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Perhaps this explains everything.. looking for.. kids under twenty five years old.. why? You have no use for older, experienced individuals? maybe you are "witnessing"? I know some kids under twenty five.. you can't have them.. sowey.. they are smarter than the average "witnesser".. even without my personal influence.. Most "kids" under twenty five still have all of their teeth.. is that it? you've learned your master's lessons, well.. I know one of them.. who abandoned your kind of nonsense.. and found the Roman Catholic faith more palatable, than what you have to offer..

My wayfer folks taught me if I want to buy a house I should wait for some of our relatives to die. The inherited money they leave would help to not go into debt and stay right with God. They did not have any other ideas. It's good to give your children goals and nice things to look forward to, right?

And to think back to the 70's when Dr Cyclops was teaching in rez that one of the proofs that Islam is bad is that they won't let people have any debt including a mortgage...went on and on about inhibiting people's ability to prosper - and I do mean went on and on and freaking on... What's next? L(nder the idiot, the complete red-azzed baboon disguised as a human, the piece of animal defecation starts to declare fatwahs on GSCers? Edited for this: I am running up debt so my kids can be in good universities. Guess what TWIts? If you don't like my debt on behalf of my childrens' futures feel free to take your wuss version of god and your self-centered control the planet doctrine, place them carefully in a tampon applicator and insert down your throat. Oh one more thing TWIts - god is not first in my life - my children are first - choking yet? ...and to think that lunatic organization once ordained me...any god I would worship doesn't need my money, my hands (god has no hands and all that rot), my children, nor even my allegiance. For you TWIts that put your children in the second tier, having them lose on behalf of your religious nose snot - may you cop lung fungus for withholding from your children.

So what are you REALLY producing.. child warriors.. they look innocent and all. But they are vacuous souls..

This is getting annoying ie. lets have a conversation -- then leave everyone hanging and 'skip town' look Caleb-- you arent some exception to the rule--we are all very busy--if you are going to stick to your word and represent your org as you said that you would then start participating and answering. If you are just another untrustable run of the mill BS'er ---well----we are already getting that message by your disappearance and lack of honest communication with us Its not too late to redeem yourself but your stock in my eyes is going down every passing day that you blow us off---- One thing that I can say at this point is that your silence and absence speaks as loudly as your words, even more so, and so far represents the core of the organization you graduated from very aptly. Promises promises and when it comes to owning up---zilch So far you represent them well

And spoil everyone's fun? He is a young whippersnapper who doesn't know sh!t from shinola. You know, like most of us when we were his age, only most of us didn't know it then, either. But that's different - well, at least for some of us. Linda Z, you are entirely too rational at times. I love it, but it'll cause your "reputation" to suffer.

Rummy - you know I can dish it back with the best of them. In this case I believe the young man was being flippant - nothing more. I feel the same as you about someone coming to my house acting that way, but this is a "public" place, and as such I believe it's best to diffuse rather than respond in kind.

I think this describes a lot of the situation: http://bible.cc/2_chronicles/13-7.htm Jeroboam figured out he had no need of Solomon, or of Solomon's son either.. but don't inflate your ego too much.. you are by no means a Solomon, or Rehoboam.. but you'd be surprised how small a hill of beans people will fight over..

Why else do you think old grampa vicster the first ran crying to geero in scotland? I think PART of the story is true. In his dying days, he saw the political maneuvering, the subtle behind the scenes negotiations.. in short, his *men* (if one could call it that) were actually growing up, to be just like him.. and he was POWERLESS to seize the reins again. So off he went, to what he perceived as the strongest *man(?)* in the "ministry"..to get things "in line" again.. and his *men*, along with geero, ended up carving up *his* ministry, actually whole groups of PEOPLE, like a thanksgiving turkey.. your day will come, bub..if it lasts that long.. I hope you grow eyes in the back of your head..

and this is why your organization won't last. Its built on weakness. In my opinion, also a sickness. Laziness.. Proverbs 24:10 So you can't muster up enough strength to bring about a "revival" of old ministry "values".. so what to do? Find a group of "young men and women" who will take up the cause, FOR you..offer them the moon, of course with a few conditions.. while you stay safe, hole up in the mississippi swamp, barking orders from behind the lines.. eventually, they will grow up, and figure out they have no need for you.. and they will strip you dry.. if you survive that long.. you shoulda just gone back to school, bub..

