind was that Jesus Christ is not ashamed to call us his brethren (and I was still IN then!) ... if Jesus Christ isn't ashamed to call people who left TWI his brothers, then who is LCM to set himself above Jesus Christ? Oh, yeah, I forgot ... the MOGFODAT ...
I was amazed when I read this ... I left the Way on exactly the same day after the same amount of time for exactly the same reason!
or -- might it be Crowns, like Life, Glory, and Righteousness??
And if it is Jesus who gives them -- who on earth (no pun intended) is qualified to say who will or will not receive them, because of what they do or do not do as regards to a certain cult they may have been associated with?
there's at least one thing my father taught his kids before he passed away-tactics
he taught us how to play chess and many other things-he has his rewards-what they are i have no clue
But Jesus Christ is Lord and it's in his hands.
Just thinking, since i work at a school and see all the teachers giving their all to help these students. Shoot, don't even try to tell me that God doesn't have a place in his heart for these people. Sure there are some that should probably retire because they have been in it soo long they have lost the love of it. But God is love-and you can't get away from that.
That love sets the standard in my opinion. If it don't fit with it, move on to something that does fit with love. Some go on strange trips and get very caught up on tangents, ego and extremes. I say lighten up and live. Tangents of what we are supposed to do that are so limiting that it hinders the person's real gifts.
I just helped a teacher who thought that she was sick because of what she may be doing wrong in her life. She was influenced by her sister who is involved in on of these limiting religious things. Told her that she has doing nothing wrong to get sick. Things just happen and we don't know why sometimes. God loves us and always will. I think i helped her, she went through half a box of tissues while we were talking. Bless her heart.
When you are sick your mind starts messing with you and sometimes it takes someone to help out. A fresh look. Someone who can help take that person out of such introvert type thinking and blaming themselves. Blame adam...lol...get off your own back. We are the hardest on our selves sometimes.
Didn't have to get her in a class or anything. Just two people talking common sense and love.
Fight or flight is usually the response to adverse conditions. Most choose to fight. Let's help them the best we can.
quote..."Didn't have to get her in a class or anything. Just two people talking common sense and love."
Ain't it the truth. I seem to recall Jesus telling the pharisees what he thought of their religious "activities" and how their hearts were far from being right. The religious self righteousness that oozes from these modern day pharisees is like a disease that blinds the heart...and yes, common sense and love must quickly be abandoned in order to enter the hallowed halls of twi's "elite".
I have a "belief" about rewards...in a way..which one morning I "woke up with"..& its this..when YOU smile at another person or just say "hi"..you get some sort of a reward...maybe your reward is immediate (the other person smiles back or returns your salutation)..or maybe they are eternal..who knows?? To me though, in having considered this for many years..it is for the other person (if you do it for them...just to bless them) & it is a deliberate choice..'cause one can refuse to smile or greet IF they're having a "bad hair day" or something..LOL..so just a nifty idea that I like applying in life..Hey maybe its TOO SIMPLE???
SecondJames, I LOVE to smile and acknowledge people. I always challenge myself to make someone smile or at least make eye contact in an elevator since most people stare at the floor or the numbers.
I love to make people smile. Sometimes that's the only good thing that happens to me on a particular day but it sure feels nice. It think it's part of "leaving people better than you found them." TWI talked about it, but seldom practiced it.
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Belle
Quote from kratos:
..."it is their concept that God will not forget your works and accompanying
rewards on the basis that you continue..."
Okay, let's say I *CONTINUE* to serve with them until I'm seventy (70) years old .......and being old and feeble, I cannot continue to make it to all of their meetings, functions, etc. Then, this green-to-the-bone corps guy who is new to the area tells me that he's put me on the m&a list because I'm no longer faithful to twi.
According to *their* definition of continue ..........I fail and would lose my eternal rewards. Sheeeesh. I'm so thankful that my God is much bigger than their little pea brains.
Their concept is seriously flawed.
Doesn't it state implicity in the Word of God that "ye are saved by grace and not of works it is the gift of God"?
