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Classes and twi-programs were trappings, for sure..... but so was the repetitive nature of attending Sunday Teaching Services. Back in the day at headquarters, we often had Sunday morning fellowships in the BRC or under the apple trees (on nice summer days).... only to turn around and throw on a suit for Sunday Night 5pm. Apparently, as time marched on, the 5pm Service was moved to 3pm..... to accommodate trustees and emeritus going to bed earlier....er, for travel time extended to out-of-town guests. Sunday Teaching Reading Service has evolved because every "teacher" became so brain-dead boring with no exciting input or examples from their own lives. No personal testimonies of God-power in action. Besides, Rosalie didn't trust said teacher from going off-script and the pfal-messaging got garbled. So, reading was just going to have to suffice. The Monotony was Killing Me The butt-brigade ushers made sure that young corps had their butts in front row seats 10 minutes before meetings/sts started.... while they sat near exits and got up and down. Of course, emeritus corps and faithful old timers got choice seating and sat near the back row Each Sunday.... going thru the motions, sleepwalking thru life. No one WANTS to "live life" like that.... unless you're a dead-head cultist. It just ain't right. It's a mental trap with lethargic implications. It sets a pattern in your brain cells of low expectations and a God that has no power. But a staffer must comply, because someone has got to sit in those seats. God knows, most who've trodden this path for 5-15 years feel like the siren has gone off and one is led to the train station shipped off to cult camps. Why not have personal testimonies at STS??.... because there are NO vivid, personal testimonies. It's just dead-pan Jan reading her approved "teaching." Week after week, the monotony drones on. Break free from this trapping.... and spend a few Sundays at the nearby lake.

Oftentimes, we hear when twi-followers finally decide to exit TWI..... they seek out a splinter group. Seemingly, deep down they must still cling to the twi-mantra that victor paul wierwille was chosen by God to lead them to the "rightly-divided Word" or some equivalent of the same. Clearly, the "truth of pfal" is sound [they think].... it's just that LCM, Rosalie and Donna screwed it all up. Pick any one of them as the *fall guy*...... but NOT wierwille. So, off they go to a splinter group... lulled into another loop around the block. How long will they stay in this cycle? Depends. Does it touch all the right buttons of nostalgia for those "good ole days?" Do they feel accepted and needed? Are they again (cough, cough) an intricate part of moving God's Word [pfal] to others? For some.... do they keep questioning and looking diligently for answers? Or, do they settle into a "cozy" splinter group that, at first, welcomes them with open arms and doesn't ask for donations [yet]? If they keep asking the hard questions.... this splinter group, too, will not be filling their need. But if they settle in and stop questioning the deeper questions like, "Why did twi collapse so quickly? Why was lcm such an ego-driven maniac.... the one whom wierwille chose to be the 2nd president of twi? Why did wierwille teach that cancer is a devil spirit and later.... die of cancer? Why didn't wierwille get healed if he was "God's chosen" who taught solid principles of health and prosperity? Why did the trustees lie saying 'wierwille died of a broken heart?' Etc. etc. ??" When the door to questioning begins.....THEN can one find answers. GreaseSpot Cafe offers the first, clear vision that twi-followers are caught in a trap. No other group offers this direct approach. Even though back in the 80's, Lynn's group, CES/STFI, offered up its list that diverged from twi.... it only went so far. At no time, did it delve into wierwille's questionable claims and mystique of "the man of God." And, of course.... Geer offered NOTHING but a posthumous accounting of wierwille's "greatness" and took it to levels of franchising classes. A legion of other splinters, too, chose to hang onto wierwille's coattails and ride the rails to the bank. But GSC, the successor of Waydale, offers another way for twi-followers to GET OUT OF THIS TRAP. With healthy discussions and vigorous debate....GSC allows participants to engage in open discussions. No questions are off-limits [except politics]. Neither twi nor its splinter groups allow for open, full-throated discussions in the public arena. Why the censorship? What are they protecting? We saw ALL OF THIS back in 1986 when the trustees prohibited anyone from reading John Schoenheit's research paper on "Adultery." Many corps leaders were fired and/or shunned for even reading it. Why was twi so afraid of uncovering the biblical truths regarding adultery? Any guesses? LOL Fast forward to 2023.... and the censorship regarding questions about wierwille remain. But not here..... not at GSC. .

