"the Way:Living in Wonderland"

[WordWolf]

WhiteDove:

quote:

Did anyone actually hear him play a guitar?

ALP:

quote:

I remember seeing a picture of him playing the guitar at some family table/roa setting thing...he was wearing shorts with white shoes (Herb Tarlick style) and a cowboy hat. That's the only time I remember ever seeing him have anything to do with any musical instrument. I remember the picture so vividly because I had no clue he played....

dmiller:

quote:

Ala -- I remember that pic too. I think it may be in one of the old way magazines (roa edition -- mid 70's)....

Whitedove:

quote:

You are correct it was at the ROA family table 1974. Now not being

a player I will leave the critique up to someone else maybe Socks or Ted.

But none the less he did play and sing so the answer is yes I did see him. I

remember it also for the same reason as you as I had never seen him with a

guitar. Somewhere around I have some pictures of it.

Here's how I understand this exchange.

First, WhiteDove asks if anyone heard vpw play a guitar.

(This means WhiteDove has not heard him play,nor seem him play, correct?)

Then A La Prochaine and dmiller mention pictures they saw of vpw with a guitar.

Then WhiteDove says it was the ROA family table 1974.

"But none the less he did play."

Um, I missed something, WhiteDove.

Did their posts refresh your memory of a time you sat at the Family Tables at

ROA 1974? Did you sit there at the Family Table, see vpw walk over with a guitar,

and play and sing?

Or, did you see the same PICTURE and have you concluded that the PICTURE means

he played and sang?

I've seen plenty of pictures of politicians driving a tank or piloting a jet

fighter, and that doesn't mean they did either. I've seen pics of people with an

eyepatch and hand-hook, and that doesn't mean they're missing a hand or eye-

that's posed and that's a costume.

If you were personally THERE and HEARD him strum the strings and sing something

(whether or not he can hold a note even in a bucket) is a big difference from a

picture. Please clarify.

If you HAVE, at least let us know if he was roughly on-key, or if it was like

watching William Hung perform "She Bangs". That's a separate question.

(No, I don't want a professional critique-I just want to know if he was awful or

at least passable. One or the other.)

[WordWolf]

All attend and give heed! Sunesis has posted something especially noteworthy!

quote:

Originally posted by Sunesis:

Here's a great statement when he was talking about Rinker and how she pushed him:

...but the Bible is the Word of God... in all my years of school-not believing it anyway.

Note: "Not believing it [the Bible] anyway."

I can't believe he let that slip.

I have often thought he was not born again - here he basically admits with all his education,he did not believe the Bible. This is no wonder, many pastors, reverends and people who make a living pastoring their flocks don't either.

VP's concern was his ministry and his people. His "product" was the Word. It paid off handsomely.

*blink* *blink*

Holy moley!

How did I miss THIS one?????

Let's check the timeframes here....

vpw grows up neglecting his chores. Harry thinks he's "preaching to the trees" but

never SAW him preaching until over a decade later.

As a child, he saw a preacher, and supposedly said "I want to be like you."

As a teenager, he was a showoff and a bully. He's remembered for tearing up the

neighborhood on a motorcycle, and may or may not have played music and sang.

(He claims he did.) When he was in high school, he told his dad he wanted to study

for the ministry and Harry said "he'd always liked to study."

NOTHING about "I have a deep desire to serve God" or "I want to see others serve

God". Just about study.

vpw himself said that "First, I thought I wanted to be a doctor, then a lawyer;

but by my junior year in college, I had my heart set on the ministry."

So, it was a profession, like a doctor or a lawyer, as he saw it.

No deep commitment then. Apparently, no deep commitment SOONER, as Harry either

told the truth or he didn't. Either vpw told his Dad that in high school while he

was thinking of other professions, or he NEVER said that in high school and Harry's

memory added it (possible, but I'm reluctant to START there.)

When he entered the seminary, the neighbors thought he was

morally bankrupt. He learned to compose a sermon and get people involved.

His first church was in Payne, Ohio. His first sermons were there, in 1941.

There he demonstrated an ability to "preach" "good" and "active" and

"get young people interested". There were no inner depths resembling what he

taught later.

In summer of 1942, Rosalind Rinker dogged him "on the Bible being the Word

of God." He's "never heard that in all his years of school-not believing it anyway."

