I think the simple truth is that the simplest explanation is probably the correct one - i.e. Oswald did it. He acted alone. There is no conspiracy.
Of course that flys in the face of a gazillion cornspiracy books, tapes, interviews, ad infinitum. But look at each of these supposed "real" stories and see if they aren't a WHOLE bunch more complicated than the simple Warren Commission Report conclusions. And then there's the fact that all of the dubious - or outright phony "evidence" is ALL on the conspiracy side of the question.
The conspiracy industry has become the bread and butter of so many whackjobs and publishers, et al and they now have a very vested interest in keeping it alive. Hence, don't expect any of them to ever try to REALLY get to the bottom of things. They just won't.
Obviously conspiracy theories abound, but as one who was around at that time, and in fact stood on the streets of Washington watching JFK's funeral procession, I don't sweat it. I think most of the theories try to deal in negative proof, that is, they say the succesion of shots fired could not have been fired by one person, and the like. I know some implicate the CIA or the mob. But I have never seen any real evidence of someone else being involved. If there are any conspiracy buffs around who know of such evidence, by all means bring it on.
My favorite conspiracy theory is that the shuttle challenger was actually destroyed by the self destruct device in the tip of the external fuel tank, which was triggered by the leaking gasses. The reason this has always been interesting to me is that I remember watching numerous slow motion repeats on CNN when it happened in 1986, and remember distinctly the initial explosion radiating outward from the very tip of the external tank. This was not apparent on regular motion replays. The conspiracy being the cover up of said happening. But if anyone with knowledge ever said that theory was out in left field, they should not expect an argument from me.
And yes, of course, I remember exactly what I was doing when I heard the JFK news. I was in 8th grade science class tracing reflection angles from a mirror on paper.
Some believe it was the CIA who were protecting themselves from Kennedy.
Some believe it was the mafia.
Some even believe it was the Israeli Mossad in cooperation with the Jewish Mob, who had it in for Kennedy because he was against Israel becoming a nuclear state.
Here's a related quote:
The murder of American President John F. Kennedy brought to an abrupt end the massive pressure being applied by the U.S. administration on the government of Israel to discontinue the nuclear program.
[in Israel and the Bomb, Avner]Cohen demonstrates at length the pressures applied by Kennedy on Ben-Gurion ... in which Kennedy makes it quite clear to the Israeli prime minister that he will under no circumstances agree to Israel becoming a nuclear state.
The book implied that, had Kennedy remained alive, it is doubtful whether Israel would today have a nuclear option.
Reuven Pedatzer in the Israeli newspaper, Ha'aretz, February 5, 1999, reviewing Avner Cohen's new book, "Israel and the Bomb".
Whoever did it, one thing I believe -- Lee didn't act alone, if at all...
I think most of the theories try to deal in negative proof, that is, they say the succesion of shots fired could not have been fired by one person, and the like. I know some implicate the CIA or the mob. But I have never seen any real evidence of someone else being involved.
Exactly what I meant. The books come up with myriads of reasons why this or that agency, person, or country would have wanted JFK gone, but without any substantial evidence of any of these entities performing the act.
As much as I dont see things as George sees, I agree withhim here. (that will thrill him to no end I am sure.)
Now...bring on the UFO cover up conspiracy theories. I was watching something on that last night on the discovery channel, and I have seen a ton of it on the history channel.
I do not believe for a moment that Oswald acted alone. There's a lot of suspects: the mob, Castro, the FBI, the CIA, Nixon, LBJ.
I have no evidence of this, but I believe J Edgar Hoover gave the order. Why was he assassinated? That would answer a lot of questions. I never saw the JFK movie, but among the bits and pieces of conspiracy info I tend to believe is.....
Oswald and Jack Ruby were seen together 2 weeks before the assassination at Ruby's business place
the parade route was changed suddenly at the last minute
witnesses on the ground heard at least 4 shots
Karyn Kupcinet, daughter of Chicago media person Irv Kupcinet, overheard some of Irv's friends discussing the assassination before it happened. She heard enough detail that on the day of the assassination she tried to call Dallas police from a pay phone in LA, where she worked as an actress. But she screwed up the procedure and only the operator heard her say repeatedly, "They're going to kill the president!", and 20 minutes later when they DID kill the president, the operator taped her call and gave it to authorities. Six days later Karyn Kupcinet was found dead. She'd been murdered.
