DHS spokesman arrested in child sex stingBrian J. Doyle faces 23 charges
Tuesday, April 4, 2006; Posted: 11:54 p.m. EDT (03:54 GMT)
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- A deputy press secretary for the U.S. Department of Homeland Security was arrested Tuesday at his Maryland home on charges he used his computer in an attempt to seduce a child and transmitted harmful materials to a minor, according to the Polk County, Florida, Sheriff's Office.
Brian J. Doyle, 55, is charged with seven counts of use of a computer to seduce a child and 16 counts of transmission of harmful material to a minor, according to a sheriff's office statement.
In interviews with police, Doyle confessed and has agreed to waive extradition to Florida, Polk County Sheriff Grady Judd said.
On March 12, according to a police statement, Doyle contacted a Polk County computer crimes detective posing online as a 14-year-old girl "and initiated a sexually explicit conversation with her ... Doyle knew that the 'girl' was 14 years old, and he told her who he was and that he worked for the U.S. Department of Homeland Security."
Judd said that Doyle, in the first conversation, told the detective his position with DHS and "started immediately into pretty vulgar language. He explained in graphic detail the sexual acts he wanted to perform with this 14-year-old."
As the two continued chatting online, police said, Doyle gave her his home and office phone numbers, and the number to his government-issue cell phone. He also had explicit telephone conversations with a detective posing as the girl, authorities said.
In addition, he used the Internet to send "hard-core pornographic movie clips" to her, and also used an America Online instant-messaging service to have explicit online conversations with her.
"The investigation revealed that the phone numbers given to the detective were in fact Doyle's, and that the AOL account was registered to him," police said.
Doyle also sent photos of himself that were not sexually explicit, but said he would send nude photos if the "girl" would buy a Web camera and send him nude photos of herself. In one photo, Judd said, Doyle's DHS security tag is clearly visible.
"Many of the conversations he initiated ... are too extraordinary and graphic for public release," a statement from the sheriff's office said.
"I read the transcripts," Judd said. "I wanted to see if this was just as outrageous as the detectives depicted it ... It shocked all of us who have worked vice, narcotics, organized crime, homicides."
A DHS spokesman said the agency would cooperate in the probe.
"We take these allegations very seriously," Russ Knocke said, "and we will cooperate fully with the ongoing investigation."
Doyle, Judd said, is divorced and has children. Authorities believe he could have held similar conversations online with others, Judd said, because at some points during online chats he would address the detective by the wrong name.
Doyle never attempted to arrange a visit, Judd said, but did mention knowing someone in the region.
Before Doyle was arrested Tuesday night at his home in Silver Spring, Judd said, the detective had told him that she had access to a Web camera and that her mother would be away, so "he was eager to rush home from work."
As he was online, detectives from agencies including the U.S. Secret Service and the Montgomery County, Maryland, Police Department knocked on his door and served the arrest warrant, Judd said. They also executed a search warrant for his residence.
"We found his communication still on his computer with our undercover detective," he said. "Had we not been posing as a 14-year-old, Brian Doyle would have been grooming someone, some young lady, for a sexual encounter."
Amazingrace -- I agree. And that is why I am in favour of the death penalty, no concessions for plea bargaining, etc. Let the offender feel the full weight of the law, and perhaps others who might be tempted to do the same things will think twice if they see ZERO leniency, and to see it happen IMMEDIATELY, with no drawn out court processes, or appeals for years and years.
Do the crime --- do the time. Ain't no use for you to be crying.
While getting up in arms about this, does anybody know the age of consent in this situation? Or the age at which the law differentiates between 'misconduct' and rape?
I have long been SHOUTING at lawmakers and all others who 'serve' our children that as long as this country perceives anyone under 18 to be able to 'consent', or sees pubescent children as more capable in their abilities to understand sexuality, then this country is simply giving a nod of approval to such predators as Brian Doyle.
He gave her his name, his phone #, his office #, his position at DHS, his photo... I wouldn't call this a "cry for help," by any means, but he was just begging to be caught - at some level.
Think about it. How does somebody rise to his level of responsibility, Assistant Press Secretary for the Department of Homeland Security? Luck? This is somebody with the subtlety and skills to become the spokesman for the most high profile department in our government these days.
And this same individual is found on his home PC "chatting" with a 14-year old girl (in his mind) who has told him that she's recovering from leukemia. He offers her some sympathy then tells her what he'd like to do to her.
It should be obvious to anyone that the evil he was committing was compulsive. It blinded him.
Has anyone thought about how he was caught? Just luck? He was being monitored, probably by some department responsible for keeping surreptitious tabs on government officials, looking for security leaks. The monitor realized what was happening and a phone call was made to a police internet crimes unit to check out a certain chat room. Just a hunch.
Shouldn't Doyle have expected to be monitored?
Of course. Hello? Homeland Security? This thing blinded him to the obvious risks of his behavior to HIMSELF. If he didn't see the potential harm he could do himself, did he see the real harm he might do to a child?
I don't think he did.
The point is, the sex drive compels human beings to behave irrationally. The gay community is a good example. There is an AIDS epidemic and yet many persist in having "unprotected sex," infecting themselves and their partners as if blind to the behaviorally spread plague of death around them.
So how do we reach these people, and how do we (as a nation, society and culture) approach the possibility of interrupting their behavior?
