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It's also interesting to see what happened and what did NOT happen. We all know that vpw never went to his congregation and confessed his sins against them. That would have been required after having violated their trust for so many years on so many occasions. Let's suppose, for the sake of argument, that vpw SECRETLY repented- that he said NOTHING to the congregation whom he'd owed many explanations and apologies, to say the least, but that he SECRETLY tried to get right with God Almighty. If he'd done that SECRETLY, he would have changed his heart- and that means he would have changed his ACTIONS. If the heart changes, the actions proceeding from the heart change. If he'd repented SECRETLY, there would have been comments in public teachings about seeking forgiveness from God, on repenting of sins, on stopping wrong actions and replacing them with right actions, and there would have been lots of discussions with him on-grounds here and there about that sort of thing, about how God forgives us and how we should ALL seek God's forgiveness about sins we've committed, about how we should ALL repent and go to God SECRETLY. All of that would have been happening ALL THE TIME. There would be comments in ALL the sermons, and slipping out in most or all of the conversations. If he'd actually repented in his heart, that's what the changes would have been that would have happened in his actions. There was no public repenting, no public discussion of repentance- as if it was a subject much on his mind- no derailing of casual discussions. The notion of repentance hadn't occurred to him until the very end, the final hours - when he actually started obsessing about it. Otherwise, there would have been hundreds of people who heard him say this sort of thing, and there were zero. So, he did not repent in his heart and change his heart- since that would have meant his actions would have changed, and we could have observed THAT very easily. According to Mike, what was vpw talking about in his final months and weeks? Supposedly, his last public teaching was "the Joy of Serving"- which was a teaching-long advertisement for pfal. It said that the finest thing to do was to serve, and the finest service was to serve people pfal, so go do it, and how, outside twi, there were almost no answers for people. Running commercials for product is NOT the same as repenting. https://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/topic/25213-power-for-abundant-living-today™/page/12/#comment-614631

Hardly. Hardly "joy in service." Any one of us, or any believer, should be able to point out significant things and themes in a Bible. But "teaching" is not "service." Teaching is teaching. Or in this case, pushing propaganda. VPW was (supposedly) talking about the joy OF service. I wonder if these teachers were also supposed to clean the place, set out chairs, make the coffee, clean the toilet, etc as well? That would be more "service" than teaching. But really, Mike, the JOY OF SERVICE is in actually helping, doing things, for people. Without the supposed kudos of "teaching" or "look at me" moments. Blessed are the meek and humble, Mike. The ones who just get on quietly doing things in the background. The overlooked ones, the ones who notice something and fix it without making a fuss. The ones who wash dishes, pick things up off the floor, help those who can't walk easily, find food for the hungry, and such like. Please pay attention. Please.

And yet, you reject the testimony of ONE eyewitness, and hold to the conviction that vpw had leveled with God Almighty in his final hours based on the testimony of ZERO eyewitnesses.

You cant confess his sins for him...he owed a public explanation. Honest churches respond in such fashion when their leadership sins against the congregation.

Supposedly, we were told......the filming of pfal was God-ordained from the heavens. Yet, we learn of wierwille's eye-scorching pain from the studio lights during its filming. Since twi did not allow us to ask questions, I thought that the nice folks here at GS could help me with my questions. Thank you in advance. 1) Were there any lighting personnel experts around to give wierwille any technical advice? 2) Was this filming done on the cheap....with rented furniture, wrong lighting, and overburdened scheduling? 3) Wouldn't God tell "the man of God" HOW to best film this long-awaited class WITHOUT MARTYRDOM OF HIS EYE? 4) According to Scripture, Jesus gave HIS LIFE in total payment of mankinds sins....and vp's "martyrdom" was misplaced? More questions keep popping up.......but those are a start. Just seems to me that the cold/ice soothing between sessions SHOULD HAVE ALERTED WIERWILLE THAT SOMETHING WAS WRONG WITH HOW THEY WERE PROCEEDING FORWARD ON THIS FILMING. Like say.......wrong lights? too intense? too much exposure? Wasn't there anyone to ask? Bueller, Bueller? Perhaps, wierwille should have waited until he had a full grasp on the a/v technical matters? But.....if PRIDE was running the show, then by golly consequences were bound to follow. IMO....wierwille was NOT listening to the Lord and PROCEEDED FORWARD WITHOUT HIM. <_< .

