Yes, I would like to know about all of them. I've heard that rfr is lesbo, anal, and plenty more. But I've also heard a lot of really positive stuff to contradict it. I like to gather info., filter, then decide. I count on people who post here and friends who are currently work at hq.
I look for HONESTY in their outlook and their emotions (- extreme emtional HATE or extreme nicey, nicey EYES GLAZED OVER, the ministry is wonderful no matter what ) Either one of those I don't trust because it can blind and cripple the truth about the matter.
In all honesty, I have trouble believing SOME of what is said here. Not all - since I personally experienced some of the same exact things that seemed to spread through the ministry.
Let's say someone starts a thread..... it's a supposed question negative against twi.........it starts out fun......people make jokes.......then somewhere in the thread it becomes fact...... when infact the conclusion is DEAD WRONG. Then, I see it discussed later, in other comments in other threads, as if the question that was purposed to be fun, is now absolutely what's going on.
Since I'm still involved I still know some of what's going on and know that some of the things - just are not true.
I like the sugestion to read that book but honestly, I've decided not to since, for now, I'm not sure I'll be able to tell fact from emotional embelishment.
I have a feeling that I will be able to read it in the near future - this is so overwhelming at first.
I can appreciate you're wanting to know mostly (if not all) about the recent stuff... but what you'll find in the threads here (and you might want to dig back a pages for some older threads) is a pretty complete history of lies and abuse that has been with this 'ministry' for decades.
I really don't know what TWI is doing these days... do they help anyone or anything that's not TWI? Is a human life of value to them if it isn't taking a class or contributing money? Do they only care about people or things that bring value to TWI?
I also agree with nandon... ask your leaders... but I would also stress that the past does matter...
I've made no secret that I'm still in twi. I read the posts and am going through a decision process, rather or not I'm staying in.
I've heard a lot about lcm and lived through the 90's crap. It was very clear by 2002 that there was a lot of things people didn't know that had went on to destroy lives. It was directed all toward lcm.
So, I guess my question is what about the new top leaders. Does anyone know about the current one's????
I would like facts please - not assumptions or indirect hear say. If it could be more current, that would be great but doesn't have to be.
With lcm he was always out front, mog etc. Now, there's no mog, no one person is out in front. They've worked really hard at not having a "mog" or icon (idol) but that makes it hard to see other things.
djs --- great post with honest questions, and they deserve an honest answer. :)
I (for one) can not answer you about the current leaders, except to mention that I am familiar with Rosie, since she was around in my time period (1975 - 1986).
Tom is right -- the past is important to know about. One can glean MUCH from what happened in the history of twi, apply it to today, and come away with a fairly accurate *reading* of how things are run, what their intentions are, what they hope to accomplish, and on and on and on.
I got out in 86, or 87 --- when the *big bomb dropped*. The *big bomb* to me was all the sexual crap that I suddenly heard about, and had no prior knowledge of. At first, I was willing to dismiss it too, but I heard too many folks (from leaders on down), talking about it as factual, and that left me scratching my head, wondering where the heck I had been, that I never heard of this stuff.
Hey --- I was just *joe believer* out in *timbucktu*, over 1,000 miles from New Knoxville with NO KNOWLEDGE that any of this stuff was going on. Even though I left in the mid to latter 80's, I went back (for a short stint) in the mid 90's when lcm was propounding all the garbage full force.
Seriously -- I went back to *twig* for teaching, learning, and fellowship, and got a facefull of confrontation instead. Needless to say -- it did not please me. If I wasn't being confronted, it was someone else, and also needless to say -- there was NO teaching, learning, or fellowship.
Now -- back to Rosie. She was there when all of this happened. She was a *yes* person from the git-go. Whether or not she knew of all that was going on (back then), is something I can not say for sure, but given the odds, I would bet she knew full well. And given the way that twi has been run since docvic passed, I would also hazard a guess that nothing has changed, even now.
Now --- I admit I haven't kept up on the intricacies of twi, but the many new posters here, tell the story in detail, and pull no punches. Every last thing they have said, reverberates *old wineskins*. In other words --- THE MORE THINGS CHANGE, THE MORE THEY STAY THE SAME.
IMHO --- twi is operating the NEW manifestation known as *damage control* (these days), to protect their precious tax-exempt status. You have to decide for yourself if you are in, or out. But take a good hard look at the past, and see if you don't see it in the current leadership.
Everything I have read posted by those getting out (these days), tells me NOTHING has changed (in reality), while the *spiel* from hdqtrs has become *pc*, so as to spin a new twist, to what they have always done -- and will continue to do.
May I suggest we address rfr to the best of our ability,
then see what we have on the others?
That reminds me-you'll need to remind me who's in charge
there at the moment-at least on paper.