12-step programs? They're fine when the compulsion is a "victimless" crime, like over-eating, drinking or drug addictions.
Counseling? That's okay for people with hand-washing compulsions, or harmless obsessions.
But what about pyromaniacs? Or molesters? They hurt people. And they don't seem to care about themselves that much. They have an instinct for self-preservation, for example, they conceal their identities, and occasionally even kill their victims to prevent discovery. But are they really protecting themselves, or just protecting this "demon" so it can be free to strike again?
I don't know the answer, but I know the public's lynch mob mentality is as primitive and ineffective as ever, and more likely to get an innocent person killed than have any impact on an apparent epidemic.
If we are to effectively interrupt these predators before they get their 117 odd victims (in the case of the "average molester"), we need to understand the mechanism of compulsive sexual drive. We need to recognize that the sexual drive is cyclical, and that the predator might be reached at it's low end. We need to make use of our knowledge, to exploit what we know.
If all we want to do is beat our chests in righteous anger then let's not change a thing. You all want more punishment? Fine. Burn them alive. Will that stop them all? Not a bit. The obsession does not fear death or consequences. It exists to fulfill itself, nothing more.
Brian Doyle's life is over. His humiliation is probably worse than death (to him). He is a leper, a pariah, a piece of filth in the eyes of everyone he ever cared about. His career is finished. His future is prison, possibly resulting in his own murder, and a life of abject shame. Look what it's cost him. You think he didn't know it could happen?
All of your anger and threats are useless. We need to be smarter about this.
I am very sorry for every victim, but the past can't be changed. The future could be changed, which means preventing future victims (if you care about them too), but we have to wake up and do it ourselves. The alternative is to wait for the predators to stop themselves, because we've scared them sooooo much. Good luck.
And whosoever, will not do the law of thy God, and the law of the king, let judgment be executed speedily upon him, whether it be unto death, or to banishment, or to confiscation of goods, or to imprisonment.
Ecclesiastes 8:11
Because sentence against an evil work is not executed speedily, therefore, the heart of the sons of men is fully set in them to do evil.
The law in America is tangled up in words. More than the law, Attorneys study different cases and judgements that allowed the law to be broken.
Some Judges are preferred over others, since 'their interpretation' of the law may help the criminal escape their earned judgement.
What kind of noise do WE the people need to make to have this crime against our children be lessened?
Death? that would be fine with me. How about SEX organ REMOVED? that would be good... here’s a great one… DROPPED in the middle of the OCEAN & left!
SOMETHING that would make the criminal think "OH NO... I'm dead"... and let the rest of the world cringe and those that had entertained the 'same ideas' slam that thought away forever~
The point is, the sex drive compels human beings to behave irrationally.
This is not about 'the sex drive'. This is about control and violence. I say more later on about this.
The gay community is a good example. There is an AIDS epidemic and yet many persist in having "unprotected sex," infecting themselves and their partners as if blind to the behaviorally spread plague of death around them.
Looking at this info from the CDC website, one can see that 22,857 estimated cases are from IV drug use, heterosexual contact, and other exposure. As opposed to 19,611 cases from male-to-male sexual contact and male-to-male sexual contact with IV drug use.
Of course, these are 2004 estimations. The 2005 information closely parallels the 2004 information.
HIV/AIDS hasn't been a 'gay disease' for quite awhile.
So how do we reach these people, and how do we (as a nation, society and culture) approach the possibility of interrupting their behavior?
Maybe first one needs to have an understanding of the difference between 'sex drive' and criminal behavior?
If we are to effectively interrupt these predators before they get their 117 odd victims (in the case of the "average molester"), we need to understand the mechanism of compulsive sexual drive. We need to recognize that the sexual drive is cyclical, and that the predator might be reached at it's low end. We need to make use of our knowledge, to exploit what we know.
It is disturbing that criminal behavior is called a 'sex drive'. This attitude is typical of the predators themselves. However, even professionals who are supposed to 'help' the problem categorize pedophilia as a 'sexual disorder'.
This mentality is like thinking of murder as an 'emotional outlet'.
I say more about this later on.
Brian Doyle's life is over. His humiliation is probably worse than death (to him). He is a leper, a pariah, a piece of filth in the eyes of everyone he ever cared about. His career is finished. His future is prison, possibly resulting in his own murder, and a life of abject shame. Look what it's cost him.
Yeah...right. Whistle in my other ear and tell me it's raining. Let's watch and see what really happens.
I am very sorry for every victim, but the past can't be changed. The future could be changed, which means preventing future victims (if you care about them too), but we have to wake up and do it ourselves. The alternative is to wait for the predators to stop themselves, because we've scared them sooooo much. Good luck.
This crime typically goes unreported. Why? For starters, society has mixed it up with sexuality and a 'sex drive'. As long as this mentality prevails, no victim will be fully believed...which means that before a perpetrator is caught the first time, he/she has perpetrated the crime many, many times already.
Yes, I know that pedophilia falls into the 'sexual disorders' category psychiatrically. As has been pointed out, psychiatric treatment has not and is not showing definitive positive results, if any at all, when it comes to stopping the perpetrator's behavior.
I'll speak from personal experience now...but first state a WARNING that this may be triggering...
From the age of 4 on, I was sexually abused.
I tried to tell.
When I went to mother, the result was that she saw me as competing for her man.
