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In order for Undertow to intrepret itself you have to read the entire thing.

69. So much bullshonta.

that depends. if it is running on a small circular track it is likely to be somewhere close to where it started.

Hallelujah In Kuala Lumpur Mogadishu

I find it far easier to start from Titus and Timothy with the written leadership qualities and postulate that examples in living of those qualities would be who would be growing into larger service missions. Big jobs is language I don’t see in the Bible. Candidates for a job is very business related terminology. I do not see the Bible reading “God was up in heaven and said I need the best candidate for the job. Gabriel and Michael took a poll and came up with Jesus in Gods foreknowledge as the most viable candidate. The hiring committee approved and Mary was impregnated” lol This type of thinking really serves as being an enabler of the Superman image with kryptonite in his past. And until you stop being a post-humous enabler of a narcissistic liar in your mind, there is really only one thing that is taking up residence there rent-free that is VP and his legacy. Missing the vastness of the body of Christ for a binding lesser choice. Maybe a big job for you is getting to the root of the source of the truth intended in scripture and freeing yourself from the bondage that limits perspective and growth.

I think you’re on to something lo shonta. The scriptures work themselves. The DVD plays itself The class watches itself The international country franchises itself. And the tithe sends itself in.

Bullshonta has a certain elegance, a richness, and it rolls off the tongue lol. I’ll give it a 2 malakacita rating lol

From PFAL Book page 78: Mike - make this make sense. God can not only speak to man's natural mind he can actually make an @$$ talk to a man in the case of Balaam. This crap is what you idolize? God can only speak to what he is. Hell, I don't even have that limitation because I speak to all kinds of things that aren't what I am. In fact ---- brb --- gonna go speak and preach to the trees.

If you notice, Mike (really TWI does this the best) attributes wierwille's corrupted character to God's perfectly just character, when God is nothing like wierwille. Mike says one author (God) and 40 (or so) "writers" - even though writer and author are basically synanymous, I digress. Mike makes these men sound like conduits, as others have noted. So - on one hand you have wierwille, who gave nobody credit but used their works outright lying that they were his own. So - wierwille DOES NOT credit co-workers and definately does not credit authors that he in fact STOLE from stating the material came to him via revelation....which is why poor mike thinks plaf is God-breathed. On the other hand you have God almighty who credits his co-workers and authors to the end he let's their names remain all throughout the book(s) they authored and he inspired. Now mike will probably choke on his tongute here..but scripture notes we are fellowworkers with God. That God will reward us for EVERY single thing we ever do for him because he is a just God who credits people for their works, and pays accordingly. So - One God who was the source of in-spirit action and 40 or so authors who wrote not only what they were inspired to write, but at times spoke by permission - in the case of Paul in: 1 Corinthians 7:6 But I speak this by permission, and not of commandment.

Normally I’d say someone who makes a crack like that is full of Shonta…but since you snuck it in with sLeeping in tongues - also known as automatic-praying – all reproof and correction will be held in abstinence absentia Abercrombie & Fitch authoritarianism Aleutian Islands Alaska…yeah that’s the ticket…lottery drawing for who gets browbeaten will be held in the Bay of Abeyance in Alaska…what? Why not Virginia? Idaho I’ll Alaska…imagine a GPS system that locates itself…scratch that – I think that’s what it does…but HOW?

Here’s some inescapable logic - if the Bible interprets itself then surely the tithe can pay itself.

Has the leopard changed his spots?

Vicster would have accepted your Grandma's dentures if they had gold in em.

I also notice how Mike can see it that way- but when another thread has actual discussions that address how Charlene was correct and that the Bible does NOT interpret itself, that's when Mike "gets busy" again, and never DIRECTLY addresses anything that refutes his position. He responds with emotion and ad hominem attacks ("dim-witted"), but the actual discussion he ducks. This reminds me of an old saying. "If you have the law on your side, hammer the law. If you have the facts on your side, hammer the facts. If you have neither on your side, hammer the table." We're getting noise but a skipping of substance- and that tells us a great deal.

