T-Bone

Wow! Amen to that, Lindy Hopper!...Man, if you wrote a book about stuff like that, the Library of Congress just might classify it in the God-breathed category.

That sounds great, Paw! We use Amazon. You've got my vote.

Great poem Not In Kansas Anymore! Paw, thanks for all your hard work to make a place like Grease Spot Café. Besides meeting some great people like you, it has helped me to sort out so many things and put stuff in perspective.

Ya know…just when this thread starts to bore me – a post or two will remind me of specific vp drivel – and when I find it - I just enjoy a big ol' laugh over spotting another one of his tricks. Case in point - from PFAL, Chapter Eleven, The Translations of the Word of God, page 128: "…Since we have no originals and the oldest manuscripts that we have date back to the fifth century A.D., how can we get back to the authentic prophecy which was given when holy men of God spoke? To get the Word of God out of any translation or out of any version, we have to compare one word with another word and one verse with another verse. We have to study the context of all the verses. If it is the Word of God, then it cannot have a contradiction for God cannot contradict Himself. Error has to be either in the translation or in one's own understanding. When we get back to that original, God-breathed Word – which I am confident we can – then once again we will be able to say with all the authority of the prophets of old, "Thus saith the Lord."… [page 142 of the same chapter] "…In this study on Power for Abundant Living in which we are interested in the accuracy and integrity of God's Word, we must get back to that original Word which was given when holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit. We must strip off the translators' theologies which have come about with man-made devices and once more discover the perfect God-breathed Word." End of excerpts Uh huh …I don't believe I actually fell for this nonsense. I ought to start another thread on The Nonsense vp Used to Deceive & Mislead Others…If you're wondering where I got the idea for that title – I looked up the word "bu11$hi+" in Merriam-Webster's Collegiate Dictionary, Eleventh Edition.

getting a little bored with your convoluted jargon...cut to the chase...just talk normal.

So what are you saying? Jesus had to wait for vp to come on the scene? Oh boy, concentric circles of the essential vp!

The following is a public service announcement.

Oh, I see – you're playing vp's find-the-pea-under-the-shell game…vp invented that little game so as to exert control over the interpretation of the Bible. Works really well on folks who assumed vp was THE ultimate authority on the Bible…What a bunch of double-talking nonsense….Oh yeah, right, I'm gonna believe vp on anything he said about the "God-breathed" Word or translations – an idiot who made up definitions and twisted logic to prove his point – who lied about taking classes from Moody Correspondence School!....Go assert your nonsense somewhere else, jack – it ain't flying here!

The Holy Bible, New International Version, Zondervan NIV Compact Reference Library of Congress Catalog Card Number 73-174297

Just because the "teacher" in PFAL said he had the correct answers doesn't make it so. And one doesn't need the mentality of a ninth grade cheater to figure that out – just living in the real world…alas, one man's idol is another man's zero.

Amazing how threads start repeating themselves…Guess I'll bring my post # 846 back up here – where I handled vp's ingenious way of re-defining plagiarism: So what does all this have to do with forgiveness? Are you suggesting we forgive a pathological liar? Well, ya know...maybe it's okay that vp lied about his education, stole other folks' material, twisted Scripture to justify sin and manipulate people and dubbed it "God-breathed", made up a story about God talking to him, SUCKED-like-a-Vampire-on-steroids the time, money, energy, commitment, even the very life out of good honest folks, sexually molested women, and was drunk half the time - oh wait! What's this? It's April Fool's Day! You were just kidding about forgiving vp, right?....Why is it so hard to come to grips with reality? Are you afraid it will bruise your ego?....Let's not sugar coat it. I'll tell you what went wrong – folks believed the bu11$hi+ of a pathological liar. Wanna know how to fix it? Flush the bu11$hi+ down the toilet! And if you're worried about the collaterals clogging the toilet – burn 'em on Uncle Harry Day.

Mike, perhaps I see God as a lot bigger than your impotent version. God not only communicated His message by and to fallen creatures – but He oversees His message, enlightening every hungry soul who searches the Scriptures. That's the biblical model. God crafted such a superb "program" and with infinite resources at His disposal - that He didn't need to re-write the Bible or authorize a deluded liar to interpret it for us! But I guess many of us in TWI were tricked into thinking God was so inept that He had to depend on a parasitic jerk - who re-defined plagiarism as getting revelation and hijacks the Jesus movement for a following. Sadly, some folks are still entangled in that deception. And that makes me think of how God also safeguarded His Word by warnings throughout the Bible of false prophets, false teachers, wolves, etc., and criteria for how to spot them - - news flash: vp fits right in with the biblical model of a deceiver.

I think the only thing behind vp's claim was his own deluded ego. But he was a fairly good con man to pull off this deception – which is why I'm thankful for a website like Grease Spot – where we have a rollicking good time unraveling his scam! And from my Christian point of view – I tend to think anyone who believes that the Bible is indeed the very Word of God – would be appalled at some plagiarizing egotistical sexual predator who was drunk half the time - claiming that his stuff is "God-breathed" – a unique designation that Scripture ascribes only to itself. What audacity he had! What arrogance! What a deluded liar!

Ham - the way it hits me is that vp actually elevates his stuff above Calvin, Luther, etc. He suggests his own stuff as being partly God-breathed [not specifying which parts]....but for everyone else he uses a negative: NOT Calvin, NOR Luther, etc.