I've heard that rfr is lesbo, anal, and plenty more. But I've also heard a lot of really positive stuff to contradict it. I like to gather info., filter, then decide. I count on people who post here and friends who are currently work at hq.
From what I've seen, rfr is undeniably anal-retentive, that is, extreme
in the degree of rules and regulations she insists on using,
and requiring things conform to official policy-no exceptions.
That's been unanimous among EVERY story of EVERY person
who's mentioned her here.
As to whether or not she's a lesbian, some people don't care,
some people don't think so, and some people do.
One person mentioned someone accidentally walking in on
her just "after". One person mentioned that-despite rfr loving
luxury-she regularly stayed in a hotel room with a single bed,
sharing it with another adult female. In and of itself, that is
proof of nothing, but it IS peculiar, since it obviously wasn't to
save money. It is a matter of public record that she had a
lesbian couple staying on as borders in her home. That also
is proof of nothing-except this was during the "homo purge",
so there's a degree of hypocrisy there.
You may reach your own conclusions on that. Some people
can argue either way on that, and others can say
"so what?".
Finally,
if you've heard positives about rfr,
please share.
I've been looking for some for years now.
In all honesty, I have trouble believing SOME of what is said here. Not all - since I personally experienced some of the same exact things that seemed to spread through the ministry.
If you just accepted EVERYTHING someone said here,
you'd need professional help. :)
Let's say someone starts a thread..... it's a supposed question negative against twi.........it starts out fun......people make jokes.......then somewhere in the thread it becomes fact...... when infact the conclusion is DEAD WRONG. Then, I see it discussed later, in other comments in other threads, as if the question that was purposed to be fun, is now absolutely what's going on.
Since I'm still involved I still know some of what's going on and know that some of the things - just are not true.
I'd say that's an exagerration about a question becoming a "fact".
The part about the thread getting derailed for a bit with toilet humour-
well, that's not uncommon.
Then there's someone attacking people for posing the question,
or for trying to answer it, and THAT becomes a discussion as well...
I, for one, have made attempts to coherently
connect the dots, and it has NOT been difficult.
One example was the thread where I asked about
vpw's secret ceremony with the robes.
I wanted to see if it EVER had some sort of serious
component of some kind.
Those who had witnessed it came on and LOUDLY put
an end to the possibility. It was always just a stupid joke.
So, all joking aside, that was the end of that topic.
As for the rfr thread,
I grouped the relevant posts together on the last page
for easy reading. You may find that more useful than
Hi..DJS I've posted awhile back my personal encounter with Je*n Yv*s De Lis*e and 'hush money' and I have PLENTY on your supposed new Oirish lad who is meant to be the new Intl.Leadership trainer.
So, I guess my question is what about the new top leaders. Does anyone know about the current one's????
djs.....could you be more specific? Who do you consider to be the new "top" leaders?
If you want info on Rosalie......there is plenty here at GS.
If you are suggesting Donna....same deal, more subtle.
If you are asking about those 16th, 17th, 18th corps grads.......like Hxrney, De Lxlse, Rico, Rxpp, or Mc F.....then you have to realize that these guys operated (and still operate) in the shadows of lcm-mandates. From what I know in past experience, they strongly supported m&a policy, twi's no-debt doctrine, have silenced the sex/predator lcm scandals, trunk communication from Rxpp fixated on lcm fanaticism.......and thus, the principal offender remains martindale.
For me, the aforementioned guys are small change......from the abuse laundering of veepee & lcm days. Imo, few here actually recognize their little minion mimicing.
And, if you are talking about J. Reynxolds...........he was quickly demoted by rfr and given a bone in the purchasing dept. At one time, only Reynxolds and Lxnder were given trustee approval to check Waydale and later, GS, and report back. Those two guys were the core of the WayGB.
Platiig didn't seem to last very long either in rivenbark's circle. Although the region men have leadership qualities....they also know from whence their paycheck comes. Thus, they just don't buck the system and are just glorified-followers....really.
And then, the moneyhand could be classifed in a select group of the inner circle. For years, dotttie counseled women who were sexually abused by lcm. This information, too, is well documented in these GS threads. And Boob, he's too old to be an emerging "new top leader"......doncha think. Besides, he parrots the waybrain mentality to a T......not a true sign of a leader, for sure.
Just like martindale slipping into Toledo in secrecy......twi, in 2000-2006 era, has gone "underground." Very few announcements on sts. Very limited written communication or mass mailings. And, the live wap classes replaced the face of the martindale ouster.........same material, mostly.......just different label.
So, djs...............back to your question, NONE of the "new top leaders" have asserted anything other than lcm-mandated policy. Therefore, the martindale blunders and abuse continue to remain second only to those of vpw, which are well-documented. The little guys just haven't emerged from the shadows. And, in my dealings with some of them.......they only mouthed the barking orders from the chain of command.