Or is this some kind of "new light" he came up with?
Scratching my head in puzzlement.....
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Belle
I left TWI after 23.5 years on January 11, 1996. One of the statements LCM made on a STS tape that helped me reach this decision was that he did not consider the people who had left the Way his brothers and sisters in Christ. The verse that came to mind was that Jesus Christ is not ashamed to call us his brethren (and I was still IN then!) ... if Jesus Christ isn't ashamed to call people who left TWI his brothers, then who is LCM to set himself above Jesus Christ? Oh, yeah, I forgot ... the MOGFODAT ...
I remember when I was in residence in the 14th Corps. Hearing some teaching on the crowns and the rewards from different teachers. Teaching - That we can't really know what what we will be rewarded for and what will cause the lost. The bottom line was if you just live your life (now theres a concept) and let God take care of the rewarding as He sees fit.
VPW used to say to that we will be surprised at the little things we will be rewarded for. Dont know that it is true, havent stood at the bema yet, but Imma gona, and I will find out at that time.
I don't wanat to be standing at the bema explaing my self. I'd ranther be reciving.
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Belle
You know, LCM came up with some real devilish theories about many things to try to keep people from leaving.
I left in 86 and just fellowshipped with God and re-set my spiritual compass. Guess what? Ask the question and Jesus Christ will tell you more than likely. He does expect you to do your homework, but after that....
When you did Romans 10:9, whom do you think was present. Ever wonder? God, who has perfect foreknowledge (despite some idiots saying to the contrary), knew when you would make the confession.
And Jesus Christ was the one in physical person that you made the confession of Lordship to. Why wouldn't he? He was after all the one you were swearing allegiance to, DUH.....
Then we in TWI reneged on that oath and accepted a different lord like wierwille and lcm.
Another very sobering reality was put to me by the Lord himself one day:
"I will not be giving out rewards at the bema for how much doctrine you know. The rewards will be for the good works you did in my name representing me". Jesus Christ
Some of the things I was shown directly contradicted what I was taught in TWI.
The verse that comes to mind is that the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. A gift is not taken back, and rewards earned are not taken back.
So rewards will never be lost, because as another verse say: we lay up for ourselves a treasure in heaven where moth, nor rust, nor may I add LCM or TWI may take away...
And the search for knowledge, the research junkie syndrome is all out of whack with reality. Why do we study holy writ? This is a question that has perplexed many people.
The scriptures state to study to show yourself approved unto God and so forth.
The companion verse that explains why is: Jesus Christ, a man approved by God by signs, miracles and wonders... The study part of our life is to learn what we need to know to carry out the above in our walk in the exercising of the ministry of reconciliation we were given, period.
And the ministry of reconcilliation is not running PFAL, Worped, Momentus or any other class. It is in the exercise of power and representing Christ. Most of His time was doing, not teaching. His actions were the lesson...
Also, which ministry you stand with is your choice. Choosing to be in a ministry where you can represent Jesus Christ, and operate your ministry of reconciliation, as an ambassador for Christ is why you choose where you hang your hat. If there are no opportunities to do our Lord's work, you move on. Very simple..
For all of you who still follow a man instead of the man Jesus Christ, an on your knees (Not a TWI mental ascent) act of repentance is necessary for such a grievous offence of idolatry.
Only then can you move on once again with the things of God. Idolatry is after all a very grievous offence, and not to be taken lightly.
There's alittle MORE to the story folks..not Only did LCM say that we that left TWI would loose our rewards BUT BUT also that those that were still in SHOULD PRAY FOR US TO DIE, Because the longer we lived outside of TWI the more rewards we would loose and if we were to DIE right then and there we would still have some rewards left in the bag..
I wonder just how many Loy Boy has lost by now..Should we pray for him to DIE soon. I don't think so but I know that there are some that would love to just see him Disapear for along time...but I'ld rathere see him FACE his victums and reap the results of his own Stupid Actions..