Next question. What are you going to do in twenty, thirty years, when your "staff" and "volunteers" are beginning to show the wear of age? Sure, pa, mac and a few will get a few "benefits".. without question or explanation. Or it will be something like, "we owe it.. they sacrificed their lives.. and the adversary attacked.. it's da debil's fault.." and that WILL be the spin, if they get some horrid disease, or God forbid, cancer.. will you merely hide these "issues" from the followers? I suggest history will repeat itself. You've got a doctrine which supposedly guarantees success.. a "law" that "works" for saint and sinner alike.. mathematical exactness and all. what will you do when things go "wrong"?

The thing about all of this.. there is no functional "church" to bring these issues up with. It's "loosely" affiliated with likely a half a dozen offshoots.. they must think *they* are *the church* or something like that.. if you "counselled" the *young man* (or rather, the aging morons around him) to just "follow his heart, if gawd called you to do this nonsense, by all means, go for it.." I don't want anything to do with you. You are for the lack of better words with my understanding.. "nuts".. if you are just a bystander and merely advertise his little crock of an "adventure" without some kind of honest inquiry, the same words are for you.. sorry, you're not God. I don't answer to you.. didn't you see the results of this kind of effin moronic nonsense the first time around?

Apparently "The no personal integrity christianity because I dont have to be and Im better than you anyway " is still the alive and well, at least until we get some indication otherwise. That doctrine always bugged me.. Since SIT as they do it is some proof of ultimate acceptance then even the sense of right and wrong eventually gets wiped out. Grandpa Saint Vic used to talk about "having No sense of sin, guilt or condemnation". Later we found out he had a steady stream of young girls serving him while teaching this...What a crock, what he taught as 'renewed mind" was no more than a "seared conscience".

Dooj - lots of churches do not teach the concept of accountability - whether the sin was committed before the "come to Jesus" moment or after. This whole clean slate thing is wonderful when you can't go to the person and at least try to fix things. It's a whole other thing when it is used to excuse bad behavior. The idea that Christians should forgive other Christians for doing bad things because they are Christians is too simplistic, IMO.

Dont scare me like that Bolsh--the way you posted I wasnt sure if it was a done deal--I had to go check....Im on the fence whether to go for Halliday or not---I'd love to have him but I'd hate to give up the prospects...most of those kids are just too good and the future looks bright with them all around--- I know that I'd hate for him to end up on the Yanks--and even that Im conflicted about-It wouldnt be the end of the world because it would further deplete their farm system... Honestly I'd prefer he left the division all together I think he'd be a great fit for the Rangers or could be as dominant as Sabathia was last year if he went to someone in the NL --Phillies maybe?

I think it's only deep if we want it to be. For those of us with a more skeptical bent, there's just not much mystery or intrigue. When viewed from a dispassionate, unconnected place, The Bible is really a pretty unremarkable book. And hardly unique in the claims made for it. I think probably every culture that ever existed had some sort of holy writ to laud for it's wisdom and guidance. Isn't the more likely scenario that religions are just something that people do? People need something to soften the harsh reality of existence. Who really wants to grow old and die? Or - worse yet - watch all your loved ones do it. So we invent something to take the rough edges off of our lot. And once we get comfortable with that something, woe unto anyone who dares question it. But still, getting comfortable with it doesn't make dogma anymore credible. And real, unbiased investigation of beliefs is never really welcomed. You just have to believe it 'cause you want to. The intellect is best bypassed in the pursuit of spiritual nirvana...

I think that religion brings out the worst in mankind. I'd like to think differently - but I can't. . . . either. To be frank. . . I am not very Godly. But, here is the thing. . . . . I am not the one to have faith in. . . . to look to or to trust. . . I will let you down. People don't get to decide who is accepted. . . all are invited. For me, what makes the Christian faith what I choose is Jesus. . . . not some pastor or person. . . . or fellowship. In my silly little life I have never met a person quite like Him. In history there isn't a person quite like Him. All recorded in that book. . . (I know). . . is the most amazing individual. Someone who understood the human condition and had such compassion and love. He also claimed to be God in the flesh. He was either a liar or a nut. . . or He was telling the truth. Either way. . . I choose to believe in Him. . . that He is who He says. . . I have faith in that. Faith in Him. He has yet to let me down. . . people usually do. . . even those who practice the faith. . . . The bible is where I learn about Him. . . not what I worship. . . The warning to the Church at Ephesus was not that they had forsaken the book, but that they had left their first love. You get to know the person of Jesus reflected. . . if we Christians are doing what we are called do. . . I rarely see it happen. . . even in my own life. The mark of a Christian is so simple. . . do good unto ALL men. . . . sadly . . . we often fail.

