Twinky

He probably means, "...in TWI, and then out, one experiences ..." Not everyone uses commas appropriately, nor proofreads, before hitting the Submit Reply button.

Woh, that's a warning to us all. To every member of every congregation. Can't remember ever reading that before. A great warning against selfishness and self-interest ("the sleek and the strong") ahead of sharing nicely with others. And it applies not just to the church, but to every other person in this "pasture" of the world. Are some nations so rich and selfish that they shove other poorer nations aside? I'll just leave that thought with you. If I say too much, it'll get stripped as being political. As if Jesus were not political, hey?

Like it or not, he knew what he was doing when he assaulted women. When he messed with other men's wives. Even the most thick among us know that messing around with other people's spouses isn't a good look (as it were). His incandescent, vitriolic rants and rages were beyond imagining. Lunchtime "sharings" could last 1.5 hrs and he raged against everyone and everything. Very scary. (For you older people here, be glad you didn't endure them.) He was manipulative, sweet one moment and foulmouthed the next (perhaps learned from VPW, but he certainly "made that his own.") I had never sworn before, but came out of TWI with a marked ability to use language that most people find unacceptable (still working on getting rid of that). Corps Nights were more ranting and raving and foulmouthedness, with lurid descriptions of (in particular) alleged homosexual act. I have to agree with Bolshy One on this. I never knew VPW, had recently died before I got involved. What I'd seen of him in the PFAL videos wasn't impressive, and I was aware of numerous errors he made. But it was still, despite errors, holding out the bible in more depth than I'd encountered before. What I knew of TWI was this thick, ugly, man who thought he was God's gift to the world. The SNS tapes, to begin with, were okay. I went in rez and met him and his "teachings" in person. I am amazed, now, that I stayed around at all. But I never saw that side before I went in rez. And it had cost me a lot in non-monetary terms, to go in rez. Yeah, he taught things. Mostly, what Christian service is not. I can agree with WW that LCM is a victim too: sought out and groomed by VPW, who by his behaviour demonstrated "what it was not." How to be a bad leader, how to bully and scare people. There must have been that within LCM to enable that to develop to the level it did: perhaps the college jock desire for adulation. Wherever he is in life now, I hope he's repented of his nastiness, his behaviour to others, and has learned to lie peaceably and politely with other people. Has he learned humility? Service? Integrity? He has devastated many lives (mine included). An open apology to all those he hurt, males and females, would be nice, but I'm not holding my breath for that. I forgive him and don 't wish him any ill - but I don't forget what he has done to so many.

Look like she's now on the board of directors. So he's probably still hanging around at HQ doing ... well, if he's lucky, something that actually does need doing.

Christianity was once a cult of Jewishness, too. Jesus, however, never intended to start a new religion, but to turn people back to God. Some say that Christianity is a cult started by Paul/Saul. Good post, T-Bone. When the rules of the organisation itself become more important than the (real) rules of God, then there's a problem.

Corn and sauerkraut. Yummy. Hey, how about an omelette? Or fried chicken? Or ... (wait for it) ... caaaake!!!!!

Ah, got it. A cheese and ham pasty. Right. Is there anything else on the menu in this Cafe?

What's calzone?

Wah, those parting gifts, thank you gifts, and whatever. Give, give, give. Give your money, give your time. On reflection, I think I did go there. Early on, maybe my first few weeks in-rez, a large chunk of my in-rez corps went to empty and clean out a place prior to its sale and auctioning of contents. We went there with Jacque Horney. It was busy, hard work, and filthy with dirt and neglect and lots of spider webs, but actually it was a very enjoyable and relaxed time. Jacque was quite good fun. Even then, it was nice to be away from the strictness of HQ. I could see it had once been a beautiful place, but outside was beginning to look very tatty from lack of care and attention, and inside was scruffy and looked to be falling apart from damp in places. Not much time to explore or get a feel for what was there. I remember doing some work in the library. Gail had come from HQ to select any books she wanted back in Ohio. I must have been helping her by marking said books, or similar. She estimated the number of books in the library there as xxx thousand. When the books were all counted and boxed up into non-Ohio disposals and Ohio retention books, her estimate was very accurate. Impressive.

Yes, the boundaries got pushed and shoved all over the place. I recall from PFAL (and I've rarely heard anyone here discuss it) a bit about moving boundaries. Deut 27:17 ‘Cursed is he who moves his neighbor’s boundary mark.’ And all the people shall say, ‘Amen.’ (NASB) And yet, that is precisely what PFAL and all other TWI materials proceeded to do. They removed the boundary marks in our minds - for some, perhaps a good thing but for many others, a very, very bad thing - the boundaries of common decency, honesty, integrity, physical contact, sexual contact, and moving through other aspects of self-preservation. Everything. It started before PFAL, actually; the first twig probably saw everyone getting hugs and maybe kisses, regardless of whether or not the newbie liked being hugged by strangers. It wasn't "loving encouragement" to grow and "be enlarged" by moving our own boundaries. No, in some cases it was a full-scale assault on decent, appropriately established boundaries. My boundaries got very blurred, very confused. I think they are back now in the places where I'm comfortable with them being. It took years, like Rocky, like most of us. God CURSES them, for moving boundaries. God is not the author of confusion.

