OK once and for all

[Raf]

I feel deep within my very being that life is being sucked out of our souls by this. Please forgive me all of you. This was the wrong thread for me to start as a newbie.

There is simply nothing to forgive. It's a great thread to get to the bottom of this. It was either this or search for all those interminable threads. You got the Reader's Digest version. Enjoy it.

Oh, and my soul is doing just fine. Thanks for asking. :)

[GarthP2000]

Awwwww DARN!!! You mean I can't become, ............................

........ Garth Vader, Dark Graphics Lord of the Smikeol Sith???

((heavy breathing)) "Use the fork, Luke! Use the fork!!"

B)

Graphics Update! The Ultimate Master of PFAL reaching The Dark Side of a Sith Lord!

((Dark music from Star Wars playing in the background)) :o

Edited December 13, 2005 by GarthP2000

[dmiller]

Please forgive me all of you.

This was the wrong thread for me to start as a newbie.

Ha. Like Raf said -- there's nothing to forgive.

And why not get your feet wet quickly. ;)

It would have come up sooner or later anyway (again).

David

(ps -- *THE READER'S DIGEST VERSION*) :lol:

What was the other thread --- 200 plus pages?

SSDT -- same stuff different thread

[TheEvan]

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[dmiller]

It is quite possible that given Dr's slips in morality that his final exhortations were designed to get us off of him and back to the Word the Word and only the Word - which he also said countless times.

Sure, it's quite possible, but consider and remember that he had been *slipping up* for over 40 years. Does his last lost teaching (as Mike puts it) as one of his final exhortations negate everything he did previously while *slipping up*??

No -- I would call it a jail-house conversion at best, and not a very good one at that.

He sees the end coming while he is in Scotland.

He gives a teaching called THE JOY OF SERVING.

If ya wanna read it, it is HERE, and it has the same old, same old in it.

He talks of mastering pfal, not the bible.

He credits pfal for the good the twi *family* does, not the bible.

Pfal is the source of power for witnessing, not the bible.

docvic does say --

And you earn people's respect by serving them the Word of God

But just before that statement, he said:

See the world is just opposite of the teaching of the Scriptures. They

exercise lordship over them; and then the great -eh - when he gets

higher up on the ladder, then he exercises authority over the top of

them too. That's why, so many times, we have heard that money is power.

Because money buys people, and then people become the slaves of those

who have the money. That's the world.

Sound familiar??? He didn't just describe the world,

He defined twi to a*T*.

Shucks -- while I am at it -- here's the *master pfal* statement Mike is so fond of:

Number one, you have to take PFAL and master it -- Intermediate,

you gotta master it; the collateral's that go with it, you gotta

master. Then you've got something to serve people. And then you

have to do it with the love of God in the renewed mind, -- agapao.

Then your service is just not a ministering service, it is a

doulos service, where you are a marked-out slave for serving.

No bible.

No intercessary prayer.

No financial giving out of the heart for those in need.

No Jesus Christ.

JUST PFAL.

I don't think he was trying to get folks off of him, and back to the word like you said.

He was still hung up on the decades of thinking he had immersed himself in and couldn't shake it even there at the end.

David

Edited December 14, 2005 by dmiller

[dmiller]

Well --- Ratzzzzzzzz. I see my link didn't work.

Must be God's will no one sees it, eh? ;)

[Raf]

Notice that he says to master the classes, not just the collaterals that come with them? That means the classes carry the same weight to him as the writings. But we KNOW that the classes are full of crap because Mike himself discounts them as authoritative. Meanwhile Wierwille himself says to master them! There's a word for that. It starts with an H and ends with a yporcrisy.

Guess what that spells?

myyyyyy precioussssssss.

[dmiller]

Ok.. Here goes.

At the risk of extending this thread to another 100 plus pages:

Here is docvic's "last lost teaching"

Read it, and decide for yourself if it is/ or is not

*B* (as in *B*) and *S* (as in S*).

He said NOTHING that inspired me.

Mike -- this is your *baby*. Say what you want, say what you will.

You'll be digging a deeper grave for yourself, since docvic is saying the same old.

IMHO -- Docvic said nothing new. I'd call this a graveside confession, but that might be too magnanimous.

docvic (to the end) promoted himself, and pfal. Period.

The Joy of Serving Transcript

------------------------------------------------------------------------

"The Joy of Serving"

Dr. V.P. Wierwille

May 12, 1985

[song ends "I Am Resolved"]". . . will come to thee."