And.. when the sowers weren't being "good".. what if any was the punishment? Group scream fests? More "fun runs"? Humiliation? Worse?

Congratulations. Well, its too late to edit the poll. Are you going for a degree?

Caleb, welcome to GSC. Could you please clarify what you mean by "the word"?

my "true identity" is well known to *them*. I just have other places I'd rather a google search find my name, first. If you want my name, go to http://www.qrz.com type "kb8pgw" in the search box.. and you have it..

Sorry if it feels like that.. actually, I started out with a few discrete questions to the "source". When they were not answered, the questions just kinda backed up, like a log jam or something.. Sowers grad.. maybe you could assemble these and present them to those who really ought to be answering these questions. I don't know if you are qualified to answer them as it is.. peace

RumRunner, No one gave a whoop at the time. TWI's making such a big deal out of when he was born took all the fun out of Christmas. At least STF doesn't make a big deal out of that like TWI did. It doesn't matter whether he was born in a house, inn, stable, or barn. It doesn't matter whether Mary had the help of a midwife or whether she and Joseph ended up being the only ones there. None of that makes a bit of difference. It's just one more thing to feel like there's a "one up" on orthodoxy. There is "a" version of the Bible that uses house instead of inn. One uses "lodging," while another uses "living-space." Most people don't read any of those versions. The point is that no one gave up their bed and Mary didn't get any special treatment just because she was having a baby. I don't know. I just thought it was ironic how so much emphasis was put on a single word that doesn't make a bit of difference in the outcome.

Or two.. that's what I suspect.. something like da way in 1976.. and if the world DOESN'T come to an end, they have "his eminence" to thank.. and if it does, well, he was "right" after all..

"board", I have a message for you.. you're FIRED.

every person that has crossed my path.. it's been for a reason.. and for the most part, I've figured out why.. even "the kid".. maybe he's not "spirtual" enough yet to figure it out.. :) maybe I'm a voice, from the future.. I've had some of these voices.. I wish I had listened sometimes..

"Counsel" in the old ministry rapidly disintegrated.. from trying to perform "psychic surgery" on people with bone knives and chisels.. to analysis why the "word" wasn't "moving" like it oughter.. they then began to offer unsolicited advice as to one's sex life, finances, hobbies, family relationships, child raising.. what kind of art one should display in the house, what kind of music is appropriate.. then went as far as to try "discern spirits" and weed out "the bad people" who were supposedly the root of the manufactured "problem".. then went as far as to dictate where people live, whether they could buy a house, under what terms.. I wonder if the new group will undergo the same metamorphosis.. what will they do when the "word" doesn't "move like it oughter.."

Seems every year, it's getting harder to hide behind the separationist issues, when one's actions cause harm..

Skyrider's words on another thread seem to fit here. in the old ministry, I don't think it REALLY was about what vic described with tears in the eyes, "building MEN and WOMEN..". It was about building an ORGANIZATION. People be damned.. And there is no accountability. The guy on top has power to "terminate the program at any time", "dismiss ANY participant" at any given moment, at his SOLE DISCRETION. And he is- NEVER WRONG. On any count.. I bet they "ordain" almost every single first graduate of the program..