Dorothy Kilgallen, syndicated columnist and 'What's My Line' panelist, was found dead under strange circumstances: She openly refuted the Warren Report in her newspaper column. She got to interview Jack Ruby. She had a prescription for seconal (us old hippies called them "reds") yet her autopsy found 3 different barbituates in her system. She had finished taping the What's My Line show on a Sunday night. Had a good night; she personally guessed 2 of the 5 contestants on that show. She came home, seemed peppy, retired to her bedroom, and was found the next day sitting up in bed with her clothes still on. Since she used the seconal to help her sleep, she knew damn well what amount of booze she could mix with it, but if somebody substituted different pills that looked the same in her pill container which was probably in her purse during the taping of the show, then she could have died quickly even without booze. Seems weird to me. Also, John Charles Daly, the show's host, was married to Earl Warren's daughter.
there were 103 people including Kupcinet and Kilgallen who died mysterious deaths within ten yrs after the assassination who all had some connection to the case. Very convenient.
I'm guessing it was about Vietnam. LBJ sent troops that JFK brought home back to Vietnam 2 weeks after the assassination.
One of the science channels (Discovery, TLC, History maybe) did an extensive testing of the "Magic Bullet" theory a while back.
They set up a tower at the exact height of the TSBD window, set up tracks with a Lincoln limo and an exact reproduction of the seating arrangement. They then made ballistic gel molds of Kennedy and Connelly and dressed the models in suits. They ran the Lincoln past the tower at the same speed as the original was going, and had a marksman take his shot - aiming at the base of Kennedy's neck (where his first wound was made).
And what was the result? The bullet went through the Kennedy dummy, into the Connelly dummy, exited the Connelly dummy and lodged in the "arm" of that model. The wound hole in the Connelly suit was almost an exact duplicate of Connelly's real one.
A "magic" bullet? I think not. And such is just about all the conspiracy theorists "evidence". It's all very compelling, until you really examine it.
BTW, Gerald Posner did an excellent analysis of the whole sordid mess in his book "Case Closed". He was rational, logical, and even-handed - all things the conspiracy authors are NOT - yet came to the conclusion that - the Warren Commission was right, no conspiracy.
But, as with any faith-based belief system, logic seldom wins the day...
If you are not familiar with the circumstances and players surrounding the death of JFK, I would have to recommend William Manchester's "Death of a President." It is extremely readable, even though it contains a lot of detail, and I find it credible because Manchester was able to talk to witnesses within the four years following the assasination (the book was published in 1967).
I believe people will have conspiracy theories about any sudden or horrific loss, in part because the loss is so hard to bear, or when there is no clearcut explanation. Sometimes, tragidly, the theories will spring up from people who are simply looking for fame or notoriety.
For the record, I do believe that Oswald acted alone.
Geo: Interesting that you dismiss all conspiracy theories about JFK, yet you accept all such about VPW. Nothing logical about that. Besides, the reason I tend to believe in a conspiracy about JFK is the same as some of the stuff about VPW: there's just too many "loose ends" to NOT believe there was a conspiracy.
Mstar: No, it was Prof Plum in the study with the revolver.
I saw VPW rant, rave, tear some poor S.O.B. and new one, make really questionable sexual remarks, beat his dog with a stick, and play the hero at every event he attended. A also know several women who were the recipients of his advances.
Once the hero-worship and warped, mystical thinking faded, it wasn't difficult to connect the dots.
With the JFK assassination, there's no such evidence available. Lots of wild speculation that doesn't stand up to any scrutiny.
Being a skeptic doesn't mean that I don't believe ANYTHING, just that I would like to have a modicum of proof first. When evidence is scarce, you have to make a judgement call as to what seems the most likely. Geeze, is that so hard to comprehend?
OH, and those "loose ends". Take a closer look and they aren't as loose as the cornspiracy authors would have you believe.
When I was in high school at Paschal in Ft. Worth, I ditched school to go to Dallas to see the president.
After that, I never ditched school again.
In 1969, I transferred from Texas Tech in Lubbock, Texas to University of Texas at Arlington to be closer to home and my parents (primary source of funding) and a job at JC Penney's delivery dept. (secondary source of funding).