Sorry, I don't think that helps – cuz vp's idea of enlightenment was only what he said about the Bible. If you didn't believe what vp said about the Bible then you were causing division! vp represented his own doctrines as being on par with Scripture! That's what I showed in post # 1057:

Interesting point discussed in these posts: You know, vp did claim his stuff was God-breathed. PFAL, Page 83, Chapter Six That Man May Be Perfect: "…The Bible was written so that you as a believer need not be blown about by every wind of doctrine or theory or ideology. This Word of God does not change. Men change, ideologies change, opinions change; but this Word of God lives and abides forever. It endures, it stands. Let's see this from John 5:39. "Search the scriptures…." It does not say search Shakespeare or Kant or Plato or Aristotle or V.P. Wierwille's writings or the writings of a denomination. No, it says, "Search the scriptures…" because all Scripture is God-breathed. Not all that Wierwille writes will necessarily be God-breathed; not what Calvin said, nor Luther, nor Wesley, nor Graham, nor Roberts; but the Scriptures – they are God-breathed…" End of excerpt There it sits…like a duck…Not all [without exception/with or without distinction ] that vp wrote will necessarily be [or not to be ] God-breathed….that is the challenge before us, class. Can you rightly divide Wierwille? Johnny Jump-Up over here says "I think what Wierwille said on this verse is definitely God-breathed" and Henry Baloko over there says "Nope! That's not God-breathed what Wierwille said there – but what he said about the law of believing – now, I think that's God-breathed!"….Dah, dah, dah…what do you have – but a bunch of private interpretation. Wierwille's stuff is either all [without exception/with or without distinction/inside job or an outside job/within you or without you ] God-breathed or none of it is…Well, that about wraps up this session. Your assignment for tonight is to read the first couple of chapters of the Blue Book VP Tells Me So.

Which reminds me of a deleted scene.... Nurse Ratched, Nurse Ratched! The Chief voted! Now will you please turn on the television set? And don't go slipping in one of those PFAL tapes again!

See, even back then your contribution to the music industry was uplifting.

Tut tut…no need to be so formal here…just call me Mister. Perhaps if you practice what you preach you may actually have something of merit to contribute to this thread…In other words, instead of regurgitating the words of a deluded idiot [which amounts to nothing more than reveling in the mindless absorption of his drivel] – apply some critical thinking to his stuff and you may come up with something intellectually engaging.

Yup – I was – when your posts weren’t Wierwille-centric.

I don't think a review is necessary – since the mainstay of your position is still a belief that vp acted under God's direction…And I tend to think your side of a discussion about a "relationship with Christ" and vp's doctrine would lend support to my "thesis." Didn't you say when Jesus Christ comes back He's going to have a PFAL book in His hand?

Even though I'm a Trinitarian and a cessationist – I don't take offense nor care to argue over your opinion of certain doctrines. But since you brought up "fatal error" issues I'd like to point out an obvious and overarching fatal error: assuming vp's plagiarism, Scripture twisting, and re-defining words [exemplified by one of vp's "disciples" in post # 1011] was under God's direction. Speaking of fatal errors that cripple – I don't believe there's a more intellectually debilitating mindset than one that has a deluded liar as the crux of their belief system. For an interesting discussion about this, see the thread vp was essential to a follower's belief system: http://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/index.php?s=&showtopic=16793&view=findpost&p=402191

I think the most intriguing aspect of shape-shifting is whether or not the transformation is voluntary. Judging by their visage – these two look like they’re in total control, for sure!

Believe it or not Oldies, I'm beginning to understand where you may be coming from…or maybe not…so here goes…I think your "in-again-out-again" status with TWI may have actually "insulated" you from getting a sense of what TWI was really like. And if you did not feel the dominating mental snare personally – you have NO idea what it's really all about – or how powerful it is...how it overshadows personal preferences, decision-making, even common sense. It may sound simple – but I think the degree of psychological impact experienced by a TWI follower depended on their level of commitment to the organization. I think this mental enslavement is somewhat different from the mindset absorbed by typical followers. For one thing, I believe it's easier to spot via self-awareness – as we dive inward – those once subtle motivating factors they used begin to stand out like sore thumbs against the wall of our true selves. We begin to realize what drives us - isn't even us! So it may be for some folks who were never Corps, when they hear the stories or expressions of heartaches – they just scratch their heads and wonder "What the heck is wrong with those folks? Obviously their faith wasn't strong enough, or their personal fellowship with God was shallow." This line of thinking is unaware of - or ignores TWI's ingenious trick – assume TWI's agenda is God's agenda…and so, for all practical purposes, assume you're working for the kingdom of God. I mentioned this in post # 130, in response to why Corps would continue to do some things they didn't like. You can get people to do a lot of things against their better judgment through the fine art of manipulation, deception, and intimidation with its vast array of coercive techniques: Religious passion is a powerful force. TWI took advantage of that - yeah, ol' vp figured out how to harness that power...he got people to hitch their wagons onto his grand delusion - We're the only ones working for the one true God! Dat's riiiiiiight! He told me so...audibly!!!! The psychological entanglement wrought ever so subtly on followers will ratchet-up as one "ascends" the hierarchy of TWI. Sure, there was peer pressure. But that only reinforced the mindset drummed into "the truly committed ones" – on Corps Night, in Corps meetings, in the atmosphere of household public opinion…I bet just about any "significant" teaching to fall on the ears of those "dedicated to a lifetime of Christian service" were peppered with those "lovely ties that bind" – ideas that drive the barbed hooks deeper into the heart: Where else are you going to go? To walk out on God's ministry is to plunge into oblivion. Who else is rightly dividing the Word? Remember who taught you the Word. You're to be especially good to the household.

Mit diesem Korps-Ring werde ich uber die Leute herrschen... Der ganze Hagel-Arzt Wierwille Literal translation according to usage: With this Corps ring I will rule the people...All hail Doctor Wierwille