Thank-ya very much. Please be seated. Well it's wonderful seeing

you all again on a Sunday night. Really I appreciate your coming in

from all over the area -- and I'm sure that Reverend Chris Geer and

everybody else does. Most of you know, at least the Corps knows,

that Chris and Barbara were my aids for about five years. So, through

the years we have been very closely knit together. And, real thankful

for their ministry and their dedication.

Phil it's [Phylis?] good to see you. (laughter) You got married on

me. 's nice. (laughter) Got anything to show for it? (heavy laughter)        

[pause]

Mrs. Wierwille and I will be returning to the s-- United States tomorrow.

And so I just wanna, again, thank Chris and Barbara and all the -- st-

Corps here and staff and everybody, for -- the exquisite way they took

care of us. And how blessed I been just ta be in their presence.

[Article from The Way Magazine begins near here.]

Since this is the meeting here at this time of country coordinators --

and of course, what I'm going to say should be applicable to every born

again believer, but especially to -- our coordinators. I wanted to just

share a little bit tonight on the joy of serving. The joy of serving.

Number one, you can't serve unless you've got something to serve. So if

you are going to serve a dinner, you have to have a dinner to serve,

right? Good.

If you master the foundational class on Power for Abundant Living, and

the intermediate class plus the collateral readings that accompany them,

you have really something wonderful to serve people -- with. That twig

and twig area leader, and the country coordinators, leadership of the

Corps, of the WOWs, have to all have this joy of serving. If you

haven't got the joy of serving you missed something in the Word of God

you oughta ah-put on. Heh, heh. So, number one, you gotta have

something to serve. Number two is love.

In Ephesians, chapter five -- verse one:

Be ye therefore followers [imitators] of God, as [beloved, or]

dear children;

Number two:

And walk in love, as Christ also [loved you, is the text], and

[gave up] himself for [you] an offering and a sacrifice to God

for a sweet smelling savour.

I'll bet most of ya thought I was going ta read ya first Corinthians

thirteen. (laughter) Wouldn't hurt ya to read it sometime again --

and believe what it says. Ha-ha-ha. Then I want you to look at

first John, the epistle of first John.

Chapter three -- verse sixteen:

Hereby perceive we the love of God [and this word "love" is always

agapao, or agape], because he laid down his life for us: and we

ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.

Verse seventeen:

But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need,

and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth

the love of God in him?

Go back to Peter. Flip back a book, first Peter. Chapter two - no,

chapter one. Verse twenty two.

Seeing ye have purified your souls . . .

That's renewed mind, 'cause your soul is not purified when you're born

again. It becomes purified as you renew your mind -- according to the

Word.

purified your souls in obeying the truth [there it is,] through

the Spirit unto unfeigned ["unfeigned" is genuine] love of the

brethren, see that you love one another with a pure heart

fervently:

So first, in the joy of serving, you've gotta have something that's

joyfully to be served, heh heh, secondly love, and then thirdly service.

That's the joy and the order of it.

I'll give you the four basic scriptural things relative to service

as I know it from the greatness of the Word. Not gonna read these,

just going give 'em to ya. I'm gonna read one of 'em with ya.

Luke twenty, twenty-two and following; Luke twenty-three, sixteen

and following; John thirteen, one and following. [ Luke 20:22ff,

Luke 23:16ff, John 13:1ff ]

But the one I want to read with you is from the Gospel of Mark. Mark,

chapter ten. Verse thirty-five:

And James and John [two of the apostles], Sons of Zebedee, [came]

unto him [unto Jesus], saying, Master, we would that thou

shouldest do for us whatsoever we shall desire.

(heh, heh, heh) Sounds sort of selfish, doesn't it? (heh, heh)

And [Jesus] said unto them, What would ye that I should do

for you? They said unto him, Grant us that we may sit, one

on thy right hand, and the other on thy left hand, in thy glory.

[And] Jesus said unto them, Ye know not what ye ask: can you drink

of the cup that I drink of ? baptized with the baptism that I am

baptized with?

It's referring to his death.

Thirty-nine:

And they said unto him, We can. And Jesus said, Ye shall indeed

drink of the cup that I drink of; and with the baptism that I am

baptized with shall ye be baptized: But to sit on my right hand

and on my left hand is not mine to give; but it shall be given to

them for whom it is prepared.