When I went to people at church, the result was that I was shunned and considered 'tainted' and 'possessed of seducing spirits'.
When I went to school authorities, the result was pretty much the same as going to people at church.
When I went to law enforcement authorities, I was told to 'be a good girl' and 'quit making him hurt you'.
Eventually I shut up.
I have no doubt in my mind that I was treated like this because people saw the whole situation as 'sexual'. And as long as it was 'heterosexual'...well, that was nobody's business.
Until this crime is perceived as a crime, not a 'sex drive', it will not be fully handled as a crime.
And until this crime is understood to be at least as devastating, as permanent, as irrevocable in its results as murder is, then this crime will continue to plague 1 in 4 homes across the nation. (I use that particular statistic only because that is the rate of reported instances. I believe that this crime is more prevalent.)
Looks to me that Coolwaters return argument amply demonstrated that seeing this kind of ((cough)) 'compulsive behavior' as the crime that it is sets the stage for having the surest means of combatting it, rather than trying to ((gag)) 'understand'. Doyle wasn't 'blinded' by it, he tried to hide it. Which shows deliberate effort and the realization that it was wrong.
And even with any kind of sexually related 'compulsion', it is always within the "compulsee's" ability to stop and realize when/where the sexual act isn't appropriate nor wanted. Ie., no means NO, and withdraw. That's why rape and other sexual misconduct in society are regarded as crimes, rather than sickness. So it is (or should be) with child porn/molestation.
I have to say, I find it very odd that you have so much empathy for pedophiles and so little empathy for those who fall on hard times and need financial assistance from the government for a time.
I agree with Coolwaters - this isn't a problem of sex drive. A man can take care of his sex drive without raping a woman or a child.
I'm thankful for those undercover operatives who trap this scumbags. It's got to be difficult for them, and I'm sure they need a shower after one of those "sessions". The people they target, who are targeting our youth, do not deserve any mercy.
I'm so tired of defenses that take away personal responsibility. If someone is truly mentally ill, that's one thing. But this guy (and many others who pull this crap) are functioning members of the community. When will someone just say "It's me, I did it, I'm just a sick ****, put me away".
BTY-parents who allow their kids to by a web cam need to monitor how it is being used. Saw a report on this the other day that referred to cams as being potential weapons. It's tough enough to deal with kids locked in their room with a computer, but add a web cam, and kids can get sucked into trouble without even understanding what they are doing.
We've been hearing this for years. Rape is not sex, it is violence and control.
Tell me then, how many castrated rapists have gone on to rape again? "Eunuchs" are not unknown historically to be capable of control and violence. But, somehow, sex doesn't interest them. Amazing, isn't it? Whad'd'ya think? Is this rocket science? For some of you, it is.
You know what? There is a thin layer of nerve tissue in the human brain that separates us from our most primitive instincts. If something goes wrong with that tissue, whether it's hardware or software is irrelevant, Jeckyl becomes Hyde. There are plenty of examples in people with certain brain injuries.
Now, what some of you mistake for empathy is nothing more, or less, than insight. Like it or not, we have much in common with pedophiles. They are human beings like us. They experience heat and cold, hunger and thirst, pain and pleasure... and even sexual desire. The only difference is the object of their desire, and the power of the perverting force, that twisted them in the first place, to make them act upon it even in the face of the direst consequences. Our revulsion means nothing to them. Nothing at all.
Suppose YOU lived in a country where heterosexual behavior was a crime in most ordinary circumstances - not only criminal, but considered morally and spiritually perverse. Maybe most of you have forgotten your teenage lust, but you were willing to break rules, to disregard the morality of others, to quench that desire.
A lot of people were put to death for "normal" feelings in Taliban-ruled Afghanistan not long ago, especially women. Of course, theirs were crimes of seduction, sin and perversity, and "control" of course, not mere sex. And that's only "normal" sex. Something that can warp a force as fundamental as the human sex drive can make people forget all about danger and risk, not to mention the modern conventions of "right and wrong."
My point of view is the result of being a thinking parent. I think about the best ways to remove dangers from my daughter's path. And I see that your lynch mob approach has wonderful results to show for itself. Every day, pedophiles are gladly turning themselves in, to be beaten, stabbed, burned, tortured, mutilated and/or murdered - because that would motivate anybody, as long as it would make y'all feel better. Right?
Some of you live in a childish and imaginary land where the good guys always prevail and once the bad guy is clobbered, everyone lives happily ever after. Come to think of it, that pretty much describes the Way Ministry, so it's not unfamiliar territory for you, is it?
Me on the other hand, I'm just naive enough to recognize reality. We need an approach that works to rid the parks and schools and chat rooms and family rooms of this menace.
I also think, if society gave these people a chance to reform, we'd see much stronger enforcement and harsher punishment for those who did not. Those who are caught, or who have been caught, should never be permitted to rejoin society. Whatever the reason for leniency in the present system, and I don't see any good reason, it would have far less support.
The trouble is, I want to save a little girl's life, and many of you just want revenge after the fact, which is your own version of "violence and control."
TIME OUT (please). Can those with differing opinions than Sarori's respond without attacking? Can Satori respond to them without attacking?
Both "sides" of this argument want the same thing: for it to stop.
Both "sides" of this argument agree that it's a heinous crime against humanity.
Do we really need to be "attacking" each other?