Being a "24/7" program.. I wonder what the daily schedule is like.. 1. 5 A.M. Morning run. 2. 6 A.M. shower (cold water, on a budget ya know), dress. 3. 6:30 A.M flag raising, followed with prayer and "manifestations". Particular intercession is made for the "trustees' oh, sorry, the "board". 4. 7:30. Consume precisely two and a half cups of boiled millet in the "dining hall". 5. 8-12. Stump pulling in the south pasture today. 6. 12:30-1:30. Consume millet and hot dog sandwiches in the dining hall, while listenening to the mini-mogster expound upon the spiritual significance of current events. 7. 1:45-5 PM. Painting the old barn, more stump pulling, and rock clearing in preparation of planting the new potato crop in the south pasture. 8. 6-7 PM. Potatos, and lentile bean and hotdog sandwiches. Several "voluteers" properly reemed for not stringing the stumps precisely 12.0 inches from each other in the dining and lecture hall. 9. 7-8 P.M. Dinner clean up. The styrofoam cups and plates are carefully washed, and stacked. Unremovable lipstick stains are meticulously scrubbed. 10. 7:30-8:30. "Fun run" with the mini-mog, followed by a lesson in repelling over a cliff. It's AMAZING how he seems to have energy at the end of the afternoon. The mini-mog is impressed- we only lose one participant at the bottom of the chasm this time. 10. 8:30-1AM. Two and a half hours of vic's pfal series, interjected by an hour of analysis by da mini-mogster. Two "participants" harshly reproved for letting debils lull them to sleep during the teaching. Tooth picks to keep eyes open will henceforth be confiscated before class begins. 11. 1:30-3 AM. Sleep. 12. 3-4 AM. Emergency meeting called by the mogster. Prayer and intercession needed. The mogster has inside information that debils in lower Mongolia are planning an attack on the program. 13. 4-5 A.M. Sleep. 14. 5 A.M. Morning run..

"any participant can be dismissed at any time at the sole discretion of those charged with oversight. Unfortunately, we don't carry any life boats"

Catcup, the thing that really troubled me was I basically had the door slammed with just honest, concerned inquiry. Perhaps rather pointed.. but I was polite, or as polite as I could be. I know the kid.. and he knows who I am. This was over a month before I brought it here. Another poster took offense and inadvertenly leaked that supposedly the program really is all Mc*ullen's pride and joy.. The kid couldn't even tell me that much. Why the secrecy? Now I think I wasn't the first one to voice a few objections and warnings.. The arrogance just reeks all the way up here..

Sorry about that-- am out of town using somebody else's weird shaped keyboard and with some bad arthritis developing in my fingers now, I accidentally hit the wrong button and that got sent before I was done. CFF is very decentralized compared to what we were all accustomed to in TWI. Each fellowship is encouraged to set up their own tax-deductible situation so that the money people give stays in their own community. If they wish to send anything on to CFF they can do so, but the idea is to keep the funds serving in the area among those who gave it. So each fellowship really is self-governing and self-supporting, not supporting a huge centralized structure. Also, CFF allows contact with other Christians who have differing beliefs. Allowing contact with other people who believe differently than you does several things: It allows for diversity of opinion, which is something TWI never allowed. This is important because it helps guard against a psychological phenomenon called groupthink, which was present in twi. This phenomenon can be found in many different kinds of organizations where there is strong biased opinion and cohesiveness (and unfortunately I have noted the antecedents and process in play on this board from time to time). This keeps the door open to be able to openly question long-accepted doctrine. It keeps the door open to have new ideas brought in. It avoids the censorship TWI subjected us to. Some people can't handle this idea, because they believe disagreement is not a "Christian" thing to do. Others believe it is not possible to have a Christian fellowship without everybody being "on the same page" with every "jot and tittle" of doctrine. So this can be hard for people to get used to. Still others, in great error, keep trying to pidgeonhole CFF into their idea of what an offshoot should look like, and miss this very important distinction. Because they miss it, they attribute some aspects to CFF that it does not in fact have, and miss important ones it does, like allowing diversity of opinion. However, that is the commitment CFF has to not "censor" other peoples beliefs, but to build bridges to one another in the Christian community, affiliating with both ex-twi groups and Christian groups who have never been a part of twi. This is in CFF's interest of recognizing their part in the larger world community of Christianity and building upon what Christians agree upon together and not what they disagree upon. The down side to that: The same downside you have in any democracy: You have to allow open dissent, even if you disagree with what is being said. While allowing for other people to believe radically different things about Christianity, it also allows for some people to get stuck perpetuating the same old doctrines from the past abusive system due to the lack of control over doctrine. So you get people like vpw II being able to take part in a fellowlaborer program that CFF set up and makes available to any group or any church to take part in, and then go out and start his own thing, totally separate from CFF, the way he wants to, without any input whatsoever from CFF, without their support doctrinally, financially, administrationally, or legally. It is his thing, plain and simple, has nothing to do with CFF, nor is it condoned. I could get more specific, but I don't want to complicate someone else's familial relationship. Don't know if this clears anything up for anybody, but Geek and I were both alarmed at this, he and I both checked it out, and this program is in no way connected to CFF other than a link on their site.