Verse forty-one:

And when the ten heard it, they began to be much displeased with

James and John. [And] Jesus called them to him [all twelve], and

saith unto them, Ye know that they which are accounted to rule

over the Gentiles exercise lordship over them; and their great

ones exercise authority upon them.

See the world is just opposite of the teaching of the Scriptures. They

exercise lordship over them; and then the great -eh - when he gets

higher up on the ladder, then he exercises authority over the top of

them too. That's why, so many times, we have heard that money is power.

Because money buys people, and then people become the slaves of those

who have the money. That's the world.

Verse forty-three:

But so shall it not be among you: but whosoever will be great

among you, [shall be minister -- be your minister -- means

minister to you].

See, every twig coordinator ought to know what's happening in his twig,

among his people. He ought to know his people very well so he can

minister to them. You can't help somebody if you don't know there's

a need there. So a twig coordinator really has to get close to his

people -- to know. And people are usually hesitant to really tell

ya what they need until -- you have earned their respect. And you

earn people's respect by serving them the Word of God and loving them

-- and then learning to keep your mouth shut. You just -- you just

never tell anything; you just help people.

Forgot which verse I was -- forty-three:

But so shall it not be among you: but whosoever will be great

among you, shall be your minister:

Verse forty-four:

And whosoever of you will be the chiefest [the greatest, the

toppest], shall be [doulos of all] servant of all.

Not just minister but a servant of all, a doulos, -- marked out for

just serving people.

For even [verse forty-five] the Son of man came not to be

ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a

ransom for many

And after all of my years, and our years of working with people,

I think the joy of service is exactly, in a synopsis form, what

I've given you tonight.

Number one, you have to take PFAL and master it -- Intermediate,

you gotta master it; the collateral's that go with it, you gotta

master. Then you've got something to serve people. And then you

have to do it with the love of God in the renewed mind, -- agapao.

Then your service is just not a ministering service, it is a

doulos service, where you are a marked-out slave for serving.

And I think this is what has made The Way Ministry so wonderful

all over the world, generally speaking, is that we have a lot of

the love of God in the renewed mind in manifestation among our

people and that we are serving our people. So every Twig

coordinator, Twig Area, Country, anybody that blesses people,

like anybody, even if you are not a Twig coordinator, you ought

to master this so you can help somebody in the shop or factory;

or wherever you are, so that you got answers for them. Outside

of this ministry, people, I've seen very few answers. If we

knew where there were more, we'd go get 'em! (laughter) That's

right. Heh, heh.

I think later on tonight you're gonna hear this old church hymn:

O Master, let me walk with Thee

In lowly paths of service free;

Teach me the wayward feet to stay,

And guide them in the homeward way.

Teach me Thy patience! still with Thee

In closer, dearer company,

In work that keeps faith sweet and strong,

In trust that triumphs over wrong;

In hope that sends a shining ray,

Far down the future's broad'ning way,

In peace that only Thou canst give,

With Thee, O Master, let me live.

[The Way Magazine Article ends here.]

That was my confirmation verse. Heh, heh -- hymn rather, not

verse, hymn. Revelation three-twenty was the verse.

Well, way back in March 17th this year we officially opened and

dedicated the Word Over The World Auditorium at International

Headquarters, that I'm sure a lot of your love and blessing's

involved in. And since the opening, we have been making available

the Sunday Night teaching fellowships -- Teaching Service, on

video tape, as well as audio. But because of the differences in

formats used in the United States and used here, most of you have

not yet had the opportunity to see a video version of the Sunday

Night Services. So Reverend Geer and I discussed this yesterday

and felt that you'd be blessed tonight to see the Word Over The

World Auditorium and a Sunday Night Service.

So, Reverend Geer, you do what you have to do.

[Tape ends here]

Thomas Benner

Edited December 14, 2005 by dmiller

[markomalley]

Mike,

Are you happy with what you believe? Does it fill your soul and leave you satisfied?

If so, good. Having said that, don't plan on trying to convince me of your beliefs. Because I honestly am not interested. But if it works for you, I'm happy for you.

So I hope you aren't offended when I place you on ignore. It's nothing personal, but I just don't want to waste the screen loading time with your posts. Not that I'm mad at you (I'm not), but filtering through your posts to read the ones I am interested in just takes too much time, particularly considering they all essentially say the same thing, something about which I really am not interested. But I wanted to make sure you know it is just a matter of practicality rather than a matter of vitriol.

