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Whenever I've taught on anything, that's always been my goal- that others would start there and take it further. I think of Sir Isaac Newton, who claimed he saw so far by "Standing on the shoulders of giants," that is, the scientists who came before.

We had one or two posters who were 2nd generation vpw drones, whose parents drilled them exclusively on twi/vpw materials, which was obvious because they talked like that's all they knew. According to one, the phrase "you can only go as far as you've been taught" was correct. When he was asked about innovations and so on and their origin, he said that ALL inventions either came from God Almighty or the devil. (I mentioned he was doing a disservice to people who spent decades of their lives working in their fields to make incremental improvements.)

Its interesting, and perhaps Im a bit idealistic or influenced by too many kung fu movies, but isn't the hallmark of a capable teacher is that the student eventuall surpasses the teacher?

What you actually seem to be doing is constructing MYTH. There is no rational or biblical basis for either question as I see it. I commend your imagination but not your communications skills or biblical understanding or rational analysis skills, or even your self-awareness. The only basis for what you propose is what you conjure between your ears. If you (or any other reader on this thread were to) want to understand the history and role of MYTH over the course of humankind's dominion over the earth, I recommend A Short History of Myth by Karen Armstrong. Ms Armstrong is a former Catholic nun and writes exquisitely about human understanding of God (and gods) and spiritual ideas through the millennia. In a prologue to A Short History..., "Myths are universal and timeless stories that reflect and shape our lives--they explore our desires, our fears, our longings, and provide narratives that remind us what it means to be human." Myth predates and co-exists with Hebrew, Islam, and Christian understanding of life. My life experience and travels (abroad) exposed me to Catholic traditions which were adopted by various local communities and incorporated into church practice by Catholic practitioners.

So in your imaginations you have God and Satan on budgets. I'm not trying to be disrespectful here, but it's a fantasy Mike. The concept doesn't exist in scripture. Boundaries yes, budgetary constraints on God because God put the devil on one? No.

Then contrast this idea with Kierkegaard's " Both ideas are incredibly powerful. We, at GSC (most of us anyway, with exceptions for Mike and others like him) are dedicated to understanding the life experiences we lived under twi/wierwille/martindale etc rule. I also am dedicated to the necessary work of imagining my future and planting trees my grandchildren will be blessed to sit under the shade thereof and contemplate their futures.

Is God a concept? If so, man invented God. To glove fit God into a formula, a model, is to conceptualize God, to imaginatively invent God.

But wierwille was to be surpassed by nobody. So that speaks volumes, no?

Great recommendation Rocky ! Another one of her books that is fascinating for anyone who gets into philosophy of religion is The Case for God by Karen Armstrong . It has been some of the inspiration behind a few of my posts on this thread and a few others with similar themes.

Did wierwille believe that? He was a prolific plagiarist. Maybe as a thief he could at least steal what others taught. What was the motivation behind his 1942 Promise fabrication? Was that a way to validate his erroneous idea that people cannot go beyond what they’re taught unless God does the tutoring? Perhaps wierwille was playing king of the hill – setting himself up as the most authoritative person on God and the Bible. Whether he or others realized it or not, I think wierwille was into intellectual hobbling - a method of control to prevent others from straying from a cult mindset. Imagine if educational systems had the maxim you can’t go beyond what you are taught. Would most students acquiesce to the idea? What would be the motivation to develop and improve one’s cognitive skills? Where would inventors, creators, artists, scientists, doctors, scholars, leaders and even inspiring teachers come from?

Oh Hell Noez...

Extremist, in answer to your question, yes. He and his trustees had a "woman in every port" so to speak all over the country and certain gals in the corps. How do I know? I was in one of the early corps. I knew people. I had my women friends tell me about their escapades. I sometimes think I was the only woman who said no to him. Long story, search the threads, its all there.

Changed my mind - sometimes inquiring minds need to take a break .

True dat. My opinion here, but I feel most folks derive a sense of righteousness by being correct. While being right if satisfying, true humility can happily, (or unhappily) accept being wrong and gladly learn the lessons we need.

That sounds so TWI-ish. The "standing in the gap" dange and "participate and be special." Ugh. Good if Christians can come together to pray for common cause. Bad if Christians get elitist about it. "Remind" God ???