At Texas Tech, I took two years of Latin. I wanted to continue, but UTA didn't offer Latin, so, wanting to continue with a foreign language, I took Russian, instead.
My teacher was a rather tall, athletic built gentleman...
He took a liking to me, telling me I had a "musical ear" and could easily emulate pronunciations and sound like a native speaker. He was a Russian native.
After college, I kept in touch with George, my old Russian teacher, who was by this time, teaching French at Bishop College in Dallas and I went to a photography school in Dallas. He helped me find a room to rent in Dallas from this gentleman who he knew of, but wasn't very friendly with...
on beautiful Turtle Creek Blvd. across from the creek down from Lee Park. The area provided me with a lot of wonderful subject matter for my photography classes.
Sadly, in 1978, my friend George took his own life (or so the story goes) in Florida upon receiving his subpoena to testify before the 1978 Kennedy assassination hearings that were ramrodded by, I think, Henry B. Gonzalez.
Suffice to say, there might be a great deal more than is in the Warren Commission findings, but it's best to forget, and put it all behind us.
I tend to think conspiracy, but I like that link on George Aar's post, I think I'll study it. I read Case Closed by Gerald Posner and was not convinced.
I think now Posner was the umbrella guy.
And the rumors I was in Dealey Plaza that day on a field trip from my sixth grade class are grossly exaggerated. Those pictures of me dressed up in my Halloween cop outfit with a badge on the grassy knoll are fakes. Yes, fakes.
Of course, I did have trouble later pasting Oswald's head onto some photos...
Yes, I remember Caro's on Bluebonnet Circle. I don't remember one on Camp Bowie, but I never got out that way, much.
Caro's was a wonderful Mexican restaurant owned by an Englishman. I don't remember his name (though I should) but he had a handlebar mustache, frequently quoted Kipling and drank Old Overholt rye whiskey mixed with apple juice.
His birthday was in November because he threw a huge party every November and all you needed to get in was proof you were born in November. He had all sorts of wild game, ice cold Michelob, Mexican food....it was wonderful!
He offered me a cigar once while proclaiming "a woman is just a woman, but a good cigar is a smoke"...a Kipling quote.
This was all a very, very long time ago (Maybe '69 or '70), but some things you NEVER forget.
The two gents pictured are George DeMohrenschildt and Edwin A. Walker.
well... we might have seen each other there then, even though (near as I can figure) I'm 8 or 9 years behind you... our family has eaten there since the late 50's... we grew up with their kids... and I still see them all (the ones who are around) and play golf with the oldest son... their name is Whitten, Caro is a name in the mom's family ... from down in the valley... small world huh?
(of course my mom went to high school in Bentonville and my Grandpa is buried in Springdale)
That's interesting. The reason I became acquainted with Mr. Whitten is because back then I became fascinated with British military weapons and I had a little collection of .303 Enfields, Webley revolvers, bayonets, a Burma carbine and a couple of non functional wall hanger Sten guns...and, of course, I was a Kipling fan.
A friend who seemed to know him took me over to the restaurant and introduced me. Mr. Whitten was somewhat interested in my stuff, as I recall, but not nearly as interested in that as I became in the fare offered in his establishment. If I remember correctly, they made EVERYTHING, right down to the chips and flour tortillas right there on the premises from scratch...they got nothing from outside vendors. That was just a few months before I moved to Dallas to seek my fame and fortune. I quit eating there because I was gaining too much weight, but the food has remained a legend to me ever since. I've never had better.
I grew up about a mile or so from what was then Seminary South Shopping Center, went to Rosemont Jr Hi, and graduated from Paschal in 1966. I just got notice of the 40th anniversary reunion a couple of days ago, but probably won't go since it's such a long way to travel just to hang out with a bunch of old people.
In Dallas, I went to work for Zintgraff/Gittings photolabs where I ended up supervisor of the black and white printing, processing, restoration and special services area. I got to make new prints of all the old B&W evidence negatives from the Dallas Police Dept and the autopsy and forensic photos from Parkland Hospital from the Kennedy assassination for the 1978 hearings, which cleverly brings this derail back to the original thread. There was nothing to be gleaned from any of that material (by me, anyway), except I can assure you, Kennedy was really, really DEAD.
