Radar OReilly

Well....PB&M sounds eerily like PB AND S&M to me My cousin...the "shrink" turned general manager for a race car team...he lives on Peanut Butter, mayo and balogne on sourdough (he lives in California) bread. For me, the San Francisco bay area gal now living in a small beach town in North Carolina, it is peanut butter ON apple...no bread...too many carbs!! :D--> ROR Sowwy...but the peanut butter and onions thing is just TOO WIERD

Galen, I am not speaking for Socks, but for myself, a corps grad. I understand the point he is trying to make. You revere the teachings of VPW but revile (so to speak) his students. The way corps is and was.....a group of people, from opposite parts of the country, opposite countries of the world. Different educational backgrounds, financial stratas, goals and most of all....PERSONAL SPACE. We came together for training, training for a lifetime of christian service. Our motives were as varied as our personalities. I PERSONALLY do not know that anyone that I knew or was friends with went into the way corps for any reason other than we wanted to be trained for a lifetime of christian service. THAT SAID......I totally agree that lots of us were total SCREW UPS, total IDIOTS, total LOOSERS and totally devoid of spiritual judgement and or/spiritual concern for others. ON the other hand, there were PLENTY OF US that were just IDIOTS. We THOUGHT we were being trained for a LIFETIME OF CHRISTIAN SERVICE but we were WRONG. I am not gonna make a blanket apology for all of the idiots that went thru and graduated from the way corps...that is their cross to bear. But please, when please listen and consider what Socks says....he and his wife..they leave a legacy of WHAT IT COULD HAVE BEEN in their wake. He isn't wrong.......at least not in this matter. He is speaking for many more of us than even he knows. Radar

My3Cents told my story for me, he was in Rye, I was in the San Francisco Bay area. I was 14 in 1971 when I went to my first twi fellowship, THE WAY PRESENTS in Oakland, 15 by the time I got involved whole heartedly in fellowships (they weren't even called twigs yet.) Gosh, it is hard to understand what a 14 year old thinks, feels, wants out of life. I think it was the ideal of a mission....something that many were called to do...but few had answered that call. I wanted to help, to make a difference, leave my world just a little bit better than I had found it. Why did I stay? Oh, NOW THAT is a totally different question. Radar

For all you commercial watchers (TOM STRANGE!!) et al, The PRESENT TRUTH was/is alot like that CINGULAR WIRELESS commercial.... "It is pretty hard to know when you have crossed the line WHEN YOU CAN'T SEE THE LINE. The present truth was just one more way to control and manipulate the twi followers. One more imaginery measuring stick, one more way to PROVE your salt. Radar

FINE, Dunk and Sink sounds fine to me :D--> ROR Don't forget I tried to help ;)-->

Watered Garden & Dot, Well said, both of you. And...anything less than perfect physical health & and height/weight ratio...was a direct affront on the mogfodat, it was a personal slap in his face...done deliberately to hinder his personal walk and ability to lead the FUNCTIONING HOUSEHOLD into the Promised land of the Prevailing Household or WHATEVER!!!!!!!! Radar

Yuhoooooo....SHA LAWN!!!!! Honey, since you have been going to school for a couple of years now ;)-->, I think it is high time for you to sign up for some beginning swimming lessons. You have plenty of time to make it thru polly wog to intermediate between now and the weenie roast :D--> Just a little advice from one of your nearest and dearest fellow gspotters!! ROR Freakie---I am definitely attending this years roast. Last year my mother had just had cancer surgery and unfortunately, we had an un-invited guest that same weekend....HURRICANE ISABEL I will see you there, we need to schedule our thumb-wrestling contest there!! That way we can settle once and for all who is the REAL Bliss Ninny of Greasespot. ROR

I did not attend the first or 2nd Southern Comfort Weenie Roasts...however..... I do think that people that ADMIT to having crazy sh^^^ty days should be among the first people to be granted admittance. ROR

Exxie, That quote is a play off of a car commercial from a number of years ago. I think (but I am not sure) that it was Chevrolet. "This AIN'T your father's chevrolet" LCM meant that the NEW IMPROVED TWI was MEANER, LEANER AND FASTER....than the OLD twi. I said it was a twi saying....not that it was a GOOD saying. LCM could come up with some pretty lame stuff Radar

