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Perhaps this explains everything.. looking for.. kids under twenty five years old.. why? You have no use for older, experienced individuals? maybe you are "witnessing"? I know some kids under twenty five.. you can't have them.. sowey.. they are smarter than the average "witnesser".. even without my personal influence.. Most "kids" under twenty five still have all of their teeth.. is that it? you've learned your master's lessons, well.. I know one of them.. who abandoned your kind of nonsense.. and found the Roman Catholic faith more palatable, than what you have to offer..

My wayfer folks taught me if I want to buy a house I should wait for some of our relatives to die. The inherited money they leave would help to not go into debt and stay right with God. They did not have any other ideas. It's good to give your children goals and nice things to look forward to, right?

And to think back to the 70's when Dr Cyclops was teaching in rez that one of the proofs that Islam is bad is that they won't let people have any debt including a mortgage...went on and on about inhibiting people's ability to prosper - and I do mean went on and on and freaking on... What's next? L(nder the idiot, the complete red-azzed baboon disguised as a human, the piece of animal defecation starts to declare fatwahs on GSCers? Edited for this: I am running up debt so my kids can be in good universities. Guess what TWIts? If you don't like my debt on behalf of my childrens' futures feel free to take your wuss version of god and your self-centered control the planet doctrine, place them carefully in a tampon applicator and insert down your throat. Oh one more thing TWIts - god is not first in my life - my children are first - choking yet? ...and to think that lunatic organization once ordained me...any god I would worship doesn't need my money, my hands (god has no hands and all that rot), my children, nor even my allegiance. For you TWIts that put your children in the second tier, having them lose on behalf of your religious nose snot - may you cop lung fungus for withholding from your children.

So what are you REALLY producing.. child warriors.. they look innocent and all. But they are vacuous souls..

This is getting annoying ie. lets have a conversation -- then leave everyone hanging and 'skip town' look Caleb-- you arent some exception to the rule--we are all very busy--if you are going to stick to your word and represent your org as you said that you would then start participating and answering. If you are just another untrustable run of the mill BS'er ---well----we are already getting that message by your disappearance and lack of honest communication with us Its not too late to redeem yourself but your stock in my eyes is going down every passing day that you blow us off---- One thing that I can say at this point is that your silence and absence speaks as loudly as your words, even more so, and so far represents the core of the organization you graduated from very aptly. Promises promises and when it comes to owning up---zilch So far you represent them well

And spoil everyone's fun? He is a young whippersnapper who doesn't know sh!t from shinola. You know, like most of us when we were his age, only most of us didn't know it then, either. But that's different - well, at least for some of us. Linda Z, you are entirely too rational at times. I love it, but it'll cause your "reputation" to suffer.

Rummy - you know I can dish it back with the best of them. In this case I believe the young man was being flippant - nothing more. I feel the same as you about someone coming to my house acting that way, but this is a "public" place, and as such I believe it's best to diffuse rather than respond in kind.

I think this describes a lot of the situation: http://bible.cc/2_chronicles/13-7.htm Jeroboam figured out he had no need of Solomon, or of Solomon's son either.. but don't inflate your ego too much.. you are by no means a Solomon, or Rehoboam.. but you'd be surprised how small a hill of beans people will fight over..

Why else do you think old grampa vicster the first ran crying to geero in scotland? I think PART of the story is true. In his dying days, he saw the political maneuvering, the subtle behind the scenes negotiations.. in short, his *men* (if one could call it that) were actually growing up, to be just like him.. and he was POWERLESS to seize the reins again. So off he went, to what he perceived as the strongest *man(?)* in the "ministry"..to get things "in line" again.. and his *men*, along with geero, ended up carving up *his* ministry, actually whole groups of PEOPLE, like a thanksgiving turkey.. your day will come, bub..if it lasts that long.. I hope you grow eyes in the back of your head..

and this is why your organization won't last. Its built on weakness. In my opinion, also a sickness. Laziness.. Proverbs 24:10 So you can't muster up enough strength to bring about a "revival" of old ministry "values".. so what to do? Find a group of "young men and women" who will take up the cause, FOR you..offer them the moon, of course with a few conditions.. while you stay safe, hole up in the mississippi swamp, barking orders from behind the lines.. eventually, they will grow up, and figure out they have no need for you.. and they will strip you dry.. if you survive that long.. you shoulda just gone back to school, bub..