On a sidenote here, in '72, in Highland Park (in Dallas), I attended a Christian fellowship in a room above a garage a couple of times, but never went back. It was called "The Upper Room" fellowship run by a guy named Belt. It wasn't until years later I learned that was a TWI twig. The Zintgraff/Gittings lab moved me to Houston to run B&W lab there in '79. In '80, they sold out to another company who fired all of us managers and strawbosses and I went to work for Ron S. and his Photographic Display Corp. in Houston. It was there that I ran across a photographer who worked for Zapata Offshore drilling. Zapata was a big client of ours and paid most of our bills.
The gent in the top picture in the earlier post was not only a foreign language teacher, he was also a geologist and worked for various oil companies, including Zapata. The photographer from Zapata knew George pretty well, also and we discussed George's untimely demise a few times...and, of course, Kennedy's assassination.
A certain lady who posts here might read this and remember that she worked there, too. She was a WOW in Houston, at the time, and she's the one who signed me up for PFAL and introduced me to the rightly divided word taught as it hadn't been since the first century. Maybe she'll share how she and some of the other WOWs came to be employed there since that story is a hoot and a half in and of itself. It's even indirectly connected to all of this and she might be appalled at just how close she was to certain historical events and powerful people.
Personally, I always thought LBJ had somekind of role to play in the whole thing. After all, he became president, he escalated the vietnam situation and a lot of people in the vast military industrial complex from the great state o' Tejas made lots and lots of money.
I have no proof, mind you, but one conspiracy is as good as another, right?
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Belle
I think I read somewhere that it was an alien, but I can't be sure of the source.
Seriously, I have no clue and haven't really paid attention. I just didn't want your thread to get lost in all my verbose-ness this morning. :)
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George Aar
Oh GAWD! The mother of all conspiracy theories!
I think the simple truth is that the simplest explanation is probably the correct one - i.e. Oswald did it. He acted alone. There is no conspiracy.
Of course that flys in the face of a gazillion cornspiracy books, tapes, interviews, ad infinitum. But look at each of these supposed "real" stories and see if they aren't a WHOLE bunch more complicated than the simple Warren Commission Report conclusions. And then there's the fact that all of the dubious - or outright phony "evidence" is ALL on the conspiracy side of the question.
The conspiracy industry has become the bread and butter of so many whackjobs and publishers, et al and they now have a very vested interest in keeping it alive. Hence, don't expect any of them to ever try to REALLY get to the bottom of things. They just won't.
For some additional reading you might try this:
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
geo. - Former wild-eyed conspiracy fanatic and cult member
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moony3424
Wasn't it JR? He was in Dallas at the time.
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Lifted Up
Obviously conspiracy theories abound, but as one who was around at that time, and in fact stood on the streets of Washington watching JFK's funeral procession, I don't sweat it. I think most of the theories try to deal in negative proof, that is, they say the succesion of shots fired could not have been fired by one person, and the like. I know some implicate the CIA or the mob. But I have never seen any real evidence of someone else being involved. If there are any conspiracy buffs around who know of such evidence, by all means bring it on.
My favorite conspiracy theory is that the shuttle challenger was actually destroyed by the self destruct device in the tip of the external fuel tank, which was triggered by the leaking gasses. The reason this has always been interesting to me is that I remember watching numerous slow motion repeats on CNN when it happened in 1986, and remember distinctly the initial explosion radiating outward from the very tip of the external tank. This was not apparent on regular motion replays. The conspiracy being the cover up of said happening. But if anyone with knowledge ever said that theory was out in left field, they should not expect an argument from me.
And yes, of course, I remember exactly what I was doing when I heard the JFK news. I was in 8th grade science class tracing reflection angles from a mirror on paper.
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oldiesman
I loved the movie JFK.
Some believe it was the CIA who were protecting themselves from Kennedy.
Some believe it was the mafia.
Some even believe it was the Israeli Mossad in cooperation with the Jewish Mob, who had it in for Kennedy because he was against Israel becoming a nuclear state.
Here's a related quote:
Reuven Pedatzer in the Israeli newspaper, Ha'aretz, February 5, 1999, reviewing Avner Cohen's new book, "Israel and the Bomb".Whoever did it, one thing I believe -- Lee didn't act alone, if at all...