Alright I'll calm down now...
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WordWolf
Well,
he was disappointed you didn't drop dead.
http://www.greasespotcafe.com/waydale/edit...romisedland.htm
As you may recall, there were people he said he'd he'd gladly kill.
"..because there are some of us who would gladly execute you."
(closing of this article)
http://www.greasespotcafe.com/waydale/html...homo-exerpt.htm
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Galen
I have been taught about the 'crowns'. And I have shared that teaching many times. Fairly simple-straight chapter and verse stuff.
In ministering to people it has always amazed me that so many people have been raised in churches yet they so often had never heard of any rewards or wrowns at all.
It does sound crazy that TWI would so completely go back against what had been their solid doctrines.
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rascal
Crowns were/are used like a carrot at the end of a stick.....
How much better to simply live our lives as we ought ..because we OUGHT too....for it`s own benefits rather than with the idea of getting some reward?
I can see folks gathering round Jesus at the bema hands outstretched eagerly ... gimmeee ... just like my kids when they feel like they have earned their allowance...sounds like we are being paid off....or like bribery.....
I feel like I oughtta just get the job done because it needs doing rather than what we can get from God rather than what we can get by compliance...eh?
LCM used to try to scare everyone with the *loss of rewards* because he was a bully and a control freak....when he couldn`t stop people from leaving and he couldn`t make people die when they did.....he resorted to hurting the only way he knew how.....keep our friends and family from us (m&a) and torture folks with the idea that they would lose their rewards someday...In hindsight, I think it was all just one big temper tantrum when the big baby couldn`t get his way.
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justloafing
Well if he believed what he taught ( I doubt he did). Even if he gets to get in line for rewards (IMHO he is burning with satan, one could only hope
:)--> ) Even if he gets to get in line with his life. That bastard is not getting any.
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justloafing
Can you see lcm try that? LMAO
Talk about a kid getting his hand swatted. That will be one heck of a big wooden spoon.
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justloafing
((Shellon))
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Ham
The arrogance of da man.. oh well. As if he is the one that's gonna be sitting on the big stool passing out ice cream and lumps of coal.. jeeze.
Come to think of it, that is who was at the great white throne in the AOS production- as if he was gonna be the one tossing the "critters" in the lake. Fat chance- probably go the other way around.
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GrouchoMarxJr
Let's face it, LCM's teachings and attitude concerning "rewards" was the OPPOSITE of what the bible teaches.
Whether you get em or keep em is really not the point...The bible teaches that we should be motivated by love. Love is "unconditional". If I am doing something in order to receive something back...that's called "conditional"...that's nothing more than working for a paycheck...the bible says that love is not puffed up and seeketh not her own...and that is EXACTLY what LCM did...he sought his own and was puffed up to the max. That's what his teachings about "rewards" were all about...competition! He wanted to be first in line to get his...as Hammeroni said...LCM portrayed himself in AOS as the "great one" himself. What a crock of .... that was. Think about it...LCM's entire mindset concerning "Christian ministry" was that of a competitor beating his opponent in an athletic contest. Maybe it was his repressed feelings from being a bench warmer when he played football.
:D-->...he taught abundant sharing the same way...always strings attached. What do I get out of it. Did Martindale ever do ANYTHING during his time in twi, that wasn't self serving? The Lord gave up his life for us...martindale gave up us for his life....
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Belle
This bears repeating
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Belle
Very poignant, Groucho! We were bribed into doing the things that TWIts wanted us to do. Bribed by the promises of eternal rewards which weren't theirs to give in the first place. THAT and IF we did them to earn rewards we were doing it for the wrong reason. I'm so ashamed....
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ToadFriend
Belle wrote:
I left TWI after 23.5 years on January 11, 1996. One of the statements LCM made on a STS tape that helped me reach this decision was that he did not consider the people who had left the Way his brothers and sisters in Christ. The verse that came to mind was that Jesus Christ is not ashamed to call us his brethren (and I was still IN then!) ... if Jesus Christ isn't ashamed to call people who left TWI his brothers, then who is LCM to set himself above Jesus Christ? Oh, yeah, I forgot ... the MOGFODAT ...