Have a good life! What did they used to say...God Bless, you're the best, or something along those lines???

[dizzydog]

I want to ask one question.

What does God reveal in his Word?

When we recognize what God reveals in his Word then we have the means to recognize his Word wherever it’s written, spoken or otherwise declared. When Jesus Christ is revealed and glorified, God’s Word is revealed and glorified. Jesus Christ is the subject of God’s Word, the inerrant accuracy of God’s Word comes from the perfection of his walk and the completeness of his resurrection and ascension. If he'd failed everything God said in the Old Testament about the messiah would have been a lie and everything God says now would be a lie. If you want a standard for truth, there it is.

The declaration “He’s alive” is authoritative and not an approximation. And my authority to determine whether or not the statements I read are true and authoritative comes from Jesus Christ. First by recognizing whether those statements reveal and glorify him and second by him at work as the living head of his body.

It’s interesting to me how many discussions take place about God’s Word and how infrequently the REAL subject of God’s Word is brought up. The only yardstick I use to determine whether a man is declaring God’s Word (whether written or spoken) is to determine whether the sum total of what he says leads others to Christ or leads them to something else.

Edited December 14, 2005 by dizzydog

[What The Hey]

What the Hey:

If I'm ever in legal trouble, I want you to be my lawyer. Actually, I want 12 of you on my jury. Especially if I'm actually guilty. Because you don't know up from down, right from wrong, or the dark side from the side the rest of us are on.

Mike lies, we point out and document his lies, and you criticize US for it?

I find your lack of faith ... "disturbing". :blink: (Darth Vader choke hold.)

[Raf]

:)

Actually, what I would be saying is:

I find your gullibility amusing.

Edited December 14, 2005 by Raf

[Allan]

The prayer side of twi was left up to the individual, after all, for the most part it is a personal thing.

However there was the 'house of His healing presence', 24 hour prayer sessions etc..

And as someone said awhile back...twi's record of deaths and tragedies, accidents etc..(per head of population) compared to many other churches was very, very low.

I'll have to try to find the article because I can't remember how the calculations were done.

I do remember the RC's came out right out on top, followed closely by the JW's.

Surprisingly the Mormons were way down the bottom with twi.

( Remember..this was 'per head of population' comparison ) Maybe it does have something to do with tithes and offerings ??

[Raf]

Or maybe it has something to do with "the power of positive thinking," which is a valuable way to go about life.

Or it could have something to do with the fact that the TWI population was and always has been small enough to not constitute a representative sample. In other words, one incident of any of those things in TWI would have a far greater impact on a per-capita count than it would in most other religions, and the absence of one incident of any of those things would have a much greater impact in reverse.

TWI was not a microcosm of society. Therefore, the numbers shouldn't reflect a microcosm of society.

If we were to conclude that TWI and the Mormons experienced this low incidence (which I certainly do not believe in TWI's case, but let's take the info for granted), and we were to conclude that it is because of their doctrine on tithes and offerings, we would have to conclude that TWI and the Mormons worship the same true God. Is that what you're saying, Allan?

I'll give you another example:

The retention rate in TWI was and always has been far lower than most other religions/denominations/groups. Is it possible that's because of the tithes and offerings?

[Allan]

The 'tithes and offerings' were just an offering of an explanation Raf.

There could be a number of other reasons as well, eg..attention to detail, real assimilation of Gods' Word etc..( but then the JW's are 'right' into the Word ) anyway.

Interesting exercize.

I think you could be right with the 'power of positive thinking', not being awful but the RC's and JW's aren't exactly the most positive, vivacious, inspirational bunch are they.

Both groups do believe that sickness is from God etc..and it's all Gods' will.

[Raf]

I see. Thanks Allan. Sorry if I sounded confrontational.

I'd start with questioning the premise that TWI's record of deaths and tragedies was abnormally low. For one thing, the TWI population skewed young and healthy. So, yeah, you'd get fewer incidents of certain illnesses. But fewer accidents?

I'd like to see how this comparison was done.

[dizzydog]

...

Edited December 15, 2005 by dizzydog

[What The Hey]

Actually, what I would be saying is:

I find your gullibility amusing.