In an analogy, the twi leadership is very similar to what we were taught in the Defeating the Adversary class concerning the devil's kingom......in that, the layering and overlapping of a crocodile. The thick, overlapping texture is relatively impenitrable and safeguards the crocodile's survival. Twi is much the same.
Great post sky. Yes these people were groomed to the positions that they hold now. They had to sell out to vp and lcm doctrine to get where they are now. When I say sell out............they had to believe and act on the doctrine being spewed by the top leadership. To make the point. The now prez of twi actually said she would procure women for lcm. Not much has changed they are still conducting damage control. They are trying their best to paint a "New" twi. Problem is it is still the same people and the same ideas. IMO they dropped for now some of the things lcm taught M&A and No Debt. They did this to survive as a ministry. It is not about saving souls but saving money for themselves.
If you really want to know about RFR's character, read Linda Z's posts. She worked under RFR for years at HQ. RFR's character is as a lying, backstabbing, biyatch.
I had a few dealings with her myself at HQ. I was there for 5years. She once reamed my arse for accidentally transferring her to the wrong place. I worked for a Cabinet Overseer and she called for him. I accidentally pushed a wrong number and lost the call. She quickly called me back and said "Don't EVER let that happen again!!!" It was a simple mistake which I don't think deserved that kind of response from her. But I don't base my whole opinon of her on that incident.
I personally think she is a wolf is sheep's clothing. She doesn't come in to the public to teach or speak very often in public. Why do you think that is? She just isn't the woman that the sheep think she is. If she were to speak, they would realize that. She has the charisma of a soggy spaghetti noodle.
She kissed vpw's arse to his face and chided him behind his back. What does that tell you? She had an agenda. She wanted to be high up. She has a great quality to coordinate and get people to do things. That's it.
The only time she talked to the staff after lcm got booted was to be sure to tell us that the local newspaper was lying about her. If it were true, why didn't she sue? Isn't that defamation of character? The paper said she knew as early at 1995 about lcm's sexcapades. She was deposed as saying she only knew as early as 1998. Why didn't she sue? Because she knows the truth. The papers didn't lie. Her purpose for telling the staff that the paper lied about her was because she hoped that her word had more pull with us than the papers did. Unfortunately, it probably did for some people.
"Don't underestimate her. There are depths to her only a few know about. She was 1st Family Corps, coordinated PFAL77 with Bob Weingardner, took over Way Pub., then Way Prod., then Geer put her in charge of the entire Auditorium a year or so after Black Wednesday. Much to our dismay, Don WW resigned and placed her as VP, and then she became Pres after Martindale left. She wormed her way using people, friendships, deciept, and micro-management. She knows everything about everyone who worked for her, we would have to fill out and turn in a weekly plan sheet to her, accounting for every hour of the next week, when and what we would study, when we would exercise, when we would eat, what TV we would watch, when we would have 'intimate' time with out spouse. Then the next week, we would have to turn in last week's plan, marked in red anyplace we didn't stick to our plan and the reason that the adversary had talked us out of doing what we had said we were going to do.
Perhaps the scariest thing about her is the fact that she can look you in the eye, smile, lie to you, and cut off your balls and stab you in the back all at the same time."
"Don't underestimate her. There are depths to her only a few know about. She was 1st Family Corps, coordinated PFAL77 with Bob Weingardner, took over Way Pub., then Way Prod., then Geer put her in charge of the entire Auditorium a year or so after Black Wednesday. Much to our dismay, Don WW resigned and placed her as VP, and then she became Pres after Martindale left. She wormed her way using people, friendships, deciept, and micro-management. She knows everything about everyone who worked for her, we would have to fill out and turn in a weekly plan sheet to her, accounting for every hour of the next week, when and what we would study, when we would exercise, when we would eat, what TV we would watch, when we would have 'intimate' time with out spouse. Then the next week, we would have to turn in last week's plan, marked in red anyplace we didn't stick to our plan and the reason that the adversary had talked us out of doing what we had said we were going to do.
Perhaps the scariest thing about her is the fact that she can look you in the eye, smile, lie to you, and cut off your balls and stab you in the back all at the same time."
Yeah......and all this micro-management crap with time analysis scheduling....and marked in red when we didn't stick to our plan....was all passed down to us via the region guys. The grooming from upper leadership to the trunk on down to the field level was meticulously flawless.
Following the dictates of that way of life.......was no life at all.....just micro-analysis existence.
