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There are many obstacles for me in reading scripture as literal guidance. OT laws and stories are primitive in ethics for sure. Incest, talking donkeys, weird laws around sex, over extensive genealogy just to name a few off the top of my head. Male oriented society multiple wives, kings laws, etc all are even weirder. No I look for gems in the dirt. And find enough for my wants.

I think the problem comes in here with PFAL teachings of the Bible being “our only rule for faith and practice” then dancing around problems doing that. I get just as much inspiration not to be a scribe or Pharisee by Ralph Waldo Emerson when he said “a foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds” for example.

Yes weird story for sure. I can’t explain it all. It seems to me like a failure in understanding the heart of the bloodline principle and the girls trying to make it happen on their own. And an honest story about it including failures. But there is a lot in Numbers, Deut etc about “the law” that seems primitive and extreme beyond that. My approach is looking for that which can inspire me. And OT law and incest don’t do that currently but maybe there will be a good reason to study that in the future. I just look at OT as mostly primitive with weapons, technology, and ethics. I don’t have a clear reason why it was so primitive.

The more I live the more I see convincing people who are of an entirely different opinion is futile. The nature of faith is such that you can prove it to yourself and witness it to others. But you can’t prove it to others as that oversteps their beliefs, boundaries, and interpretation of facts. Yes I believe scripture can inspire humans to more worthy endeavors. But I also believe that scribes and Pharisees squeeze scripture like a lime trying to get their juice out of it which doesn’t help any but themselves. And enslaves others.

Which by default makes it a corrupt organization.

Btw, right up until the suffragist movement in the 19th century, American women WERE treated as chattel. Talk about insane! The Wierwille [private] Interpretation really WAS all about taking our country back in time. IMO there is NFW the current "leadership" of the cult can change the corporate culture such that it can possibly root out the evil entrenched from the very beginning.

I couldnt agree more. I loved the point yall made on definition of neighbor.

Wow....that goes to show that LCM knew the correct answer scripturally and wierwille led him astray right on the spot, thus LCM's retort "You understand what I asked?" Ive always though wierwille corrupted LCM and this is a little piece of that puzzle...thanks NateJr. Follow this link and hit ctl and F at the same time so it searches the webpage. Search the word secret https://biblehub.com/kjv/matthew/6.htm that thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly. and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly. That thou appear not unto men to fast, but unto thy Father which is in secret: and thy Father, which seeth in secret, shall reward thee openly. and then there is: or there is nothing hid, which shall not be manifested; neither was any thing kept secret, but that it should come abroad. I would say that the words of wierwille do not agree with the Words of Christ.

Thanks!!

He said that? Jeepers! Won't influence others? What about the continual undermining of one's own integrity? What about building a habit of disrespecting others? You are what you think, and sooner or later what you think will spill over into your actions. He clearly missed the gems such as 1 Sam 16:7 - for God sees not as man sees, for man looks at the outward appearance, but the LORD looks at the heart.

In that same "teaching" to his Corps in the glory days of 1973, victor paul wierwille "taught" what a neighbor is. Victor's definition goes against what Christ taught. Victor's teaching is antiChrist.

Meh. Mike disappears for extended periods of time and is unchanged when he returns. Gotta give him credit for one thing, though. He's thoroughly mastered that "Stand, no matter what!" schtick.