Can "we" put aside our attacks and find some common ground to discuss reasonably ways to deal with this?
I don't think we're going to solve it here, but I think that both "sides" agree that the folks committing these crimes need to be "off the streets. Can't we figure out a way to do that?
If people want to get actively involved in capturing these degenerate humans there are links at the site I posted on page one that tell you how to get involved at a lot of different levels. They rely on volunteers but I again warn you, it's not for the faint of heart. They'll teach you how to be involved with the local police departments, they'll coach you. It gets people off of the street before they can do any (or more) damage.
We've been hearing this for years. Rape is not sex, it is violence and control. Tell me then, how many castrated rapists have gone on to rape again?
Kinda answered your own question, have you not? They have lost their sexual organs, and yet still endeavor to rape again, thus strengthening the 'its not about sex, its about control' argument.
Tom, basically there are those of us who heard of the excuses/'reasons' that Satori listed in his posts, and more and more of us tire of them, (even given that both sides do want for this garbage to stop). But the excuses/reasons that I and Coolwaters are challenging do nothing to stem the tide.
And this supposedly coming from a guy who usually takes a rather hard-line approach against people who do these kinds of things. :unsure: Now I have to ask myself why the switch?
Sorry, but I don't buy the "there is but a thin distance between child abusers and the rest of us" argument. And the "suppose that you live in a country where heterosexual behavior was a crime" argument is nothing more than a false dilemma, even as regards countries where strict sexual controls are religously enforced, because w/o heterosexual behavior, there is NO offspring. These are but a few of the flaws that I see.
Frankly, I am still very skeptical of even treating it as a 'disease', especially given our current political/social atmosphere of treating more and more abusive behaviors as a 'sickness' that one has no power or responsibility over. That just has to cause people to stop and wonder.
So if we're going to deal with 'reality', then let's actually be realistic, hmmmm?
I have to say, I find it very odd that you have so much empathy for pedophiles and so little empathy for those who fall on hard times and need financial assistance from the government for a time.
Tom, this little comment just got the better of me I guess. My apologies.
Just when I posted somewhere else that you'll not see me arguing about anything...
I'm so tired of defenses that take away personal responsibility. If someone is truly mentally ill, that's one thing. But this guy (and many others who pull this crap) are functioning members of the community. When will someone just say "It's me, I did it, I'm just a sick ****, put me away".
Many truly mentally ill people function in society everyday. Serial killer, Ted Bundy and that BTK guy were capable, functioning members of society with extreme mental illnesses. One of the most prominent men in our community, a lawyer, developer, governor's aid, is now serving a life sentence for murdering his girlfriend, the governor's secretary. Proclaims his innocence to this day. He snapped. An obsessive compulsion made him snap.
Some mentally ill people do confess and say put me away. Others have split personalities. There are all kinds of reasons people don't confess, probably fear of what will happen if they do, being the greatest reason, but I don't really know.
Yes, Satori, rape is about violence and control, not the need to satisfy a sex drive.
In states where death penalities are allowed for murder, murder rates are higher.
It's been proven throughout history death for a crime does not diminish the crime.
As a "thinking parent" the only thing I can do is educate my children. Evil will lurk in all areas of society. People "cross the line everyday". If I fail to point out the dangers to my kids, if I fail to drill into them the steps that are necessary to keep themselves safe, then I've not done my job well.
I don't leave my kids alone on the computer. I thought most of the places they were going to were harmless. Last night, a review of the "history" proved me wrong. Innocent games from reputable web sites often have stuff attached to them. But I found some "sick stuff", not illegal, just "sick".
There is no one in my household who would have gone to some of the sites I found. My interent provider's response was "they must have gone there if it's in your history." I didn't dare open the names of the sites.... just by the names of them, I knew I would be highly offended.
Watching my son on the computer today, it was obvious how some of this crap got on our computer. Instead of typing "stickman games" in the search engine, he forgot the "t". Innocent mistake, but not good. It was a good opportunity for a talk. It was a good opportunity to see I need to monitor "everything".
Kinda answered your own question, have you not? They have lost their sexual organs, and yet still endeavor to rape again, thus strengthening the 'its not about sex, its about control' argument.
Garth, think about this. Okay? Tall order, I know. You can't site one example, first of all, and second, saying eunuchs "yet still endeavor to rape again" is the opposite of what I actually wrote.
Tom, basically there are those of us who heard of the excuses/'reasons' that Satori listed in his posts, and more and more of us tire of them, (even given that both sides do want for this garbage to stop). But the excuses/reasons that I and Coolwaters are challenging do nothing to stem the tide.
You are determined (or destined) to misunderstand, and that is your right. It's the mischaracterization I take issue with. I haven't excused anything. I also wonder if CoolWaters wants to be aligned with your line of, uh, "reasoning."
And this supposedly coming from a guy who usually takes a rather hard-line approach against people who do these kinds of things. :unsure: Now I have to ask myself why the switch?
No switch Garth. But my perspective has broadened. As Greasespot's own Clouseau, you've managed to read my answer (if you read anything at all) and still pose the question as if you're the first to consider it.
Sorry, but I don't buy the "there is but a thin distance between child abusers and the rest of us" argument. And the "suppose that you live in a country where heterosexual behavior was a crime" argument is nothing more than a false dilemma, even as regards countries where strict sexual controls are religously enforced, because w/o heterosexual behavior, there is NO offspring. These are but a few of the flaws that I see.