Even if RFR knew of lcm's sexcapades as of 1998, why didn't she do the right thing and bring him before the church? He should have been exposed a long time before he actually was. She is just as guilty as the people she condemned at a corps meeting during the ACS 2000. A friend of mine who was at the meeting told me that RFR confronted the whole corps because many of them knew about lcm and didn't speak up. Why didn't ROSALIE speak up? She knew all about it. She wanted to appear she was taking the high road. I wonder how she will explain that lie at the bema? She makes me want to barf.
The paper said she knew as early at 1995 about lcm's sexcapades. She was deposed as saying she only knew as early as 1998.
Of course she knew long before ... I was outside the loop and knew in 1985 or before ... it was p old son that i think said she was there as lcm's ummm ... anyway ... something to do with knee pads ... and it is sad cuz i really liked p ... in some ways ... but is that how you get to move up in way world? I guess it was... man ... what a mess
Edited by rhino
Its been a long time since I have been on because I have been going back to fellowship and am very happy to be doing dso. I decided to respond to this post because I seem to alot about RFR and not many responses to the other top leadership. I am not going to dispute any about RFR because I know little about her and enough has been said without my little expertise. Yet again I think more infromation regarding the other top leadership needs to be said because that was the purpose of this post. I also think more needs to be said because RFR will not be president for much longer. Does anybody know about Mcfaden ( I think that is it) or Mitler. I know nothing about the others. My dad worked in Rev. Mitler's dept once. I remember my dad telling me that he was one of the brilliant workers for TWI and that he had been corps for a long time. Other than that I knwo nothing about him. I have herd some things about Rupp but nothing concrete. I just thought that maybe more info should be gathered on current leadership practices. Any thoughts. What will be talked about here once RFR is no longer pres and there is a whole new batch of leadership. I went to a Sunday service last month and it was packed! And there was alot of young corps there on staff. Anybody know any young corps? Alright I am starting to diverge. So does anybody know anything on the irish guy( Mcfaden?) or not?
ps. To the other innie who started this thread I think you should weigh all options and "take comfort in a multitude of counselors." Talk to different people. Ask yourself questions if your thinking of not going to fellowship anymore. What is the quality of the Word being taught in your fellowship. Only you know that. If is sucks then leave. If it doesnt stay. Because at the end of the day its the Word that you get that matters. Not that virtuous leaders are not important but leaders and people come and go but its the Word that liveth and abideth forever.
Its been a long time since I have been on because I have been going back to fellowship and am very happy to be doing dso. I decided to respond to this post because I seem to alot about RFR and not many responses to the other top leadership. I am not going to dispute any about RFR because I know little about her and enough has been said without my little expertise. Yet again I think more infromation regarding the other top leadership needs to be said because that was the purpose of this post. I also think more needs to be said because RFR will not be president for much longer. Does anybody know about Mcfaden ( I think that is it) or Mitler. I know nothing about the others. My dad worked in Rev. Mitler's dept once. I remember my dad telling me that he was one of the brilliant workers for TWI and that he had been corps for a long time. Other than that I knwo nothing about him. I have herd some things about Rupp but nothing concrete. I just thought that maybe more info should be gathered on current leadership practices. Any thoughts. What will be talked about here once RFR is no longer pres and there is a whole new batch of leadership. I went to a Sunday service last month and it was packed! And there was alot of young corps there on staff. Anybody know any young corps? Alright I am starting to diverge. So does anybody know anything on the irish guy( Mcfaden?) or not?
ps. To the other innie who started this thread I think you should weigh all options and "take comfort in a multitude of counselors." Talk to different people. Ask yourself questions if your thinking of not going to fellowship anymore. What is the quality of the Word being taught in your fellowship. Only you know that. If is sucks then leave. If it doesnt stay. Because at the end of the day its the Word that you get that matters. Not that virtuous leaders are not important but leaders and people come and go but its the Word that liveth and abideth forever.
Ricky,
Good to hear from you. Glad you are enjoying your college fellowship! I hope everything works out well for you.
Vince McFadden was in the 12th Family Corps. He and his wife Brenda had two sons. They seemed like decent enough people. They were there on corps night when POP was read. They left for a period of time...1987, I believe, but returned.
My question to anyone in the corps who stuck around after having heard POP and the mass exit...did you really believe that all those people who left got possessed, were diseased parts of the way tree that needed to be pruned, that they were bitter quitters? People who had invested as much or more of their lives than you...just walked away on a whim? Your blessed leadership lied to you to keep the money rolling in, and you chose to believe them.
What kind of person sticks around during the mark and avoid era? What kind of person not only accepts that he/she needs to report details of thier private lives to their next higher unit, but demands it of the poor souls "under them" in the way tree? Vince and all the others who hung around waiting for a position to open so finally all they endured would pay off...Hey, it's paying off for him, but what about the people he helped destroy in the process? What kind of person does that and why?