I really think they have delusions of grandeur.. Do they REALLY think they are running a modern-day "school of the prophets"? I really don't think these guys could "prophecy" their way out of a wet paper bag..

As far as cff, not the last I knew of. I believe cff's stance was that we should support those who "labor in the word".. no real heavy burdens laid on people.. but that's cff, or was cff The new thingy though, with vic extremism "pfal is our heritage".. where gramps is the kid's hero.. if they sow that kind of extremism into offshoots, I can see it coming.. I wonder how many of these "honors students" have anything more than a high school diploma..

Somehow, I can't see the world beating a path to a broken down farm in the Mississippi swamp.. especially with gas prices projected to go over four dollars a gallon, people struggling to maintain homes.. families. A person very well may find that with a bachellor's in history, they are still basically unemployable. The old guys apparently can't cut the mustard.. likely too old and worn out to take it out on the road.. but they probably savor the memory, of the days a little piece of the world beat a path to the huckster's door. So what are they really doing, "training" "leaders"(?) and "workers"(??) to go forth, and shake down areas of concern, interest and "need"? About the only place they MIGHT be able to harvest any kind of income or respect, would be places where people still revere the vicster's name.. "we agree on the WORD, don't we?" "well then. Forget the kids, the seventy dollar tank of gas you need to go to work this week.. "gawd" says you owe ten percent, as a MINIMUM.. you won't get ANYTHING if you can't get your foot off the hose.." "can't afford to heat the house? Maybe you aren't giving enough.. gawd can *bless* you. maybe you oughta try fifteen percent.." That little teaching happens to reside in what the "young man" regards as his "heritage"..

Hey, if it is in an isolated area as it looks.. whole weeks, or even months might pass, and who would know?

you know what they say. Grace (stupidity) covers (up and sweeps under the carpet) a multitude of sins.. How do you like that for an ultra expanded literal according to usage? "honorable" counsellors they are, one and all..

I wonder how many of the "board" are technically unemployed at the moment.. it's just a thought.

damn don39 you have a really good memory !!!!! i was born in 1956 but it would be a while before i met my "father" in the word.....

hi again ham!.........i remember, during the "40th anniversary year", and oftentimes at various gatherings at new knoxville and gunnison, that vic had those special conclaves with and for the wierwille family..........he'd get them all together, you know, children and grandchildren, and pump 'em full of their "special" calling as the "man-o-gawd's bloodline family", and how their individual and collective stand on "the greatness of der verd" was of the utmost importance and significance to gawd!........i distinctly remember don answering one of my questions to him about one such meeting at gunnison, which took place while i was there teaching at a family camp, with, "just be thankful YOU were'nt born into this family!"!!.........LOL!........makes me laugh when i recall his facial expression and tone of voice while saying that!....... obviously, jp and sarah and their families were there too...........who knows what "legacies" vic was holding them accountable to produce for him?!!..........it appears that they both took them quite a bit more seriously, and far less cynically than don did!!..........the complexities and psychoemotional realities at play in identity formation are extremely powerful, overt and covert, even in "normal", functional families!.......one can only imagine the psychological, emotional, and "spiritual" forces at work in jp and sarah, both of whom were in crucial stages of their identity formation during those years of 1982-1985.........they were both "good people" as far as my interactions and dealings with them, both in my in-residence corps years at hq in the early 70's, and in the 80's when i lived at hq...........they never really tried to take advantage of their "first family" status while they were in-resident corps trainees, although there were some unavoidable "perks" which i'm sure they enjoyed.........but, there were also the unique pressures on them as vic's biological kids which no one else in the corps had to experience!! i'm not privvy to all they enjoyed, and/or endured during those special, "secret" wierwille family camps!.........and, believe me, i really am truly thankful that i was not "born into" that family, like don said!!!...........however, it is obvious that jp and sarah must have taken some, or maybe many, of the "special revelations" vic had for his "earthly" family seriously to heart, and incorporated them into their personal identity formation processes.........how that impacts their children will continue to unfold before us all who follow the developement of cff, the "ministry" the wierwille's seem to have hitched their family wagon to.......how it impacted them, (jp, sara and their spouses) is unfolding as we post!...........i can only say that i honestly hope they can avoid the horrible mistakes and illnesses that plagued their biological father!.......unfortunately, don could'nt and did'nt..........................................peace.