I'm really sorry Garth. You're not gonna get it, no matter how hard I try. It's not your fault though. Heredity? Environment? Who can say?
Frankly, I am still very skeptical of even treating it as a 'disease', especially given our current political/social atmosphere of treating more and more abusive behaviors as a 'sickness' that one has no power or responsibility over. That just has to cause people to stop and wonder.
This post has made ME stop and wonder - I wonder where I said it was a "disease." I also wonder why a "disease" and moral accountablity are necessarily mutually exclusive. Please explain. (This oughta be good.)
So if we're going to deal with 'reality', then let's actually be realistic, hmmmm?
A good starting point might be to understand what I've written here, rather than just impose your own presumptions, Garth. That's all you've done so far, setting up your own "straw man."
I'll concede that rape is about "violence and control" if the rest of you will concede that "violence and control" is about sex.
How many ways is sexuality expressed? One? Two? Let's see... "first comes love, then comes marriage, then comes Junior in the baby carriage." Is that all?
Sex, you people, is not what you've seen on TV. Violence is about control. Control is about domination. Domination is about mating and procreation. Procreation is about sex.
No matter how tepid and tame it may be portrayed to be in the American middle-class experience, sex is at the root of most controlling and violent behavior in the world, and that includes the animal kingdom as well as the human. (I can't speak for vegetation, but maybe Garth could share a bit.) NOT the other way around.
Kinda answered your own question, have you not? They have lost their sexual organs, and yet still endeavor to rape again, thus strengthening the 'its not about sex, its about control' argument.
Garth, think about this. Okay? Tall order, I know.
Yes I have thought about it, and am surprised that you didn't see it earlier. If one goes thru castration and he still tries to rape, the loss of the sexual organs keep rape from being a sexual event. Castration does not, however, stop it from being a crime of control. Now, please illustrate to me how I 'didn't think about this' in my explanation.
2) The reasons that you gave does leave one with the impression that they were excuses for the behavior. Or at the very least, reasons that seemed to water down the responsibility of those who do the abuses. The "there is but a thin distance between child abusers and the rest of us" (in what they do) argument also helps to water down the issue.
3)
Sorry, but I don't buy the "there is but a thin distance between child abusers and the rest of us" argument. And the "suppose that you live in a country where heterosexual behavior was a crime" argument is nothing more than a false dilemma, even as regards countries where strict sexual controls are religously enforced, because w/o heterosexual behavior, there is NO offspring. These are but a few of the flaws that I see.
I'm really sorry Garth. You're not gonna get it, no matter how hard I try. It's not your fault though. Heredity? Environment? Who can say?
??? This is the best response that you can give to the specific points as to why I "don't buy it"? You make no effort to show me specifically why my points are faulty? Or maybe you can point them out anyway, for the benefit of others here (if I am so mindless in your opinion). Perhaps you can show us more of that please, and less of mistaking snide retorts for principled truth.
4)
I wonder where I said it was a "disease." I also wonder why a "disease" and moral accountablity are necessarily mutually exclusive. Please explain. (This oughta be good.)
That's right, you haven't said that it was a disease; I never said that you did. Nor are disease and moral accountability mutually exclusive. However, moral accountability seemed to take a back seat with you where Doyle was concerned. The majority of your posts took more of a "Who are we to judge; let's all try to understand" flavor. (I wonder if it was Clinton or any of the Islamic terrorists onvolved, if your perspective would have been so 'broadened'?)
((shrugs)) Think what you will. ..... Oh, and your insults are getting old and stale.
((Update)) And this line of yours definitely takes the cake in the Desperation Dept.
Sex, you people, is not what you've seen on TV. Violence is about control. Control is about domination. Domination is about mating and procreation. Procreation is about sex. No matter how tepid and tame it may be portrayed to be in the American middle-class experience, sex is at the root of most controlling and violent behavior in the world, and that includes the animal kingdom as well as the human. (I can't speak for vegetation, but maybe Garth could share a bit.) NOT the other way around.
:D :D Dude, you're losing it! I've seen you reason MUCH better than this in previous posts!
----------------------
In any event folks, whatever the case may be with Doyle, I hope that he's dealt with quickly w/ no foot dragging by his supporters.
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dmiller
I have three words only --- MAY HE FRY.
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Amazingrace
and HE DESERVES TO, but will he?
Why do I feel that because he's in a position of power that he'll get off with a slap on the hand?
If justice is served here, he'll get and deserves the maximum sentence.
This is truly outrageous.
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dmiller
Amazingrace -- I agree. And that is why I am in favour of the death penalty, no concessions for plea bargaining, etc. Let the offender feel the full weight of the law, and perhaps others who might be tempted to do the same things will think twice if they see ZERO leniency, and to see it happen IMMEDIATELY, with no drawn out court processes, or appeals for years and years.
Do the crime --- do the time. Ain't no use for you to be crying.
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doojable
There are many places one can - FRY!
I'm sure someone can find a place for him...
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CoolWaters
While getting up in arms about this, does anybody know the age of consent in this situation? Or the age at which the law differentiates between 'misconduct' and rape?
I have long been SHOUTING at lawmakers and all others who 'serve' our children that as long as this country perceives anyone under 18 to be able to 'consent', or sees pubescent children as more capable in their abilities to understand sexuality, then this country is simply giving a nod of approval to such predators as Brian Doyle.