How many people have you apologized to, Vince? How about you, djs? How about any of you who stayed in that mess and condemned your brothers and sisters for walking away from that sinking ship? It was your "abundant sharing" that kept feeding the monster. It was your money that was used to defend Craig. It was your money that protected Craig and all the other monsters who thought they somehow deserved fresh meat. Hey Ramona...do you come here? I remember when you used to be a decent person. Look what twi helped you to become. Do you read these forums? How do you sleep at night? Have you honestly looked at yourself and what you have become?
Well, I don't normally like to stir the pot, but how freakin' blind do you have to be to consider staying with that cult just to save face? Is it because you really, honestly believe that no one else out there has "the word"?
If you didn't know God or Jesus Christ before you got in twi and are afraid that they will *poof* disappear from your heart if you leave, well all I can say is that God is bigger than twi, bigger that any denomination, bigger than any fear you have and bigger than any anger that I have.
I really do wish you the best, and I wish you freedom. May God help you.
If you didn't know God or Jesus Christ before you got in twi and are afraid that they will *poof* disappear from your heart if you leave, well all I can say is that God is bigger than twi, bigger that any denomination, bigger than any fear you have and bigger than any anger that I have.
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WordWolf
I bumped up and updated the rfr thread.
Were you asking about the others?
Did you need more about rfr than was on that thread?
"vp and me in wonderland" has some more on Donna,
if you want to read thru it a few pages.
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djs
Yes, I would like to know about all of them. I've heard that rfr is lesbo, anal, and plenty more. But I've also heard a lot of really positive stuff to contradict it. I like to gather info., filter, then decide. I count on people who post here and friends who are currently work at hq.
I look for HONESTY in their outlook and their emotions (- extreme emtional HATE or extreme nicey, nicey EYES GLAZED OVER, the ministry is wonderful no matter what ) Either one of those I don't trust because it can blind and cripple the truth about the matter.
In all honesty, I have trouble believing SOME of what is said here. Not all - since I personally experienced some of the same exact things that seemed to spread through the ministry.
Let's say someone starts a thread..... it's a supposed question negative against twi.........it starts out fun......people make jokes.......then somewhere in the thread it becomes fact...... when infact the conclusion is DEAD WRONG. Then, I see it discussed later, in other comments in other threads, as if the question that was purposed to be fun, is now absolutely what's going on.
Since I'm still involved I still know some of what's going on and know that some of the things - just are not true.
I like the sugestion to read that book but honestly, I've decided not to since, for now, I'm not sure I'll be able to tell fact from emotional embelishment.
I have a feeling that I will be able to read it in the near future - this is so overwhelming at first.
Do I get it from Barnes & Noble?????
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justloafing
DJS since it was never published(I don't think it was). This is the best I can do ya.
http://www.greasespotcafe.com/waydale/main/corpsnotes.html
It is a little more than falf way down the page. It is corps notes. Hope it helps.
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nandon
I think the fact that so many covered up for LCM speaks volumes.
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nandon
also, isn't it interesting that LCM was NEVER disciplined UNTIL a law suit was filed.
if it wasn't for the peeler's law suit, LCM would still be in charge. i would bet my life on it.
also,
why not ask your leadership what your asking here?
tell them you question the character of the leaders (bod, or whoever). Tell them all your concerns, tell them you've read many things on the internet.
see what they say. 5 years ago you'd have been Marked and avoided, see if they have really changed.
its your life brother (or sister), don't take chances.
good luck to you.
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waterbuffalo
Hi djs,
Welcome! Which book are you referring to? There are so many. I think I got Kahler's book from Amazon.
Take care,
wb
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rascal
Well does it matter djs, that in a court of law, the judge found that rosey was aware of lcm`s crimes and did nothing?
It is documented on public court documents.
Doesn`t seem like she has much of a moral compass to me....
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Tom Strange
djs, welcome.
I can appreciate you're wanting to know mostly (if not all) about the recent stuff... but what you'll find in the threads here (and you might want to dig back a pages for some older threads) is a pretty complete history of lies and abuse that has been with this 'ministry' for decades.
I really don't know what TWI is doing these days... do they help anyone or anything that's not TWI? Is a human life of value to them if it isn't taking a class or contributing money? Do they only care about people or things that bring value to TWI?
I also agree with nandon... ask your leaders... but I would also stress that the past does matter...
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dmiller
djs --- great post with honest questions, and they deserve an honest answer. :)
I (for one) can not answer you about the current leaders, except to mention that I am familiar with Rosie, since she was around in my time period (1975 - 1986).
Tom is right -- the past is important to know about. One can glean MUCH from what happened in the history of twi, apply it to today, and come away with a fairly accurate *reading* of how things are run, what their intentions are, what they hope to accomplish, and on and on and on.
