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Yeah....where have we heard THAT before? "We (YOU) have not yet really graduated to that level yet".... same ole song that wierwille played regarding "not spiritual enough to handle it." Lock box, remember? Or a number of other examples where you've got to reach spiritual maturity to see it... garbage. Or geer, with his passing the poop manuscript.... "the way corps just haven't risen up to the level that dr. wierwille set for them." Same garbage, different trash can. We see this worn-out canard played over and over again to illicit guilt and deception. The false teachers run on the same rails because they are lazy, brain-dead hucksters. Their trappings vary little. And, Mike is one of their sycophants.

How Not to Deal with Mike Note to self: Don't get on the hamster wheel. Note to self: Okay, I got on it again but at least this time my head didn't feel like it was going to explode. All right, I won't get on the hamster wheel again. Note to self: Okay, okay, I got on it again but only because he must stop working so hard on his believing to get it to become real believing. Man, it's like he's carrying the weight of the world on his shoulders . I was just trying to help. All right, I won't get on the hamster wheel again. Note to self: Destroy the da@mn hamster wheel! So the next time I'm tempted to spend an hour of my time typing out a reply, I'll climb through some twisty tunnels, eat some hamster pellets and sleep in my nice red hide away instead. Moral of story: When Mike starts out by saying he wants feedback about some wacko theory of his which you know he's not going to accept but instead push vp and pfal - put on the headphones and blast away with Don't be Fooled Again !

You are so right, Oldskool. I was NOT speaking in tongues like a house of fire. I did NOT have all twi's head knowledge of the 16 keys to walking by the spirit. I was NOT "fully instructed" (cough, cough) to the point of spiritual maturity. In fact, I hadn't even heard of twi let alone taken their pfal class. But I was born again and in the beginning stages of learning about my heavenly Father. Some of the most incredible God-moments in my life were when I was, seemingly, going about my way and just living life. In the process of whole-hearted living, God gave me glimpses of His power and wonder. I rarely speak of them here at GSC, because I hold to the scripture verses that tell us to be humble and silent on these things.... else people start comparing their experiences with mine. Furthermore, we are not to be boastful of how God intervenes in our lives. My main desire here at GSC is to help others get out of the trap of wierwille's doctrine. There is such a huge world out there. And, to be confined into a box is no way to live.

Yep... it's good to have a "Dr." in-house to raise credibility standards for the cult. LOL

But you ARE putting it on God. Isn't that basically what you suggested when starting this thread?! You spoke about the possibility of God's budget of miracles being scarce, then wrote: "Now another feature of this theory or hunch of mine is that the budget not only applies to the “amount” of an intervention from the spiritual to the physical, it ALSO implies a TIME BUDGET as well." Are you now walking it back and saying lack of results when we believe is our doing?

Years ago, when we were pointing out these Back Door Mortgages.... I found out thru a few friends that Rev. Pa*l G!les in Tampa had a mortgage where the in-laws had purchased the home. They were making payments to the in-law parents. Same thing was happening in Indianapolis with Rev. J0n Ry@n.... same gig. So, twi had this NO DEBT POLICY and twi-clergy had found a work-around system to bypass the mandate. Slick, sick deception.... by clergymen. The hypocrisy stinks throughout twi. It's the little guy who obeys the rules that gets crushed. He dutifully obeys thinking that God's blessings are just around the corner so he waits...and waits...and waits. Some of the clergymen don't wait, they know how the game is played.... *Don't Get Caught.* The no debt policy was a trap of seismic proportions.

Oh any time you see my little green faced smiley guy, rest assured that I am being a smart donkey.

It didn't work for Mike either, but the difference you can humbly admit wierwilles doctrines failed where Mike is still trying to figure out what we t wrong. Wierwilles version of Christianity is so very formulaic...so trying to figure out what went wrong one has to carefully check each component of the formula. Of course the main component that gets blamed is us...those who made the mistake of following a false prophet. The correct way to rebound from failure in such matters is turn to God with a humble heart, ask and you shall receive, knock and it shall be opened.

Anybody who buys into the law of believing should ask themselves is this something the devil would want everyone to know? Then why is it part of pop culture, rebranded as the secret or the law of attraction?

Sounds like you ran into the same issues I had with the law of believing. Tithing/ABS doesnt work the manner in which the way international teaches no more than the law of believing. When the law of believing failed in my life it was obvious who's fault it was according to TWI: Mine. They most always blame the person doing what they teach for not doing it good enough...or whatever the excuse Du' Juor is. I mean you can see Mike running the same circles here on GSC. Its always that we dont get it, or we missed it, or whatever...never question the doctrine....wierwille said it works so the words of a liar rule the day for these guys.