Oldiesman, TWI definitely teaches and believes that they are the ONE TRUE HOUSEHOLD OF GOD, the REMNANT, the salted. During the late 90s the phrase was "This AIN'T YOUR FATHER'S WAY MINISTRY." No matter how you (or any of us) felt about twi when we were young and first getting involved....or even up through the late 80s and early 90s. After that EVERYTHING CHANGED. It in no way, doctrine, practice, heart....resembles anything you personally experienced or remember. You consistently stand up for your "memory" of what twi was to you during those times. No matter how accurate you memory is, the twi of today is NOTHING LIKE anything you think you remember. If someone you know needs help, or wants to go to fellowship of some sort.....you need to consider making the arrangements yourself. The local twi'ers simply aren't interested in genuine godly good works...the kind referred to in Galatians. The "little people" might be good folks with great hearts, but they are not being taught the type of biblical teachings you yourself remember being taught. Radar :(-->

When I left twi 4 years ago, we were required to write "thank you" letters to the teacher of the class (which was at that time always lcm) and give specific incidents and verses from the class that "blessed us." We were then required to turn them into our branch/limb coordinator so that they could all be mailed together....and that way the branch coordinator could check off all our names to make sure that we were all good "little doo bees." It really makes me sick to think of how controlling twi is and how controlled their followers are. Radar

Last I heard Suzanne was married, had a baby and was on staff at Gunnison. That could be old news. Her mom is still in Greensboro NC if you want to start there. Private topic me if you need her mom's name. Radar

AND THE WINNER IS ALFIE!!!!!! When everything has been said and done, I think the biggest lesson I have taken away from my twi experience is that NOTHING IS EVER WHAT IT SEEMS TO BE. Radar

Goey, During the mid 80s LCM became AWARE that he was the head of a "multi million dollar corporation." TWI was embroiled in the IRS tax case, Ernst and Young had their own office space in the OSC finance department (along with their own telephone ext etc.) The word "MINISTRY," as in WAY MINISTRY was seldom uttered, it was THE WAY INTERNATIONAL. There is no doubt in my mind that the loyalty issue was strictly a business issue. We had lost 4/5 of the leadership, no one KNEW where several of the top trunk and root locale leadership REALLY stood on the topic of Martindale vs Geer. We used to joke around about one of the region coordinators having been to gartmore so many times that he had been given an apartment over there! And of course, it was the abs of the twi followers that was footing the bill of most if not all of things like that. The loyalty oath/issue directly led into the MARK AND AVOID phase of twi. Once lcm & rfr had the cold hard facts as to who stood where and with or against whom, they then had to figure out how to circle the wagons, and protect "the household." Make no mistake, rfr and Donna were much more into these decision making processes than people were willing to admit to. The loyalty oaths, they were just another mechanism to "isolate" and divide families, households and marriages. Those were dark times that lead to even darker times. It was business, plain and simple. Radar I do want to clarify something here. At that point in time there was a SHADOW GOVERNMENT sort of thing going on. There were lots of really great, wonderful, godly, loving people that were trying to do the of the Lord. And we were trying to keep what we thought was the true ministry afloat and going until the dust settled. BUT the decisions that were being made by lcm, rfr and DM were not made in that LIGHT. They were being made as face value business decisions and being sold to the "worker bees" like myself as the will of the lord.

Goey, I am not answering for Oldies here but I would like to answer this for myself. At the time of the loyalty letters, I was completely and totally loyal to twi. I had been on staff for four years in a responsible position. It wasn't LCM that I was so into as much that it was GOD'S MINISTRY to the world (as I believed it to be then.) I had NO PROBLEM signing my loyalty paper and turning back in, I was HAPPY to do so. There were a number of us at root locations and of field staff that envisioned ourselves as THE COUNTER REVOLUTION to borrow the term from Johnny Lingo (in a previous life form ;)--> How do I feel now? I feel like that was one of the greatest mistakes of my life. If I had it to do all over, THAT is when I would have chosen a different life path. I should have packed my bags and moved right then and there with any number of my friends that had the brains to do it. But, since I didn't, I subjected myself to another 10 years of pain, devastation and wasted opportunity. Not a happy story....but it is mine and I at least got out with all my moving parts, if not my sanity!! Radar

Outofdafog, Check your private topics? ROR

Hope, JohnRus is correct. It was the anniversary tape/service in October 1995. I was sitting in a little brown cabin meeting kinda place in Jamestown NC. Gosh...amazing how our memories work isn't it? As an aside, I remember being told about when Don Wierwille first was "informed" that he was retiring and that RFR was going to be his replacement... YOU'RE KIDDING???? LCM, RFR and Donna sure had a way of doing things. ROR

JT, Yes LCM did change the salt covenant thing. I don't know the specifics, it was quite private but I remember him telling the staff about it. That happened when either the 20th or the 21st corps graduated....any of you out there that can help us with the specifics? ROR