I got out in 86, or 87 --- when the *big bomb dropped*. The *big bomb* to me was all the sexual crap that I suddenly heard about, and had no prior knowledge of. At first, I was willing to dismiss it too, but I heard too many folks (from leaders on down), talking about it as factual, and that left me scratching my head, wondering where the heck I had been, that I never heard of this stuff.
Hey --- I was just *joe believer* out in *timbucktu*, over 1,000 miles from New Knoxville with NO KNOWLEDGE that any of this stuff was going on. Even though I left in the mid to latter 80's, I went back (for a short stint) in the mid 90's when lcm was propounding all the garbage full force.
Seriously -- I went back to *twig* for teaching, learning, and fellowship, and got a facefull of confrontation instead. Needless to say -- it did not please me. If I wasn't being confronted, it was someone else, and also needless to say -- there was NO teaching, learning, or fellowship.
Now -- back to Rosie. She was there when all of this happened. She was a *yes* person from the git-go. Whether or not she knew of all that was going on (back then), is something I can not say for sure, but given the odds, I would bet she knew full well. And given the way that twi has been run since docvic passed, I would also hazard a guess that nothing has changed, even now.
Now --- I admit I haven't kept up on the intricacies of twi, but the many new posters here, tell the story in detail, and pull no punches. Every last thing they have said, reverberates *old wineskins*. In other words --- THE MORE THINGS CHANGE, THE MORE THEY STAY THE SAME.
IMHO --- twi is operating the NEW manifestation known as *damage control* (these days), to protect their precious tax-exempt status. You have to decide for yourself if you are in, or out. But take a good hard look at the past, and see if you don't see it in the current leadership.
Everything I have read posted by those getting out (these days), tells me NOTHING has changed (in reality), while the *spiel* from hdqtrs has become *pc*, so as to spin a new twist, to what they have always done -- and will continue to do.
What say ye?
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WordWolf
May I suggest we address rfr to the best of our ability,
then see what we have on the others?
That reminds me-you'll need to remind me who's in charge
there at the moment-at least on paper.
From what I've seen, rfr is undeniably anal-retentive, that is, extremein the degree of rules and regulations she insists on using,
and requiring things conform to official policy-no exceptions.
That's been unanimous among EVERY story of EVERY person
who's mentioned her here.
As to whether or not she's a lesbian, some people don't care,
some people don't think so, and some people do.
One person mentioned someone accidentally walking in on
her just "after". One person mentioned that-despite rfr loving
luxury-she regularly stayed in a hotel room with a single bed,
sharing it with another adult female. In and of itself, that is
proof of nothing, but it IS peculiar, since it obviously wasn't to
save money. It is a matter of public record that she had a
lesbian couple staying on as borders in her home. That also
is proof of nothing-except this was during the "homo purge",
so there's a degree of hypocrisy there.
You may reach your own conclusions on that. Some people
can argue either way on that, and others can say
"so what?".
Finally,
if you've heard positives about rfr,
please share.
I've been looking for some for years now.
If you just accepted EVERYTHING someone said here,
you'd need professional help. :)
I'd say that's an exagerration about a question becoming a "fact".
The part about the thread getting derailed for a bit with toilet humour-
well, that's not uncommon.
Then there's someone attacking people for posing the question,
or for trying to answer it, and THAT becomes a discussion as well...
I, for one, have made attempts to coherently
connect the dots, and it has NOT been difficult.
One example was the thread where I asked about
vpw's secret ceremony with the robes.
I wanted to see if it EVER had some sort of serious
component of some kind.
Those who had witnessed it came on and LOUDLY put
an end to the possibility. It was always just a stupid joke.
So, all joking aside, that was the end of that topic.
As for the rfr thread,
I grouped the relevant posts together on the last page
for easy reading. You may find that more useful than
just paging thru the jokes and derails.
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allan w.
Hi..DJS I've posted awhile back my personal encounter with Je*n Yv*s De Lis*e and 'hush money' and I have PLENTY on your supposed new Oirish lad who is meant to be the new Intl.Leadership trainer.
Let me know if you want some updates ? Bless ya !
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justloafing
Please do share Allen.
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skyrider
djs.....could you be more specific? Who do you consider to be the new "top" leaders?
If you want info on Rosalie......there is plenty here at GS.
If you are suggesting Donna....same deal, more subtle.
If you are asking about those 16th, 17th, 18th corps grads.......like Hxrney, De Lxlse, Rico, Rxpp, or Mc F.....then you have to realize that these guys operated (and still operate) in the shadows of lcm-mandates. From what I know in past experience, they strongly supported m&a policy, twi's no-debt doctrine, have silenced the sex/predator lcm scandals, trunk communication from Rxpp fixated on lcm fanaticism.......and thus, the principal offender remains martindale.