That means that the summer of 1942 was the EARLIEST vpw believed the Bible was

the Word of God.

quote:

"She jarred me, at a time when I was searching and discouraged, with the idea again

that the Word of God really WAS the Will of God. It got me started on the right

track."

So, his entire time in college studying to be a minister, and the entire FIRST YEAR

of his pastorate, he had not yet STARTED to believe the Bible is the Word of God.

His entire upbringing BEFORE that, he hadn't believed it either.

Rufus Moseley said, of the Spirit, years later,

"I'm full, but I can't give it to you, and I don't know why."

I think we know why, Rufus-vpw wasn't a real Christian at the time, so he could not

manifest the new birth outwards. That's the external evidence of an internal reality

he did not HAVE.

=======

Bra-vo, Sunesis.

Take a bow.

[Ham]

quote:

In summer of 1942, Rosalind Rinker dogged him "on the Bible being the Word

of God." He's "never heard that in all his years of school-not believing it anyway."

Ah, I think I see the key to all of this.. maybe subliminally, he was telling us the truth?

"never HEARD that in all his years.."

Lessee.. Ma and Pa dragged young vp to church every sunday.. fifty or so times a YEAR.. and he didn't hear it. Not that they weren't SAYING it.

When he was a town bully, wearing a leather jacket and riding his motorcycle in town while standing on the seat.. he didn't HEAR the message.. not that they weren't giving it.

You have to remember, we didn't have quite the separation of church and state in those days.. they studied the Bible as part of the friggin curriculum.

YEARS in Seminary, and he didn't HEAR that the Bible is the Word of God???!! What seminary did he attend?? First church of Satan? You'd think so by his description..

Honestly, I think this is correct. He did NOT "hear" it. Not that they didn't try..

Finally, we come to this "vivacious" lady, that had to practically beat the h*ll out of him to finally "hear" it.

Speaks a great deal about his character, at least to me.

Perhaps he SUCCUMBED to this kind of treatment.

[WhiteDove]

Actually WW while you were busy pontificating your version of The Way Living in Love you missed the first post on page 12 by shazdancer.

To which I replied Yes. Then Ala posted and I confirmed her post that it was a ROA family table. Yes I was there it was in Sidney toward the east end of the fairgrounds on the way out of the gate to the little grocery store at the edge of the grounds. If you want to pay the airfair I most likely could find the spot for you. The pictures I have somewhere in storage are ones I took with some sort of camera that I most likely would not want to admit I owned.

As Ala said it was a strange thing I was there to see Dove (no relation) a band from here who played later on.

Ok I googled the song and came up with two choices. I think this one was it but it has been a few years. Since it is about dogs I'd guess this one.

Artist: Grandpa Jones Tabs/Chords

Song: Old Rattler Tab

OLD RATTLER

Recorded by Grandpa Jones

[G] Old Rattler was a good old dog; As blind as he could [D] be

Ev'ry night 'bout supper time; I believe that dog could [G] see.

Refrain:

[G] Here! Rattler, Here! Here!; Here! Rattler! [D] Here!

Call old Rattler from the barn; Here! Rattler! [G] Here!

Old Rattler tree'd the other night; And I tho't he'd tree'd a 'coon

When I come to find out; He was barkin' at the moon./Refrain:

Well, grandma had a yeller hen; We set her as you know

We set her on three buzzard eggs; And hatched out one old crow./Refrain:

Grandpa had a muley cow; She was muley when she's born

It took a jaybird forty year; To fly from horn to horn./Refrain:

Now if I had a needle and thread; As fine as I could sew

I'd sew my sweetheart to my back; And down the road I'd go./Refrain:

Old Rattler was a smart old dog; Even tho' he was blind

He wouldn't hurt one single thing; Tho' he was very fine.

One night I saw a big fat 'coon; Climb up in a tree

I called old Rattler right away; To get 'im down fer me.

But Rattler wouldn't do it; Because he liked that 'coon

I saw them walkin' paw in paw; Later by the light of the moon./Refrain:

Now old Rattler's dead and gone; Like all good dogs do

You better not act a dog yourself; Or you'll be goin' there too./Refrain:

As I said not being a player I will refrain from critique but he did play the guitar. He was not Les Paul,or Clapton by any strech but it was passable. Thinking back it is odd that they did not record it and sell it to the masses on tape even JP got a record deal.

[WordWolf]

quote:

Originally posted by WhiteDove:

Actually WW while you were busy pontificating your version of The Way Living in Love you missed the first post on page 12 by shazdancer.

