T-Bone

Have a good one...and congrats on the book!!!

Yes, I understand what you mean Highway, about Oldies' point – which is valid – truth is truth. I have no problem with that. That's not what I'm addressing. There's more to this issue than just truth. What I'm talking about is our response to the truth – which can vary – we believe/obey it, ignore it, reject it, twist it, etc. Our response to the truth is the key to what effect [if any] the truth will have on us. Sinful attitudes, hypocrisy, persistent sinning, etc. can act like an insulating layer – that for all practical purposes renders the heart impervious to truth. I Timothy 4:2 talks about the false teachers with their hypocrisy of lies have their own conscience seared as with a branding iron. In Matthew 15:3-9 NIV Jesus said for the sake of tradition, people nullify the Word of God. Was the truth nullified for everyone? No – only to those who follow the teachings and rules of men. That's why I mentioned in post # 107 Jesus' warnings of the doctrines/hypocrisy of the Pharisees [Matthew 16: 6, 11; Luke 12:1] – because of the nullifying power they have to render the truth ineffective on those who subscribe to such things. Romans 1:18 NIV speaks of men who suppress the truth by their own wickedness. Hebrews 4:2 NASB says the Word does not profit people when it's not united with faith...Point being, their response does not change the truth - but their response does not allow the truth to change them. Oldies touched upon this response aspect in his post # 200: To that I say, good for you!!!...In retrospect – I think the closer one got to vp – like being on Staff or the Corps program – the more one was susceptible to the truth-nullifying effect exuded by his character, by the example he set. After all, if he was teaching us the Word like it hasn't been known for centuries – then it's logical to assume he was also teaching us how to walk the Word like it hasn't been done for centuries. The Corps program was designed to be a cloning process – to turn out a bunch of mini-vps. It's the systematizing of hypocrisy. Here's the expanded literal translation according to usage of the Way Corps motto: "It is written...in one of vp's books."

But many in TWI, saw vp's hypocrisy as the "correct" way to walk the truth: He's our example to follow…He's our father in the Word. Hey, if he can renew his mind to watching porn so that it doesn't even bother him – then it must be available for me to do that. I need to grow spiritually to where I get to that place in my walk! If he can have such a pure mind that he can handle anything – even having sex with a woman other than his wife – then it must be available for me to do that - I can't wait to get to that place in my walk! Hey, he said anything done with the love of God in the renewed mind in manifestation is okay.

Yeah – if it were teachings on how to be a great hypocrite!

Again with that nonsense! So I'll bring my post # 107 here again: Hypocrisy has the power to nullify any truth! Twinky made a valid point about the difference between the occasional sin and persistent sinning. Your reference to Romans 3 addresses the human condition – that we are ALL fallen creatures…Move on to Romans 6, 7 & 8 that speaks of the battle within, our struggles against sinful tendencies, and the choice to be a slave to serve sin or righteousness. It's obvious to some folks the choice ol' vic made. So you want to cut him some slack over personal struggles with sin. Well…wasn't he such a big proponent of the renewed mind? Just renew your mind to overcome a difficulty. What a cop out! I've got no problem cutting him or anyone some slack over personal struggles – let's just be honest about the whole thing – he had no business being the CEO of a supposedly Christian organization – preaching things like the renewed mind is the key to power and you are today where you are because of you're believing…He should have stepped down and sought professional help. And vp-defenders ought to quit whitewashing a miserable excuse of a minister that has brought shame on the name of Jesus Christ. And speaking of being a minister – that's a whole other issue to address in Scripture – ministers are held to a higher standard: I Timothy 1:3-11 NIV 3 As I urged you when I went into Macedonia, stay there in Ephesus so that you may command certain men not to teach false doctrines any longer 4 nor to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies. These promote controversies rather than God's work—which is by faith. 5 The goal of this command is love, which comes from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith. 6 Some have wandered away from these and turned to meaningless talk. 7 They want to be teachers of the law, but they do not know what they are talking about or what they so confidently affirm. 8 We know that the law is good if one uses it properly. 9 We also know that law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious; for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, 10 for adulterers and perverts, for slave traders and liars and perjurers—and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine 11 that conforms to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which he entrusted to me. I Timothy 3:1-7 NIV 1 Here is a trustworthy saying: If anyone sets his heart on being an overseer, he desires a noble task. 2 Now the overseer must be above reproach, the husband of but one wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, 3 not given to drunkenness, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money. 4 He must manage his own family well and see that his children obey him with proper respect. 5 (If anyone does not know how to manage his own family, how can he take care of God's church?) 6 He must not be a recent convert, or he may become conceited and fall under the same judgment as the devil. 7 He must also have a good reputation with outsiders, so that he will not fall into disgrace and into the devil's trap. He was a con man. Is that so hard to understand? You were tricked! Is that such a hard pill to swallow? He wasn't struggling to be the best man of god for our day and time. The only thing he worked hard at was making sure his con game wasn't exposed.

Welcome to Grease Spot, Randy. That's what this website is all about! Grease Spot is all about telling the other side of the story. It's sort of a different twist on TWI's fellowship thing - folks who were [or still are] involved with TWI come together on this website and share their personal experiences, observations and viewpoint of that organization. The BIG difference here is that at this "fellowship" there are no rules or heavy-handed leadership to enforce the rules that homogenize everyone's thinking – under the guise of "being likeminded" – which [in my humble opinion] is part of the TWI-mindset. A Christian biblical research, teaching & fellowship ministry is TWI's official story. The accounts of sexual molestations & moral depravity by top leadership, abuse of power, betrayals of trust, lies, blame-shifting, hypocrisy, etc. that you can read about here on Grease Spot is the other side of the story – the actual underbelly of TWI. Of course everyone's experiences, observations and viewpoint are different. Some were never overtly touched by TWI's underbelly – but now enjoy the freedom to analyze the thought processes, doctrines & practices they subscribed to for years. It's all about sorting out everything [the good and the bad] for healing, understanding and growth.