124. wierwille challenges the authority of God “…it would be a violation of God’s sovereignty to suppose his creative power was limited by available means or in any way hostage to principles external to it.” Hugh J. McCann, The God Beyond Time, essay in Philosophy of Religion An Anthology 7th Edition . What comes to mind is wierwille’s marketing of the law of believing, also known as magical thinking and omnipotence of thought. wierwille was always critical of psychology and would belittle the work of Freud by saying things like “psychiatry was born in a séance”. However, in the academic world it’s been said of Sigmund Freud : Freud’s psychoanalysis can contribute a great deal to the elucidation of religious phenomena…The omnipotence of thoughts, a mechanism particularly favored by obsessive-compulsives, was recruited in Totem and Taboo (1913) to explain animism and religion. The omnipotence of thoughts is the unconscious presupposition that the wish is equivalent to the deed and that wishing can effect, independently of any action, changes in one’s environment. Freud believed that in the animistic-magical stage people ascribe omnipotence to themselves, while in the religious stage they transfer it to a deity and yet retain the idea that they can influence that deity through prayer and ritual according to their wishes. From Sigmund Freud article by Edwin Ruthven Wallace IV , psychiatrist, neuropsychiatrist, and psychotherapist, pages 474, 475 of Baker Encyclopedia of Psychology and Counseling, editors David Benner & Peter Hill

Was this thread started to start an argument or discussion? Boloshevik was adding what he thought, and I'm not defending his post, but that he can post. like wow... chill out

Deep into the first video and looking forward to getting into the one on JWs. As a survivor of both groups, I'm really having fun with it.

I suppose the answer is somewhat like a recipe, a little of this, a little of that, a whole bunch of something else...and everybody has their own recipe they tend to prefer. I was never in the category of these guys or even anywhere close. I was just your basic Joe Believer kind of guy. Still, I can think of reasons I hesitated to speak out when I could have or should have. I had extended family in the ministry. I was the first in my family to become involved and brought these other people in with me. How could I tell them I might have done a horrible thing by bringing them in? Or, even, should I be the one to tell them? If I got thrown out of the little program I was in, how would it reflect on them? How would other believers treat them if they became vocal, too? And, what if they rejected what I told them? They're family. That part doesn't change. So, little by little, I drifted quietly out of sight. Was it right? Was it wrong? I don't know, but that's what I did. Now, if these decisions weighed so heavily on me, how much more difficult must it have been for these guys who were in visible positions of leadership? We can guess about their reasons, I suppose, but, we'll never really know unless they choose to tell us. The cafe is open 24/7. They're always welcome to come in and grab a seat. First cup is on the house.

Thinking back through my own experiences sometimes I experienced shock like in an auto accident or criminal incident. My mind froze up and so things I saw somehow would not register to question later. Bizarre things. A lot of times because I am not a fast processor with emotional intelligence I would just get run over and then like 2 months later I would process it and get upset. Until GSC came along all of this had to be mostly processed alone, or in whispered talks with the spouse, or in guarded tones around other Corps because you never know who is going to write a letter to the board to accuse you of something. All of that happened around us with people trying to lovingly correct upward with scripture and then getting axed. For anyone with org climbing aspirations like so many of these people have, all of that leads to more and more toxicity and dishonesty. They grow to the point they feel that protecting their position in the hierarchy is protecting “the ministry” so any Machiavellian action is easily justified. Of the 3 you named I knew 2 of them and they also displayed snake like Machiavellian behavior towards others and some dishonesty and targeting others to preserve themselves. They were not whistle blowers I know people whose lives were deleteriously impacted from both of them. I would say that all 5 of your reasons or a combination of them probably came into play for many leaders. At least on a subconscious level. I didn’t do the sex scandal bs activity so maybe it was more hidden to me - I only heard rumors. I will say that my own Christian parents are a better example than these clowns in this category. I also would say that the reputation of the BOD for excommunication precedes them and causes people to not mentally process things but just leave them sit there. So evil goes unchecked within the org. It’s only outside sources like here at GSC that you get the unfiltered truth on these matters. The whitewash society isn’t giving you any of it.

Okay.... since this thread addresses questions, I thought I'd ask another. This question has surfaced many times, and it came up in the thread A Series of Purges .... but I still am trying to unearth more understanding. Why was there such a dearth of ex-leaders NOT WILLING to come forward and EXPOSE TWI'S TRAPPINGS? Except for Ralph D., Paul Mosqued@ and Alan Lich-t {some what] ...... why so few? Was it because..... There was money to be made by riding the same rails [doctrine]? Men stayed silent, because they wanted to chum with their buddies and not rock the boat? Many of these men were compromised in sex scandals of their own and kept their heads down? Life moves on quickly.... and most just wanted to press forward, not look back? Many were simply hirelings who didn't really concern themselves with the "flock of the sheep?" A combination of two or more from above? None of the above? Thanks.