If you mean her first post on that page (it's 3rd from the bottom), I did not

miss it. (If you mean another post, it's not on page 12.)

In that post, she asked if anyone played a guitar. She said he couldn't sing.

quote:

To which I replied Yes.

Actually, your exact post was

"Did anyone actually hear him play a guitar?

-->"

I read HER post just fine. I read the WORDS on your post just fine.

I missed that " --> " meant "I did". Forgive me-I'm not used to that

particular piece of netslang. I thought you were WAVING, and it wasn't part of

the body of the post.

quote:

Then Ala posted

She seemed to read your post the same way I did-you asked the question, and

waved, being a friendly neighbor. Apparently, her netslang isn't up to snuff to

keep up with you either.

quote:

and I confirmed her post that it was a ROA family table. Yes I was there

Ok, that answers the MAIN question. You were there and saw it.

quote:

It was in Sidney toward the east end of the fairgrounds on the way out of the gate to the little grocery store at the edge of the grounds. If you want to pay the airfair I most likely could find the spot for you. The pictures I have somewhere in storage are ones I took with some sort of camera that I most likely would not want to admit I owned.

Personally, if you say you were there, your word is

good enough for me-I need no other confirmation.

quote:

As Ala said it was a strange thing I was there to see Dove (no relation) a band from here who played later on.

Ok I googled the song and came up with two choices. I think this one was it but it has been a few years. Since it is about dogs I'd guess this one.

Artist: Grandpa Jones Tabs/Chords

Song: Old Rattler Tab

OLD RATTLER

Recorded by Grandpa Jones

[G] Old Rattler was a good old dog; As blind as he could [D] be

Ev'ry night 'bout supper time; I believe that dog could [G] see.

Refrain:

[G] Here! Rattler, Here! Here!; Here! Rattler! [D] Here!

Call old Rattler from the barn; Here! Rattler! [G] Here!

Old Rattler tree'd the other night; And I tho't he'd tree'd a 'coon

When I come to find out; He was barkin' at the moon./Refrain:

Well, grandma had a yeller hen; We set her as you know

We set her on three buzzard eggs; And hatched out one old crow./Refrain:

Grandpa had a muley cow; She was muley when she's born

It took a jaybird forty year; To fly from horn to horn./Refrain:

Now if I had a needle and thread; As fine as I could sew

I'd sew my sweetheart to my back; And down the road I'd go./Refrain:

Old Rattler was a smart old dog; Even tho' he was blind

He wouldn't hurt one single thing; Tho' he was very fine.

One night I saw a big fat 'coon; Climb up in a tree

I called old Rattler right away; To get 'im down fer me.

But Rattler wouldn't do it; Because he liked that 'coon

I saw them walkin' paw in paw; Later by the light of the moon./Refrain:

Now old Rattler's dead and gone; Like all good dogs do

You better not act a dog yourself; Or you'll be goin' there too./Refrain:

As I said not being a player I will refrain from critique but he did play the guitar. He was not Les Paul,or Clapton by any strech but it was passable. Thinking back it is odd that they did not record it and sell it to the masses on tape even JP got a record deal.

Ok, that answers my OTHER question.

That is, he actually DID play the guitar, if not up to a professional standard,

but he did PLAY. (Probably knew 3 chords, could play backup in a pinch.)

His singing ability, I got from shazdancer, was something Simon Cowell would have

some unflattering terms for.

I can speculate why they didn't (HE didn't) try to release it as a record,

but I think I've used up my speculation quota for the rest of the day. :)-->

[templelady]

quote:

...but the Bible is the Word of God... in all my years of school-not believing it anyway

the admission is:

I never heard that the Bible is the word of GOD

Then he goes on to say "not believing it anyway"

So if he had not believed it "anyway" that means thathe MUST HAVE HEARD IT before that day.

WHen you say "I didn't believe it anyway" what you are saying is, that something you heard previous to the current conversation appeared to be untrue in your estimation.

So what is actuality VPW was saying was

"I had heard the Bible was the WOrd of God but I didn't believe it"

Sounds to me like VP was claiming to be the modern day Saul--He never believed and suddenly GOd spoke directly to him.

THat could explain TWI'sobession with the letters of PAul to the exclusion of Jesus Christ.