121. The class is set up to, not teach you how to serve God, but how to serve Saint Vic and The Way.

Yes! They always are!!! Its so cool.

Yes, in unified teamwork, he and the Father.

And they all work together too in this service. The ministries serving by fighting sex trafficking speak in the churches of the others. The money flows between the one church and the org. People are loosely connected and supportive. They are obviously led astray. What is this idea of a Christian body working together? That can’t happen. It allows money to be given to “designer causes” as opposed to the true cause of giving all your money to “the ministry that taught you the Word”. But wait, I thought the Word interprets itself. I guess unless it involves money, then you need “extra special research” to reconcile Malachi in the OT with a different dispensation we live in today. They need to “take the class” and become enlightened as to the earth shattering research in the collaterals. Then give their lives as a doulos to the Way planting little Way trees throughout their life. One of the two groups is off their rocker, that is for sure.

IMO, the title, The Joy of Serving, was completely subterfuge. Joy is joy. Wanna know what gives me great joy? My grandchildren. Serving in Victor's cult was mostly drudgery. But renaming drudgery as joy may have psyched some people into feeling guilty for not devoting all of their time to selling PFLAP and taking orders from Loy Martindale. No thank you.

BTW, anyone who wants a quick summary of the main points of that entire transcript, it's simple. I said it before: "Serving people is important for Christians. Therefore, master all three levels of PFAL and serve them that. There are no answers outside the Way Ministry." (The end,) My initial response to it was that this was the closing remarks of a man with an overinflated sense of his organization, and an underinflated sense of all Christians outside that organization. "The Joy of Serving" was a commercial for pfal. "You have to serve people something-so serve them the 3 levels of the class, and outside of twi, there's no real answers for people. (The End.)" Since it was hard to find, I thought I'd repost it. Mike insists this was vpw's last public teaching (there's reason to dispute that), and that it's important (and most of us don't take that seriously at all.) It was called "The Joy of Serving."

A poster here had spoken with someone who interacted a lot with vpw in his final weeks and especially his final hours. They passed along how, in the final few hours, vpw searched his memory actively, looking to find SOMETHING he'd done for which God would have disapproved, so that he could identify it, try to address it, and get his healing. He was convinced that he could be completely healed if only he could identify ANYTHING he'd done which would have displeased God. Either the man was acting through the last few hours of his life, or he really couldn't find any wrongdoing in his own life. If he was acting then, he was a fraud even through the final hours and minutes of his life. If he was sincere, then he looked back over decades of plagiarism, rape, molestation, drugging women, simony, displaying pornography to young folk (and occasionally minors), embezzling church funds for his own vices of alcohol and tobacco which actually killed him, and then said "I wonder what I could have done that would have displeased God?" Most of us who love God can usually point to something we've done which would have displeased God, and it would be something a LOT less minor, like not donating to the poor, or showing anger once to someone. Then again, this WAS a man of absolutes. When he discovered he had cancer, he claimed he'd previously never had a sick day in his life and had never taken an aspirin ever in his life. I find that very hard to swallow.

Does anybody besides me find it amusing that a guy that couldn't master himself gave a teaching exhorting people to master his writings?

Wierwille could not have fooled Penn and Teller with his BS. Penn is an agnostic Jew with Libertarian political views and he would have seen the smoke and mirrors of TWI

Yo home slice. I finally got round to reading all your inferences here. I know I commented on this thread long ago, but don't think I read your whole "I found a treasure" line and pursuit of it there. What I do have to say to you is been there, done that, have the f'ing t-shirt. That last teaching the joy of serving was going around during the fog years, and was the foundation of the Corps training during that time. My entire f-ing in-residence Corps training was basically doing exactly f-ing that. Mastering the foundational, intermediate, and advanced classes, along with the collaterals. Letting a lot of things slip through our fingers is horse sh1t. Most of PFAL was ripped off from BG Leonard. RHST, and the INT class basically are JE Stiles trying to help out VP be genuine and manifest when he failed on stage in front of an auditorium and lied about it. (We know this thanks to Elen@ Wh1teside and TWLIL). Mix in some ninja tricks picked up from eastern visitor KC Pillai and you have a real complete hustle session in a package. VP used sleight of hand tactics with unmeaningful verses in the collaterals like "4 Crucified", "The Day JC Died" and other conspiracy theory oriented interpretations of scripture. Then he would chain from that to "If you can't trust them on the least things concerning JC, how can you trust them with the truth of eternal life?". With BS logic he got us to doubt our teenage pastors, and follow the Pied Piper off into New KnoxvilleLand. If it got lost for another 17 years it would be doing humanity a service.