Of course, I was no longer the 20-year old transitioning thru college and life's challenges being pulled in several directions.... and taking the pfal class, to boot. Fast forward to 1999..... with Waydale/GSC backing, the sparks were flying with all the questions that surfaced.

When I exited twi in 1998, one of the first things I did was resolve to hold no sign of guilt. Why should I hold any guilt over my own head and heart? After all, THEY were the deceivers, the hucksters, the opportunists living off my sacrifice to serve twi. Yet, guilt is one of their many weapons. With incremental steps, each class gives them, they think, more access to govern our decisions and life. Remember.....having finished the advanced class, twi sent out a form letter stating to the grad that, now, he/she 'owed his life to the ministry.' One is quickly able to put twi's leadership at arms-length from any more encroachment the minute the weapon of guilt is removed!! With luminous clarity and serenity, one begins to see that twi holds NO POWER over you unless you allow it. Certainly, untangling this whole mess is a process.... but, for me, the beginning step was removing this guilt-weapon from further attacks on my conscience. I refused to think otherwise. Immediately, I began trashing wierwille's [sob-fest] corps letters that claimed "....you're corps, act like it. Stand with me." Then, I began dumping my Way Magazines....all of them, except one where I wrote an article on "Spiritual Integrity" [how appropriate, eh?]. Within days, I was going thru my correspondence files and dumping those. Then, after consultation with my wife.... we agreed that the collateral books were of no use and discarded them. Six months later, Paul All*n had his run-in with martindale and left twi. Less than two months later, April 1999... he had Waydale up and running. Explosions of eye-witness accounts started hitting the internet. Hundreds of posters came onboard to join the open discussions. It was easy to discern that there was this pent-up frustration and anger sitting out there just waiting for someone to strike the match. And, Paul was just the man to do it. He was computer savvy and devoted nearly 18-hours per day to monitor the site. His mission was to seek and destroy The Way and Martindale......hence, Waydale. Twi was caught flat-footed and had no idea how to stop this creation that they COULD NOT control. I would stay up till 2-3am, because there was generally 10-15 people still posting away. It was so electrifying that I didn't want to sleep. Questions sought were questions answered.... promptly. Soon, there was a private messaging and a private chatroom. Holy Moley. Who could sleep will all this activity going on? I couldn't wait to get off work.... to come home and catch up on the threads. Seemingly, after a few years [4-6].... many posters dropped off after lengthy post counts. Some came to vent, some to ask questions, some to be wierwille-apologists.... which all made for lively discussions. And, after Paul and Fern won their out-of-court settlement with twi, the baton was taken up by GreaseSpot Cafe. I remember the thread where we were given the chance to name the new website. Lastly, here we are.... nearly 24 years later and going strong. Reaching out with warnings to the hearts and minds of others. Twi has no choice but to "monitor this website and keep their eyes on the enemy." Rosalie, bless her heart, was so computer-illiterate that she had Linder print out copies of our threads and placed on her desk. And, you can be assured that many of us are on their "blacklist." I wear it with honor. All of this.... because we dared to ask questions that they refused to answer and recompense that they would not deliver. .

YES!

Charity.... your post is tremendous but also saddening. For 30 years, you were alienated from a fulfilling spiritual life, from walking with your lord and savior, because of twi's jaded doctrine. Others have come forward to testify of the same. Twi's destructive doctrine compels twi-followers to make wierwille/twi the mediator between God and man. Twisted. When the trumpet of the Lord shall sound, and time shall be no more..... lots of folks are going to be in for a rude awakening. None more than those who'd served twi's self-indulging and idolatrous agenda.

I will posit that for a person to break the chains of waybrain in their lives, they will need to look at the bible with new eyes, no longer from the framework of parsing the meanings of greek or aramaic words, no longer from the framework of fundamentalist private interpretation (or even Wierwille's interpretation) of what might be God's true meaning.

Frankly, as chockfull's comment suggests, Wierwille's fraudulent take on Christian community, which is really the bottom line of the Way Corps(e), transformed participants and those said participants successfully proselytized into something other than those people's true selves.