You certainly have to be and must be joking - right? What I am about to say will likely rub you the wrong way, especially when you are someone affiliated with the media. Only the gullible could believe the media has the gospel on everything, and those inside the media and the 'so called know' are the custodians of "Truth". The funny thing is, nobody has seen a single retraction printed on the front page of any paper the media has ever publshed right after their lie had made it into the headline the previous day.

The gullible are those who believe the media has made and put forth a valid argument, but all that's been accomplished is the printing and the presentation of reams and volumes of biases based SOLEY on the petty squabblings of men. Those inside the media have never solved a thing. The war continues because the media loves to print reams and distorted volumes of prejudices to constantly fuel the bonfire of people's confusion. Afterall, that's what puts the almighty $ into their pocketbook so why change? The media has hardly contributed anything or resolved a single thing for the benefit of man. I would not call that amusing. In fact I find and call it rather tragic.

Oh well. I'm sure you'll have a "snappy come-back" for me. It's to be expected after I cut off your right arm with my "Truth-Saber!" Oh OUCHHH! I'm sure it must sting and hurt a lot.

[Raf]

It was just a flesh wound. OH! He hit me right in my profession, which is relevant to this discussion because... yeah, I don't know either. Must be from the Dodge, Distract School of Discourse.

What the Hey,

I don't know what to say. You are so divorced from reality it's not worth responding. But hey, you're a fun read.

By the way, it's SOLELY, not SOLEY. "Soley" is actually ancient estrangelo for "idolatrous sycophant."

Edited December 15, 2005 by Raf

[GarthP2000]

See Raf, it's rantings like What the Hurl that just can't help but to cause me to be skeptical of the "Media is Controlled by the E-V-I-L, Left-Wing, One World Socialists" song-and-dance, regardless of who votes for whom. One of my reasons anyway.

Course, that's just the cynical ol' codger in me, I guess. ;)

Anywho, back on topic.

:)

[Raf]

I think the topic is whether mastery of PFAL is necessary.

I teach a grammar class. For students to pass the class, they need to score at least 75 on a test (over which I have no control). Semester after semester, I see students striving for that 75. They work hard to reach it, and most of them do. Then there are those students who strive for 100. They're usually the ones who get a 90 or better on the test.

To me, devoting time to mastering PFAL is like striving for the 75. If you hit it, great. You passed. But the better students are the ones who go beyond the merely acceptable passing grade.

PFAL is the flawed work of a flawed man. It has errors, both technical and doctrinal. To the extent that it leads people to an understanding of God in Christ, I rejoice. But I rejoice more when we aim higher. The law of believing is nothing. Faith in God in Christ is everything. Five sonship rights? That's it? What's more important, the number of crosses on the side, or the one in the middle? Which one did we spend more time on?

Master PFAL if all you want to get is the 75.

Master the Bible if you want to go further.

[doojable]

Good analogy!!!!!

[oldiesman]

... Faith in God in Christ is everything. Five sonship rights? That's it? ...

That's not it.

Yes, Session 8 is a great session.

But there's so much more.

Perhaps it is appropriate to summarize each Session, along with the collateral readings.

As you can see, there are lots of goodies there.

Session 1

• The Greatest Secret in the World -- What's Available
  
• Keys to Receive Anything From God
  
• The Law of Believing - Negative and Positive (Mar. 3: 1-5)
  
• Two Kinds of Unbelief
  

Session 2

• The God Breathed Word
  
• Figures of Speech
  
• Profitable for Doctrine, Reproof, Correction
  
• Purpose of the Word/How We Got the Word
  

Session 3

• The Integrity of the Word
  
• Logos: The Living Word/The Prevailing Word
  
• The Word and the Workman (II Tim 2:15), Receive Retain Release
  
• Keys to the Word's Interpretation, Chapters Verses Commas Devoid of Authority
  

Session 4

• No Private Interpretation/How Scripture Interprets Itself
  
• The Cry of Triumph
  
• Scripture Buildup: Four Crucified with Jesus
  
• In the Context: Are the Dead Alive Now? (Matt: 13:24, Rev. 1:12)
  

Session 5

• Previous Usage: Paul's Thorn in the Flesh
  
• Biblical Truths We Must Adhere To: To Whom Addressed
  
• The Church: Bride-Body
  
• The Great Mystery: Christ in You, The Hope of Glory!
  