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Lifted Up
Exactly what I meant. The books come up with myriads of reasons why this or that agency, person, or country would have wanted JFK gone, but without any substantial evidence of any of these entities performing the act.
As much as I dont see things as George sees, I agree withhim here. (that will thrill him to no end I am sure.)
Now...bring on the UFO cover up conspiracy theories. I was watching something on that last night on the discovery channel, and I have seen a ton of it on the history channel.
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johniam
I do not believe for a moment that Oswald acted alone. There's a lot of suspects: the mob, Castro, the FBI, the CIA, Nixon, LBJ.
I have no evidence of this, but I believe J Edgar Hoover gave the order. Why was he assassinated? That would answer a lot of questions. I never saw the JFK movie, but among the bits and pieces of conspiracy info I tend to believe is.....
Oswald and Jack Ruby were seen together 2 weeks before the assassination at Ruby's business place
the parade route was changed suddenly at the last minute
witnesses on the ground heard at least 4 shots
Karyn Kupcinet, daughter of Chicago media person Irv Kupcinet, overheard some of Irv's friends discussing the assassination before it happened. She heard enough detail that on the day of the assassination she tried to call Dallas police from a pay phone in LA, where she worked as an actress. But she screwed up the procedure and only the operator heard her say repeatedly, "They're going to kill the president!", and 20 minutes later when they DID kill the president, the operator taped her call and gave it to authorities. Six days later Karyn Kupcinet was found dead. She'd been murdered.
Dorothy Kilgallen, syndicated columnist and 'What's My Line' panelist, was found dead under strange circumstances: She openly refuted the Warren Report in her newspaper column. She got to interview Jack Ruby. She had a prescription for seconal (us old hippies called them "reds") yet her autopsy found 3 different barbituates in her system. She had finished taping the What's My Line show on a Sunday night. Had a good night; she personally guessed 2 of the 5 contestants on that show. She came home, seemed peppy, retired to her bedroom, and was found the next day sitting up in bed with her clothes still on. Since she used the seconal to help her sleep, she knew damn well what amount of booze she could mix with it, but if somebody substituted different pills that looked the same in her pill container which was probably in her purse during the taping of the show, then she could have died quickly even without booze. Seems weird to me. Also, John Charles Daly, the show's host, was married to Earl Warren's daughter.
there were 103 people including Kupcinet and Kilgallen who died mysterious deaths within ten yrs after the assassination who all had some connection to the case. Very convenient.
I'm guessing it was about Vietnam. LBJ sent troops that JFK brought home back to Vietnam 2 weeks after the assassination.
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George Aar
One of the science channels (Discovery, TLC, History maybe) did an extensive testing of the "Magic Bullet" theory a while back.
They set up a tower at the exact height of the TSBD window, set up tracks with a Lincoln limo and an exact reproduction of the seating arrangement. They then made ballistic gel molds of Kennedy and Connelly and dressed the models in suits. They ran the Lincoln past the tower at the same speed as the original was going, and had a marksman take his shot - aiming at the base of Kennedy's neck (where his first wound was made).
And what was the result? The bullet went through the Kennedy dummy, into the Connelly dummy, exited the Connelly dummy and lodged in the "arm" of that model. The wound hole in the Connelly suit was almost an exact duplicate of Connelly's real one.
A "magic" bullet? I think not. And such is just about all the conspiracy theorists "evidence". It's all very compelling, until you really examine it.
BTW, Gerald Posner did an excellent analysis of the whole sordid mess in his book "Case Closed". He was rational, logical, and even-handed - all things the conspiracy authors are NOT - yet came to the conclusion that - the Warren Commission was right, no conspiracy.
But, as with any faith-based belief system, logic seldom wins the day...
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dmiller
Who shot jfk?? I might be able to answer that,
when I know who actually brought down the wtc.
(there is a conspiracy theory about that one, too.)
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topoftheworld
If you are not familiar with the circumstances and players surrounding the death of JFK, I would have to recommend William Manchester's "Death of a President." It is extremely readable, even though it contains a lot of detail, and I find it credible because Manchester was able to talk to witnesses within the four years following the assasination (the book was published in 1967).
