Geo and Sudo -- if you can explain cancer (or any other disease), I'll pay attention to sites like QUACK WATCH
As far as I am concerned, they are offering an opinion, just like the sites that purport to offer the opposite. What gives the skeptical sites credence over the others -- eh??
GMAFB --- (you figure this acronym out). There are two sides to every story, and if ya can't listen to them both, you don't deserve to hear either.
Healthy skepticism is good, but outright denial is not.
Uh, gee, if one really wants to hang onto the notion of the "evil" AMA and seek out alternative "cures" for such things as baldness or maybe some "fat dissolving" herb that magically melts the pounds away while you sleep, be my guest.
But when it comes to diseases where one's very life is at stake, I think maybe a little more prudence is in order. And while I'm sure the vast majority of AMA-type Doctors and healthcare professionals are hopelessly possessed and are simply out to make a fortune off of everyone's suffering, there might just be a kernel of truth to some of what the science-based healthcare providers have to say.
It might just be worth considering for a moment anyway. Maybe?
Perhaps it's the term "Quackwatch" that David found insulting.
Honestly, one of the best, scientifically tested cancer remedies IS "herbal-based." Paclitaxel (more commonly known by the trade name Taxol ™) is from the bark of the Pacific Yew tree. (Semisynthetic production methods based on renewable Yew needles have been developed more recently.)
I'm certainly also aware of the good, synthetic chemicals developed to combat cancer; e.g., cisplatin and carboplatin are inorganic compounds, not found in nature, that have been very effective in cancer treatment. That doesn't mean that an herbal remedy is out of the question.
I haven't read the links here, so I don't know if someone is espousing green tea to cure all one's ills, but let's not rule out a natural product as a cancer cure unless it's been tested.
but let's not rule out a natural product as a cancer cure unless it's been tested.
Absolutely, but let's not put any faith in it either. I have no problem with any treatment that has a good track record of double-blind testing and publishing in peer-reveiwed journals, but anecdotal "I took it and now I feels great!" sort of testimonials are meaningless...
Uh, gee, if one really wants to hang onto the notion of the "evil" AMA and seek out alternative "cures" for such things as baldness or maybe some "fat dissolving" herb that magically melts the pounds away while you sleep, be my guest.
While some *alternative* outfits engage in this practice, I don't believe all do. Thus it is worth my while to take a closer look at what is presented, and make a decision based on that, rather than testimonials from past participants (probably paid to say what they do).
The thing about "alternative" medicine and the like, though, is that if an "alternative" therapy shows some promise and then passes the accepted regimen of testing and peer review, well, it's no longer "alternative" and becomes an accepted therapy.
Problem is, a staggering percentage of the "alternative" therapies never go through the testing process. They're simply touted to the hills for their beneficial properties and marketed like a sumbitch. Or they garner a following due to someone's supposed "positive" experience with it and all sorts of "experts" start into touting it's benefits and selling books* about it. Laetrile anyone?
Yeah, real science can be a drawn-out process and is fraught with all sorts of the same problems any human endeavor is, I.E. - people are the ones participating in it. But the "alternative" is simply guesswork and superstition - or outright fraud.
The thing about "alternative" medicine and the like, though, is that if an "alternative" therapy shows some promise and then passes the accepted regimen of testing and peer review, well, it's no longer "alternative" and becomes an accepted therapy.
I have two words for that, and they are:
I agree! :)-->
But it has to be looked at, and not discounted as a *quack* remedy without perusal. That is all I am saying.
If it hasn't been tested it IS just a quack remedy.
Yes, "Old Wives Tales" and "folk medicine gave us a vaccine for smallpox and aspirin and probably a few other useful treatments.
It also gave us bloodletting, induced vomitting, "hair of the dog", copper bracelets, homeopathic "drugs", and countless other crap. What do you want to bet your life on? Without the scientific method, you simply just don't know. Is that good enough?
Sure, consider everything, then test it to see if it consistantly and reliably works.
Part of the problem is that there are alternative remedies out there that not only have been considered, but tested and found out to not work, but people will still swear by them.
Often there is a faulty logic that underlies some alternative healing: misunderstandings about magnetic fields, tides or what have you that lead step-by-step to completely erroneous conclusions, but they sound good to someone who doesn't know any better.
Granted, some "quack" remedies have turned out to work...those that do will stand up to testing and can be repeated. The laws of physics and biochemistry don't require faith, or a positive attitude.