Did you check to see if God promised a Saturday check from a temp job? Obviously, he didn't, because you did everything else right. The numbers, the paint, the gloves... Got to get your needs aligned with your wants and find out if God promised that alignment before you believe for it. And the ABS hedge of protection only works if you are manifesting believing kinds of faith while wearing clown shoes. See? It's axiomatic. Isn't that just tremendous! Got to MAKE it FIT

You're not clinging to the law of believing as Jesus stated it? You're clinging to how Saint Vic interpreted it. There's a distinction. Jesus taught about faith.

To me, it sounds like Mike has nothing, either experience or data or scriptures, on which to base any claim of "scarcity of miracles."

Let's be clear. Im havent experienced a scarcity of miracles. That sounds like your experiences.

I think the discussion itself of the topic is the answer. If your ego is puffed up to the point you are doing an analysis of Gods job in how many and where the “miracles” are performed then you yourself are the reason. What do you consider a miracle? There’s another thing. There are the major accounts in the Bible. And there is life. If you get into static analysis on “is this sunrise a miracle?” “is the birth of my second child a miracle?” “is this answer to prayer a miracle?” then you will end up at the same Mike based level of frustration for your entire life. ”mental assent” is an overblown concept. It is basically saying I agree in concept but not to the point where I will take any action or have any skin in the game. That certainly is not the case for believers experiencing delayed answers to prayers or not getting an answer or grinding to make something happen by way of action. ”mental assent” when arseholes use it describing something other than their own selves is a form of gaslighting. It is victim blaming. It is being a zero in emotional intelligence. It is anti Christ activity

I can confirm that the miraculous in my life follows this pattern. I can recall an audible voice saving me from a motorcycle accident. I actually laid a bike down and was looking for whoever yelled at me and couldn’t find a soul in any direction besides the large truck running the stop sign. I didn’t see any reason why I deserved this beyond the normal fatal accidents of this kind everywhere. That was pre TWI. Post new birth. I had SIT but didn’t do it regularly - had not much for a couple years after the initial experience. I had no exposure to the law of believing or the greatest secret in the world today or the great principle. I guess if I had to try and logically break it down I would wonder why God doesn’t yell at everyone prior to a crash or an angel or whatever. Or wonder if there was a prairie dog or a mole hiding that screamed at me like Balaams foot. I still can’t explain it other than to say that maybe God being just and righteous finds different ways to put his thumb on a scale or something. I know the depth of that explanation is astounding lol. But I truly have an aspect of my faith that is very childlike.

Lots of people have come forth and claimed the GSC has helped them, over the years. So far, we've had a few people disagree with the GSC and laud vpw to the sky, but only one person seems to have claimed the GSC has been "harmful" to them, and that they see no benefit in it. Well, as to "no benefit", they're definitely in the minority. Again, if there's no perceived value in posting somewhere, why post there?

I knew the devil could play the fiddle, but I was completely unaware he did stand-up comedy, as well.

No problem at all – I said that for the benefit of those who like to use diversionary tactics (like referencing a court of law) as a distraction to avoid discussing the hypocrisy of wierwille and LCM. We cool

Hi OldSkool, https://thewayinternational.com/operating-the-gift-of-holy-spirit/ According to the above website, Twi teaches that "the nine manifestations of holy spirit operate under a "basic" principle and this "great" principle, according to them, operates in this manner, "God, Who is Spirit, teaches His creation in you, which is now your spirit. Your spirit teaches your mind. Then your spiritual power becomes manifested in the senses realm as you act or as you speak out." (Underlining is mine.) Their "great principle" is not only inaccurate and harmful, it is full of pride as you spoke about in your post. According to James 4:6 and 1 Peter 5:5, the opposite of God resisting the proud is that God gives grace to the humble and being humble is to accept that God's miracles are according to His ways and purposes. Mary did not pray or believe for a miracle that she would become pregnant with a son who according to Luke 1:32,33 "32 ...shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: 33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end." But God had a purpose in mind and knew Mary was humble as stated in verse 38 "And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word." God knows our hearts and just as with Mary and OldSkool's dog Bella, some miracles are God acting in power to fulfill His purposes without any human interaction. In other words, there was a purpose for both these miracles and that's why God did them. Awesome sharing OldSkool!