Next question. What are you going to do in twenty, thirty years, when your "staff" and "volunteers" are beginning to show the wear of age? Sure, pa, mac and a few will get a few "benefits".. without question or explanation. Or it will be something like, "we owe it.. they sacrificed their lives.. and the adversary attacked.. it's da debil's fault.." and that WILL be the spin, if they get some horrid disease, or God forbid, cancer.. will you merely hide these "issues" from the followers? I suggest history will repeat itself. You've got a doctrine which supposedly guarantees success.. a "law" that "works" for saint and sinner alike.. mathematical exactness and all. what will you do when things go "wrong"?

The thing about all of this.. there is no functional "church" to bring these issues up with. It's "loosely" affiliated with likely a half a dozen offshoots.. they must think *they* are *the church* or something like that.. if you "counselled" the *young man* (or rather, the aging morons around him) to just "follow his heart, if gawd called you to do this nonsense, by all means, go for it.." I don't want anything to do with you. You are for the lack of better words with my understanding.. "nuts".. if you are just a bystander and merely advertise his little crock of an "adventure" without some kind of honest inquiry, the same words are for you.. sorry, you're not God. I don't answer to you.. didn't you see the results of this kind of effin moronic nonsense the first time around?

On another thread, this post from Chockfull needs repeating......and its own thread. And, reading the next verse.........Abstain from all appearance of evil. Far too many were indoctrinated into "the way of wierwille's rightly-divided word".........and GreaseSpot is needful to point out THE EVIL (ie doctrinal deception, unbridled adulation to mogs, sexual predation, financial exploiting, manipulation, plagiarism issues, etc. etc.). Later, under martindale's regime, the buzz-phraseology morphed to "the present truth"......another bewitching from obeying the truth, the scriptures. Thankfully, this site GreaseSpot, addresses the other side of twi to help us PROVE ALL THINGS. Open dialogue is a beautiful thing. :)

Not in person for many (10+ ) years. No bumper stickers for about as long. I do see some on web sites like Facebook, MySpace, etc. Good to know that the internet is now blessed by WayVille. Anyone know when being online was no longer instant possession? Just curious. Weirdest encounter with an ex-wayfer? A guy at an airport with his kids wearing a really old WOW jacket. I asked if he was with the Way and he said "no." No explanation. "Were you ever a WOW?" "Yep." Man of many words.... Dumb me HAD to ask why he still wore the jacket then. His answer? "Uh, I like the color." JT

I do not, for one minute, doubt their sincerity. I listened to the mp3 a couple of times and it seemed like JWS really wanted to make the birth event "special" in yet another way, which is kinda ironic in that TWI spent so much time debunking the 3 kings (magi, wise men) tradition, and the whole Christmas tradition in general.

I think they are "holed up" waiting for the end of the world so to speak.. fearful of being "overrun" by the new world order or something.. makes sense. Start a program, get free labor to work a farm.. its likely a tax exempt status outfit now. No taxes.. a warmer part of the u.s... little or no utility costs.. what did they do with the produce, if any? Socked it away for a hard winter? This is (unanswered) question one of many.. The next (likely left unanswered) question.. how many firearms and ammunition do you have on hand? just a few innocent questions.. :)

I dunno. I keep coming back to the thought.. they've sent a boy to do a man's job.. why is this.. confront us "vindictive" god rejectors with da "love of god".. it's just my impression.. looks like the same thing, all over again..

I don't foresee there ever being a healthy dialogue with any leader or member of any offshoot on this board. I can only imagine what it must feel like. Probably a lot like slathering oneself with honey and standing on a hill of red ants. I've never been to a CFF meeting and have no interest in going to one. I have no stake whatsover in SOWERS and no current relationship with any of its board or staff. In other words, I have no interest in defending anything except everyone's right to express themselves here without being treated with disdain and having every word picked apart right out of the gate.

