Twinky

Mike, what have you learned from your last few years? What specifically have you learned from PFAL that you didn't learn from the Bible itself? It's good that you're hanging out with other people. How loving, kind, patient, and giving, are these people you hang out with now? Apart from the Deadheads, are you hanging out with any genuine, practising, Christians, from churches and other organisations in your area? How do you see Christ working out in their lives? What do they do that exemplifies Christ to the wider population (rather than debating)? I have a hard time seeing Jack Nicholson as Jesus. He loves playing nutters, weirdos, crazies. True, not so much in Cuckoo's Nest, where he's the sane character among nutters, but he's still weird. If I see his name on a movie cast list, that's one movie I won't be watching. And you might remember, in Cuckoo, Nurse Ratched (whom no doubt you would correspondingly see as the devil) wins. She overcomes, and gets the Nicholson character lobotomised. There's no "resurrection"-type scene, no recovery, for the Nicholson character.

Hello Mike. I've kinda missed you round here. Could always rely on you to make a point that would stir up Cafe denizens. Was wondering what had happened to you. You went away to study PFAL more deeply, I think. Well, no desire from me to study PFAL. Oh, I wish you could read it in the original! Maybe try deep-reading the two principal books that VPW plagiarised? I doubt TWI is really "moving back to the original PFAL class." Far too dated.

Be strong, Annio. Enjoy your new church, check out its safeguarding policy, and be bold to speak out if you see something that's dodgy.

Bizarre, T-Bone.

You still have your WC mug, T-Bone? And the PFAL book?? And a green card??? What are you - a cult-head??

I don't know about symbols, but the slogan The Word of God is The Will of God makes me want to run away fast. Can't stand it. I am not sure that even now I can cope with the Bible being called "The Word o God." Parts of it are clearly not the will of God, and some parts have been added in - and some omitted from some versions. The expression "the Corps" also got me running away. It's been hard to overcome - especially since my mum has now joined the Salvation Army and its officers and more dedicated followers are known as the Corps. (Happily, they do seem a dedicated-to-the-Lord lot, and do a lot of good work in the community. Totally different from that other "corps.") Lots of other symbols too. And buzz words. There's a whole thread here somewhere concerning that.

What a gruesome report. I feel sorry for these poor beguiled people. I pray they'll come to their senses, and that this wretched abusive "minister" is quickly made to face justice for her behaviour.

It's easy to look from across the pond and think how bizarre all this Q stuff is. Very hard for people who have "lost" relatives to this online cultish thing. Just as it was hard for our relatives when we disappeared into TWI. Hopefully there will be post-Q help sites set up by escapees.

Yet another all too familiar story. Sad. I hope that the people she names (esp PB) don't take it upon themselves to sue her for libel. Or set TWI's lawyers onto her, to gag her.

Would be good if they can keep their own organisation clean. The UK branch of Zacharias's organisation has already distanced itself and has adopted a new name. However, I think there will always be predators - this abusive culture isn't new, and has been going on centuries (millennia?) and will continue for more centuries. I follow with suspicion a cult in a remote South Island of New Zealand area, and rejoice every time there is a family that escapes. It's in many ways like the communal culture of TWI, mixed with forced "kibbutz" type living. The people choose to live there - but it's a choice with no alternatives. They've little idea of life outside their cult. And yes, there is sexual abuse as well as spiritual abuse.

I read about him in the Church Times (an Anglican newspaper) some weeks ago. sad. Same sh1t, different faces. I'll check out the video later.

That's outrageous, JCS. First, even taking a little money for ice creams - then taking more for private use for a car radio - on the field, people weren't allowed to dip into the ABS even to provide refreshments for the PFAL class, not that milk, coffee and a little cake or cookies cost a lot. Your mother sounds like she not only drank the kool-aid but wallowed in it too. I pray her head is in a better place now.