VPW wasn't just teaching--in his mind he was the Spiritual equivalent of the Apostle Paul, in fact better--in "piffle" he was constantly pointing out where Paul had erred in his "walk" the implication being that he, VPW, would not have made such mistakes.

[Sunesis]

Thanks WW - I had tried to use the copy and bold function - I had wanted to use the quote from the book - thanks for doing it for me! I'll figure it out sooner or later.

[A la prochaine]

PHEWWWWWW

OK, glad the 'did he' 'didn't he' play the guitar wars are over...

OK... about the "I had heard that the Bible was the Word of God but I didn't believe it" line...

in piffle...VP says...(this is the jist not word for word) that when he came out of seminary school he no longer believed the words "HOLY BIBLE" on the cover.

He said the reason for that was because they had studied so much 'around' the scriptures that he had more faith in what 'men' said about the Bible than what the 'Bible' had to say for itself.

Could this be what he was refering to?

[WhiteDove]

Well the picture forum is down for the move but if I find the pict's I may post them if I can figure out how to on the new one. I did notice that on the one that was from the Way Magazine, I think he did have another guitar player with him which most likely gave the song a better sound.

Quote WordWolf: Ok, that answers my OTHER question.

That is, he actually DID play the guitar, if not up to a professional standard,

but he did PLAY. (Probably knew 3 chords, could play backup in a pinch.)

His singing ability, I got from shazdancer, was something Simon Cowell would have

some unflattering terms for.

I can speculate why they didn't (HE didn't) try to release it as a record,

but I think I've used up my speculation quota for the rest of the day. Quote:

I'd say that was a fair rendering of the song that cowboy one two three strum.

[templelady]

quote:

in piffle...VP says...(this is the jist not word for word) that when he came out of seminary school he no longer believed the words "HOLY BIBLE" on the cover.

He said the reason for that was because they had studied so much 'around' the scriptures that he had more faith in what 'men' said about the Bible than what the 'Bible' had to say for itself.

Could this be what he was refering to?

I don't think so, would be interesting to find out which statement came first.

Even if he believed what "men" said about the Bible, he still would have heard that the BIble was the word of GOd. I seriously can't believe that from 1942 and before he would have failed to hear this point in some fashion or another.

If he were perceptive enough to have noticed at the time that they were talking "around" scripture, VPW, who preached to the trees, and told visting preachers that he wanted to be like them would have noticed.

He also makes a point that he had never heard that the bible is the WOrd of God in statement one.

In statement two he implies that he at one time knew and believed that the Bible was the word of God and through Seminary lost that faith.

THe two statements just don't mesh

Either

A) at one time he knew the Bible was the Word of God and lost that belief. In which case the statement would have been about regaining faith in the Bible being the Word of God NOT about never knowing about it being the word of GOD

or

B) He never believed period.

[def59]

I saw VP and JP play the guitar at a family table at ROA in 78 or 79. TWI took a pic and used it in their promos.

[penguin]

UMMMM

Bear with me then.. If vp didn't believe the Bible was theWord of God until 1942...what did he base his teaching of the tithe to his brand new congregation on (in 1941)? Maybe this really does show his motivation after all.

[diazbro]

I heard that VPW had played guitar though ,personally, I never heard him play. I do recall that his comment about "laying down the guitar " was used a great deal by WOWs and Corps as an example of sacrifice -as if VPW had some preternatural ability for guitar and made the ultimate sacrifice by denying his "immense talent" for music (and basketball) in favor of servitude to God. I later learned that his musical abilites were ,at best, average and , in general, quite mediocre. Of course during the "good ole days" (early to mid 70s) VPW could do no wrong and was openly worshipped as a valid substitute for the "absent christ" though that phrase had yet to come into vogue. However I do recall that Stacey Bowen once said that "you don't have Jesus or Paul but you do have Doctor Wierwille". That comment made me ill though the bulk of the people enthusiastically applauded. How whacked was that ?

Worse I once heard a starstruck WOW say that something to the effect of "Doctor is so right on that he can check out scenes and situations that ,for you and me (the average believer) , would mean that we be out of fellowship. But not for Doctor". Of course later this type of thinking was used by Way leadership to justify their licentious behavior.

[A la prochaine]

quote:

"After I met Rosalind Rinker in Indiana, I invited her to visit us in Payne, and

she came for a week that summer of 1942. Maybe it was August. I remember it was near

the end of summer, and she used to dog me on the Bible being the Word of God.