I know at least one business owner, very successful. Barely made it through high school. And I am highly in favor of people doing what they would just love to do. But I say.. especially with a highly profitable venture, maybe a LITTLE education would enhance one's pleasure in life.. maybe take a class in accounting. Maybe a few more in subjects relevant to one's pursuits. A little knowledge just might give one the tools to find out if they are being financially manipulated or something.. happened to Billy Joel.. all he wanted to do was the music.. lost practically everything..

whoever had a bad time of it.. I'm sorry.. I know it can happen. Taking out student loans and such can be a pretty big gamble. If one does not finish, well.. you still owe. Going the loan route, at a good (or rather expensive) school can put one in debt well over $100,000.00 or so.. but over-all, it looks like people generally had a good experience . And I suppose everything is a gamble as it is. I know one fellow classmate who graduated with a degree in computational math, and passed a pair of actuarial exams. There are NO job opportunities for him, at least in this state, along the lines of actuarial work, anyway.. Myself, I tell this university I'm interested in being a math educator, and they roll out the red carpet.. Between what I get paid in the stipend, and if I work for them in the summer, I make at least what I did in my previous job..

I wonder how they REALLY view the results of this election.. a day of mourning, because of the success of the communist plot, to delude voters everywhere, to destroy our wally mart way of life in the united states? A "crisis", to bolster up the "troops" to vigilance and preparedness? since there is no dialog, I can only guess.. but I bet it's a good guess.. Then again, maybe they just don't care.. just gone away to try to unplug from the "system"..

Sooo.. it's almost election time. I wonder what the "sewers" block vote will be.. probably a write-in for Bush/Cheney... sorry, I'm in such a good mood this morning, I think I'll go throw up from laughing too hard..

"in depth spiritual perception and awareness.." hah. all I perceive, is an intellectully dumbed down "renewed mind" self or otherwise inflicted egotistical attitude that CAN'T consider any other valid options.. well, that's the end of my analysis of corps principle one.. what's next.. hmm. To receive training in the whole word, so as to be able to teach others.. how can one do this in only one year? To "be able to teach" in an academic sense requires something like seventeen years of school work..

'grandson of gawd'Good one!I dont care that he plays the part,that could be charmless,it is the part of bringing back,or improving upon somthing tghat was now clearly flawed.Ya know,everywoman in the kingdom,ad nauessuem... If he stared fresh,upfront honest...OH WELL ANOTHER STARRY EYED MESSIAH...

I wonder if raising your kid to think he's the messiah could be considered child abuse..

and they still have the same lame website.. no information of real relevance. http://sowersonline.com/default.aspx No listing of "officers".. just a single contact through an aol account, and a donate tab at the bottom. The feeling I get looking at that.."here am I, serve me.."

j.p. same program. v2p2's running it, but he's not running it. It's his idea, but not really his idea.. it's run by a board.. pa's on board. Then I hear: it's not jr.'s program, it's really Mc*ullen's.. but then junior tells me he cooked it up.. and that's about all anybody who is not on the "board" knows.. or rather, that's all those on the "board" seem to care that anybody else should know..

especially if it is a sequel of a really really bad show to begin with.. since they aren't exactly forthcoming on staff and qualifications.. I have a few questions for those "in the know", maybe they could forward them to the appropriate people- note, they are not accusations. 1. As staff or leadership in the old ministry, did you abuse your position of authority, power of rendering summary judgment, and betray your trust between God and other believers? 2. As old leadership, were you aware of those who broke trust and condoned it, made excuses for perpetrators and covered for it? 3. What are you doing to keep the same abuses from happening again? Or do you hold to the myth of the mog, that he can do no wrong? Answer the questions to yourself if you wish.

I wonder if they feature "The Myth of the Six Million" and "Hoax of the Twentieth Century" in their bookstore..

http://www.greasespotcafe.com/main2/radio/...ng-the-way.html This should be required listening for the staff and "participants".. I wonder if gramps would still be the kid's greatest hero.. Honestly, I think they are building a shrine for a turd..

If they don't grow their own mung bean sprouts and Swiss Chard and make their own familia from scratch in bag- lined garbage cans, I ain't goin' and that's that!! And you can't make me! So there!

Yep.. "revelation"... ha. "all nine all the time"? I wonder how many times they've prayed for the demise of the "critics" who stand in the way of "gawd's will" being done.. The "deliver unto Satan" deal.. that was part of the inheritance junior got from vic's teaching, ya know.. I know the m.o.. do they REALLY think they've got God Almighty on a magic wand, to do with Him as they please?

Wouldn't suprise me, at all.