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Tom Strange
It is disgusting, but there's sick-o's everywhere...
I saw this group on TV the other day: www.perverted-justice.com
They work with local and national authorities to help get these sick folks off of "the street".
The site is not for the faint of heart, but they do offer ways for your participation and help should you wish to assist them.
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satori001
He gave her his name, his phone #, his office #, his position at DHS, his photo... I wouldn't call this a "cry for help," by any means, but he was just begging to be caught - at some level.
Think about it. How does somebody rise to his level of responsibility, Assistant Press Secretary for the Department of Homeland Security? Luck? This is somebody with the subtlety and skills to become the spokesman for the most high profile department in our government these days.
And this same individual is found on his home PC "chatting" with a 14-year old girl (in his mind) who has told him that she's recovering from leukemia. He offers her some sympathy then tells her what he'd like to do to her.
It should be obvious to anyone that the evil he was committing was compulsive. It blinded him.
Has anyone thought about how he was caught? Just luck? He was being monitored, probably by some department responsible for keeping surreptitious tabs on government officials, looking for security leaks. The monitor realized what was happening and a phone call was made to a police internet crimes unit to check out a certain chat room. Just a hunch.
Shouldn't Doyle have expected to be monitored?
Of course. Hello? Homeland Security? This thing blinded him to the obvious risks of his behavior to HIMSELF. If he didn't see the potential harm he could do himself, did he see the real harm he might do to a child?
I don't think he did.
The point is, the sex drive compels human beings to behave irrationally. The gay community is a good example. There is an AIDS epidemic and yet many persist in having "unprotected sex," infecting themselves and their partners as if blind to the behaviorally spread plague of death around them.
So how do we reach these people, and how do we (as a nation, society and culture) approach the possibility of interrupting their behavior?
12-step programs? They're fine when the compulsion is a "victimless" crime, like over-eating, drinking or drug addictions.
Counseling? That's okay for people with hand-washing compulsions, or harmless obsessions.
But what about pyromaniacs? Or molesters? They hurt people. And they don't seem to care about themselves that much. They have an instinct for self-preservation, for example, they conceal their identities, and occasionally even kill their victims to prevent discovery. But are they really protecting themselves, or just protecting this "demon" so it can be free to strike again?
I don't know the answer, but I know the public's lynch mob mentality is as primitive and ineffective as ever, and more likely to get an innocent person killed than have any impact on an apparent epidemic.
If we are to effectively interrupt these predators before they get their 117 odd victims (in the case of the "average molester"), we need to understand the mechanism of compulsive sexual drive. We need to recognize that the sexual drive is cyclical, and that the predator might be reached at it's low end. We need to make use of our knowledge, to exploit what we know.
If all we want to do is beat our chests in righteous anger then let's not change a thing. You all want more punishment? Fine. Burn them alive. Will that stop them all? Not a bit. The obsession does not fear death or consequences. It exists to fulfill itself, nothing more.
Brian Doyle's life is over. His humiliation is probably worse than death (to him). He is a leper, a pariah, a piece of filth in the eyes of everyone he ever cared about. His career is finished. His future is prison, possibly resulting in his own murder, and a life of abject shame. Look what it's cost him. You think he didn't know it could happen?
All of your anger and threats are useless. We need to be smarter about this.
I am very sorry for every victim, but the past can't be changed. The future could be changed, which means preventing future victims (if you care about them too), but we have to wake up and do it ourselves. The alternative is to wait for the predators to stop themselves, because we've scared them sooooo much. Good luck.
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SafariVista
FLITHY, DISGUSTING, UNEXCUSABLE, DEVILISH, DAMAGING
Ezra 7:26
And whosoever, will not do the law of thy God, and the law of the king, let judgment be executed speedily upon him, whether it be unto death, or to banishment, or to confiscation of goods, or to imprisonment.
Ecclesiastes 8:11
Because sentence against an evil work is not executed speedily, therefore, the heart of the sons of men is fully set in them to do evil.
The law in America is tangled up in words. More than the law, Attorneys study different cases and judgements that allowed the law to be broken.
Some Judges are preferred over others, since 'their interpretation' of the law may help the criminal escape their earned judgement.
What kind of noise do WE the people need to make to have this crime against our children be lessened?
Death? that would be fine with me. How about SEX organ REMOVED? that would be good... here’s a great one… DROPPED in the middle of the OCEAN & left!
SOMETHING that would make the criminal think "OH NO... I'm dead"... and let the rest of the world cringe and those that had entertained the 'same ideas' slam that thought away forever~
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CoolWaters
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GarthP2000
Looks to me that Coolwaters return argument amply demonstrated that seeing this kind of ((cough)) 'compulsive behavior' as the crime that it is sets the stage for having the surest means of combatting it, rather than trying to ((gag)) 'understand'. Doyle wasn't 'blinded' by it, he tried to hide it. Which shows deliberate effort and the realization that it was wrong.
And even with any kind of sexually related 'compulsion', it is always within the "compulsee's" ability to stop and realize when/where the sexual act isn't appropriate nor wanted. Ie., no means NO, and withdraw. That's why rape and other sexual misconduct in society are regarded as crimes, rather than sickness. So it is (or should be) with child porn/molestation.
