I had to think really hard to actually remember the text of the verse... It's not one I go to much anymore. TWI's example of the "more abundant life" was so far from abundant that it tainted the meaning of the word for me. That "more abundant life" just means misery, slavery, oppression, greed, manipulation, and destruction. Funny, sounds more like "steal, kill, and destroy," does it not?
Honestly, I rarely read the Bible anymore. I do listen to the Bible being read by someone else - it bypasses the part of my brain that associates it with my experiences in TWI. Otherwise it doesn't serve any purpose but to cause me to relive that hell over and over again.
I do attend church regularly. I found that I enjoy the Roman Catholic mass very much - probably because it is so very different from TWI. I haven't lost my belief in God, but I don't try to make Him/Her/It into something I can understand completely. I no longer believe in the perfection of the "rightly divided word of God" and the "mathematical precision/scientific accuracy" or whatever they called it. God's too big to be contained in a book.
Well, that was a tangent... So, John 10:10 - what sticks out for me is a whole lot of $#!TTY memories from the tine I was in TWI. The verse has lost all positive meaning for me.
That will work JJ, thanks. Really just looking for an impression, can you remember when you first heard the verse? Before maybe twi's memory pegs took hold.
I second (or third) what JJ said, and that's why I never read AV (KJV) any more, too many tainted word studies. I think: The thief - TWI - but there really is a much more abundant life there, working with genuine Christians who truly love God and Jesus. And with that, I have peace of mind - which is life more (than) abundant.
The first time was in TWI. A few weeks ago it was the scripture reading at Mass, and that was really weird... They focused on the love God has for us, not the steal, kill, and destroy part.
Irony is what strikes me. Wierwille promoted himself as one who disdained privately interpreting scriptures yet he did exactly that by taking this verse out of context and making it say something it clearly does not. He used it to promote the importance of PFAL as a gateway to the "abundance" he saw non-Christians manifesting. (AKA material things) In context, this verse has nothing at all to do with such matters. He cherry-picked it and contorted the meaning to suit his agenda. It was not by accident.
The first thing that pops into my head when when I hear the reference is 'The Thief' (with emphasis on 'Thief'). Even after 25 years my mind still puts the emphasis on the negative. The verse really is all about the positive that Jesus Christ came to give us something we couldn't obtain for ourselves. That was acknowledged during the first minutes of the first session of PFAL, but was quickly obscured.
So, if you feel that you have been stolen from, killed or destroyed - who is responsible? What will you do about it?
As I read some of these threads my heart breaks because I see people who have turned their backs on the Saviour because they were hurt by people who claimed to represent the Saviour.
The first time I heard that verse was in pfal. It was presented as the foundational verse for a 34 hour class. It sounded positive. I was interested.
Back in elementary school I was taught that some words are compound words. Bookkeeper. Helpmeet. Even the obscene word m#####f##### is a compound word. Let's go further. Some thoughts are compound thoughts, eh? John 10:10 is a compound thought. Thief/I (Jesus). Steal kill and destroy/have life and have it more abundantly. This is not the only verse which compares what God wants and what the devil wants, is it? I can think of one...
Eph.4:31,32 - Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamour and evil speaking be put away from you with all malice...
and be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted (another compound word), forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.
Clearly, the devil wants bitterness etc. for us, and God wants kindness etc. for us.
quote:... So, John 10:10 - what sticks out for me is a whole lot of $#!TTY memories from the tine I was in TWI. The verse has lost all positive meaning for me.
Hey Jane, if God's so big that He can't be contained in a book, then how come He's so small that He can't heal your heart?
Hey Jane, if God's so big that He can't be contained in a book, then how come He's so small that He can't heal your heart?
Is that a dig at someone, John?
The Healer of Broken Hearts surely can bind them together again.
There sometimes remains scars; you can remember why the scar is there. Maybe the scar is a little tender, so you avoid touching it. Maybe the scar is not fully formed yet, and underneath still hurts. Maybe the scar is in a really obvious place and you can't avoid encountering it daily.
The first time I heard that verse was in pfal. It was presented as the foundational verse for a 34 hour class. It sounded positive. I was interested.
Back in elementary school I was taught that some words are compound words. Bookkeeper. Helpmeet. Even the obscene word m#####f##### is a compound word. Let's go further. Some thoughts are compound thoughts, eh? John 10:10 is a compound thought. Thief/I (Jesus). Steal kill and destroy/have life and have it more abundantly. This is not the only verse which compares what God wants and what the devil wants, is it? I can think of one...
Eph.4:31,32 - Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamour and evil speaking be put away from you with all malice...
and be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted (another compound word), forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.
Clearly, the devil wants bitterness etc. for us, and God wants kindness etc. for us.
quote:... So, John 10:10 - what sticks out for me is a whole lot of $#!TTY memories from the tine I was in TWI. The verse has lost all positive meaning for me.
Hey Jane, if God's so big that He can't be contained in a book, then how come He's so small that He can't heal your heart?
It's also a bogus nugget to build a ministry on.
Is life really all about a fight between good and evil?