Went out to mow my front yard. Just in the nick of time, I noticed someone's pet pooch "lost" its last meal on my tree lawn. WHEW! Close call. That's kinda how I feel about *Dr.'s* lost teaching. It's best if we see it for the pile of dung it is before we go cluelessly trouncing through it.

Give it up, Mike. It was a second rate Bible class, not some fountain of truth and wisdom. It was rife with inaccuracies. Most of us were too young to realize that, "inept", as you say. You say we didn't learn much "in depth" from the class. Well, here's what we've learned since the days of our innocence... People were raped, robbed, deprived of career opportunities, psychologically maimed, physically disfigured and even killed as a result of their involvement. Now, you want to say they were "innocently harmed". Instead of feeling pride in your dedication to PFAL you should hang your head in shame for continuing to promote such vile dross .

I started my brainwashing in 1973 and had the rare previlege at the time of taking the the film version of the class. Living near HQ, (70 miles,) I spent a lot of Sundays there ane developed friendships there. Keiiids.... I count it a badge of honor to have known The Loy'd Craig when he was still a nice guy!!! Between talking with people who were there and some history thing they had about filming the class, I'll try to reiterate what I remember. (...and I remember someone who talked about it once to a group of us once.) Somewhere a year or three before 1967, someone suggested VeePee film the class. The reasoning offered was it would take the stress off VP as classes were getting more frequent. After a while he decided to do it and they started to save up the money. When VP decided to go with it they sought to rent out studios, lights, cameras, get film, and whatever other nesessities they needed for the shoot. The studio was either in Dayton or Cincinnati, I don't remember which. The company which provided the lights and cameras helped set them up and gave them advice. Most of the film crew work was done by folks like Ermal, Howard, and the other HQ regulars of the time. Because of the expenses of the studio and photo equipment, VP wanted to film the class in two weeks. With all the things that need to be done in such a filming set up as this, two weeks are extraordinary in any book. The photo company objected to the two week sched because of the strong possibility of eye damage. (Also in 1967 I was in the US Air Force practicing the art and science of being a photo technician.) In '67, color movie film would have had an ASA rating of 10 to 64. For those who don't know ASA film speeds, that means the film was as slow as a turtle and needed incredible amounts of light to properly expose the the film. For those who have seen the film or video versions of the class, that means the man at the desk was under 5 to 7 500 watt klieg lights for several hours a day for two weeks. Of course these lights generated a lot of heat too. So, to answer your questions; 1) Were there any lighting personnel experts around to give wierwille any technical advice? Yes, they warned what could happen and were ignored by VP. 2) Was this filming done on the cheap....with rented furniture, wrong lighting, and overburdened scheduling? The story I heard was the furnishing were from VP's own orific..., er, office. The lighting was the only thing available at the time and was necessary for the film. The photo company recommended at least a three week sched or even longer. On the cheap, the filming crew were then BOT's, future BOTs, and other HQ staff. 3) Wouldn't God tell "the man of God" HOW to best film this long-awaited class WITHOUT MARTYRDOM OF HIS EYE? It does seem the Bible is full of such incidents, doesn't it. VP gambled on doing it cheap and it cost him not only his eyes, but eventually his life

Yeah......he went from "The Teacher" to "The man of God (of the universe)" to "Our father in the Word." Is there a higher title that twi, and splinter groups, have bestowed upon him in death? If wierwille's classes, quotes and one-liners are the CONSTANT SOURCE of reference, solace and strength..... then, in essence, isn't wierwille "Their mediator" of sorts? Sounds like straight-up idolatry to me. Wierwille made blunders in pfal-filming and his handlers cover for him. When others made mistakes, confrontation moved in front-and-center to point out the error for all to see. The double standard hypocrisy was astounding!!

Don't forget, this is a guy who claimed he could just "reach up in Daddy's cookie jar" and God would tell him someone's spiritual orientation...black hearts and white hearts....just like that....but he couldn't ask why the lights were so irritating?????...not buying it... the guy was a fraud.

It was a scam...plain and simple...including the schtick about how "I gave my eye for you kids!"....Boo hoo.