Naten00

Being a newbie what is TWI's prevailing word.... Is this something VPW picked up from the sonar waves of God?

Having "thousands" of Christian Denominations is what you would expect from finite creates taking his word and forming opinions of an infinite God. The reason why people get angry with God is because not that he is an absent father but that the father does not operate at the will of the Children. What is best for us is typically not what we want.... We want the God of the McDonalds age or even the of Chinese buffet.... Pick what we feel like what we want or need then discard the rest in our fast food line of life, spirituality and/or religion. This is based on what feels best to us. It is the same frustration I get out of the people around me. Even when driving my car. Other people not operating at the same speed the I want to go. Possibly it is not God but us who defines the boxes that we tell Him to get into.... Let God make the box because he is the one with the Eternal perspective. This is why faith is necessary... It is impossible for man to see the whole picture. When tragedy strikes we only see our world, not every minute effect of it for the rest of time. This is what makes us angry at God because He sets the boundaries for everything... Too often we don't like them and just like a Father who sets boundaries or does what may seem to be painful to us we don't take his recommendations by faith because of our desires and feelings we will reject what seems to be illogical.

Thanks for your review of the book.... I don't think I can agree with you on your evaluation nor your view on hell and I don't have the time to go into it deeply. I can give you a little bit of my personal beliefs. My views were formed prior to each book. I think there is good evidence in scripture to say that people in hell will or may be destroyed.... As the verse implies by Jesus telling the disciples not to fear the one with the sword rather fear the one who has the power to throw your soul into hell and destroy it yes I tell you fear him. I always thought about it as a possibility..... But hey I could always be wrong. I don't know why you say their book follows tradition... It seems to me the traditional since of hell is that people will be tortured for eternity.... Are you speaking about tradition to the early writers or of how we traditionally view hell in our culture. I have a hard time seeing that in scripture. They may be in fire and that is torture but not torture as the devil is playing around with Humans. Your comment about page 50 seems to be not looking at the next few pages. His point is not wholly what the OT says about hell but rather what the first century Jews said about it as he quoted a few of them. He also showed how some of them even disagreed about the issue of Annihilation or not...... To me the books main point was that hell is real and that you were not going to get saved out of it. I don't know about these concepts of destruction or everlasting torment... All I know is it is a place I don't want to go and that once your there it's either forever or your done. But I guess I will have to find out on the other side of this life.

They get sooooooooooooo upset if you call them a TWI ministry.... They "think" for themselves.

well.... Never being in the way but reading peoples history with Mr. VPW and his botch hermeneutics and horrible greek and hebrew interpretation..... I told my wife this guy has alter motives to "teaching" the word of God. What is sad that people I see in and outside of the way (splinter cell groups).... They seem to insert in the All Scripture is God breathed to VPWs scripture is God Breathed. It seems men and women worshiped him.

Good one Waysider... ha ha ha

Just want to say Oldskool your profile pic... I love it... They are prefect for this website... I can just see them cracking jokes at TWI as they do the muppets.... Possibly one and the same! ha ha ha ha ha

Well I was just hoping I wouldn't go there either to have them lecture me about "the way"..... Or to have them roll their eye's and such at me.... I may go just to get the experience but ummmmm not something I would look forward too.

If the bible has contradictions in it then there is things that is wrong or not from God then we need to take out some verses like all scripture is not God breathed in 1 Tim. It seems to me to be a domino effect occurs. It is either true or false...... To me it seems like trying to put God in our box and since we don't understand it.... well it must be a contradiction. If the bible had contradictions is not an indication of what is true or false in the book.... To me I can't trust it. It might as well be a book with Good says as I am the judge that determines what is of value.... Do good to your neighbor as you want to do good.... sounds like a good one to me. In the 4th sura of the Quran it says Jesus was taken back off the cross and someone took his place to look like it (debate in muslim world that is was judas). I don't believe the Quran because I don't think it is 100% true as there belief states that about what happened to Jesus. There may be true statements but that statement seems not to with historical records inside and outside the bible. I just can't trust the Quran. If there were to be something to me that would be a contradiction or something that is just totally false. I am not talking about passages like the one in John 7-8 the adulterous woman that do not show up until centuries later.... There is debate about it but most all agree it is something Jesus did. But it dose not change doctrine or contradicts anything else in scripture. It just kinda goes along with it. There are a few more debated scriptures other than people who don't like certain books of the bible but that is on another rant. If it did have contradictions in it then it would be just like any other book..... We just choose what we feel is right. I think Grace and works go hand and hand.... I think this also goes into what is salvation? I think works is just the natural byproduct of salvation..... As James says faith without works is dead..... Can you really say you are saved by a spiritual grace if there is no fruit that comes out of it. Not saying you become instantly perfect once you are saved. I think that is exactly what Paul is saying in Romans 7 about the war that is now inside of him taking over.... I think this kinda goes into who is Jesus and what are you really believing. If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and you truly believe it.... They your actions will follow suit. If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is your best friend surfer dude well you actions will follow suit. Is Jesus truly Lord. Then your actions upon your belief that saves you would follow suit. If you don't have works well then you are not really believing, following or what every else you want to call it. Thats just how I see it. Anyway fascinating topic and I love everyones input. Thanks for challenging my little brain cells :)

She already has had that happen on Facebook....

I can't stop laughing..... you guys crazy.

Apology accepted.... It is hard to see peoples heart through typed characters on a computer screen... I do it all the time :).