That it is. God did not make the Bible complex where it takes some guru to intrepret it for us, like wanna be st vic. It's really a matter of opening up the book and reading the words. So why is scripture build-up, as fundies call it, so complex? For example: Does it take a scientist to take a concept and see how it develops through scripture, over time? Or is that more along the lines of basic common sense? May as well adress this too. Wierwilleites like to say that secular history and secular works should be ignored in favor of scripture only. But how then do people with a western way of thinking understand an eastern book? Eastern people think way differently than those from the west who are influenced heavily by Greek and Latin. Greek for example, is especially precise in it's wording and descriptiveness - especially Koine Greek as opposed to Classical Greek. Eastern people tend to see thing pictorially and rely heavily on symbols, and emotion to communicate. (This split carries into Christian circles too with the differences in Eastern Orthodox Churches and Western Churches that spawned from Rome into Europe and beyond.) Example: Jesus telling his disciples to pluck out their eye if it offends them. The emphasis of the figure of speech is on standing your ground and not allowing any offense to God in your life, as much as you are able, even to the point of plucking out an eyeball. Westerners typically tend to not communicate in this manner that was typical amongst middle eastern cultures. Perhaps a western way of expressing the same emphasis would be "Stand your ground against sin no matter the cost!" So, Mike,how in the eff can I understand a book that is from half way around the world, loaded with Hebraic figures of speech, ancient history, etc. if I don't understand these basic tenets?

All of the later writers knew the Old Testament like the back of their hands....kinda gave God a lot more to work with. Did God actually pen the words? No. And he actually allowed various authors to interject what they had tosay from time to time...such as Paul saying he was speaking by permission and not commandment. So --- it is between 35 and 40 authors and God credits them in the works themselves.

Oh sweet, Mikey is patronizing penworks. I’m sure this will go well I think Mikey is the one who may have forgotten the PFAL where VP gets animated and goes on for an hour about how the Word interprets itself in the verse in the context, where it is used before. No shell game can make that disappear. In the positive takeaways from getting away from PFAL, now we no longer have to twist our brains into more positions than the Twister game to try and justify fundamentalism. You see, if there as is there actually is in reality, 40 authors and one muse, as opposed to one author and 40 conduits, all of that pressure in the brain to try and fit square pegs into round holes just dissipates. A secondary effect is you’re less likely to be duped by the well intentioned. No the so called keys are a hoax. Used before is a different author so you cannot force fit things like VPs scriptural scribe acrobatics endeavor to.

Thanks! It seems to me that fundamentalism sets up false expectations on scripture. Original perfection being lost through imperfect beings, for example. I have no doubt God's thoughts are perfect as is everything else about him. However, he is communicating to imperfect beings who are imperfect in most all they do....or perhaps everything. While the original revelation could have been perfect as it was originally given does that eliminate all imperfections possible from an imperfect creation that received the revelation? Does scripture ever explicitly state that scripture was perfect at it's inception and then lost to imperfect creations? Perhaps this is one of the reasons we are told to study to show ourselves approved? Rhetorical questions, but thoughts for consideration just the same. My questions do not cheapen the Bible -- if God's power and perfection can redeem the imperfect then it speaks to God's awesomeness that he was able to do it through a sea of imperfect men and the creation of one perfect man (Jesus Christ) to carry the burdens the imperfect were unable to bear.

Have you ever seen someone get called out for BS and then try to cover their tracks by saying they were only joking? Why does this remind me of that?

Thats nice. I like to believe in the tooth fairy and unicorns. There's a lot of structure and content on these two topics that has led me to believe in their existance. You see how that works? No proof needed, let's ignore history and all secular sources on the subject and then I can bend my entire reality to suit what I think is true.

TWI was and is a cult. Belonging to a cult, be it TWI or any other cult, will not foster sanity. Maybe one of the first things to do would be to chuck their dangerous "law of believing" doctrine in the weeds. They conditioned us to believe there was no safety or sanity outside the "household". It's simply a control tactic they and many other cults employ.