The other thing you have to be careful of, is some alternative medicines, and even over the counter vitamins can PREVENT your prescribed medications from working.
We now know that vitamin E (which is supposed to be good for the heart) can prevent your heart medications from working.
Additionally, some preliminarty tests indicate that fish oil may prevent a pacemaker from working properly.
I work in a cancer hospital. I have seen patients come in and declare they are going to a homeopath, a herbalist, or whatever. Often they have very early cancers that could be cured with surgery, chemotherapy, and/or radiation therapy. We see them again when they are in a very advanced state, and they die, and we get the blame. Or we just run across their obituaries. Let's remember that many of the chemo drugs did in fact originate with natural substances. Let's also remember that the earth isn't exactly capable of producing these natural substances in the purity and strength of say, the Garden of Eden.
The CEO of our hospital said in a meeting recently that our goal is to put ourselves out of business. To cure all cancers in all forms. So if you have a sure-fire cure for all kinds of cancer in all stages, and I can grow it in my back two acres, please PT me. We would love to have that info in our Biomedical Research Department!
In the meantime, go to the nearest cancer hospital that has affilitation with the CCC. Your life could depend on it.
Part of the problem is that there are alternative remedies out there that not only have been considered, but tested and found out to not work, but people will still swear by them.
and yes, david, that is exactly the article and recipe i was looking for.
my aunt was just diagnosed with lung cancer and is having a biopsy on thursday. she hasn't smoked in 17 years and eats only organic foods. yes, she is into alternative medicine.. but obviously, also has a traditional lung specialist that she is going to who has ordered the biopsy.
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dmiller
Jen- hey there!
-->
IS THIS the lady you are talking about?? Rene Caisse??
-->
David
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dmiller
I found this via Google, not GSCafe. Sounds like it might be what you are looking for. Or not. Hmmmm.
David
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WordWolf
By selecting "Find", then "advanced" then entering the words
"herbal cancer" in the search line, I got about 1/2 a dozen threads
here discussing it. I recommend doing the same, then reading the
threads that come up.
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George Aar
Might I also suggest reading this:
http://www.quackwatch.org/00AboutQuackwatch/altseek.html
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WhiteDove
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Sudo
Thanks Geo...
I hope your link is read.
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dmiller
Geo and Sudo -- if you can explain cancer (or any other disease), I'll pay attention to sites like QUACK WATCH
As far as I am concerned, they are offering an opinion, just like the sites that purport to offer the opposite. What gives the skeptical sites credence over the others -- eh??
GMAFB --- (you figure this acronym out). There are two sides to every story, and if ya can't listen to them both, you don't deserve to hear either.
Healthy skepticism is good, but outright denial is not.
David
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dmiller
And may I add --- this is (as usual) just an IMO.
David
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George Aar
Dave,
I guess I don't understand your apparent outrage.
Uh, gee, if one really wants to hang onto the notion of the "evil" AMA and seek out alternative "cures" for such things as baldness or maybe some "fat dissolving" herb that magically melts the pounds away while you sleep, be my guest.
But when it comes to diseases where one's very life is at stake, I think maybe a little more prudence is in order. And while I'm sure the vast majority of AMA-type Doctors and healthcare professionals are hopelessly possessed and are simply out to make a fortune off of everyone's suffering, there might just be a kernel of truth to some of what the science-based healthcare providers have to say.
It might just be worth considering for a moment anyway. Maybe?
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GeorgeStGeorge
Perhaps it's the term "Quackwatch" that David found insulting.
Honestly, one of the best, scientifically tested cancer remedies IS "herbal-based." Paclitaxel (more commonly known by the trade name Taxol ™) is from the bark of the Pacific Yew tree. (Semisynthetic production methods based on renewable Yew needles have been developed more recently.)
I'm certainly also aware of the good, synthetic chemicals developed to combat cancer; e.g., cisplatin and carboplatin are inorganic compounds, not found in nature, that have been very effective in cancer treatment. That doesn't mean that an herbal remedy is out of the question.
I haven't read the links here, so I don't know if someone is espousing green tea to cure all one's ills, but let's not rule out a natural product as a cancer cure unless it's been tested.
George
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George Aar
Absolutely, but let's not put any faith in it either. I have no problem with any treatment that has a good track record of double-blind testing and publishing in peer-reveiwed journals, but anecdotal "I took it and now I feels great!" sort of testimonials are meaningless...