Time itself has proven the weight of LCM's loyalty oath. It was ill conceived, and time has proven, unGodly. All the ins and outs and what ifs and maybes, and coulda, shoulda, wouldas will never change what happened. The loyalty issue began sometime after March 8, 1989 within the in residence 17th corps. They were were to turn in a 3X5 CARD to the corps coordinators stating whether they a. Stood with LCM b. Stood with Geer C. Were confused as to what was right (or something like that) If they choose Geer or Confused they had to immediately leave in residence training ... (Confusion is of the devil....dontcha know???) After that it went to the full time root locale and limb/region employees (waypay.) It then went to the Way Corps on the field. Eventually, the good little Korpz were asked to go through each member of their fellowships and begin weeding them out according to their loyalty. Oldiesman....picking apart each letter, word by word, innuendo by innuendo doesn't show the bigger picture. Most of these letters were read aloud at Corps Nights and special corps meetings all over the country & and the world. There were all kinds of things that were SAID that were not necessarily reflected in the PRINTED MATTER that was out in circulation. Radar

E.W. About a year ago...a small plot of land (about 1/2 acre x 1/2 acre) not far from my house became the church building for a small church. It looked cute, well maintained, small, and I have to drive right by it to get into and out of the small lake neighborhood that I live in. I thought to myself...on my multiple trips by it daily...."wow, that seems cool." I cannot get to my house without going by it. I had almost convinced myself to stop in there and find out about them. I have been out of twi for 4 years and as of yet have had no interest in any sort of church experience. I thought...wow...maybe this could be it? Maybe this could be a little place that I could go...fellowship with folks.....and then work myself back into a church filled environment." Then, one day I went by on a Sunday morning.....the "Trustee" parking lot had about 4 high dollar vehicles parked there (at least 40K each) and the rest of the cars are maybe.....15K to 25K, nicely kept, but none new, none spectacular. Just mini vans and nice family cars. I realized right then and there...THIS IS JUST A FREAKING CULT. The leaders are living high on someone's hog......and the guy driving the 91 chrysler mini van is paying the car payments on that lexus. It has never crossed my mind to go to any kind of a church since then. Radar

Abi, In the past few months I have found myself in contact with a group of folks here in my town that are all into the "messianic jewish" movement. I have met their Rabbi's and the Reformed Rabbi and they are a great bunch of folks just trying to do what they feel God wants them to do. Overall, I enjoy them, and I enjoy our discussions and exchanges of thoughts. The one area I am very concerned about with them is an area that you and I both experienced in twi. These folks are fundamentalist bible thumpers in a way that I completely understand, having been there myself. They reject things like Valentine's day, calling it Sweet Hearts Day. They don't celebrate Chrismas even though they are Christians, as a matter of fact Christmas is thought of and considered almost exactly as it was to twi. My girlfriend's fiance broke up with her briefly because she isn't as "spiritual" as he is because she wasn't attending the single woman's study group regularly...are you following my drift? You and I have discussed that man...he is running for the state attorney general in the state I live in. I hope your group is different. I certainly know that you are one smart cookie. Just keep your antenna up and tuned. Radar

Kit, You are an awesome woman. :)--> Radar

The luck of the Irish be with you all....... Radar O'Reilly [This message was edited by Radar O'Reilly on March 16, 2004 at 7:05.]

Stevie, whadda guy!! Goey...et all.....I started a topic on this over at the decafe forum.... Pat....forgive the momentary derail. Radar

From the POLITCALGRAVEYARD.COM .....just in FYI William Jefferson Clinton (b. 1946) -- also known as Bill Clinton; William Jefferson Blythe IV; "Slick Willie"; "Bubba" -- Third cousin twice removed of James Alexander Lockhart; married to Hillary Rodham Clinton. Born in Hope, Hempstead County, Ark., August 19, 1946. Democrat. Rhodes scholar; candidate for U.S. Representative from Arkansas 3rd District, 1974; Arkansas state attorney general, 1977-79; Governor of Arkansas, 1979-81, 1983-92; President of the United States, 1993-2001; delegate to Democratic National Convention from Arkansas, 2000. Baptist. Member, Council on Foreign Relations; Trilateral Commission; Pi Sigma Alpha. Impeached by the House of Representatives in December 1998 over allegations of perjury and obstruction of justice, but acquitted by the Senate. Still living as of 2003. Books about Bill Clinton: David Maraniss, First in His Class : The Biography of Bill Clinton; Joe Conason, The Hunting of the President : The Ten-Year Campaign to Destroy Bill and Hillary Clinton; Gene Lyons, Fools for Scandal : How the Media Invented Whitewater.