Hey, at least I give them fair warning. "follow me if you must, thou verily mightest have fun, but be assured you are following a fruit cake.."

a few more thoughts.. what are the requirements for qualification to be part of the "program"? Supposedly "administered"(?) on an "honors"(??) basis? Does the enrollee have to have to submit themselves to sitting through a bootleg copy of old "docs" "miracle class", or every class known to cff.. or be "graduates" of cff's program, or what? I mean.. if they are supposed to have "honors" qualifications.. what ARE the qualifications? or do they make them up as they go along? Does one have to even hold a high school diploma? Know the greek alphabet? or just prepared to put up with enough crap, and keep smiling? I think it's a fair question. Or are they looking for those who are actually intelligent, but unemployed, and will put up with enough crap to take a supposed "shortcut" to get out of mom and dad's house? The next big question: How many bridges have they been told that they will have to burn behind them to reach "the promised land"? And once there, will they find themselves forced to comply with insanity, or be sent off into the outer "darkness"? The whole concept here is very troubling to me..

Rhino reports he's supposed to have some kinda guest membership at the ex corps site, never having gone through the corpse. Maybe it's all innocent and everything.. but from the outside it looks like a joke. Still no answers though. I'd say richeson is trying to rub elbows with the who's supposedly who. as far as cff is concerned, he's their product.. went through their program. Now they have an have a link to his little adventure on the farm..

Yeah like Super BAAAA!!

And I think that says a lot of what these "leaders" think of "gawd's people".. sheep to be coralled in.. there are some comparisons with people I suppose. But as it goes, the ordinary sheep are kind of clueless.. have no idea of who the enemy really is.. they need protection, feeding.. they really weren't made to win a real fight with anything.. on the same notion, sheep aren't exactly suited to clearing large stumps with pickaxes, moving large stones, chopping and stacking firewood.. learning how to butcher and prepare mutton.. and when unable to bear up under the tasks given them by the "masters" of the camp who couldn't bear them themselves, I haven't heard of sheep given the ultimatum by a shepherd: "tow the line, or we'll cancel on you and send you home.." Maybe they are looking for "super sheep"..

Yes men, in search of a cause..

Apparently they dont have any thing better to do... This is thier hobby..Its da vord The need?why to raise new mini mes to take thier places and pay for thier retirements.. Dont know anything about cff,Probably would not be welcome there,Dont toe the line ya know? I wish mr wierwille well Hope his head is not filled with delusions of grandeur

Another evaluation from WordsandWorks on an old thread.. Umm.. this was in the "good old days" of "doc"'s reign.. part of the corps "experience".. and to think that I or anyone else was conned to think sponsoring people into that boiling pot of human flesh was actually the godly thing to do..

Interesting.. That is at least PARTLY encouraging.. but still- I could see my emails traded around in the background.. pretty close knit family. I wasn't exactly born yesterday.. I know the "routine" :)

Sadly, I feel many of my "helpful" comments were considered rather "negative".. kinda like.. why ruin "the walk by faith" with a few details.. it's at this point I turn cynical. At least there is ONE difference between this, and the inception of vic's "corps".. there are a number of people watching VERY VERY carefully. Whatever happens, I feel my hands are clean in the matter..

Similarities.. they'll just have to take the first set of folks, kick their a**, and send them home as "zeros".. just for appearance sakes..

Here are the principles listed at the SOWERS web site. http://sowersonline.com/contactus.aspx

I wouldn't shoot a possessed chicken. I'd take him on the road.. people might pay real money to watch him..

I think I found him. Moments after possession, moments before the shotgun blast..

Maybe the chicken in suspect started doing a line dance or something. Possessed with the spurt of Swa-tra-tra..

Nothing. Zero. Zip. Nada. Complete waste of time, money, heart and everything I wasted on that terrible outfit. Anything worthwhile that can be gleaned from it can be learned much more easily and less painfully and in less time just by living life and applying common sense. Any good is absolutely completely overshadowed by the vile thought and behavior control and abuse. If you want to wreck your life, try heroin. It's cheaper, less destructive and easier to kick. Plus, you will find it easier to explain to others when they ask you what you wasted your youth on. Burn HQ to the ground and turn it back into a farm if anything will still grow in that corrupted dirt. That's the nicest thing I can say about the organization, and don't get me started on its sick, perverted, lying, diseased founder or his successors. And I'm in a good mood right now so I'm holding back.

jp decided to do that site and before that.... it was on here.... ?