In 2000,Now this is allegedly The money for "Defeating the Adversary" in northern mi,May Was stolen by a Mr Allen Li@t That came from the new Leader in mi a Mr Anderso@ and his lovely wife Lind@ Seems it was not the first time previous limb leaders had skidaddled and taken money Makes you go hmmmmm.... In 2000,Now this is allegedly The money for "Defeating the Adversary" in northern mi,May Was stolen by a Mr Allen Li@t That came from the new Leader in mi a Mr Anderso@ and his lovely wife Lind@ Seems it was not the first time previous limb leaders had skidaddled and taken money Makes you go hmmmmm....

I wonder if they've written a mission statement yet. I'll volunteer: "Fearlessly building agression in *believers* since 1942.."

Friggin idjits.. feeding his ego so it'll grow big and strong like the old man's.. If one finds oneself with "no friends when it comes to da word.." I really think one finds oneself without friends. At least REAL friends.. Sadly, I don't see how one at a "youthful" or "feeblehearted" stage of character or development can resist this kind of nonsense..

I took a look at their Fellow Laborers program and the comments by the kids - God bless them. But, after reading that they joyously spent their time driving people, cleaning, taking care of "material" things for gatherings, etc., the general busywork they "get" to do to bless the body, reading the very similar "wayspeak" - so to speak - I couldn't finish. Sounded just like us years ago. Like a bad dream. The joy of being a flunkie. Sounds like TWI is alive and well in CFF. Seeing that keeps me thankful God opened a door for us to leave. I just could never go back to that "lifestyle." Lots and lots of running around "doing" things. Kind of like Martha in the gospels. They're certainly busy, but that's all it is, busy work amongst themselves.

I'd like to make a small comparison.. what are "nunneries" turning out these days? Here's one who teaches chemistry and biochemistry: http://www.odu.edu/webroot/orgs/IA/univers...2122007040147PM here's one who will likely be able to teach graduate courses in literature: http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html...750C0A96E958260 .There are well over a hundred nuns in the u.s. who have a REAL doctorate in Mathmatics.. what are they doing? Raising up chemists, physicists, engineers, more math people.. among other things. Trying to improve the economy despite insane governments in some parts of the world.. or just helping ordinary people with a career, so they can properly support themselves and their family. And we were "warned" of the dire consequences of their beliefs.. trinity and all ya know.. The Way Corps was FOR THE MOST PART, an utter, abysmal failure.. what did it produce? A FEW good apples. I know them too. But for the most part, I think what came out were not leaders and workers, but trained sycophants, honed in a carefully crafted shell game, a scam where they live on the backs of others. Along with meddlesome tyrants who aren't happy unless they have their nose in every crevice of your life.. and abusers, both sexual and psychological.. Look at gear, loy, lynn, the guy with the tinfoil hat.. what's his name.. and others. They don't know how to do anything else, for the most part. at least lynn did something "secular"- I'll give him that much credit. "believe to bring MATERIAL ABUNDANCE to yourself (we really mean) the ministry". Sorry.. to me, this newfangled thing looks the same as the old. unless they have a five year plan to get these "inductees" through school, or something legitimate, it's doomed..

So why would they even CARE what I think.. Not all the time, but often a dose of reality resembles your referenced curdled green expelled material.. the whole crew involved in the new venture.. they KNOW where the kind of organization they want to emlulate went to in the seventies, eighties, nineties.. except for the "coordinator". My opinion. the same system they are trying to wring some good out of, provided courtesans for the mogs and mog wanabes.. and thank God- YOU didn't take advantage of it. But how many did? I'm sure they won't come forward into the little "vomitorium" and spill their guts.. probably have wives, families they might destroy.. oh well.. it'll probably eat their stomach out for the rest of their days. How much does junior really know about the "history of da way"? we didn't get very far..

Another thought.. with such a CLOSE resemblence to a product of "The Way International".. I'd be quite suprised if they didn't get a letter from twi's legal "champions".. especially since Mc***en is involved in it..

It seems all I get are more questions. So Mc*&LL*n is organizing it.. So is the youngster's organization and idea, or Mc's? WHY is the youngster's name on it? just more questions.. I don't want to GUESS motive.. but I will if that's my only option.. but what do they care what I think anyway.. with the only information I have.. my own personal conclusion is the youngster's name is being taken advantage of. I'd really like to be proven wrong in this particular matter.

sushi................still lmao!!!!.......izzard is very funny.......your choice of clips........wonderfully appropriate......thanks!