She talked to me about getting my own life in alignment and harmony with the Bible.

OK.....I have only ONE question...Why in the he!! did VP take so much from this WOMAN? Up until now...VP has no respect for woman. Suddenly, this lady is lacing into him...and she's the best thing since sliced bread. hmmmmmmmmmm???? -->

quote:

The last night of her stay, she and I went into the church and knelt at the

pulpit chairs. I remember I asked God for forgiveness, understanding and love,

The forgiveness word REALLY caught my eye. Here is a man that is sure of his beliefs...he's taking a stand ... he's telling the religious leaders where to go and setting them straight.

Now he wants forgiveness??? For what?

Someone feels guilty? What about?

[skyrider]

quote:

Now he wants forgiveness??? For what?

Good question, ala.

Good question. :)-->

[Ham]

quote:

Suddenly, this lady is lacing into him...and she's the best thing since sliced bread

Yep. Very, very interesting.. maybe it "turned him on".

[WordWolf]

quote:

Originally posted by penguin:

UMMMM

Bear with me then.. If vp didn't believe the Bible was theWord of God until 1942...what did he base his teaching of the tithe to his brand new congregation on (in 1941)? Maybe this really does show his motivation after all.

That's how I see it, too.

(Once it was pointed out.)

And, don't forget, it was FOUR teachings,

according to him.

=====

On Rinker, it will help for me to dig up another

source....

[WordWolf]

I found this in our threads. It's from SNT 214, 10/17/65,

"Light Began to Dawn". vpw, as usual, was speaking.

=======

quote:

Perhaps the greatest one to move in the category of

what I learned here in Acts four and five, to start the

greatness of this thing, was a woman by the name of

Rosalind Rinker. Some of you people were--will know her

today because she was her in Lima, Ohio less than a year ago,

or a year and a half ago. She travels and works with a woman

names Jeanie Price. Jeanie Price is quite an author-writes

books that are published by Zondervan, if I remember

correctly. Rosalind Rinker had been on the mission field in

Korea, if I remember correctly-someplace out East. Korea

doesn't sound right to me, I've forgotten now where she was.

Where? Was it China? I think you're right.

And a lady by the name of Aleta Yacoub had come through from

Africa and stopped on her way back to the United States in

China. This soman had been filled with the spirit in Africa,

and had been operation manifestations of the spirit and

things were booming. You know, light was dawning, and people

were getting saved and other things happening in Africa that

were just beginning to swell. So she stopped in China, and

had a series of evangelistic meetings there and all she

allowed to come-or all they allowed to come,were the

missionaries, their wives and their children. And they had

oodles of conversions among the missionaries, their wives and

their children. One of those women who got converted was

Rosalind Rinker who'd been on the mission field for sixteen

years-before...

Rosalind Rinker came back from the mission field and I was

doing a monthly piece of writing for a magazine...

and talking to the boss, Mr Higgley, and when we walked back

through the buulding, he introduced me to this woman,

Rosalind Rinker. We got acquainted just in a brief period of

time and somehow or other, it jelled within my heart to say

to her, "Well, why don't you come over to our house and

spend a week?" And she said "Well, I'll just do it." That

was a surprise to me because the average person who had a

depth of religion said to me, "Well, I'll pray about it."

That was the usual attitude that I'd run into. by this time.

You know, if they had any depth of spirituality, like the

boys that graduate from Moody, Wheaton and the rest of them,

they would always say to me, "We have gotta take time out

and pray about it."

But this woman had found something out there under Aleta

Yacoub. She had tapped something and she knew that when

somebody said to her 'do so-in-so', if the time was right, it

was God's will for her to walk in. So I said to her,

"Would you like to come for a week or so with us?" And she

said "Yes, I will." I said, "When will you come?" She said

"I'll be there Saturday" or Sunday, I forget which.

Lo and behold, here she came. You know what we did? When she

came, I wanted her to speak to our church group, but she had

no interest in that. She said, "I want to talk to you." And

we sat down in that same office where I'd had this

revelation from the Lord. She began dealing with me in the

Word. And "Boy," I thought to myself, "how can a woman have

this much knowledge of the Word?" And she told me she had

learned all of this within the last six-seven months!