I was amazed when I read this ... I left the Way on exactly the same day after the same amount of time for exactly the same reason!
Very bizarre!
ToadFriend
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dmiller
What's an *eternal reward*?
-->
A *better shade tree* in Paradise?
A better grade of gold for your street?
A closer *mansion* to the *Big House*?
or -- might it be Crowns, like Life, Glory, and Righteousness??
And if it is Jesus who gives them -- who on earth (no pun intended) is qualified to say who will or will not receive them, because of what they do or do not do as regards to a certain cult they may have been associated with?
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CM
i think we might all be a little surprised at "rewards" and what they are...
what about those who pour there hearts out for people and never get into a religious concept
there are places in the new heaven and earth for all i believe
these cult/religious tactics really suck
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CM
there's at least one thing my father taught his kids before he passed away-tactics
he taught us how to play chess and many other things-he has his rewards-what they are i have no clue
But Jesus Christ is Lord and it's in his hands.
Just thinking, since i work at a school and see all the teachers giving their all to help these students. Shoot, don't even try to tell me that God doesn't have a place in his heart for these people. Sure there are some that should probably retire because they have been in it soo long they have lost the love of it. But God is love-and you can't get away from that.
That love sets the standard in my opinion. If it don't fit with it, move on to something that does fit with love. Some go on strange trips and get very caught up on tangents, ego and extremes. I say lighten up and live. Tangents of what we are supposed to do that are so limiting that it hinders the person's real gifts.
I just helped a teacher who thought that she was sick because of what she may be doing wrong in her life. She was influenced by her sister who is involved in on of these limiting religious things. Told her that she has doing nothing wrong to get sick. Things just happen and we don't know why sometimes. God loves us and always will. I think i helped her, she went through half a box of tissues while we were talking. Bless her heart.
When you are sick your mind starts messing with you and sometimes it takes someone to help out. A fresh look. Someone who can help take that person out of such introvert type thinking and blaming themselves. Blame adam...lol...get off your own back. We are the hardest on our selves sometimes.
Didn't have to get her in a class or anything. Just two people talking common sense and love.
Fight or flight is usually the response to adverse conditions. Most choose to fight. Let's help them the best we can.
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GrouchoMarxJr
quote..."Didn't have to get her in a class or anything. Just two people talking common sense and love."
Ain't it the truth. I seem to recall Jesus telling the pharisees what he thought of their religious "activities" and how their hearts were far from being right. The religious self righteousness that oozes from these modern day pharisees is like a disease that blinds the heart...and yes, common sense and love must quickly be abandoned in order to enter the hallowed halls of twi's "elite".
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Ham
Or it just could have been the splinters, heh heh.
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TheSongRemainsTheSame
lourdy have the merci any innies left behind
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dmiller
Mr H. -- Good point, should we expect any *splinter groups* coming from
THAT DIRECTION?!?!?!?
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justloafing
I thought they were called the Moonies?
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Second James
I have a "belief" about rewards...in a way..which one morning I "woke up with"..& its this..when YOU smile at another person or just say "hi"..you get some sort of a reward...maybe your reward is immediate (the other person smiles back or returns your salutation)..or maybe they are eternal..who knows?? To me though, in having considered this for many years..it is for the other person (if you do it for them...just to bless them) & it is a deliberate choice..'cause one can refuse to smile or greet IF they're having a "bad hair day" or something..LOL..so just a nifty idea that I like applying in life..Hey maybe its TOO SIMPLE???
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Belle
SecondJames, I LOVE to smile and acknowledge people. I always challenge myself to make someone smile or at least make eye contact in an elevator since most people stare at the floor or the numbers.
I love to make people smile. Sometimes that's the only good thing that happens to me on a particular day but it sure feels nice. It think it's part of "leaving people better than you found them." TWI talked about it, but seldom practiced it.
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