No excuses. ... Simple.
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allan w.
Scientifically you'll never get to the 'root cause'
Pscycologically "" "" ""
Biologically "" "" ""
Because the 'root cause' of it is SPIRITUAL.
This is one of those examples where 'science' is at odds with 'religious answers.
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Shellon
This freak that gave all his info to a person he thought was a 14 year old girl needn't have worried if he got caught and he knew it.
Sex offenders don't have to do much time, maybe he needed a few months vacation.
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Abigail
Satori,
I have to say, I find it very odd that you have so much empathy for pedophiles and so little empathy for those who fall on hard times and need financial assistance from the government for a time.
I agree with Coolwaters - this isn't a problem of sex drive. A man can take care of his sex drive without raping a woman or a child.
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topoftheworld
I'm thankful for those undercover operatives who trap this scumbags. It's got to be difficult for them, and I'm sure they need a shower after one of those "sessions". The people they target, who are targeting our youth, do not deserve any mercy.
I'm so tired of defenses that take away personal responsibility. If someone is truly mentally ill, that's one thing. But this guy (and many others who pull this crap) are functioning members of the community. When will someone just say "It's me, I did it, I'm just a sick ****, put me away".
BTY-parents who allow their kids to by a web cam need to monitor how it is being used. Saw a report on this the other day that referred to cams as being potential weapons. It's tough enough to deal with kids locked in their room with a computer, but add a web cam, and kids can get sucked into trouble without even understanding what they are doing.
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satori001
We've been hearing this for years. Rape is not sex, it is violence and control.
Tell me then, how many castrated rapists have gone on to rape again? "Eunuchs" are not unknown historically to be capable of control and violence. But, somehow, sex doesn't interest them. Amazing, isn't it? Whad'd'ya think? Is this rocket science? For some of you, it is.
You know what? There is a thin layer of nerve tissue in the human brain that separates us from our most primitive instincts. If something goes wrong with that tissue, whether it's hardware or software is irrelevant, Jeckyl becomes Hyde. There are plenty of examples in people with certain brain injuries.
Now, what some of you mistake for empathy is nothing more, or less, than insight. Like it or not, we have much in common with pedophiles. They are human beings like us. They experience heat and cold, hunger and thirst, pain and pleasure... and even sexual desire. The only difference is the object of their desire, and the power of the perverting force, that twisted them in the first place, to make them act upon it even in the face of the direst consequences. Our revulsion means nothing to them. Nothing at all.
Suppose YOU lived in a country where heterosexual behavior was a crime in most ordinary circumstances - not only criminal, but considered morally and spiritually perverse. Maybe most of you have forgotten your teenage lust, but you were willing to break rules, to disregard the morality of others, to quench that desire.
A lot of people were put to death for "normal" feelings in Taliban-ruled Afghanistan not long ago, especially women. Of course, theirs were crimes of seduction, sin and perversity, and "control" of course, not mere sex. And that's only "normal" sex. Something that can warp a force as fundamental as the human sex drive can make people forget all about danger and risk, not to mention the modern conventions of "right and wrong."
My point of view is the result of being a thinking parent. I think about the best ways to remove dangers from my daughter's path. And I see that your lynch mob approach has wonderful results to show for itself. Every day, pedophiles are gladly turning themselves in, to be beaten, stabbed, burned, tortured, mutilated and/or murdered - because that would motivate anybody, as long as it would make y'all feel better. Right?
Some of you live in a childish and imaginary land where the good guys always prevail and once the bad guy is clobbered, everyone lives happily ever after. Come to think of it, that pretty much describes the Way Ministry, so it's not unfamiliar territory for you, is it?
Me on the other hand, I'm just naive enough to recognize reality. We need an approach that works to rid the parks and schools and chat rooms and family rooms of this menace.
I also think, if society gave these people a chance to reform, we'd see much stronger enforcement and harsher punishment for those who did not. Those who are caught, or who have been caught, should never be permitted to rejoin society. Whatever the reason for leniency in the present system, and I don't see any good reason, it would have far less support.
The trouble is, I want to save a little girl's life, and many of you just want revenge after the fact, which is your own version of "violence and control."
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Tom Strange
TIME OUT (please). Can those with differing opinions than Sarori's respond without attacking? Can Satori respond to them without attacking?
Both "sides" of this argument want the same thing: for it to stop.
Both "sides" of this argument agree that it's a heinous crime against humanity.
Do we really need to be "attacking" each other?
Can "we" put aside our attacks and find some common ground to discuss reasonably ways to deal with this?
I don't think we're going to solve it here, but I think that both "sides" agree that the folks committing these crimes need to be "off the streets. Can't we figure out a way to do that?
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Tom Strange
If people want to get actively involved in capturing these degenerate humans there are links at the site I posted on page one that tell you how to get involved at a lot of different levels. They rely on volunteers but I again warn you, it's not for the faint of heart. They'll teach you how to be involved with the local police departments, they'll coach you. It gets people off of the street before they can do any (or more) damage.
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GarthP2000
Kinda answered your own question, have you not? They have lost their sexual organs, and yet still endeavor to rape again, thus strengthening the 'its not about sex, its about control' argument.
Tom, basically there are those of us who heard of the excuses/'reasons' that Satori listed in his posts, and more and more of us tire of them, (even given that both sides do want for this garbage to stop). But the excuses/reasons that I and Coolwaters are challenging do nothing to stem the tide.