Here's the same, but without the interjecting woman's comments (who does she think she is, it's not her story!)

Proverbs 2:6 New International Version For the Lord gives wisdom; from his mouth come knowledge and understanding. Maybe TWI has run out of other ways to make "the Word" incomprehensible?

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Let's not go that way, OldSkool. No policy regarding covid on their website, unless they have one well hidden. But you know what? We're all outa there, and what they think doesn't matter to anyone here. Unless you want to know, so that you can take the opposite view. Yeah, right.

Never went there; looks a seriously ugly place. And unkempt now, though doubtless it was immaculate when TWI owned it. Thanks for sharing.

By all means, drink mullein tea in reasonable (not excessive) quantities. I doubt it's effective against covid. Do get a vaccine as well. As for that daft bunch in Ohio: do they want to "believe God" to keep them safe? I think they'd recommend a vaccine course. And I'm certain the head honchos would get vaccinated. But either way: I just don't care what they say, think or do. Their opinion on anything is completely irrelevant to me.

D'yall want me to start a thread on this?

Oh, and while I was leading this team, the overall coordinator visited the team, spent time with each family, and then spent time with me to discuss team activities etc. He used to stay with my family to begin with, but later rented a nearby motel room. Asked me to visit him there, as my household was so busy. He did this two or three times. It seems he was after a different sort of teamwork, the sort that needs only two people and a bed. Tough. Unlucky in that.

I can't imagine how awful and completely bewildering that was for you all. I hope you all didn't get blamed for your lack of believing, that left him vulnerable.

Thanks, T-Bone. That "Corps Nazi" wasn't "me" at all, I've never been that sort of person. Not the way I was brought up; not the way I ever was before. Which shows you how badly bullied I was in WC training, that I should turn out like that. How my head had been screwed around with. Thankfully, I'm now with a truly outstanding, caring, church that really reaches out to the poorer part of our community. There's a strong, loving Christian presence in this city, and there are truly awesome people to look up to. I look on that WoW year and how I handled some aspects of it as my "What Not To Do" manual. And I have so much more compassion now than I had before going in the WC. We did see some awesome things, though, in that year. We saw deliverance in many people's lives (and in our own). Our twig was thriving, and people stuck around - one was so enthusiastic that we could hardly get him to leave our house (he was one of the two who went WoW the next year). We prayed, and lots of things came to pass. Once, one of our twig members went missing for some weeks. No idea where he was or why not responding. In a city of 1 million, we thought a bit, narrowed it down to a likely area, then went there as a WoW family, walked up some random street, knocked on the first door, and there he was. Bit like Acts 9:11.

Your daughter is a freak of nature to precisely the same extent that all of us are. And just like the rest of us, she is fearfully and wonderfully made. Made a little differently, perhaps, but still wonderfully. She's probably kind, loving, compassionate, and is clearly able to give joy to you, Tonto and many others. Which is unlike that aberration of nature, LCM, whose ability to be all those things is sadly impaired, and who left a trail of destruction rippling through many people's lives. T-Bone, have you read works by Henri Nouwen, in particular "Adam: Life of the Beloved"?

I can only say that I led a WOW team, we set goals at the beginning (I had to scale back on what some of my team wanted, they were so enthusiastic) we worked really hard and in fact I drove the team hard. Because in Corps training I had myself been driven really hard and had somehow lost my kindness and compassion. We had some good times, very good times, during the WoW year; we ran a couple of classes, and a couple of lads to whom we'd witnessed went out WOW the following year. Some amazing things, miraculous things, happened at various times. As a WoW family, we were successful. The other family in the team, led by my Corps bro, totally unsuccessful. But I made it unnecessarily hard for some in particular of my family, despite that I dearly loved them. I knowingly set a wrong example on many occasions (even a couple of times is too many). I wasn't the example of Jesus Christ that I should have been; I was the example of VPW and LCM and their thuggishness. Yes, I was the Corps Nazi that you all hated. Confession time: I made it hard for my WOW family and for my team (we were two families). If I could find any of them, I would most abjectly and humbly beg their forgiveness for giving them such a hard time. I am very sorry. I pray their hurt has healed.

I've felt inclined, at several points during this thread, to ask: "What do you think God is?" (note, that's a What, not a Who). It's not really the subject of this thread, so if you have any thoughts, just hold them for the time being.

Maybe in heaven - we'll all be autistic. Maybe "neuro-typicals" are in fact the oddities in the long scheme of things? Maybe that's why neuro-typicals make such a mess of things, are disobedient, and don't follow clear rules; whereas autistic people take things more literally and don't argue with themselves and their imaginations all the time?

Okay, you guys have considered whether an atheist can truly become a (Christian) believer, or vice versa. Now what of the (let's say) atheist, who converts to Christianity, then reconverts to (let's say) Islam. Or Buddhism. Or some Indian religion requiring worship of multiple gods. Has that person changed his/her mind? Had a true conversion experience? Still exploring, but never been truly convinced of anything?