I believe people will have conspiracy theories about any sudden or horrific loss, in part because the loss is so hard to bear, or when there is no clearcut explanation. Sometimes, tragidly, the theories will spring up from people who are simply looking for fame or notoriety.
For the record, I do believe that Oswald acted alone.
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mstar1
I also have studied this extensively and at this point there is only one conclusion that can be reached:
It was Colonel Mustard,
in the drawing room
with the candlestick
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johniam
Geo: Interesting that you dismiss all conspiracy theories about JFK, yet you accept all such about VPW. Nothing logical about that. Besides, the reason I tend to believe in a conspiracy about JFK is the same as some of the stuff about VPW: there's just too many "loose ends" to NOT believe there was a conspiracy.
Mstar: No, it was Prof Plum in the study with the revolver.
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George Aar
Except Johnur,
I saw VPW rant, rave, tear some poor S.O.B. and new one, make really questionable sexual remarks, beat his dog with a stick, and play the hero at every event he attended. A also know several women who were the recipients of his advances.
Once the hero-worship and warped, mystical thinking faded, it wasn't difficult to connect the dots.
With the JFK assassination, there's no such evidence available. Lots of wild speculation that doesn't stand up to any scrutiny.
Being a skeptic doesn't mean that I don't believe ANYTHING, just that I would like to have a modicum of proof first. When evidence is scarce, you have to make a judgement call as to what seems the most likely. Geeze, is that so hard to comprehend?
OH, and those "loose ends". Take a closer look and they aren't as loose as the cornspiracy authors would have you believe.
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Tom Strange
I thought Penn & Teller put this one to rest on Bulls!t...
...but in case they haven't... didn't Oswald suffer from "Military Industrial Complex"?
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Nottawayfer
JFK Murder Solved
The FBI employee mentioned in this article is now an elected official.....
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topoftheworld
Interesting-but not really credible, don't you think?
Niether Joe West, or Files-Sutton are included in the index of the Warren Commison Report, at least not the Unabridged Version that I have.
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johniam
quote: The FBI employee mentioned in this article is now an elected official.....
If it's Cheney, his aim isn't what it used to be.
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Ron G.
When I was in high school at Paschal in Ft. Worth, I ditched school to go to Dallas to see the president.
After that, I never ditched school again.
In 1969, I transferred from Texas Tech in Lubbock, Texas to University of Texas at Arlington to be closer to home and my parents (primary source of funding) and a job at JC Penney's delivery dept. (secondary source of funding).
At Texas Tech, I took two years of Latin. I wanted to continue, but UTA didn't offer Latin, so, wanting to continue with a foreign language, I took Russian, instead.
My teacher was a rather tall, athletic built gentleman...
He took a liking to me, telling me I had a "musical ear" and could easily emulate pronunciations and sound like a native speaker. He was a Russian native.
After college, I kept in touch with George, my old Russian teacher, who was by this time, teaching French at Bishop College in Dallas and I went to a photography school in Dallas. He helped me find a room to rent in Dallas from this gentleman who he knew of, but wasn't very friendly with...
on beautiful Turtle Creek Blvd. across from the creek down from Lee Park. The area provided me with a lot of wonderful subject matter for my photography classes.
Sadly, in 1978, my friend George took his own life (or so the story goes) in Florida upon receiving his subpoena to testify before the 1978 Kennedy assassination hearings that were ramrodded by, I think, Henry B. Gonzalez.
Suffice to say, there might be a great deal more than is in the Warren Commission findings, but it's best to forget, and put it all behind us.
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Tom Strange
Ron... who are those guys? share their significance please...
...I grew up in FW after you... did you ever eat at Caro's on bluebonnet circle (in those days they also had one over off of Camp Bowie)
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Eagle
I tend to think conspiracy, but I like that link on George Aar's post, I think I'll study it. I read Case Closed by Gerald Posner and was not convinced.
I think now Posner was the umbrella guy.
And the rumors I was in Dealey Plaza that day on a field trip from my sixth grade class are grossly exaggerated. Those pictures of me dressed up in my Halloween cop outfit with a badge on the grassy knoll are fakes. Yes, fakes.
Of course, I did have trouble later pasting Oswald's head onto some photos...
Eagle
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Ron G.
Yes, I remember Caro's on Bluebonnet Circle. I don't remember one on Camp Bowie, but I never got out that way, much.