For me, the aforementioned guys are small change......from the abuse laundering of veepee & lcm days. Imo, few here actually recognize their little minion mimicing.
And, if you are talking about J. Reynxolds...........he was quickly demoted by rfr and given a bone in the purchasing dept. At one time, only Reynxolds and Lxnder were given trustee approval to check Waydale and later, GS, and report back. Those two guys were the core of the WayGB.
Platiig didn't seem to last very long either in rivenbark's circle. Although the region men have leadership qualities....they also know from whence their paycheck comes. Thus, they just don't buck the system and are just glorified-followers....really.
And then, the moneyhand could be classifed in a select group of the inner circle. For years, dotttie counseled women who were sexually abused by lcm. This information, too, is well documented in these GS threads. And Boob, he's too old to be an emerging "new top leader"......doncha think. Besides, he parrots the waybrain mentality to a T......not a true sign of a leader, for sure.
Just like martindale slipping into Toledo in secrecy......twi, in 2000-2006 era, has gone "underground." Very few announcements on sts. Very limited written communication or mass mailings. And, the live wap classes replaced the face of the martindale ouster.........same material, mostly.......just different label.
So, djs...............back to your question, NONE of the "new top leaders" have asserted anything other than lcm-mandated policy. Therefore, the martindale blunders and abuse continue to remain second only to those of vpw, which are well-documented. The little guys just haven't emerged from the shadows. And, in my dealings with some of them.......they only mouthed the barking orders from the chain of command.
In an analogy, the twi leadership is very similar to what we were taught in the Defeating the Adversary class concerning the devil's kingom......in that, the layering and overlapping of a crocodile. The thick, overlapping texture is relatively impenitrable and safeguards the crocodile's survival. Twi is much the same.
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justloafing
Great post sky. Yes these people were groomed to the positions that they hold now. They had to sell out to vp and lcm doctrine to get where they are now. When I say sell out............they had to believe and act on the doctrine being spewed by the top leadership. To make the point. The now prez of twi actually said she would procure women for lcm. Not much has changed they are still conducting damage control. They are trying their best to paint a "New" twi. Problem is it is still the same people and the same ideas. IMO they dropped for now some of the things lcm taught M&A and No Debt. They did this to survive as a ministry. It is not about saving souls but saving money for themselves.
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Nottawayfer
If you really want to know about RFR's character, read Linda Z's posts. She worked under RFR for years at HQ. RFR's character is as a lying, backstabbing, biyatch.
I had a few dealings with her myself at HQ. I was there for 5years. She once reamed my arse for accidentally transferring her to the wrong place. I worked for a Cabinet Overseer and she called for him. I accidentally pushed a wrong number and lost the call. She quickly called me back and said "Don't EVER let that happen again!!!" It was a simple mistake which I don't think deserved that kind of response from her. But I don't base my whole opinon of her on that incident.
I personally think she is a wolf is sheep's clothing. She doesn't come in to the public to teach or speak very often in public. Why do you think that is? She just isn't the woman that the sheep think she is. If she were to speak, they would realize that. She has the charisma of a soggy spaghetti noodle.
She kissed vpw's arse to his face and chided him behind his back. What does that tell you? She had an agenda. She wanted to be high up. She has a great quality to coordinate and get people to do things. That's it.
The only time she talked to the staff after lcm got booted was to be sure to tell us that the local newspaper was lying about her. If it were true, why didn't she sue? Isn't that defamation of character? The paper said she knew as early at 1995 about lcm's sexcapades. She was deposed as saying she only knew as early as 1998. Why didn't she sue? Because she knows the truth. The papers didn't lie. Her purpose for telling the staff that the paper lied about her was because she hoped that her word had more pull with us than the papers did. Unfortunately, it probably did for some people.
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coolchef1248 @adelphia.net
i gotta wonder???
who is bringing in the girls for rosie?
i'll bet someone is
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Nottawayfer
Here's something from another thread:
"Don't underestimate her. There are depths to her only a few know about. She was 1st Family Corps, coordinated PFAL77 with Bob Weingardner, took over Way Pub., then Way Prod., then Geer put her in charge of the entire Auditorium a year or so after Black Wednesday. Much to our dismay, Don WW resigned and placed her as VP, and then she became Pres after Martindale left. She wormed her way using people, friendships, deciept, and micro-management. She knows everything about everyone who worked for her, we would have to fill out and turn in a weekly plan sheet to her, accounting for every hour of the next week, when and what we would study, when we would exercise, when we would eat, what TV we would watch, when we would have 'intimate' time with out spouse. Then the next week, we would have to turn in last week's plan, marked in red anyplace we didn't stick to our plan and the reason that the adversary had talked us out of doing what we had said we were going to do.