All the best to ya!

Hope it was a good one!

Ham was speaking figuratively, DMiller. If one gets on board with the wrong teachings one arrives at the wrong conclusions. Plane for La-La Land now departing at the PFAL Gate.

Thank you for your condolences.

While on vacation we spotted a Mr. T Rubber Ducky. The store had some other cute ones [James Brown, Bill Clinton on Sax, a nun] but Mr. T caught our eye, because our son [now 27] was a big A-Team fan as a kid. So, we bought it for him. But before we gave it to him I thought it would be best to take a picture and share the greatness of this bathtub companion with my friends at Grease Spot. Let me warn you – this ducky ain't for pansies. To give you an idea of size I set it next to one of those M & M dudes Bagpipes gave us at the Grease Spot BBQ a couple of years ago. I went to get my camera and when I came back – I found Mr. T had already popped him one in the eye…The quote above the picture is Tonto's idea: I pity the fool that takes a bath with me

Waysider & Socks, I think we could work a little marketing magic on it...Call it The Essential Butt Sock. It would make people think it's something they can't live without...and would also keep it on topic with this thread.

Don't be silly, Waysider - we all have agenda! Mike is male, Dooj is female, Ham is a male squirrel.

Yeah, Jeff – that’s what I was doing in post # 1 – just re-evaluating my experiences and observations. In my opinion, it’s taking a more active role in managing/developing one’s own belief system.

For my impressions, review post # 54... vp took a lot of folks to the cleaners, btw…which is why I said what I did in post # 23 – and don’t put a whole lot of stock in folks claiming to hear from God – which brings me back to my post # 1 – believing vp heard from God was the beginning of the spiritual deception.

Sorry, there I go thinking of myself again.

Well, Jeff – there's one little hitch in my low rider/low risk plan. It makes it a lot easier for folks on a higher horse than mine to knock me off. Maybe I'll stick to walking for awhile.

About to answer my post # 423 ?

Glad to see you have a sense of humor, thanks for confirming my impressions…and thanks for all your jam-packed posts - at least we know what’s essential to your belief system.

Times are changing...I used to pay good money for TWI's self-righteous pontificating…now someone is giving it away for free!

Belated birthday greetings from Tonto & T-Bone

Some more honest feedback and thoughts, for what it's worth…Is it possible that some folks don't show up, or balk like a mule because of something about you. Maybe the tension or disconnect has more to do with the messenger than the message. I know sometimes I can be my own worst enemy – even when I'm passionate about a cause…I'm not trying to pick a fight here – just offering my honest reaction to some of your posts. And like I've said before – this is just me – I could be wrong…but…sometimes you come across as a know-it-all or a spiritual snob…that's just my impression anyway… Our personality that comes across on a website is, at best, a meager representation of what we're really like in person…What would the folks of your congregation think of your comments here about them? Would some be surprised…offended? Or say "Yup, that sounds like you." I don't have a beef with you doctrinally or personally…just thought my feedback may help you get your message out. Love & peace T-Bone

What you have described is the subtle mind game that TWI pulls on followers – they entangle folks by the grand delusion of TWI's agenda being the will of God. Then followers tend to dismiss any reservations, dislikes, misgivings, second thoughts, etc. as bucking the will of God. Oh, if I don't go in the Corps I'll let God down. God, I really don't want to be sent to Washington DC, but if that's your will. Well God, it's getting about time for Corps Week and the Rock of Ages – I'll have to quit my job again…hmmmm…wish I had a job that would give me a couple of weeks vacation…this gets really old…..alright, I'll quit my whining and trust you.

I can understand a genuine minister's concern for their church and promoting Bible study. But experience has proved many a Scripture to be true – like knowledge puffs up. In TWI, Bible-knowledge ruled! Funny, how vp could impress a crowd with his knowledge of Ephesians – the Greek words, the figures of speech, the cross-references – yet it seems love your neighbor as yourself didn't impress him much when it came to molesting women. If I were a minister, how I would "raise the bar" is by asking folks [myself included, of course] what are you doing with what you know? I now view Bible study as a means to an end [connecting with God and honoring Him with what I do] rather than an end in itself [becoming a Bible know-it-all].

In my humble opinion, I think the Bible set a higher standard of criteria for judging someone's teachings. A biblical viewpoint takes in the words AND works of the person: As in Matthew 5:19 [Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven]. And by the bad example one sets – how they "follow" the Scriptures – acts like an active ingredient to poison their teaching – to render it a doctrine of hypocrisy – see Matthew 16:12 and Luke 12:1. Only in the twisted Wierwille-centric logic can a sexual predator quote unto the pure all things are pure while he's molesting a woman…Let's see now, his sin of molesting her doesn't make his teaching wrong? What about how he's teaching her to apply that verse?....How does this scene stack up to the words of Jesus in Matthew 5:19? Let's try a couple more on for size, shall we? I've so renewed my mind that __ __ [fill in the blank with the sin of your choice] doesn't bother me. ..... If you're spiritually mature you can handle __ __ [fill in the blank with the sin of your choice].