Caro's was a wonderful Mexican restaurant owned by an Englishman. I don't remember his name (though I should) but he had a handlebar mustache, frequently quoted Kipling and drank Old Overholt rye whiskey mixed with apple juice.
His birthday was in November because he threw a huge party every November and all you needed to get in was proof you were born in November. He had all sorts of wild game, ice cold Michelob, Mexican food....it was wonderful!
He offered me a cigar once while proclaiming "a woman is just a woman, but a good cigar is a smoke"...a Kipling quote.
This was all a very, very long time ago (Maybe '69 or '70), but some things you NEVER forget.
The two gents pictured are George DeMohrenschildt and Edwin A. Walker.
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Tom Strange
well... we might have seen each other there then, even though (near as I can figure) I'm 8 or 9 years behind you... our family has eaten there since the late 50's... we grew up with their kids... and I still see them all (the ones who are around) and play golf with the oldest son... their name is Whitten, Caro is a name in the mom's family ... from down in the valley... small world huh?
(of course my mom went to high school in Bentonville and my Grandpa is buried in Springdale)
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Ron G.
That's interesting. The reason I became acquainted with Mr. Whitten is because back then I became fascinated with British military weapons and I had a little collection of .303 Enfields, Webley revolvers, bayonets, a Burma carbine and a couple of non functional wall hanger Sten guns...and, of course, I was a Kipling fan.
A friend who seemed to know him took me over to the restaurant and introduced me. Mr. Whitten was somewhat interested in my stuff, as I recall, but not nearly as interested in that as I became in the fare offered in his establishment. If I remember correctly, they made EVERYTHING, right down to the chips and flour tortillas right there on the premises from scratch...they got nothing from outside vendors. That was just a few months before I moved to Dallas to seek my fame and fortune. I quit eating there because I was gaining too much weight, but the food has remained a legend to me ever since. I've never had better.
I grew up about a mile or so from what was then Seminary South Shopping Center, went to Rosemont Jr Hi, and graduated from Paschal in 1966. I just got notice of the 40th anniversary reunion a couple of days ago, but probably won't go since it's such a long way to travel just to hang out with a bunch of old people.
In Dallas, I went to work for Zintgraff/Gittings photolabs where I ended up supervisor of the black and white printing, processing, restoration and special services area. I got to make new prints of all the old B&W evidence negatives from the Dallas Police Dept and the autopsy and forensic photos from Parkland Hospital from the Kennedy assassination for the 1978 hearings, which cleverly brings this derail back to the original thread. There was nothing to be gleaned from any of that material (by me, anyway), except I can assure you, Kennedy was really, really DEAD.
On a sidenote here, in '72, in Highland Park (in Dallas), I attended a Christian fellowship in a room above a garage a couple of times, but never went back. It was called "The Upper Room" fellowship run by a guy named Belt. It wasn't until years later I learned that was a TWI twig. The Zintgraff/Gittings lab moved me to Houston to run B&W lab there in '79. In '80, they sold out to another company who fired all of us managers and strawbosses and I went to work for Ron S. and his Photographic Display Corp. in Houston. It was there that I ran across a photographer who worked for Zapata Offshore drilling. Zapata was a big client of ours and paid most of our bills.
The gent in the top picture in the earlier post was not only a foreign language teacher, he was also a geologist and worked for various oil companies, including Zapata. The photographer from Zapata knew George pretty well, also and we discussed George's untimely demise a few times...and, of course, Kennedy's assassination.
A certain lady who posts here might read this and remember that she worked there, too. She was a WOW in Houston, at the time, and she's the one who signed me up for PFAL and introduced me to the rightly divided word taught as it hadn't been since the first century. Maybe she'll share how she and some of the other WOWs came to be employed there since that story is a hoot and a half in and of itself. It's even indirectly connected to all of this and she might be appalled at just how close she was to certain historical events and powerful people.
Yessir, it IS a small world.
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Greek2me
Personally, I always thought LBJ had somekind of role to play in the whole thing. After all, he became president, he escalated the vietnam situation and a lot of people in the vast military industrial complex from the great state o' Tejas made lots and lots of money.
I have no proof, mind you, but one conspiracy is as good as another, right?
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