• Biblical Truths We Must Adhere To: Administration Defined
  

Session 6

• Battle of the Senses
  
• Body Soul & Spirit; Soul Nephesh Chai
  
• Created: Three Creations and Fall of Satan
  
• After It's Kind: Seed Is In Itself, Mendel's Law
  
• Five Steps to the Fall of Adam and Eve
  

Session 7

• Original Sin: High Treason
  
• How Satan Is God of this World
  
• Free Will: Five Senses vs. Spiritual
  
• Faith, Types of Faith; Faith vs. Believing
  
• Hebrews 2:14; Incorruptible Seed; How To Get Born Again
  

Session 8

• Eternal Life-The Greatest Gift
  
• Confessing the Saviour from Sin; Standing/State
  
• Confession unto Salvation; Confession unto Fellowship
  
• Two Kinds of Knowledge; Putting on the Renewed Mind;
  
• How to Renew Your Mind; Your Sonship Rights
  

Session 9

• Five Gift Ministries in the Church
  
• Gift, Manifestation, Fruit
  
• Usage of Pneuma Hagion
  
• Nine Manifestations by Groups
  
• Gift=Ability
  
• What is the Gift? Dunamis, Energemata, Exousia, Dechomai, Lambano
  
• Who Received on Pentecost? Temple or Upper Room?
  
• Greatest Thing God Has Done
  

Session 10

• The Proof
  
• Difference between Phenomenon/Miracle
  
• Peter's First Sermon
  
• What Did Simon See?
  
• Conversion of Paul
  
• Peter and Cornelius: God is No Respecter of Persons
  

Session 11

• Acts 19: Apollos and Paul
  
• I Cor. 12: 1-7 (For Profit)
  
• I Cor. 12:7ff -- I Cor. 13
  
• I Cor. 14
  

Session 12

• Speaking in Tongues, What it is Not-What It Is
  
• How To Speak In Tongues
  
• Ye Shall Lambano
  

Collateral Readings

• Are You Limiting God?
  
• The Law of Believing
  
• Christians Should Be Prosperous
  
• How To Avoid Being A Failure
  
• The Palms of God
  
• Your Power of Attorney
  
• Job: From Victim to Victor
  
• Study Be Diligent
  
• Who is the Word?
  
• The Third Heaven and Earth
  
• Of Human Sacrifice
  
• The Lord's Brethren
  
• The Day Jesus Christ Died
  
• Did Jesus Keep The Passover?
  
• Simon of Cyrene and the Cross Christ Bore
  
• The Four Crucified with Jesus
  
• The Cry of Triumph
  
• Pauls Thorn in the Flesh
  
• Ekklesia: Bride or Body?
  
• The High Calling
  
• Viewpoints: God's - Man's
  
• God Is Our Sufficiency
  
• We Have This Treasure in Earthen Vessels
  
• The Church: The Great Mystery Revealed
  
• The Walk of Youth
  
• The Bondage of the Sabbath Day
  
• In the Beginning
  
• Body, Soul, Spirit
  
• The Unqualified Commitment
  
• How to Be a Christian
  
• Sons of God: Adoption and Birth
  
• The Genealogy of Jesus Christ
  
• The Conception of Jesus Christ
  
• Release From Your Prisons
  
• The Synchronized Life
  
• The Counsel of the Lord
  
• God Rescued Us
  
• You Are Righteous Now
  
• The Broken Body and Shed Blood
  
• Complete in Him
  
• As He Is So Are We
  
• Key to Power
  
• Fellowship Is The Secret
  
• The Believer's Responsibility
  
• The Christian's Joy and Crown
  
• Baptism
  
• When Judas Hanged Himself
  
• Receiving The Holy Spirit Today
  
• What is True Worship
  
• Filled to Overflowing
  
• Why Division?
  
• The First Century Church in the Twentieth
  
• The Energy Of Your Conviction
  
• The Joy of Our Hearts
  
• Speaking in Tongues
  
• How To Speak in Tongues
  
• A Rest to God's People
  
• God's Dwelling Place
  
• The Final Victory
  

[Raf]

Did I say there wasn't a lot of great stuff in there? Did I say that "mastering PFAL" would result in a failing grade? No. All I said was "aim higher."

Stopping at mastery of PFAL is limiting God. By all means, master it. But don't stop there.

[GarthP2000]

Stopping at mastery of PFAL is limiting God. By all means, master it.

Great job, Raf! Now you gave Smikeol more ammo to work with, ... not that he won't find more anyway, real or imagined. <_<