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Twinky
"I" (meaning Jesus).
and "life to the full" (other versions, not AV).
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JavaJane
I had to think really hard to actually remember the text of the verse... It's not one I go to much anymore. TWI's example of the "more abundant life" was so far from abundant that it tainted the meaning of the word for me. That "more abundant life" just means misery, slavery, oppression, greed, manipulation, and destruction. Funny, sounds more like "steal, kill, and destroy," does it not?
Honestly, I rarely read the Bible anymore. I do listen to the Bible being read by someone else - it bypasses the part of my brain that associates it with my experiences in TWI. Otherwise it doesn't serve any purpose but to cause me to relive that hell over and over again.
I do attend church regularly. I found that I enjoy the Roman Catholic mass very much - probably because it is so very different from TWI. I haven't lost my belief in God, but I don't try to make Him/Her/It into something I can understand completely. I no longer believe in the perfection of the "rightly divided word of God" and the "mathematical precision/scientific accuracy" or whatever they called it. God's too big to be contained in a book.
Well, that was a tangent... So, John 10:10 - what sticks out for me is a whole lot of $#!TTY memories from the tine I was in TWI. The verse has lost all positive meaning for me.
That answer the question?
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Bolshevik
That will work JJ, thanks. Really just looking for an impression, can you remember when you first heard the verse? Before maybe twi's memory pegs took hold.
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Twinky
I second (or third) what JJ said, and that's why I never read AV (KJV) any more, too many tainted word studies. I think: The thief - TWI - but there really is a much more abundant life there, working with genuine Christians who truly love God and Jesus. And with that, I have peace of mind - which is life more (than) abundant.
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JavaJane
The first time was in TWI. A few weeks ago it was the scripture reading at Mass, and that was really weird... They focused on the love God has for us, not the steal, kill, and destroy part.
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waysider
Irony is what strikes me. Wierwille promoted himself as one who disdained privately interpreting scriptures yet he did exactly that by taking this verse out of context and making it say something it clearly does not. He used it to promote the importance of PFAL as a gateway to the "abundance" he saw non-Christians manifesting. (AKA material things) In context, this verse has nothing at all to do with such matters. He cherry-picked it and contorted the meaning to suit his agenda. It was not by accident.
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Kevin Fallon
The first thing that pops into my head when when I hear the reference is 'The Thief' (with emphasis on 'Thief'). Even after 25 years my mind still puts the emphasis on the negative. The verse really is all about the positive that Jesus Christ came to give us something we couldn't obtain for ourselves. That was acknowledged during the first minutes of the first session of PFAL, but was quickly obscured.
So, if you feel that you have been stolen from, killed or destroyed - who is responsible? What will you do about it?
As I read some of these threads my heart breaks because I see people who have turned their backs on the Saviour because they were hurt by people who claimed to represent the Saviour.
My question is: who is the winner in that case?
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Oakspear
I can still recite John 10:10 in Spanish...
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Kevin Fallon
And in how many languages can you say 'Don't worry about it'? (Couldn't figure out how to type it with the appropriate accent.)
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johniam
The first time I heard that verse was in pfal. It was presented as the foundational verse for a 34 hour class. It sounded positive. I was interested.
Back in elementary school I was taught that some words are compound words. Bookkeeper. Helpmeet. Even the obscene word m#####f##### is a compound word. Let's go further. Some thoughts are compound thoughts, eh? John 10:10 is a compound thought. Thief/I (Jesus). Steal kill and destroy/have life and have it more abundantly. This is not the only verse which compares what God wants and what the devil wants, is it? I can think of one...
Eph.4:31,32 - Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamour and evil speaking be put away from you with all malice...
and be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted (another compound word), forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.
Clearly, the devil wants bitterness etc. for us, and God wants kindness etc. for us.
quote:... So, John 10:10 - what sticks out for me is a whole lot of $#!TTY memories from the tine I was in TWI. The verse has lost all positive meaning for me.
Hey Jane, if God's so big that He can't be contained in a book, then how come He's so small that He can't heal your heart?
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Twinky
Is that a dig at someone, John?
The Healer of Broken Hearts surely can bind them together again.
There sometimes remains scars; you can remember why the scar is there. Maybe the scar is a little tender, so you avoid touching it. Maybe the scar is not fully formed yet, and underneath still hurts. Maybe the scar is in a really obvious place and you can't avoid encountering it daily.
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Bolshevik
Thanks johniam, this is what I'm looking for.
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Rocky
It's also a bogus nugget to build a ministry on.
Is life really all about a fight between good and evil?
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Broken Arrow
At the risk of derailing this thread, yes, I think it is about a fight between good and evil. It makes for the best movie plots too.
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Bolshevik
Batman doesn't work that way.
Just looking for impressions here. There's no right or wrong or praise or guilt.
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JavaJane
ah, John... I see you haven't changed.
Thankfully, I have, and your opinion of me and my beliefs matters not to me. You have yours, I have mine.
In that change of beliefs I feel my heart has been healed. I hope yours has, too, if you suffered hurt.
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