And this supposedly coming from a guy who usually takes a rather hard-line approach against people who do these kinds of things. :unsure: Now I have to ask myself why the switch?
Sorry, but I don't buy the "there is but a thin distance between child abusers and the rest of us" argument. And the "suppose that you live in a country where heterosexual behavior was a crime" argument is nothing more than a false dilemma, even as regards countries where strict sexual controls are religously enforced, because w/o heterosexual behavior, there is NO offspring. These are but a few of the flaws that I see.
Frankly, I am still very skeptical of even treating it as a 'disease', especially given our current political/social atmosphere of treating more and more abusive behaviors as a 'sickness' that one has no power or responsibility over. That just has to cause people to stop and wonder.
So if we're going to deal with 'reality', then let's actually be realistic, hmmmm?
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satori001
Tom, this little comment just got the better of me I guess. My apologies.
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Amazingrace
Just when I posted somewhere else that you'll not see me arguing about anything...
Many truly mentally ill people function in society everyday. Serial killer, Ted Bundy and that BTK guy were capable, functioning members of society with extreme mental illnesses. One of the most prominent men in our community, a lawyer, developer, governor's aid, is now serving a life sentence for murdering his girlfriend, the governor's secretary. Proclaims his innocence to this day. He snapped. An obsessive compulsion made him snap.
Some mentally ill people do confess and say put me away. Others have split personalities. There are all kinds of reasons people don't confess, probably fear of what will happen if they do, being the greatest reason, but I don't really know.
Yes, Satori, rape is about violence and control, not the need to satisfy a sex drive.
In states where death penalities are allowed for murder, murder rates are higher.
It's been proven throughout history death for a crime does not diminish the crime.
As a "thinking parent" the only thing I can do is educate my children. Evil will lurk in all areas of society. People "cross the line everyday". If I fail to point out the dangers to my kids, if I fail to drill into them the steps that are necessary to keep themselves safe, then I've not done my job well.
I don't leave my kids alone on the computer. I thought most of the places they were going to were harmless. Last night, a review of the "history" proved me wrong. Innocent games from reputable web sites often have stuff attached to them. But I found some "sick stuff", not illegal, just "sick".
There is no one in my household who would have gone to some of the sites I found. My interent provider's response was "they must have gone there if it's in your history." I didn't dare open the names of the sites.... just by the names of them, I knew I would be highly offended.
Watching my son on the computer today, it was obvious how some of this crap got on our computer. Instead of typing "stickman games" in the search engine, he forgot the "t". Innocent mistake, but not good. It was a good opportunity for a talk. It was a good opportunity to see I need to monitor "everything".
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satori001
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satori001
I'll concede that rape is about "violence and control" if the rest of you will concede that "violence and control" is about sex.
How many ways is sexuality expressed? One? Two? Let's see... "first comes love, then comes marriage, then comes Junior in the baby carriage." Is that all?
Sex, you people, is not what you've seen on TV. Violence is about control. Control is about domination. Domination is about mating and procreation. Procreation is about sex.
No matter how tepid and tame it may be portrayed to be in the American middle-class experience, sex is at the root of most controlling and violent behavior in the world, and that includes the animal kingdom as well as the human. (I can't speak for vegetation, but maybe Garth could share a bit.) NOT the other way around.
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GarthP2000
Satori,
1)
Yes I have thought about it, and am surprised that you didn't see it earlier. If one goes thru castration and he still tries to rape, the loss of the sexual organs keep rape from being a sexual event. Castration does not, however, stop it from being a crime of control. Now, please illustrate to me how I 'didn't think about this' in my explanation.2) The reasons that you gave does leave one with the impression that they were excuses for the behavior. Or at the very least, reasons that seemed to water down the responsibility of those who do the abuses. The "there is but a thin distance between child abusers and the rest of us" (in what they do) argument also helps to water down the issue.
3)
??? This is the best response that you can give to the specific points as to why I "don't buy it"? You make no effort to show me specifically why my points are faulty? Or maybe you can point them out anyway, for the benefit of others here (if I am so mindless in your opinion). Perhaps you can show us more of that please, and less of mistaking snide retorts for principled truth.
4)
That's right, you haven't said that it was a disease; I never said that you did. Nor are disease and moral accountability mutually exclusive. However, moral accountability seemed to take a back seat with you where Doyle was concerned. The majority of your posts took more of a "Who are we to judge; let's all try to understand" flavor. (I wonder if it was Clinton or any of the Islamic terrorists onvolved, if your perspective would have been so 'broadened'?)((shrugs)) Think what you will. ..... Oh, and your insults are getting old and stale.
((Update)) And this line of yours definitely takes the cake in the Desperation Dept.
:D :D Dude, you're losing it! I've seen you reason MUCH better than this in previous posts!
----------------------
In any event folks, whatever the case may be with Doyle, I hope that he's dealt with quickly w/ no foot dragging by his supporters.
((still snickering about Satori's latest post))
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sirguessalot
my 2 cents...
"sexuality," perhaps, is a better place to start than mere "sex"
when it comes to discussing man's inhumanity to man
and the causes of most all forms of masculine violence
(not to mention why some seem to enjoy the prolonging of various forms conflict)
sorry if not relevant enough to this thread...just thought I'd mention it
peace
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