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I came over here so I wouldnt have to respond to you at all.

https://www.heraldopenaccess.us/openaccess/dissociation-and-confabulation-in-narcissistic-disorders Narcissists and psychopaths dissociate (erase memories) a lot (are amnesiac) because their contact with the world and with others is via a fictitious construct: The False Self. Narcissists never experience reality directly but through a distorting lens darkly. They get rid of any information that challenges their grandiose self-perception and the narrative they had constructed to explicate, excuse and legitimize their antisocial, self-centred and exploitative behaviors, choices and idiosyncrasies. In an attempt to compensate for the yawning gaps in memory, narcissists and psychopaths confabulate: They invent plausible "plug ins" and scenarios of how things might, could, or should have plausibly occurred. To outsiders, these fictional stopgaps appear as lies. But the narcissist fervently believes in their reality: He may not actually remember what had happened-but surely it could not have happened any other way! These tenuous concocted fillers are subject to frequent revision as the narcissist's inner world and external circumstances evolve. This is why narcissists and psychopaths often contradict themselves. Tomorrow's confabulation often negates yesterday's. The narcissist and psychopath do not remember their previous tales because they are not invested with the emotions and cognitions that are integral parts of real memories.

So to me this sounds like you are missing most of the point of Guerdjeff. His incompleteness theorems contradict most of the above paragraphs. And this is the underlying math logic you are referring to. I would suggest a deeper review of what you are using as tools to arrive at your conclusion

When wierwille traveled to Calgary, Alberta in 1953......to take Rev. B.G. Leonard's class on "The Gifts of the Spirit" wierwille accomplished two things: He discovered that B.G. was functioning and thriving on a class-based ministry independent from denominational constraints. No church boards, community or public accountability was needed. A class-based ministry was limitless in potential. As founder and ceo, one could bask in the full sunlight of independence, power and control. The class and biblical material gave the teacher command over an attentive audience. The gifts (manifestations) of the spirit was something not taught in denominational churches. B.G. taught and demonstrated this power in manifestation. IMO....with everything that I know today about wierwille and his atrocities (his malignant narcissism, plagiarism, sexual predation, drunkenness, charmer, cruel, striker, vindictive, etc.)..... I believe that wierwille chose B.G.'s class-based ministry because it greased the machinery of wierwille's malignant narcissism. Full stop. I repeat: IT WAS NOT THE CLASS MATERIAL......IT WAS THE CLASS-BASED SYSTEM that *thrilled* wierwille. If true, then that explains a lot. It explains how wierwille NEVER could fluently speak in tongues. Nor, could wierwille operate the nine manifestations of holy spirit. Looking for a shtick and a way to feed his narcissism and pay the bills. Wierwille talked a good game, but was peddling stolen wares. Thus, at PFAL '77 wierwille (age 60) could NOT duplicate the plagiarist past. This would explain why wierwille shied away from public healing services at the Rock of Ages. It explains why after claiming an 8th corps guy was possessed in the BRC, wierwille could NOT cast out a devil spirit(s). It explains why the Trustees were so empty and void of spiritual power......wierwille was a false teacher, a counterfeit. He was a spiritual hitchhiker.....just like he elucidated in pfal (except he was subconsciously pointed the finger back at himself). Wierwille wanted the class-based system, because it freed him from the Van Wert church. Was his narcissistic personality disorder driving his decisions? Was wierwille looking for an opportunity to be "the big man in town" where he no longer had to report to the church board and community officials? Was the class-based ministry a way of hiding from public view......just like young boy vic hid in the way woods as a child? Or perhaps.....a confluence of opportunity and timing in 1953 where veepee envisioned a class-based structure as a source of steady income for life? Knowing.....that when Old Man Wierwille died, victor would make his way back to the wierwille homestead near New Knoxville, Ohio? Fast-forward to today.......The Way International is a class-based ministry and on their fifth iteration of the foundational class. From it stolen inception and identity, twi stays in the shadows of its revisionist history.....never able to stand in the pure light of God's grace and glory. All the students who ever sat in pfal, or its variants, were deceived by a hireling who cared not for the flock. He was an opportunist.....as are those who followed his pernicious ways and now are perched in the upper seats at "headquarters" who demand your servitude and abundant sharing. What a con!!! Staffers at "hq" will ALWAYS be your spiritual overlords.....if you allow it. They will ALWAYS be 'the teachers.' You on the field will ALWAYS be....... their students. They will ALWAYS have another class in the pipeline for you to take. Stop the insanity!!!!!

Yes I too would prefer a troll free thread so Mike please keep your commentary to the other one as many are not wanting to muck up all the threads on the forum with your viewpoints.

“Scripture interprets itself” is nonsensical – it implies no other agency is needed. Consider some definitions from the internet for interpret, translate and interpreter: Interpret: explain the meaning of information, words, or actions; translate orally or into sign language the words of a person speaking a different language. Translate: express the sense of (words or text) in another language; to express in more comprehensible terms: EXPLAIN, INTERPRET. An interpreter is responsible for facilitating communication between different language speakers by translating information from one language to another for easy comprehension. ~ ~ ~ ~ Note in all of the above there is an intermediary or go-between involved - a person who acts as a link between people of different languages. In a sense translators of the ancient biblical manuscripts are bridging the gap between the original languages of Hebrew, Aramaic, Koine Greek and the modern languages of various cultures like English, Spanish, French, etc. I believe the phrase “scripture interprets itself” is something wierwille erroneously bastardized from Bullinger’s works. In Bullinger’s “How to Enjoy the Bible” the idea is expressed along the lines of “these are the keys to interpreting the Bible, paying attention to the verse, context, previous usage, etc.” It’s a given that a human’s cognitive skills are involved rather than expecting inanimate words on a page to do the job. In other words what Bullinger was saying is "To do it properly and logically this is how YOU should interpret the Bible". That's a big difference from the befuddling nonsense that wierwille was teaching