And she took me-that had been through all these colleges and

seminaries and had almost my work for my doctor's degree

finished-she just takes me and winds me around her finger

with the knowledge of God's Word-I didn't know any of God's

Word compared to her. I'd quote her some theologian, she

said "That don't mean anything to me. What does the Word

say?" And she pinned me down, and she took me into the Word,

ans showed me that it was the Word that counted and not what

a theologian said or what a main said but 'what does the Word

say?' And she pinned me down, and she took me into the

Word, and showed me that it was the Word that counted and not

what a theologian said or what a main said but 'what does the

Word say?' And she kept backing me up against the wall-

whole week long. Just, night after night, day after day,

that's all she did.

So, one evening, after everybody else had gone to bed, she

and I went into the church and we knelt at the pulpit chairs

up in front, and we prayed together, and that was the

second great night of my life. When, during the course of

that weekend, she told me that God was showing her that He

had something very special for me to do, and that I should

teach the Word. I forget what this all is about, but it's on

the flyleaf of out class on Power For Abundant Living. It was

she who made that statement that's on that cover, you know,

that red-green-yellow thing that we give out for the classes,

the essence of it-of what she said is on that sheet. And that

greatness of God substantiating to her what He had already

told me, corroborated something in my heart. And that just

blessed my soul....

[WordWolf]

quote:

Originally posted by WordWolf:

=======

quote:

...He introduced me to this woman,

Rosalind Rinker. We got acquainted just in a brief period of

time and somehow or other, it jelled within my heart to say

to her, "Well, why don't you come over to our house and

spend a week?" And she said "Well, I'll just do it."

But this woman had found something out there under Aleta

Yacoub. She had tapped something and she knew that when

somebody said to her 'do so-in-so', if the time was right, it

was God's will for her to walk in. So I said to her,

"Would you like to come for a week or so with us?" And she

said "Yes, I will." I said, "When will you come?" She said

"I'll be there Saturday" or Sunday, I forget which.

Lo and behold, here she came. You know what we did? When she

came, I wanted her to speak to our church group, but she had

no interest in that. She said, "I want to talk to you." And

we sat down in that same office where I'd had this

revelation from the Lord. She began dealing with me in the

Word. And "Boy," I thought to myself, "how can a woman have

this much knowledge of the Word?" And she told me she had

learned all of this within the last six-seven months!

And she took me-that had been through all these colleges and

seminaries and had almost my work for my doctor's degree

finished-she just takes me and winds me around her finger

with the knowledge of God's Word-I didn't know any of God's

Word compared to her. I'd quote her some theologian, she

said "That don't mean anything to me. What does the Word

say?" And she pinned me down, and she took me into the Word,

ans showed me that it was the Word that counted and not what

a theologian said or what a main said but 'what does the Word

say?' And she pinned me down, and she took me into the

Word, and showed me that it was the Word that counted and not

what a theologian said or what a main said but 'what does the

Word say?' And she kept backing me up against the wall-

whole week long. Just, night after night, day after day,

that's all she did.

So, one evening, after everybody else had gone to bed, she

and I went into the church and we knelt at the pulpit chairs

up in front, and we prayed together, and that was the

second great night of my life. When, during the course of

that weekend, she told me that God was showing her that He

had something very special for me to do, and that I should

teach the Word. I forget what this all is about, but it's on

the flyleaf of out class on Power For Abundant Living. It was

she who made that statement that's on that cover, you know,

that red-green-yellow thing that we give out for the classes,

the essence of it-of what she said is on that sheet. And that

greatness of God substantiating to her what He had already

told me, corroborated something in my heart. And that just

blessed my soul....

Edited September 21, 2005 by WordWolf

[templelady]

quote:

Rosalind Rinker had been on the mission field in

Korea, if I remember correctly

quote:

And they had

oodles of conversions among the missionaries, their wives and

their children. One of those women who got converted was

Rosalind Rinker who'd been on the mission field for sixteen

years-before...

So let me get this straight-- Rosalind served on the mission field for SIXTEEN YEARS before she was converted??!?!?!?!?

quote:

We got acquainted just in a brief period of

time and somehow or other, it jelled within my heart to say

to her, "Well, why don't you come over to our house and

spend a week?" And she said "Well, I'll just do it." That

was a surprise to me because the average person who had a

depth of religion said to me, "Well, I'll pray about it."

That was the usual attitude that I'd run into. by this time.

You know, if they had any depth of spirituality, like the

boys that graduate from Moody, Wheaton and the rest of them,

they would always say to me, "We have gotta take time out

and pray about it."

