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The ability to deceive yourself is crucial to the kind of group cohesion TWI tried to cultivate. Trick enough people into deceiving themselves, each believing that no one else is deceiving themselves, and you have mass delusion as cult paste! That's why it was so necessary for them to get as many of us as possible to speak in tongues at the same time, and for TWI to be the people who taught us how to do it. The notion that you faked it is easy for you to believe. The notion that everyone faked it is harder for you to accept, because now you're thinking evil of people, and thinking evil is a big no-no, don't ya know. Most people think too highly of their critical thinking skills to even begin to entertain the notion that they might have participated in their own duping.

Hadn't heard that take on it, Outie. But then, why should there be consistency? What they taught one year or decade could be the exact opposite of something taught in another year or decade.

We were taught that "in Christ" meant "in fellowship". Therefore the verse "there is therefore now no condemnation to them that are in Christ Jesus" became conditional. The implication was that if you weren't "in fellowship" you were under condemnation. I was always asking God's forgiveness for sins real or imagined in order to assure I was in the magical state of "in fellowship".

We wanted to be right with God or something like that. This was taken and used as a rope around our necks. That "in fellowship, out of fellowship" teachings is a noose around the neck, cutting off the air, the spirit. Tighten the rope with fear of being wrong and letting it loose if we were right. Torture, plain and simple. The illusion or delusion of fellowship with God.

Jon Favreau? George

My post is more doctrinal, but I just can't resist posting. IMHO, just how good, is good enough? What sins did Jesus not cover under the cross? My antenna's go up when I hear this kind of stuff, because I know I'm a no good stinky sinner and I need a savior. Under the old covenant, the law was made to show that we cannot keep it. If I break one law I break them all. There is this talk show lady, June Hunt, who asks people when they call in for advice. "Are you a GENUINE Christian?" She means that if they are still actively sinning in some area, sex, alcohol, drugs, whatever...they can't possibly be born again. Christians twist things to say that of course we are saved by grace, but if we really are saved, we wouldn't be sinning "as much" anymore. Well, I have to call BS on that. People are only fooling themselves. If anybody has a problem with seeing sin in themselves, just ask somebody else. They'll be able to point out what you can't see as clearly as they can. The Holy Spirit is sinless in us, and that's what God sees when He looks at us.