Perhaps the scariest thing about her is the fact that she can look you in the eye, smile, lie to you, and cut off your balls and stab you in the back all at the same time."
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skyrider
Yeah......and all this micro-management crap with time analysis scheduling....and marked in red when we didn't stick to our plan....was all passed down to us via the region guys. The grooming from upper leadership to the trunk on down to the field level was meticulously flawless.
Following the dictates of that way of life.......was no life at all.....just micro-analysis existence.
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Nottawayfer
Even if RFR knew of lcm's sexcapades as of 1998, why didn't she do the right thing and bring him before the church? He should have been exposed a long time before he actually was. She is just as guilty as the people she condemned at a corps meeting during the ACS 2000. A friend of mine who was at the meeting told me that RFR confronted the whole corps because many of them knew about lcm and didn't speak up. Why didn't ROSALIE speak up? She knew all about it. She wanted to appear she was taking the high road. I wonder how she will explain that lie at the bema? She makes me want to barf.
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rhino
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rickyg
Its been a long time since I have been on because I have been going back to fellowship and am very happy to be doing dso. I decided to respond to this post because I seem to alot about RFR and not many responses to the other top leadership. I am not going to dispute any about RFR because I know little about her and enough has been said without my little expertise. Yet again I think more infromation regarding the other top leadership needs to be said because that was the purpose of this post. I also think more needs to be said because RFR will not be president for much longer. Does anybody know about Mcfaden ( I think that is it) or Mitler. I know nothing about the others. My dad worked in Rev. Mitler's dept once. I remember my dad telling me that he was one of the brilliant workers for TWI and that he had been corps for a long time. Other than that I knwo nothing about him. I have herd some things about Rupp but nothing concrete. I just thought that maybe more info should be gathered on current leadership practices. Any thoughts. What will be talked about here once RFR is no longer pres and there is a whole new batch of leadership. I went to a Sunday service last month and it was packed! And there was alot of young corps there on staff. Anybody know any young corps? Alright I am starting to diverge. So does anybody know anything on the irish guy( Mcfaden?) or not?
ps. To the other innie who started this thread I think you should weigh all options and "take comfort in a multitude of counselors." Talk to different people. Ask yourself questions if your thinking of not going to fellowship anymore. What is the quality of the Word being taught in your fellowship. Only you know that. If is sucks then leave. If it doesnt stay. Because at the end of the day its the Word that you get that matters. Not that virtuous leaders are not important but leaders and people come and go but its the Word that liveth and abideth forever.
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markomalley
Ricky,
Good to hear from you. Glad you are enjoying your college fellowship! I hope everything works out well for you.
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tonto
Vince McFadden was in the 12th Family Corps. He and his wife Brenda had two sons. They seemed like decent enough people. They were there on corps night when POP was read. They left for a period of time...1987, I believe, but returned.
My question to anyone in the corps who stuck around after having heard POP and the mass exit...did you really believe that all those people who left got possessed, were diseased parts of the way tree that needed to be pruned, that they were bitter quitters? People who had invested as much or more of their lives than you...just walked away on a whim? Your blessed leadership lied to you to keep the money rolling in, and you chose to believe them.
What kind of person sticks around during the mark and avoid era? What kind of person not only accepts that he/she needs to report details of thier private lives to their next higher unit, but demands it of the poor souls "under them" in the way tree? Vince and all the others who hung around waiting for a position to open so finally all they endured would pay off...Hey, it's paying off for him, but what about the people he helped destroy in the process? What kind of person does that and why?
How many people have you apologized to, Vince? How about you, djs? How about any of you who stayed in that mess and condemned your brothers and sisters for walking away from that sinking ship? It was your "abundant sharing" that kept feeding the monster. It was your money that was used to defend Craig. It was your money that protected Craig and all the other monsters who thought they somehow deserved fresh meat. Hey Ramona...do you come here? I remember when you used to be a decent person. Look what twi helped you to become. Do you read these forums? How do you sleep at night? Have you honestly looked at yourself and what you have become?
Well, I don't normally like to stir the pot, but how freakin' blind do you have to be to consider staying with that cult just to save face? Is it because you really, honestly believe that no one else out there has "the word"?
If you didn't know God or Jesus Christ before you got in twi and are afraid that they will *poof* disappear from your heart if you leave, well all I can say is that God is bigger than twi, bigger that any denomination, bigger than any fear you have and bigger than any anger that I have.
I really do wish you the best, and I wish you freedom. May God help you.
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Nottawayfer
THAT IS SOOOOOOO TRUE!!!
Edited by Wayfer NotLink to comment
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