Excathedral I think it is very important for everyone to research on there own and come to their own conclusions. I am trying to figure you a few things... some of it can be in my response to Galen Galen.... As I understand that is your experience with people in TWI.... That however is not my own.... When in conversations with people in TWI they speak down to me and tell me that seminary and bible colleges is just a bunch of junk. They also tell me that they are the ONLY ones who read the greek, look at context and so on.... They do not respect my input and roll their eye's if I come with a rebuttal to there "teaching" me in our conversation that stumps them. Every single person who has come to talk to me about Christianity from the Way comes not to have a conversation with me but tries to teach me right off the bat and many times "teaching" me something I already know. For instance "Hey, did you know that the bible doesn't say there were 3 kings" Then to start a lecture on how that is true and that VPW has all the answers. That is my experience. Now my wife tells me not everyone in the way is like that. This is my issue. I was hoping for some type of agreement with my wife from someone who is not with the way any longer as she is on this forum concerning the fellowships. So figured I could get some positive comments that would allow me to feel more comfortable going to a fellowship than going to be ridiculed and disrespected as most people from the way teach me because I don't fall down to the information they tell me that I see as incorrect or that I already know. I understand that I can't go to a fellowship and start a lecture or exegesis on the first chapter of John. Then reciting my ummmm conclusion during the teaching time. That is just disrespectful. I just want to understand why people follow him and to know my wifes background. I don't think I would be welcomed at a fellowship.... I just don't. So I understand if since they believe Jesus isn't God and someone starts believing that he is then that person should step down.... It is just the right thing to do. The way goes beyond that it seems to me. As if you stop being friends because of it. I think Chockfull did an excellent representation of the meaning of the word research. It is invaluable to do it apart from your teachers every person. There should be a respect when you do it yourself even if you come to different conclusions.... I experienced that with my many contacts and dear friends through bible college and now in ministry with other denominations that I work with.... I just don't see it in the way. Lastly my wife would like to go but she is afraid people will start to think that we will be coming back and that would not be the case. We would just be visiting. She knows most of the people around in The Way in our area. Do you think it matters? Would that be wrong of us to go if there is no idea of us staying? I am just asking questions.... Thanks for the help.

I don't know how to take this..... Doing my own independent research apart from what I was taught in school I thought would disqualify me as a wayfer.... Or am I wrong? Did I miss understand the meaning of what you are saying?

I guess a forum topic on knowledge would embark epistemology in regards to knowing and philosophy..... How can we know anything if we live in a world where contradictions are true. In order for something to be true there must be a false. Law of Noncontradiction says that two opposing truths can't both be true at the same time. I agree with this law A can't be non A at the same time. 2+2=4 2 must be two it can't be 3 and the answer must be 4 not 8... For example someone can't say I have only an all red car and someone else say I have only an all green car. There are only a few out comes. I either have one or the other... possibly both colors on the car but their statements would be false,,,,,,,, possibly I have two cars they are both wrong..... Or they are again both wrong and I have an all silver car. If Jesus said He is the only way to the father meaning also there are many ways to the father.... I am speaking in our reality..... We can't trust scripture at all if contradictions are true on this side of heaven or the other. I agree that we as humans may not be able to see the "big picture" we are finite, the grasp of infinity is beyond us and possibly some of our theology is wrong. Our definition of Salvation,,,,,, Grace,,,,, Works ect.... ,may be off a little bit in order to fit everything in order. I do have my view on how it all works. There is a delicate balance like there is between freewill and sovereignty ( I think it weighs more on sovereignty). Some would argue me on that. I do think that we have to be able to know..... be able to trust our own senses..... If we can't then what is the point of it all? Emerson in some ways is the father of postmodern thought of todays rejecting absolute morals and embracing relativism. You can see it in your quote..... Although no one likes it when you take it to its extreme but you must. Just like you see someones true character come out in the extreme circumstances you test the validity of your own assumptions in the extreme. a life with no contradictions is not a "foolish consistency" made by man it is just common since.

What happened to the political forum???? Why is there no chat?

That is hilarious! I am very tempted to put that on Facebook for all of our friends to see.

You left out that I need to tell them about my Jesus statue I have at home. I should also wear a cross on my neck.

If you did that Waysider then you couldn't keep that blindfold over your obedient followers. Rule #1 in being a cult leader is making people think you have all the answers. :)

Well I have had people ask me if I have taken the Foundational class and I usually respond that I went to bible college. Then they give me a weird look as if not knowing how to respond. My wife tells me (in my translation) that people in The Way do not know how to respond to people who have studied biblical hermeneutics and have an understanding of Koine Greek.

ANything I should look out for..... In all of the studies I have been in I like to challenge the one teaching. I encourage it in my own students as well. I just learn better in a dialogue and I just do it out of my own nature. Will I have to keep my mouth shut the hole time? My wife is also afraid if we show up they might think she would be coming back when we definitely wouldn't. She just thinks it might help me understand the way better. I just feel like I ask too many questions.

My wife left The Way before we got married. I have never been to a fellowship or anything really. I just went to a way wedding and an event they did about Jesus birth near Christmas. I have read some of VPWs books and such. With family members still in the way. My wife said I should attend a fellowship to see what it is like. Just to experience it. So I can be more informed on how they operate. What do you think?

It seems to be a little bit doctriny in here...... If I throw out my response to the doctrine presented will I get fined? It seems to be a little bit doctriny in here...... If I throw out my response to the doctrine presented will I get fined? my computer is messing up

Most people I talk to........ never even heard of them.