The generally accepted elements of emotional intelligence are: 1. Self Awareness 2. Awareness of Others TWI systematized doctrinal error in scriptures to erode away strength in each of those areas crucial for interaction and survival in the real world. Self Awareness - any kind of cogniscence of your own moral barometer is erased by “righteousness” and “believing” Awareness of Others - an isolationist view is taught and lived - a view where not only all other religions are devil possessed (extreme superstition) but so are all the heads of the Christian denominations and the Popes. Some of this is hidden until the Adv Class where people have 3 yrs of immersion into cult doctrine. As a result extreme obedience and conformity is demanded and expected unquestioned. This process like the Stanford prison experiment transforms people into frames of thinking rather quickly and isolated them in to a small society that is very controlling. Time is consumed with multiple meetings and outreach and undershepherding and the follower is swallowed up quickly in the process. Each stage leads to the next higher level commitment. True Christianity is free and grassroots. Some churches seem closer to those roots others drift more towards other interests like prosperity gospel. TWI is 100 percent it’s own isolated cult never interacting with the other 99.9999 % of Christianity. In direct contrast to this Jesus Christ spoke of believing in him that “my yoke is easy and my burden is light”. Christ bore the heavy burden and yoke of the law and judgement and gave his life so we don’t have to carry it. Don’t take it back on your own back as some kind of martyr and live in chains.

I saw this bumper sticker today: "A closed mind is a wonderful thing to lose."

Exactly right. The more I questioned twi's doctrine.... the more inaccuracies I found. Then, my understanding and relationship with Jesus Christ was restored fully and completely.

I left twi over 30 years ago and have not been comfortable in any church all that time. My mind kept judging their doctrine no matter how loving and accepting the people were. When I began to spend time on GSC, beginning with the Absent Christ thread, I began to see how much of twi's doctrine on the holy spirit field, the law of believing and the "word takes the place of the absent Christ" was inaccurate and had crippled my walk with Christ. It's only been four months and now I've started to fellowship with Christians in a church where I feel at home. A lot of what I'm seeing there lines up with what I've learned on GSC. The important point to realize is that for me, I needed to begin having fellowship with Christ before I could fellowship with others who belong in his body outside of twi. What helped me to connect with my Lord was posting on GSC so the believers there could show from scripture how it is God's will that we have fellowship with Christ. Once I understood that and I could open the door to receiving him, he went from being someone I knew about in my head to being someone alive in my life. I still read and send posts on GSC so I can continue learning and maybe help others as I've been helped.

Asking questions, free from censorship..... is EMPOWERING. When the mind is free from twi-censorship.... questions flow freely. In my opinion, one begins to realize how many more questions he/she has pent up inside the crevices of this "renewed mind." LOL. A healthy mind is a questioning mind. Did wierwille and company really think that we would "stay on the pfal-farm" a lifetime.... repeating its mantra as an invocation to this mythical, pfal-god? How insane is THAT? Only a narcissist could ever imagine concluding such a scenario for his followers. Same goes for all of their "advanced" study classes. Most all of these classes have been redone or tweaked over the years and "The Way Tree" class was completely discarded. Thank you Johnnie Townsend for that class... NOT. As so many posters have said.... such drumbeating of repetition is insanity. Some question wierwille/twi only to a certain point.... and then stop. That's NOT empowering, that's not freedom. They are STILL tethered to certain aspects of twi's conditioning. It doesn't matter if they exit twi or not.... they are still way-brained by indoctrination. Asking questions, free from censorship..... is EMPOWERING. Try it. You'll like it.

Bolshevik, I'm going to try to be polite here: You derail threads with a skill that puts Mike to shame by trying to reduce everything to definitions that YOU accept, many of which have NOTHING to do with how the rest of the world defines those terms. It is exhausting and has derailed EVERY SINGLE conversation you and I have had. I'm not putting up with it again. "Rebuild all of society" to escape that I just wrote? That's absurd. And I will not have this thread derailed before it's even had a chance to start just because you aqre determined to make every thread about your inability to draw a straight line from one concept to the next. Enough. If you don't understand the points being raised, sit back and enjoy the conversation among those of us who do. Somebody had to say it.

"It's like you're always stuck in second gear." So much of that describes my own experience, it's uncanny. No phone, no TV, no newspaper, no internet and on and on and on. I remember when everyone at my outside job was buzzing about some new TV show called Saturday Night Live. How do you tell people you don't even have a TV and then turn around to pitch them on Power For Abundant Living? Those were the days, though, weren't they, Edith? edit: After one of those grueling 5AM to midnight days, the only thing on your mind was the chance of getting another 5 hrs. sleep.