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GeorgeStGeorge
I don't know ... how about the "Changed" film?
;)-->
George
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dmiller
No outrage at all. Just an honest look at both sides.
:)-->
David
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dmiller
While some *alternative* outfits engage in this practice, I don't believe all do. Thus it is worth my while to take a closer look at what is presented, and make a decision based on that, rather than testimonials from past participants (probably paid to say what they do).
There! I can be cynical too!
:D-->
David
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George Aar
The thing about "alternative" medicine and the like, though, is that if an "alternative" therapy shows some promise and then passes the accepted regimen of testing and peer review, well, it's no longer "alternative" and becomes an accepted therapy.
Problem is, a staggering percentage of the "alternative" therapies never go through the testing process. They're simply touted to the hills for their beneficial properties and marketed like a sumbitch. Or they garner a following due to someone's supposed "positive" experience with it and all sorts of "experts" start into touting it's benefits and selling books* about it. Laetrile anyone?
Yeah, real science can be a drawn-out process and is fraught with all sorts of the same problems any human endeavor is, I.E. - people are the ones participating in it. But the "alternative" is simply guesswork and superstition - or outright fraud.
*Here's a current classic of the genre:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detai...=glance&s=books
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dmiller
I have two words for that, and they are:
I agree!
:)-->
But it has to be looked at, and not discounted as a *quack* remedy without perusal. That is all I am saying.
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dmiller
I missed this tidbit from the earlier post.
I consider all things worth considering.
:)-->
Everything is worthy of perusal, evaluation, and either acceptance or rejection.
But you have to consider it first, and not just toss it out. E=mc2 was probably a *myth* when Einstein first postulized it too.
:)-->
David
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George Aar
But Dave,
If it hasn't been tested it IS just a quack remedy.
Yes, "Old Wives Tales" and "folk medicine gave us a vaccine for smallpox and aspirin and probably a few other useful treatments.
It also gave us bloodletting, induced vomitting, "hair of the dog", copper bracelets, homeopathic "drugs", and countless other crap. What do you want to bet your life on? Without the scientific method, you simply just don't know. Is that good enough?
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Oakspear
Sure, consider everything, then test it to see if it consistantly and reliably works.
Part of the problem is that there are alternative remedies out there that not only have been considered, but tested and found out to not work, but people will still swear by them.
Often there is a faulty logic that underlies some alternative healing: misunderstandings about magnetic fields, tides or what have you that lead step-by-step to completely erroneous conclusions, but they sound good to someone who doesn't know any better.
Granted, some "quack" remedies have turned out to work...those that do will stand up to testing and can be repeated. The laws of physics and biochemistry don't require faith, or a positive attitude.
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Abigail
The other thing you have to be careful of, is some alternative medicines, and even over the counter vitamins can PREVENT your prescribed medications from working.
We now know that vitamin E (which is supposed to be good for the heart) can prevent your heart medications from working.
Additionally, some preliminarty tests indicate that fish oil may prevent a pacemaker from working properly.
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Watered Garden
I work in a cancer hospital. I have seen patients come in and declare they are going to a homeopath, a herbalist, or whatever. Often they have very early cancers that could be cured with surgery, chemotherapy, and/or radiation therapy. We see them again when they are in a very advanced state, and they die, and we get the blame. Or we just run across their obituaries. Let's remember that many of the chemo drugs did in fact originate with natural substances. Let's also remember that the earth isn't exactly capable of producing these natural substances in the purity and strength of say, the Garden of Eden.
The CEO of our hospital said in a meeting recently that our goal is to put ourselves out of business. To cure all cancers in all forms. So if you have a sure-fire cure for all kinds of cancer in all stages, and I can grow it in my back two acres, please PT me. We would love to have that info in our Biomedical Research Department!
In the meantime, go to the nearest cancer hospital that has affilitation with the CCC. Your life could depend on it.
WG
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dmiller
George -- yup, that's good enough.
:)-->
I agree with Oak too when he said:
David
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jen-o
Hi Guys!
Thanks for all your input!
and yes, david, that is exactly the article and recipe i was looking for.
my aunt was just diagnosed with lung cancer and is having a biopsy on thursday. she hasn't smoked in 17 years and eats only organic foods. yes, she is into alternative medicine.. but obviously, also has a traditional lung specialist that she is going to who has ordered the biopsy.
please pray for her!
thanks,
jen-o
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