Oh, tell more! When/what year was this? (Do you mean, adulterous? Nearly everyone, unfortunately, was adulatory)

Some misguided soul in Belize seems to have put this together. Must have taken some work. Pity the author didn't spend that amount of time doing something useful - personal Bible study, for example. Or reading this website.

"All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others" (George Orwell, Animal Farm)

Love this, T-Bone

Welcome, Grace and Truth. Thank you for sharing your journey in such an articulate post. Many of us still here can relate to what you said. It wouldn't have made any difference to them; all it would have done is hastened your exit. You'd've invited more "reproof" and ultimately likely would have been marked and avoided. Many did confront what they saw, and got kicked out. Some are still trying to do that: witness the Revival and Restoration band, of quite a lot of The Bigs; totally ignored by TWI. Usually after being kicked out, and when you have no opportunity to respond, you'd've been badly slandered, called "possessed," and generally vilified. That's a "treat" that you avoided and don't need to know about. Sit down and join us for a while. Have a cup of coffee. Waysider will probably offer you a beer.

I wondered if anyone apart from ex-Wayfers ever talked about "the red thread." Or whether it was only ex-Wayfers (usually pushing their own wannabe ministries) that got excited about the idea. Several of the sites I looked at that described red thread are clearly ex-Wayfers; the Jesus descriptions are the same, and the wording of any supporting paragraph is the same old jargon - even though many don't give any names in the About Us section of their websites. It was something that was relevant to my housegroup discussions on Wednesday evening. They were very interested when I asked if anyone had heard of the red thread and wanted to know more. But the last thing I want to do is push TWI type doctrine on this lovely group of people.

Yes, Jesus in every book. In researching whether anybody else thinks this apart from Wayfers, I came across something that looked quite interesting - but then I discovered it was the exact list, with scripture references - produced by an ex-Wayfer in his own mini-ministry. The Oral Roberts version gives different "identities" (also with verses) and there are references on other sites. It leads to the consideration of how legit those sites are - who produces the materials thereon, what's their basis, background, theological position? (I'm getting cynical and suspicious in my old age!)

It was that "Fourth man thingy, but OR used different descriptors. So where the heck did VPW get his descriptors? Surely ... did he read and study his Bible?

I found my Red Thread long-sleeve T shirt recently. I don't plan on ever wearing it again. But I was interested to consider where the supposed "red thread" came from. It's still an idea propagated by ex-Wayfers. I listened to some of the OR tape. He lists his "fourth man" in every book of the bible, but giving different "descriptors" of who or what the red thread is. So did VPW invent these "descriptors" (for want of a better word)? Because clearly they aren't Roberts's descriptions. It's something that came up in my church housegroup this evening. Nobody else has heard of any "red threads" and it was a novel concept to them. But I don't want to be spouting off about something that's essential Wayfer doctrine. Happy to share if it's somebody else's idea. Further thoughts, anyone?

The whole SP thing was yet another scam. SPs were supposed to provide for your funding and everything else. It was "godly" to support people through their Corps training. And some people who could better have used the money to support their families did help sponsor in-rez corps through the training indoctrination. A lot of money was paid for the training, which included of course the accommodation (free to TWI, they owned the land and buildings) and food (at minimal cost, since they grew quite a bit of it). But the cost for the training... it wasn't training. Your mother shouldn't have touched money that was your compensation. It should have been held in trust for you with two trustees (she'd be one). Maybe you could sue your mom to try and get the money back, if she has any assets, but that'd trash forever any relationship you have. I suppose what you really want is an acknowledgement and a sincere apology. Whether you ever get that will depend on how deeply indoctrinated she remains, after all this time.

It's true. I completely lost sight of Jesus in my Way years. Big concept of God, and who God is. Lost concept of Jesus, and who he is. TWAP. Haha. That's funny, so close to ... a word that might get changed if I write it. T at the end. The Way of Abasement and Powerlessness. That'll do.

VPW said it. That settles it. I don't believe it.

LOL, Allan.