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When was wierwille "in fellowship?" When was wierwille's "new man nature" evident? For instance, was wierwille in fellowship with God when he shut down his LIVE TEACHINGS at pfal '77 and had his desk brought out so that he could sit and read scripture verses while he sipped his Drambuie? Was wierwille's new man nature in play when he tweaked Rev. Oral Robert's teaching on "The Fourth Man" and pawned it off as "The Red Thread?" Even in his "finest moments"...... (cough, cough) the charlatan wierwille was play-acting the part of a spiritual man of God. He was a serial plagiarist who had rarily a thought, an idea, or a teaching that he could absolutely call his own. He fooled LOTS of people along the way, but did you ever notice that it was those closest to him.....valets, bodyguards, pilots, research men, etc....abandoned him even BEFORE he retired in 1982? Wierwille certainly didn't allow "on-again / off-again" men around him. He demanded commitment, focus and even near perfection. How often did some of us corps see wierwille berate a corps person for the simplest of mistakes? Wierwille was a chain-smoking drunkard, an unforgiving taskmaster, a bully to even the weakest corps member, a striker when irritated, a life-long misogynist and sexual predator. Anyone who CONTINUES TO THIS DAY to give wierwille a pass is a devoted sycophant and possibly a hidden narcissist himself to garner self-referential attention. Peace.

Focus on his mobster ways and ties to the underworld and Al Capone was a failure. Focus on the 2,200 people per day who were served by his soup kitchen and he was a success.

What wierwille REALLY WAS...... was a man of the flesh. He was a deceiver, a con man... play-acting the role of "a spiritual man." In fact, since his narcissism knew no bounds.... wierwille KEPT INCREASING his "greatness." In his skinny-tie filming of the 1967 pfal class, wierwille dubbed himself as "The Teacher." Just write The Teacher, Box 328, New Knoxville, Ohio 45871. By the mid-70s, his inner circle and enablers kept referring to him as "The Man of God" (a title that vpw fully encouraged and embraced). Then, by the early 80's, he laid claim to the title "Our Father in the Word" (of which, I guess teaching pfal = fathering people in 'the Word'). And lastly, to transcend all other labels, Chris Geer pegged the summit of wierwille's legacy as "A Patriarch" ( the father and ruler of a family or tribe). YET, wierwille's life was befitting to NONE of those titles. The Book of Timothy chapter 3 specifically outlines for us the office of a bishop, an overseer. What was wierwille's report card on THIS LIST OF REQUIREMENTS? Dismal to non-existent. He was not prepared in all points [blameless], nor vigilant, nor sober of sound thinking, not patient, but a striker, a brawler and contentious. Wierwille was puffed up with pride as he looked down his nose at others. He fell into reproach and snares of the devil. Need I go on? Many were deceived by his stage-presence. And, wierwille was well-aware of this deception.... that's why he rarely let his mask slip. But when it did slip, one caught a glimpse of a vindictive, mean man.

Right. I was frequently told, "You should be thankful to Doctor Wierwille for teaching you tha werd." It's a form of gaslighting. It's a wicked thing to say. But it was only important to THEM that I take "the class." I never wanted to take it. I always politely declined and changed the subject. (I was already used to deflecting the pressure from my aunt to join "the business.") IIRC they thought they would receive extra "heavenly rewards" for everyone they signed up. I thought: Now, that's a dandy. "kuala lumpur mogadishu carne asada." Interpretation: I'm still waiting for that "thank you."

uhh....he's going through his files....

Accidental? I'm not quite sure how you derived that from my post. I would say that the forming of these splinter groups is methodical...... ie these corps saw an opportunity to break away at some point and took actionable steps to incrementally break from twi. In the 1980's, those corps men (broadly speaking) were mostly limb and region guys. They already had a listing of names, phone numbers and addresses in their files. I know that because I certainly had access to this information at the Oklahoma Limb. With strategic planning and incremental steps, it wouldn't be a "leap of faith" for people to stop their affiliation with mothercult-twi and go local. Heck, even in the church denominations, we see this shifting from time to time. People will follow someone they trust rather than brand name only. .

At Rome City we had pizza with chicken liver toppings...from the very chickens we killed! this belongs in a movie Silence of the Chickens

There's an old joke in there about eating some local honey but, since it's off-color, I probably shouldn't go there.

Zero. Do I win a prize?

This is quotable. the way international really does teach people to have selective vision...I know I had a healthy dose.

Attention all Grease Spotters : I thought the intention behind my post ( here ) was expressed in crystal clarity: exposing Mike’s gobbledygook, delusions and lies in one of his posts ( here ) ~ ~ ~ ~ From a quick online search: To expose is to make something visible by uncovering it – for example "at low tide the sands are exposed"; similar words : unravel, reveal, uncover, lay bare, leave unprotected, reveal the true, objectionable nature of (someone or something) as in "he has been exposed as a liar and a traitor" Mike’s response is interesting. He views my post as another gotcha game – he said, You were hoping I'd entangle my self in T-Bones web above, even though I've handled those points lots of times in the past 20 years. Maybe I should get myself edjumicated on the Advanced Search engine here and retrieve my old answers? No, I want to go in different directions. end of quoting Mike ~ ~ ~ ~ From a quick online search: To entangle is to cause to become twisted together with or caught in - "fish attempt to swim through the mesh and become entangled"; SIMILAR words: intertwine, entwine, tangle, intertwist, twist, ravel, snarl, involve (someone) in difficulties or complicated circumstances from which it is difficult to escape - "the case of murder in which she had found herself so painfully entangled" In Mike’s response there is a denial of defending wierwille and an attempt to redirect the conversation. If this were in a court of law and Mike has been charged with defending to the hilt wierwille’s sociopathic behavior – what Mike does is avoid the courtroom altogether for fear of getting caught in his own gobbledygook, delusions and lies. Basically he would be entangling himself in his own web of deceit. And just for the record – Mike has never “handled those points lots of times in the past 20 years” to the satisfaction of anyone but his own imagination.

You are right about “return” and “second coming” not being in scripture although Heb 9:28 comes close when it says “[Christ] will appear a second time." The reason I asked for a Bible verse for the “absent Christ” is because of the context of my post. It’s on page 77. I had listed the ways in which you talked about the Bible in your recent posts, so at the end I asked, within that context, if this particular phrase was in the Bible. I’ll have to learn how to list posts one under each other and then write a reply to them. I should have included your post about authority in there as well.