So if you had any depth of sprituality you "prayed about it" but she didn't need to pray. So I take it from this, that it was VPW's contention that people who didn't pray about his requests had more spritual depth than those who did??!?!?!

quote:

"Boy," I thought to myself, "how can a woman have

this much knowledge of the Word?"

Ahh there is the VPW we know and "love"

quote:

and we prayed together, and that was the

second great night of my life. When, during the course of

that weekend, she told me that God was showing her that He

had something very special for me to do, and that I should

teach the Word.

Okay, wait a minute, I thought this was the night she showed VPW that the word was from GOD-becuase He hadn't known that before

NOw he is saying that she showed him that he should teach the WOrd -- not a single thing in this whole speech about not knowing the Bible was the word of GOD.

That's the problem with "creative license" in your life , you keep losing track of where you created something other than the truth.

[A la prochaine]

WW,

Why the double post? Is there something in the second post that I was suppose read???

Just curious.

Don't want to miss anything.

Thanks.

[WordWolf]

I MEANT to provide the longer post,

then a trimmer post with emphases.

I got sidetracked.

Let me go add the emphases where I saw them

(which may not be where they are NEEDED.)

[WordWolf]

quote:

I wanted her to speak to our church group, but she had

no interest in that. She said, "I want to talk to you."

========

"how can a woman have this much knowledge of the Word?"

======

And she took me-that had been through all these colleges and

seminaries and had almost my work for my doctor's degree

finished-she just takes me and winds me around her finger

with the knowledge of God's Word-I didn't know any of God's

Word compared to her. I'd quote her some theologian, she

said "That don't mean anything to me. What does the Word

say?" And she pinned me down, and she took me into the Word,

ans showed me that it was the Word that counted and not what

a theologian said or what a main said but 'what does the Word

say?' And she pinned me down, and she took me into the

Word, and showed me that it was the Word that counted and not

what a theologian said or what a main said but 'what does the

Word say?' And she kept backing me up against the wall-

So, one evening, after everybody else had gone to bed, she

and I went into the church and we knelt at the pulpit chairs

up in front, and we prayed together, and that was the

second great night of my life. When, during the course of

that weekend, she told me that God was showing her that He

had something very special for me to do, and that I should

teach the Word. I forget what this all is about, but it's on

the flyleaf of out class on Power For Abundant Living.

And that greatness of God substantiating to her what He had already told me

Here's the rundown on what I thought was particularly noteworthy...

-she wanted to deal ONLY with him, focusing all her attention on

Mr Humility. Of COURSE he went along.

-yes, he was surprised a woman knew the Bible

-he snuck in references to his attending seminarIES and collegeS

-There's a set of odd, CONSISTENT phrases here.

She "wound him around her finger".

She "pinned him down" -TWICE he says that.

she "backed him up against the wall"

Then they were alone, up after everyone went to sleep.

It's at THIS time where the previous question-

'why is he asking for forgiveness NOW?'-

becomes current.

Is his subconscious choosing of words telling us more than he

meant to? What happened after everyone went to sleep?

And did getting away with it help to make it easier to do again

later to other people?

Remember-he's a control freak.

Who did what, and to whom?

[WordWolf]

quote:

Originally posted by A la prochaine:

quote:

"After I met Rosalind Rinker in Indiana, I invited her to visit us in Payne, and

she came for a week that summer of 1942. Maybe it was August. I remember it was near

the end of summer, and she used to dog me on the Bible being the Word of God.

She talked to me about getting my own life in alignment and harmony with the Bible.

OK.....I have only ONE question...Why in the he!! did VP take so much from this WOMAN? Up until now...VP has no respect for woman. Suddenly, this lady is lacing into him...and she's the best thing since sliced bread. hmmmmmmmmmm???? -->

quote:

The last night of her stay, she and I went into the church and knelt at the

pulpit chairs. I remember I asked God for forgiveness, understanding and love,

The forgiveness word REALLY caught my eye. Here is a man that is sure of his beliefs...he's taking a stand ... he's telling the religious leaders where to go and setting them straight.

Now he wants forgiveness??? For what?

Someone feels guilty? What about?

[shazdancer]

Thanks, WW and ala. I'd always wondered what that ol' misogynist had really been doing with Rosalind Rinker. I'm glad I'm not the only one wondering.

Regards,

Shaz